By FortuneFaded Go To PostIt is going to be interesting seeing if people will agree with Joel’s decision. I do feel it is different when you have been in the character’s shoes while playing the game and you are the one doing the action.
Kathleen foreshadowed the conflict in Her monologue. Something along the lines of “children die all the time, your brother is not special.”
When you love someone they are though. Hence the conflict.
I always understood what was moral but sympathized with Joel because I would likely act as he does had Ellie been my daughter or wife or sister or something like that.
I think most people will feel the same. You gotta like Joel or season 2 won’t work well
I am more than happy with the lack of infected in the show. Apart from the clicker scene in the museum, they have been extremely boring or really quite shit (the end of Henry/Sam's two-parter).
Not seen the latest episode yet, gonna get on it tonight I think.
Not seen the latest episode yet, gonna get on it tonight I think.
I feel the same way. The overabundance of infected making the show feeling like yet another zombie production was my main concern going into the season. The themes it explores are largely familiar as is, I don't need zombie hordes bringing it closer to The Walking Dead or what have you.
I'm not against adding tension by the way of infected, but it has to be done right. Museum scene was great, episode 5 finale meh.
I think part of it is that I find your run-of-the-mill zombies an outlived and frankly stupid trope. The further away from traditional walkers they get with creature designs, the more I'm willing to suspend my disbelief. That's why even clickers, which aren't that different, work much better.
I'm not against adding tension by the way of infected, but it has to be done right. Museum scene was great, episode 5 finale meh.
I think part of it is that I find your run-of-the-mill zombies an outlived and frankly stupid trope. The further away from traditional walkers they get with creature designs, the more I'm willing to suspend my disbelief. That's why even clickers, which aren't that different, work much better.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI do not hear either complaint from non gamers. Only gamers. I tend to agree with needing more infected though.Gamers love to protect their medium. Some of them straight up are clutching onto this idea that videogames are a misunderstood medium and shitting on shows like this for no other good reason despite it being equal or better in story telling capacity.
Is next episode the finale? I haven’t played TLOU since it came out. I only remember bits and pieces of the story
By Pho Kew Go To PostIs next episode the finale? I haven’t played TLOU since it came out. I only remember bits and pieces of the story
Yeah, I'd avoid this thread if I were you, I played the games and people dropping spoilers left and right like flex bombs.
By reilo Go To PostGamers love to protect their medium. Some of them straight up are clutching onto this idea that videogames are a misunderstood medium and shitting on shows like this for no other good reason despite it being equal or better in story telling capacity.
It's a better story this way for sure. The problem is the story of the game is just a fairly standard zombie story, so you have to be a lot better when the other elements that makes the games great are taken out.. Like playing it.
Started off pretty strong i thought, but every episode after the guy from parks and recs being gay, has been downhill badly. Not sure how much moving quickly had to do with it, but that sniper scene was bad imo.
Haven't watched the new episode yet though. Hopefully it's better, cause i see Ali Abbasis directed it.
I'm of the opinion that games that tell their story primarily through cutscenes like TLOU does were not really taking advantage of the medium.
I don't feel as strongly about that anymore after watching this show. I don't think it's a bad show(I think all the action has been poor tho). It's decent but pretty much all the big moments so far, I've felt were less effective here than in the video game. I don't think it's due to me experiencing it first either since I'm not even a big fan of the first game's story outside of the ending.
More surprisingly, the show does not look as good as I expected with the reported budget. Especially the lighting/cinematography, it looks way more stagey and fake here than in the TLOU Remake.
I don't feel as strongly about that anymore after watching this show. I don't think it's a bad show(I think all the action has been poor tho). It's decent but pretty much all the big moments so far, I've felt were less effective here than in the video game. I don't think it's due to me experiencing it first either since I'm not even a big fan of the first game's story outside of the ending.
More surprisingly, the show does not look as good as I expected with the reported budget. Especially the lighting/cinematography, it looks way more stagey and fake here than in the TLOU Remake.
Yeah I was about to say the same thing re the reported budget. Other than the big set piece in the first episode and clearly the sets have a lot of CG painted in, where'd it go? Is Pedro just that expensive?
By reilo Go To PostGamers love to protect their medium. Some of them straight up are clutching onto this idea that videogames are a misunderstood medium and shitting on shows like this for no other good reason despite it being equal or better in story telling capacity.
This thread is a case study lol
I agree with literally everyone about everything
But I'm tuning in every week thats more than good enough for me lol
But I'm tuning in every week thats more than good enough for me lol
By Laboured Go To PostYeah I was about to say the same thing re the reported budget. Other than the big set piece in the first episode and clearly the sets have a lot of CG painted in, where'd it go? Is Pedro just that expensive?
Nah, I can see where the money went, if you seen other zombie shows they're always in empty fields or backwoods and warehouses. This show has had multiple city locations which is very expensive ontop of all the other set + cg.
Dismissing any criticism as 'gamers' is pretty weak.
It's worth critiquing an adaptation in reference to the material it's adapting. Non gamers won't have that perspective, obviously. We do.
I like the HBO version. I just don't think it's as good as it could be.
It's worth critiquing an adaptation in reference to the material it's adapting. Non gamers won't have that perspective, obviously. We do.
I like the HBO version. I just don't think it's as good as it could be.
By Andrew Go To PostDismissing any criticism as 'gamers' is pretty weak.
It's worth critiquing an adaptation in reference to the material it's adapting. Non gamers won't have that perspective, obviously. We do.
I like the HBO version. I just don't think it's as good as it could be.
Sure, but it’s totally different than adapting a novel or comic book; adapting a game is completely different given the nature of playing games itself.
No surprise this is going down really well with non-gamers, because it is nailing a lot of the aesthetics, acting, characterisation, etc. What’s missing is the gameplay - the hours you spend with Joel and Ellie, dying and failing and fighting. But that’s a lot harder to adapt.
By n8 dogg Go To PostSure, but it’s totally different than adapting a novel or comic book; adapting a game is completely different given the nature of playing games itself.Undoubtedly this is the case, but I think the criticisms that have been levied are not unreasonable - or only innately possible in another medium.
No surprise this is going down really well with non-gamers, because it is nailing a lot of the aesthetics, acting, characterisation, etc. What’s missing is the gameplay - the hours you spend with Joel and Ellie, dying and failing and fighting. But that’s a lot harder to adapt.
Real talk: I think TLOU distilled down to its story and characters minus everything else and presented in a format with much higher standards (prestige television) does draw a more critical eye.
It’s missing a one shot take of Joel going around evading and killing fools that’s for sure. It doesn’t need that much action just the right amount of violence and visual flair during a tense moment in the story.
It should’ve happened in this last episode. The lack of such a moment also betrays the sources of inspiration for the games, Children of Men and No Country for Old Men. It’s missing that special bit of film making technique.
Such a moment also helps establish Joel as a bit of a hero like character, and that’s actually something that the character needs otherwise the audience won’t ever really see Joel the same way people saw him in the games.
It should’ve happened in this last episode. The lack of such a moment also betrays the sources of inspiration for the games, Children of Men and No Country for Old Men. It’s missing that special bit of film making technique.
Such a moment also helps establish Joel as a bit of a hero like character, and that’s actually something that the character needs otherwise the audience won’t ever really see Joel the same way people saw him in the games.
By Crusher Go To PostIt’s missing a one shot take of Joel going around evading and killing fools that’s for sure. It doesn’t need that much action just the right amount of violence and visual flair during a tense moment in the story.
It should’ve happened in this last episode. Such a moment also helps establish Joel as a bit of a hero like character, and that’s actually something that the character needs otherwise the audience won’t ever really see Joel the same way people saw him in the games.
The general public doesn't need to see that from him, bonding with and keeping Ellie safe is all they needed.
Well but then the character isn’t the same and the reaction to his death will also end up being very different. The show focuses so much on Ellie that the relationship the audience has with Joel is very different from the game.
And I think one of the reasons why TLOU2 is so effective in its story, is that it’s not just Ellie that feels the pain of Joel’s death, it’s the audience too. It’s not a feeling by proxy, we don’t live it vicariously, it happened to us too and it’s a lot more powerful for it.
And I think one of the reasons why TLOU2 is so effective in its story, is that it’s not just Ellie that feels the pain of Joel’s death, it’s the audience too. It’s not a feeling by proxy, we don’t live it vicariously, it happened to us too and it’s a lot more powerful for it.
By Crusher Go To PostWell but then the character isn’t the same and the reaction to his death will also end up being very different. The show focuses so much on Ellie that the relationship the audience has with Joel is very different from the game.
And I think one of the reasons why TLOU2 is so effective in its story, is that it’s not just Ellie that feels the pain of Joel’s death, it’s the audience too. It’s not a feeling by proxy, we don’t live it vicariously, it happened to us too and it’s a lot more powerful for it.
I think Pascal's casting goes a long way to ensuring audience buy in there.
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostThe general public doesn't need to see that from him, bonding with and keeping Ellie safe is all they needed.
Pretty much this.
Joel comforting Ellie the way he did, instead of busting in like a super hero, will do a lot more for selling the audience on what's to come. Every change they have made has, tbh.
I don't think this show works, if it was game Joel. You'd run the risk of having the audience rooting against him, if it was just him being a psychotic murder for 9 episodes straight, like he is in the game.
By EldritchTrapStar Go To PostPretty much this.
Joel comforting Ellie the way he did, instead of busting in like a super hero, will do a lot more for selling the audience on what's to come. Every change they have made has, tbh.
I don't think this show works, if it was game Joel. You'd run the risk of having the audience rooting against him, if it was just him being a psychotic murder for 9 episodes straight, like he is in the game.
But that’s not what I’m saying at all. “Super hero”, “psychotic murder for 9 episodes” don’t translate anything of what I said.
True Detective has an exciting one shot sequence, and it’s not like they turned Rust into John Wick. Again Children of Men and No country for old men were clear inspirations for the style of action and tone in TLOU1, but we haven’t seen anything like that here. The car sequence in the first episode was great.
And as said above I disagree about the audience’s relationship with Joel. It’s not even close at this point in the story, because the show completely shifted focus from Joel to Ellie. It doesn’t mean the relationship between Joel and Ellie isn’t working, it is. And I would argue the audience’s relationship with Ellie is a lot stronger here.
Another thing is the game didn’t come with Left Behind, and even in the remake Left Behind is not integrated into the main story because it takes away from Joel’s pov which at end of the day is the POV that makes the ending work as well as it did. But I digress.
By Crusher Go To PostBut that’s not what I’m saying at all. “Super hero”, “psychotic murder for 9 episodes” don’t translate anything of what I said.
True Detective has an exciting one shot sequence, and it’s not like they turned Rust into John Wick. Again Children of Men and No country for old men were clear inspirations for the style of action and tone in TLOU1, but we haven’t seen anything like that here. The car sequence in the first episode was great.
And as said above I disagree about the audience’s relationship with Joel. It’s not even close at this point in the story, because the show completely shifted focus from Joel to Ellie. It doesn’t mean the relationship between Joel and Ellie isn’t working, it is. And I would argue the audience’s relationship with Ellie is a lot stronger here.
Another thing is the game didn’t come with Left Behind, and even in the remake Left Behind is not integrated into the main story because it takes away from Joel’s pov which at end of the day is the POV that makes the ending work as well as it did. But I digress.
You didn't, but that's exactly what the game does. It also functions as a power fantasy for the player.
Focusing on the show, the reason why I think it works so well, is because while the focus is on Ellie (and really, Joel has been constantly developing, even when it's understated), the show has gone way out of it's way to display Joel being someone that a lot of viewers can relate too: a parent. Something as simple as having him not busting into the burning building, in episode 8, and instead comforting Ellie (outside), is something that any human being, parent or not, will be able to identify with: comforting someone else in a time of need. Using the theme of parenthood, you're not always going to be there when shit goes bad, but you can help pick up the pieces. Same thing with episode 6, with him not being strong enough to take care of her and searching for Tommy's help.
If the games are heavy handed about what type of monster he can be, and they absolutely are, the show took the opposite approach, and only showed a level of violence to stress a point about him, his past, and where his mindset is. That way, it doesn't alienate the audience.
I would have loved a long take, but I was already suspending my disbelief to the verge of breaking, with the wonder antibiotics. If they would have showed him struggling more, then I would have been down for the indulgence. They didn't, even with the shots they had.
For the record, I don't think the game did a good job with the ending and I think it takes a bunch of narrative conceits to get you there. For me it doesn't work, and if you compare it to Children of Men, the reasons are kinda amplified.
Something as simple as having him not busting into the burning building, in episode 8, and instead comforting Ellie (outside), is something that any human being, parent or not, will be able to identify with:But all he did in the game was comfort Ellie as well?. I'm not sure why him busting into the burning building or doing it outside makes a difference? Is it less relatable to the audience if he comforts Ellie inside?
He didn't save Ellie from David in the game either, he arrived in the aftermath after she already killed him and consoled her. I don't follow this point.
I also don't agree that Joel being more violent in the show would alienate audiences either. Just like the general audience laps up sappy shit, they have 0 issue rooting for ultraviolent protagonists. I'm not even arguing for the show to be more violent.
By s y Go To PostBut all he did in the game was comfort Ellie as well?. I'm not sure why him busting into the burning building or doing it outside makes a difference? Is it less relatable to the audience if he comforts Ellie inside?Druckmann and Mazin briefly speak about this after the episode. They mention they feel it better shows the trauma she’s dealing with.
I forget the exact wording but it’s something along those lines
By s y Go To PostBut all he did in the game was comfort Ellie as well?. I'm not sure why him busting into the burning building or doing it outside makes a difference? Is it less relatable to the audience if he comforts Ellie inside?
He didn't save Ellie from David in the game either, he arrived in the aftermath after she already killed him and consoled her. I don't follow this point.
I think it does. The need to leave the area is similar, but without them being in the building you strip away a little bit of the urgency with that scene and can sit on the moment, in a more realistic manner. I think the og is undercut by spectacle. Again, my opinion on the game isn't high. TLOU2 is a very very different story for me.
I also don't agree that Joel being more violent in the show would alienate audiences either. Just like the general audience laps up sappy shit, they have 0 issue rooting for ultraviolent protagonists.
They don't, but it's about context. They either don't have the themes that TLOU has, or the protags are shown to have some sort of tangible human connection to ground them, if that's the point of the story: the good ones are written with more depth. The difference between the mediums is a big part of it, but eh.
By Andrew Go To PostUndoubtedly this is the case, but I think the criticisms that have been levied are not unreasonable - or only innately possible in another medium.
Real talk: I think TLOU distilled down to its story and characters minus everything else and presented in a format with much higher standards (prestige television) does draw a more critical eye.
Sure but like, if I never come across complainants that I see here,
I’m left to assume two things:
A. Had we not played the story we would have less complaints about the series or
B. We’re sharp knees’ing this
Why are you expecting the same type of reaction from an internet forum as Bob Watercooler? Yet alone a community as small as this one? Slaent.com isn't the only place where people are critiquing the massively popular HBO show
They fucking did it. Round of applause. And in addition to Ashley Johnson in the opening, we got Laura Bailey in the hospital room.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostDaddy killing at least 3 on Sunday.Bit of an understatement. Punished Joel.
Fantastic season and oof Joel you dummy at who you killed in the hospital
Really cool Ellie and Abby made a cameo
Really cool Ellie and Abby made a cameo
By friskySHOOKface Go To PostFantastic season and oof Joel you dummy at who you killed in the hospitalAin't no place for doctors that don't abide by do no harm
Really cool Ellie and Abby made a cameo
I'm taking a ride with my best friend
I hope he never lets me down again
He knows where he's taking me
Taking me where I want to be
I'm taking a ride with my best friend
We're flying high
We're watching the world pass us by
Never want to come down
Never want to put my feet back down on the ground
I'm taking a ride with my best friend
I hope he never lets me down again
Promises me I'm as safe as houses
As long as I remember who's wearing the trousers
I hope he never lets me down again
I hope he never lets me down again
He knows where he's taking me
Taking me where I want to be
I'm taking a ride with my best friend
We're flying high
We're watching the world pass us by
Never want to come down
Never want to put my feet back down on the ground
I'm taking a ride with my best friend
I hope he never lets me down again
Promises me I'm as safe as houses
As long as I remember who's wearing the trousers
I hope he never lets me down again
By s y Go To Post
It has less of an impact if you know what's coming. Just didn't work as well, the second time around. Maybe it's the performance, maybe some of the added lines, maybe the direction. Didn't feel it.
Still a solid show though.