By Yurtlicious Go To Postending still not working for meIs there an example of an ending in any media that does work for you?
One wonders how many opposed Melanie Linskey's character during the Kansas City episodes but cheered on what Joel did.
kinda let down by the ending as it was just a straightforward recreation of the game. giraffe to closing scene. ep 3 still the best
very excited for s2 and s3 though because mazin can truly go ham with stellar original shit. lot to work from
I'm onboard until powerdrunkmann inevitably forces Mazin out
very excited for s2 and s3 though because mazin can truly go ham with stellar original shit. lot to work from
I'm onboard until powerdrunkmann inevitably forces Mazin out
Ending didn’t do anything for me because I already played the game. Thought it was a bit rushed, there was no tension at all in the last episode
My wife hates Joel now
Abby redemption tour inbound
My wife hates Joel now
Abby redemption tour inbound
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostSo, season 2 will be around 2025, so I guess the 3rd game would come out around 2026 then.that shit'll be on the ps6
remember when games took 2 years to make
Craig, you’ve talked a lot about how much you love the original game. What was your first interpretation of it when you played it in 2013?man Neil has zero chill. zero
Mazin: I initially wasn't planning on playing it because it was a zombie game. That's what I knew: zombie game.
Druckmann: Actually, the word zombie is banned.
By Not Go To Postthat shit'll be on the ps6
remember when games took 2 years to make
Nah, they gotta put the 3rd game out before the 3rd season, or drag the 2nd game story out so that it's 2 seasons. I don't think the game would sell as well if the show passes the story up, gamers not about to play something where they know everything that happens.
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostNah, they gotta put the 3rd game out before the 3rd season, or drag the 2nd game story out so that it's 2 seasons. I don't think the game would sell as well if the show passes the story up, gamers not about to play something where they know everything that happens.They already confirmed that they will use season 2 and 3 to adapt the 2nd game.
Makes sense since tlou2 is about twice as long as the first game.
By s y Go To PostThey already confirmed that they will use season 2 and 3 to adapt the 2nd game.
Makes sense since tlou2 is about twice as long as the first game.
So 3rd game around or after 3rd season timeline works then. In that case, that game is gonna sell like coke in the 80s.
By Pho Kew Go To PostEnding didn’t do anything for me because I already played the game. Thought it was a bit rushed, there was no tension at all in the last episode
The game's version of the hospital escape is intense because it's different. The fact you rush to the elevator under gunfire to escape with the unconcious body of Ellie in your arms, while All Gone is playing , similarly drowning out the ambient noise, intensifies the dread that Joel might go through the same trauma he already had with Sarah once again. But they were right to change it, because fleeing under gunfire with no one really hunting after Joel wouldn't make any sense. Also: the TV adaptations use of All Gone is a bit more on the nose.
All in all: the changes make sense in terms of believability and you just can't recreate the feeling that gameplay leaves you with.
By Pho Kew Go To PostEnding didn’t do anything for me because I already played the game.Surely that logic would apply to the entire series, not just the ending.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostSurely that logic would apply to the entire series, not just the ending.No? I enjoyed watching the stuff I played happen. I don’t know how else you can translate a video game ending to a television show though, so I thought that was expectedly underwhelming.
I don’t know, giving her the daywalker treatment was big yikes, the catching up on feelings to give people context of what’s coming right next, Joel mowing down people like he was Robocop.
Didn’t hit for me, felt flat. Good season, not what I hoped for but it was good.
Didn’t hit for me, felt flat. Good season, not what I hoped for but it was good.
By Pho Kew Go To PostMy wife hates Joel now
Just because he lied?
By Pho Kew Go To PostMy wife hates Joel nowfirst ep of season 2 is going to be just as divisive as the game. hype
Abby redemption tour inbound
By Crusher Go To PostJust because he lied?No, because he was selfish to put 1 kid over a cure.
Think the finale was my least favorite of all the season so far. That shit was boring and flat as hell.
I’ll stick with it to see how they do the thing in season 2 but after that I’m probably out.
I’ll stick with it to see how they do the thing in season 2 but after that I’m probably out.
You'll get Skylar reactions with Abby in Season 2.
By Pho Kew Go To PostNo, because he was selfish to put 1 kid over a cure.With everything shown, is humanity worth saving at that point?
The finale was cool. I think I like the added context for Marlene.
Bella is gonna kill it, season 2.
Can't wait for the opinions that are gonna surface, about episode 1 or 2.
Bella is gonna kill it, season 2.
Can't wait for the opinions that are gonna surface, about episode 1 or 2.
By NiceGuy Go To PostWonder if the TV audience will be as immature about the idea of someone reaping what they've sownTV audiences might not be as insane as gamers, but just look at how Skylar was received
By EldritchTrapStar Go To PostThe finale was cool. I think I like the added context for Marlene.
Bella is gonna kill it, season 2.
Can't wait for the opinions that are gonna surface, about episode 1 or 2.
All she needs is P90X and some lifts in her shoes.
I dunno why you guys are saying Skylar like people hated her for her character or something, she was a horrible actress and had the most punchable face ever lol.
Producers straight up said zombies are expensive lmao
Producers straight up said zombies are expensive lmao
By Yurtlicious Go To PostI dunno why you guys are saying Skylar like people hated her for her character or something, she was a horrible actress and had the most punchable face ever lol.
Producers straight up said zombies are expensive lmao
What the fuck are you talking about lol, loads of people hated Skyler for the crime of being a woman telling the mighty Heisenberg he was a cunt
I found Skyler to be a necessary but slightly annoying character. The show needed someone to slow Walter down and give him someone to bounce off of for family drama, or it's pacing would have been ridiculous. Presumably the audience was supposed to find her annoying in that way, but a lot of knobends seemed to carry that to the conclusion that she shouldn't have been there at all, and it should have just been Heisenberg running people over for an hour every week.
Finished the show today. Very solid 8/10 for me, Clive. As good an adaptation in most respects as you could wish for, because they nail the two things that are most important: Joel and Ellie. Pascal and Ramsey are excellent, and particularly in Joel’s case are improved from the game because the calibre of performance is improved. They do a very good job of humanising Joel - the conversation with Tommy for instance, or his revelation in the finale - to compensate for the fact that much of the attachment to him in the game is because you play as him, when in reality he’s mostly just a gruff badass hero wish fulfilment avatar. That works when you’re going about shooting things over twenty hours - the changes here are necessary and work a lot better in the context of the adaptation.
There are two real flaws - one fairly minor, one pretty major. The first is the lack of infected, especially post-Kansas. Mazin and Druckmann lean far too much into ‘humans are the real monsters after all’; it’s the perennial threat of clickers that sustains a lot of the tension in the game. Fingers crossed set pieces like the snow horde, the hotel, the car park all stay in later seasons; we need to be reminded more often that they exist as a threat.
The bigger one is the change to Ellie’s back story; this episode makes pretty clear that Ellie is immune because of the circumstances of her birth and that the cure is almost a sure thing. That weakens firstly the random happenstance of Ellie’s immunity making her more unique - if the Fireflies know this is what happened, would you put it past them letting infected bite pregnant women deliberately to make a ‘cure baby’?
More impactful however is the stripping away of the ambiguity. The reason the game’s ending works is despite Joel making that horrifying choice, the possibility exists that the cure would not have worked. Here, it makes it pretty clear it would have. This means it becomes less of a Sophie’s Choice type deal and more of a selfish act. It’s by far weaker than the game because of the lack of ambiguity, and needs Pascal and Ramsey to sell it heavily.
Part II is far more interesting from a story perspective, but also far choppier and meandering. Really interested to see how they do it.
There are two real flaws - one fairly minor, one pretty major. The first is the lack of infected, especially post-Kansas. Mazin and Druckmann lean far too much into ‘humans are the real monsters after all’; it’s the perennial threat of clickers that sustains a lot of the tension in the game. Fingers crossed set pieces like the snow horde, the hotel, the car park all stay in later seasons; we need to be reminded more often that they exist as a threat.
The bigger one is the change to Ellie’s back story; this episode makes pretty clear that Ellie is immune because of the circumstances of her birth and that the cure is almost a sure thing. That weakens firstly the random happenstance of Ellie’s immunity making her more unique - if the Fireflies know this is what happened, would you put it past them letting infected bite pregnant women deliberately to make a ‘cure baby’?
More impactful however is the stripping away of the ambiguity. The reason the game’s ending works is despite Joel making that horrifying choice, the possibility exists that the cure would not have worked. Here, it makes it pretty clear it would have. This means it becomes less of a Sophie’s Choice type deal and more of a selfish act. It’s by far weaker than the game because of the lack of ambiguity, and needs Pascal and Ramsey to sell it heavily.
Part II is far more interesting from a story perspective, but also far choppier and meandering. Really interested to see how they do it.
I'm not sure they're 100% about that being the cause, it's more speculation. Either way, if that's the explanation it sidesteps the genetic "chosen one" trope. Which I like (thx God Craig). It's more about validating an actual hypothesis via the autopsy rather than just taking her apart and hoping for the best
By n8 dogg Go To PostFinished the show today. Very solid 8/10 for me, Clive. As good an adaptation in most respects as you could wish for, because they nail the two things that are most important: Joel and Ellie. Pascal and Ramsey are excellent, and particularly in Joel’s case are improved from the game because the calibre of performance is improved. They do a very good job of humanising Joel - the conversation with Tommy for instance, or his revelation in the finale - to compensate for the fact that much of the attachment to him in the game is because you play as him, when in reality he’s mostly just a gruff badass hero wish fulfilment avatar. That works when you’re going about shooting things over twenty hours - the changes here are necessary and work a lot better in the context of the adaptation.
There are two real flaws - one fairly minor, one pretty major. The first is the lack of infected, especially post-Kansas. Mazin and Druckmann lean far too much into ‘humans are the real monsters after all’; it’s the perennial threat of clickers that sustains a lot of the tension in the game. Fingers crossed set pieces like the snow horde, the hotel, the car park all stay in later seasons; we need to be reminded more often that they exist as a threat.
The bigger one is the change to Ellie’s back story; this episode makes pretty clear that Ellie is immune because of the circumstances of her birth and that the cure is almost a sure thing. That weakens firstly the random happenstance of Ellie’s immunity making her more unique - if the Fireflies know this is what happened, would you put it past them letting infected bite pregnant women deliberately to make a ‘cure baby’?
More impactful however is the stripping away of the ambiguity. The reason the game’s ending works is despite Joel making that horrifying choice, the possibility exists that the cure would not have worked. Here, it makes it pretty clear it would have. This means it becomes less of a Sophie’s Choice type deal and more of a selfish act. It’s by far weaker than the game because of the lack of ambiguity, and needs Pascal and Ramsey to sell it heavily.
Part II is far more interesting from a story perspective, but also far choppier and meandering. Really interested to see how they do it.
Haven't watched the episode yet but this seems to cataclysmically break the point of the first game's ending. Fuck me.
I completely disagree
It makes it work better. There's no guarantee either way and in this scenario there's actually a hypothesis to justify the test rather than throwing shit at the wall. Joel killing strangers so he doesn't lose anybody else is justifiable to HIM in every sense, even if not to the audience. Even if the search for a cure is more likely to be successful in this telling than the hail mary it was in the game
It makes it work better. There's no guarantee either way and in this scenario there's actually a hypothesis to justify the test rather than throwing shit at the wall. Joel killing strangers so he doesn't lose anybody else is justifiable to HIM in every sense, even if not to the audience. Even if the search for a cure is more likely to be successful in this telling than the hail mary it was in the game
The fact that there is only a scant hope of it working because honestly how the fuck else would they really know and really this just reaching for any hope they can cling onto even if it includes killing a kid on a low-chance hail Mary resonates more, imo. Solidifying the meaning behind Joel's gambit makes sense from the point of view of leading into the writing for season 2, but to me the ambiguity is what made the TLOU1 ending.
gotcha. as a standalone story, I can see that uncertainty factor being what joel's action's hinge on and one of the reasons to defend him. but I think it's clear he's a dude who very clearly and easily discriminates as far as who's worthy of life or not. living decades in a zombie apocalypse probably does not an idealist make
I wasn't there for the discourse in 2013 either so
I wasn't there for the discourse in 2013 either so
Yeah bear in mind i've still not played TLOU2 yet (although thankfully I've had a tonne of it spoiled for me here)
Apparently a note exists or something as a collectible in the game that suggests it does work? I dunno.
I think I always read it as: while Joel committing acts of violence is shocking in and of itself, the Fireflies are potentially murdering an innocent girl just for a shot at saving millions. If that becomes more concrete - like I say, maybe it is in the game but not as explicit - then there’s less of a moral dilemma between who is right, and ultimately we fall down on the side of the Fireflies.
Although I must say, the intro to TLOU2 makes it pretty clear than even Joel believed it.
I think I always read it as: while Joel committing acts of violence is shocking in and of itself, the Fireflies are potentially murdering an innocent girl just for a shot at saving millions. If that becomes more concrete - like I say, maybe it is in the game but not as explicit - then there’s less of a moral dilemma between who is right, and ultimately we fall down on the side of the Fireflies.
Although I must say, the intro to TLOU2 makes it pretty clear than even Joel believed it.
If I was the cure I'd let you all die
Fucking find another solution I'm not dying for nobody except my dog
Edit: and Zabo
Fucking find another solution I'm not dying for nobody except my dog
Edit: and Zabo
I thought TLOU1's narrative made it very clear that Ellie dying would have resulted in a successful cure. The narrative never, ever gave any importance to the ambiguity of whether or a not a cure was possible. Most importantly, t was not a factor in Joel's decision. The 1st game completely sidesteps all of that ambiguity in order to achieve its ending(also why the 1st game's narrative is so much weaker than the sequel's imo).
None of the characters question the possibility of a failed vaccine, Ellie is literally being prepped for surgery like 30 minutes after being knocked out, etc. Not sure how many more absurdities they needed to add to make it clear that Dead Ellie = cure. The 2nd game makes it even more clear that's the case.
None of the characters question the possibility of a failed vaccine, Ellie is literally being prepped for surgery like 30 minutes after being knocked out, etc. Not sure how many more absurdities they needed to add to make it clear that Dead Ellie = cure. The 2nd game makes it even more clear that's the case.
The reason the game’s ending works is despite Joel making that horrifying choice, the possibility exists that the cure would not have worked.Completely disagree here.
I don't think they made it clear one way or the other whether they'd have made the cure successfully. Can only judge it on the presented state of their facilities and staff, which leaves it 50/50 I reckon.
Either way, Joel didn't give a shit if it'd work at the time, and that's what matters imo. You have to allow for characters to act on an understandable gut instinct sometimes and judge them on that rather than applying logic after the event.
edit: I haven't seen the show
Either way, Joel didn't give a shit if it'd work at the time, and that's what matters imo. You have to allow for characters to act on an understandable gut instinct sometimes and judge them on that rather than applying logic after the event.
edit: I haven't seen the show
The ambiguity is implicit, you’re in a bum ass hospital twenty years into the apocalypse. The world has gone to shit. It’s also a matter of fact that until something that hasn’t been done is done, you don’t know if it can be done. Suggestions that the cure would work are just that. The fireflies believe it could be done. Joel believes that they might have been able, but he wasn’t going to find out.
You can disagree all you want about that but you can’t be sure the procedure or the cure would work. Does it even matter? It’s just a silly device, much more important is that Joel lied to Ellie.
You can disagree all you want about that but you can’t be sure the procedure or the cure would work. Does it even matter? It’s just a silly device, much more important is that Joel lied to Ellie.
Last two episodes were pretty good, although the hospital shootout felt a bit... weird. Liked what it was going for, but didnt nail it imo.
But still massive improvement from every episode since the gay lads one. Abbasi certified lad.
3/5 show. Too many weak episodes in the middle to be really good.
But still massive improvement from every episode since the gay lads one. Abbasi certified lad.
3/5 show. Too many weak episodes in the middle to be really good.
I remember the game being more clear regarding her chances of success, or the lack of chance. Sy remebers the opposite but it’s been a min for me …. Either way fuck Marlene lol
8/10 …. Needed more inflected. Story lost some impact for me. Almost feel like the adaptation being so close to the source material is why. It’s like rewatching a series. Kinda think that’s a reason we all liked 3 so much. Ended in same place but took different route. Catch 22 I suppose
8/10 …. Needed more inflected. Story lost some impact for me. Almost feel like the adaptation being so close to the source material is why. It’s like rewatching a series. Kinda think that’s a reason we all liked 3 so much. Ended in same place but took different route. Catch 22 I suppose