By Fenderputty Go To PostWell Incase you were wondering how republicans felt about tearing families apartI don't think this is as cut and dry as everybody is making it seem.
By diehard Go To PostI don't think this is as cut and dry as everybody is making it seem.It's not but oh is it dramatic
By diehard Go To PostI don't think this is as cut and dry as everybody is making it seem.
Its pretty damn cut and dry, but to be fair, the breakdown is one of the less polarizing issues I've seen. Which I suppose is a slight positive.
By Fenderputty Go To PostIf somone wants to lay down why it’s not so cut and dry they’re welcome to do so.
#notallrepublicans
#justdamnnear,though
Hashtags with commas, y'all.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostI'd recommend not listening to the audio recording propublica just published.
Is it "dramatic" and not so "cut and dry"?
You know the right wing -- and not just at the fringe -- has already started calling these children "actors," right?
By Randolph Freelander Go To Post#notallrepublicansnaw its just funny how we go from anchor babies/we're trying to reunite them with their families hurr hurr to we're splitting up families
#justdamnnear,though
Hashtags with commas, y'all.
and even funnier how somehow we actually want to act like missing children in america is a thing out of somewhere
3 years ago you know what the move was on the border? when an immigrant said that their kid was missing agencies demanded that they prove said child ever existed - in a way to completely dodge liability and even justify not using manpower to go out and find said kid. people didn't even get to disappear, they never existed at all and in this day and age that's fucking horrifying
its not a nuanced discussion regarding immigration in general. its just BREAKING NEWS sensationalism boiled down to its most base level lol. "kids are in a detention facility" people don't even know what a real detention facility even looks like.
republicans aren't budging on it because whatever (and most sincerely give no fucks about prioritizing non-citizens in any way) and because they're generally more aware of the jacked up systems they've already greenlighted in the past - this doesn't even come close to those. this isn't even full hardline. full hardline is turning puerto rico into a transient prison colony
Intent is the key thing here, DY.
Yes, the US government has been unbelievably cruel to children of migrants and incarcerated parents in the past, but as a means to an end, that was not the intended result.
The WH COS is on record telling people that, 'yeah, we're doing this because it will accomplish something for us'
Yes, the US government has been unbelievably cruel to children of migrants and incarcerated parents in the past, but as a means to an end, that was not the intended result.
The WH COS is on record telling people that, 'yeah, we're doing this because it will accomplish something for us'
Look, separating those kids is traumatic for them, and it’s being done as a punitive measure/political bargaining chip. It’s fucking gross, man. There’s no other side to it. There’s nothing to be gained from whatabouting it.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostIntent is the key thing here, DY.intent is subjective and it also hinges on multiple levels, interpretations, blah blah. also, i reallllllllllly don't believe in the 'unbelievably cruel' angle either as a matter of perspective here. on the matter of deterrents, it effectively is for those who want to travel as a family - the many who don't give a fuck and want to drop their kids off in a situation better than the one they would've grown up in? not so much. and whatever goes down at a military base *gasp*, holding center *double gasp*, or makeshift tent city *omgasp* is still absolutely better than people winging it on their own in the gutter transit hubs across the US.
Yes, the US government has been unbelievably cruel to children of migrants and incarcerated parents in the past, but as a means to an end, that was not the intended result.
The WH COS is on record telling people that, 'yeah, we're doing this because it will accomplish something for us'
but we don't talk about that. we only refer to beautifully labeled 'sanctuary cities' - where they someone layout how awesome it is to not communicate with federal agencies about tracking at-risk persons and criminals alike lol
i only speak bluntly like this because you absolutely understand some of the large but unspoken issues surrounding the entirety of what's going on - and how its hardly something out of the blue. if you were to take a look at whatever large news broadcast and use that as your entire basis for what's going on.... yeah, it looks awful and sounds unheard and land of the free etc. but again, we're not telling people to die at sea and openly declaring every illegal immigrant a laborer for the state. cruel is relative as fuck... we've got issues regarding trafficking, absolutely, but none of them get solved when you're discussing the majority of those issues out of proper context.
By livefromkyoto Go To PostLook, separating those kids is traumatic for them, and it’s being done as a punitive measure/political bargaining chip. It’s fucking gross, man. There’s no other side to it. There’s nothing to be gained from whatabouting it.yeah there's another side to it if you've made this journey just to drop your kids off in the us or intend to sell them off along the way to secure the bag lol
for a lot of people, yeah its shit, but maybe consider what hurdles they cross to get here in the first place? calculated risk af no matter how you want to frame it and that's shitty reality immigrants face as a whole. the reasons to drop everything and wager it all are heavy. extremely heavy, and not taking that into consideration is chopping off a huge part of the equation. at the same time i wish people would expend energy on trying to find out more, why, the depth of it all, and how long things have been going on instead of just saying "this is horrible" louder and louder. we lost how many kids in a few weeks? how about over a year? three years? a decade? what cites are the worst for it? where are the hubs and what are they getting roped into - and how many would still rather be in our bullshit than where they come from?
so yeah there's more sides to it. they all suck too.
btw run up on australia and see how that goes. italy. greece. france. die of thirst while their navy watches to make sure. this argument is jolted by a lack of understanding about the baseline for this shit in general.
You say all that, and I can only say we can only be horrified at shit we know about. That's really it. And yes, I'm horrified by this, and the stuff you mentioned that I previously did not know about. And I could give a damn if other countries are doing it worse, except to say they should stop doing that.
Frankly, my position is that the border should be open to anyone who wants to come. Just show up. Have some papers so we know who you are (we're going to verify it, of course, I'm not talking about just letting any old terrorist saunter in, but there will certainly be no immigration caps or long waiting lists or anything of the sort). Let us know where you'll be. Enjoy your stay.
Frankly, my position is that the border should be open to anyone who wants to come. Just show up. Have some papers so we know who you are (we're going to verify it, of course, I'm not talking about just letting any old terrorist saunter in, but there will certainly be no immigration caps or long waiting lists or anything of the sort). Let us know where you'll be. Enjoy your stay.
I love how the UN is all of a sudden chiming in so quickly after most of their members got told fuck off by Trump on their tarrifs.
By the way. The SCOTUS turned tail and side stepped the gerrymandering cases if anyone was wondering. Kennedy didn't save the day.
Christ dy your shtick is tired. All you do is jerk off to your own moral superiority. The awfulness of our immigration system before trump isn't something known only by you. You can be aware of that and still find the particular policies of this administration especially appalling.
By Randolph Freelander Go To PostYou say all that, and I can only say we can only be horrified at shit we know about. That's really it. And yes, I'm horrified by this, and the stuff you mentioned that I previously did not know about. And I could give a damn if other countries are doing it worse, except to say they should stop doing that.i'm firstly always gonna be upset by people's lack of awareness for one of the world's biggest, growing issues short of water shortages and the like - so i'm not going to step off that stance. i can't :/ its a big deal and people should know. run from iran and end up in morocco missing multiple organs and have your genitals mutilated before being sold off to some rich port manager and that's if you're cute. its not personal or anything, i just care a lot.
Frankly, my position is that the border should be open to anyone who wants to come. Just show up. Have some papers so we know who you are (we're going to verify it, of course, I'm not talking about just letting any old terrorist saunter in, but there will certainly be no immigration caps or long waiting lists or anything of the sort). Let us know where you'll be. Enjoy your stay.
about your last sentence though - 'vetting' in particular was HORRIFYING just a year ago lol. it was tied onto a package of "its just women and children" for maximum effect.
that was all over the news. right around the time when governors and state legislation were angling for "Ally." points going into elections by saying they'd take in refugees (the irony). looked so awesome on tv but anyone aware of housing in their area was forced to roll the fuck out of their eyes. and i think that if people actually made a list of the headlines and narratives that there'd be a prevalent theme of it being more convenient - on both sides of the isle - to deal with the new downtrodden than the existing that've been here for generations and have developed long-standing grudges against certain faces of administration. all the economists or jetsons or activists can say that we can accept people indefinitely always manage to look past or conveniently gloss over growing problems here. its not practical. putting immigration in the tiniest of vaccuums only puts massive pressure on everything attached to it... and not knowing what's attached to it is how things get worse, not better.
long post. tl;dr: meh
By Lunatic Go To PostI love how the UN is all of a sudden chiming in so quickly after most of their members got told fuck off by Trump on their tarrifs.another problem i get with all this is that its directed pressure from other countries, 'friendly countries' at that, highlighting our human rights issues in efforts to deflect from their own. good optics, would shame again. it also encourages (to an extent) belief that once the US gets better, or opens borders, people will stop dying on their beaches and instead grow to take the longer, less practical trip here.
By curlyfries Go To PostChrist dy your shtick is tired. All you do is jerk off to your own moral superiority. The awfulness of our immigration system before trump isn't something known only by you. You can be aware of that and still find the particular policies of this administration especially appalling.naw. its not moral anything. im anti-immigration as fuck lol. im just consistently shocked at the greater ignorance to the issue each time i see someone plant a flag on shit they barely know or care about. i don't even get to be a proper asshole with anyone but hasphats
"this administration" my ass. the us has been consistent for decades lol. i guess i should be more appreciative. once "this administration" is over we can all relax and go back to how things were regarding immigration and human trafficking.
By DY_nasty Go To Postintent is subjective and it also hinges on multiple levels, interpretations, blah blah. also, i reallllllllllly don't believe in the 'unbelievably cruel' angle either as a matter of perspective here. on the matter of deterrents, it effectively is for those who want to travel as a family - the many who don't give a fuck and want to drop their kids off in a situation better than the one they would've grown up in? not so much. and whatever goes down at a military base *gasp*, holding center *double gasp*, or makeshift tent city *omgasp* is still absolutely better than people winging it on their own in the gutter transit hubs across the US.
Look man, it absolutely is a fair position to maintain that the federal government of the United States of America should hold itself to a higher standard than actual human traffickers when it comes to treating asylum seekers. And you can't hand wave away the significant number of people who are in fact traveling as a family and was not in anyway planning on dropping their kids off at the border and never seeing them again, no matter how preferable the situation is compared to roving death squads in El Salvador.
By DY_nasty Go To Postbtw run up on australia and see how that goes. italy. greece. france. die of thirst while their navy watches to make sure. this argument is jolted by a lack of understanding about the baseline for this shit in general.
Also, while this doesn't excuse the gross s*** that Italy is pulling with rescue ships lately, but at least these countries are not the root cause of the unrest these migrants are running away from. You know, us.
There's a moral reckoning here that you're not acknowledging.
By curlyfries Go To Postdid you even read the sentence before "this administration"because focusing on 'this administration' at all is like saying people just got racist recently
dismiss the problem as a whole and minimize it in a way that's specific, in any capacity, to trump and you're just fucking chickens. 'but the republicans' as even a starting point on this is especially not how you frame this issue
"the american immigration system is fundamentally inhumane. the policies of the trump administration are an intensification of that cruelty and openly white supremacist." there's your framing. any immigrant rights activist could give it to you.
This specific issue is exactly "but the republicans"
Not one has congressionally agreed to help end this and their constituents are mostly fine with it. Still pretty cut and dry.
Not one has congressionally agreed to help end this and their constituents are mostly fine with it. Still pretty cut and dry.
By curlyfries Go To Post"the american immigration system is fundamentally inhumane. the policies of the trump administration are an intensification of that cruelty and openly white supremacist." there's your framing. any immigrant rights activist could give it to you.its not even an intensification. they at least tell you what they're gonna and not acting like they're reuniting kids with their families who may or may not be in the countries they're being sent back to lol
its flatly not an intensification either. some people are just openly dicks about it because they can be. when we give out a shitload of guns or train people then send them back then like.... maybe it'll be picking up
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostLook man, it absolutely is a fair position to maintain that the federal government of the United States of America should hold itself to a higher standard than actual human traffickers when it comes to treating asylum seekers. And you can't hand wave away the significant number of people who are in fact traveling as a family and was not in anyway planning on dropping their kids off at the border and never seeing them again, no matter how preferable the situation is compared to roving death squads in El Salvador.its fair to want the best, shit everyone does. but considering how many families get broken up along the way normally, i'd rather the government handle it at a key point of failure and get properly shit on as needed instead of letting god sort them out. also, lets be real and not even touch the asylum seeker/terrorist thing too lol - because for some reason america thinks the term "economic immigrant" is outdated or at the least foreign/exclusive to europe. not everyone is running from a death squad or out to rape the white womenz. some people just want a better life. there's a waiting list in-house for that though.
Also, while this doesn't excuse the gross s*** that Italy is pulling with rescue ships lately, but at least these countries are not the root cause of the unrest these migrants are running away from. You know, us.
There's a moral reckoning here that you're not acknowledging.
and give those european countries some credit. we ain't the only ones stirring shit internationally lol. lord knows france stays lit
morally we can't just let people in and smile because those people get added to the existing pile of those being screwed over and exploited. its really easy to say "let anyone in" and not give a fuck what happens next. hell, that's the bigger problem than how big a tent city can get.
By Kibner Go To Postrvy'd
He would never lol
But I'm pretty sure when you get arrested anywhere you get separated from your family. And going zero tolerance on laws and policies that got reinforced in 2008 is something that could be prevented by giving a fuck if people were so inclined. Also, I'm not gonna flip when there's actual systemic processing and intake when one of the biggest things at border was people traveling with kids that weren't even there own lol
How long does this holding even last for again? How's the sponsor program doing? What's the asylum protection request system looking like as its the next unavoidable step after the misdemeanor of illegal entry?
shit go in. tell me something besides "but the kids" because tent city and mandated ZT processing is a step up from people dying to exposure, racist af views aside
But I'm pretty sure when you get arrested anywhere you get separated from your family. And going zero tolerance on laws and policies that got reinforced in 2008 is something that could be prevented by giving a fuck if people were so inclined. Also, I'm not gonna flip when there's actual systemic processing and intake when one of the biggest things at border was people traveling with kids that weren't even there own lol
How long does this holding even last for again? How's the sponsor program doing? What's the asylum protection request system looking like as its the next unavoidable step after the misdemeanor of illegal entry?
shit go in. tell me something besides "but the kids" because tent city and mandated ZT processing is a step up from people dying to exposure, racist af views aside
Imagine all the fucked up shit in this country and being mad that people are just starting to care about it now
Imagine telling posters not to give Trump voters the cold shoulder bc they were brainwashed that way but getting mad at people because they were brainwashed on the other end of the spectrum
Imagine telling posters not to give Trump voters the cold shoulder bc they were brainwashed that way but getting mad at people because they were brainwashed on the other end of the spectrum
By reilo Go To Posthttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-public-transit.htmlWe didn't care about our poor public transit under Obama so why should we care now?
By RobNBanks Go To PostWe didn't care about our poor public transit under Obama so why should we care now?what if i told you that article isn't really about public transit
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhat if i told you that article isn't really about public transit
Is this a new 30 for 30?
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhat if i told you that article isn't really about public transitStill the same response? Whatever it's about, we didn't care about it before so why start now
By RobNBanks Go To PostStill the same response? Whatever it's about, we didn't care about it before so why start now"whatever its about" this is why i keep popping shit lol
its a breakdown of the refinement of tactics used to gain populist traction and direct interests while playing 'both sides' and its all using methods that gained traction during the obama campaign. its being studied, packaged, and improved upon. there's even a great bit there about "do you really want these rich hipsters gentrifying your town?///do you really want these young 'criminals' robbing easy targets on the train?" and how you can work opposing viewpoints towards the same direction with proper framing and appropriate hands-on course correction.
pls care. or at least read. preferably both instead of getting butthurt that i'm not out to give people passes for acting like they do either
The issue isn't people caring, it's that people been punting on shit and letting Dems slide over a shit ton of anti humanitarian policy/actions, fascist crap like domestic spying and corporate malfeasance. Fact that people are still letting fucksticks like Feinstein run, I hate the dems.
I love the language they use. It's perfect and such an easy way to manipulate the idiots that make up this country. Too easy.
But let's appologize and spend time making headlines when a comdian accurately calls someone a feckless cunt.
The Democrats are such fucking losers, seemingly with no idea what they're up against.
But let's appologize and spend time making headlines when a comdian accurately calls someone a feckless cunt.
The Democrats are such fucking losers, seemingly with no idea what they're up against.