It seems like the performance chops are going to be real and it certainly has a good sounding exhaust but, (and this is a big but) much like the Civic Type R, I am worried that the looks might be a little over the top and skewed away from my preferences. Even so, I hope the Veloster N finds an audience and is successful for Hyundai. I certainly applaud them for the effort.
If that's really the design of the new Supra... welp.
It's definitely inspired by the FT-1 but "production-ized" to hell and back.
Hopefully this sells though, coz that money might just finally fund a TRD/STI Toyobaru lol.
Yup, if it was the i30 or Elantra GT I could see it selling gangbusters and stealing some sales from the Focus ST and GTI.
But as a Veloster, it's a tough sell imo... though I'd love to be wrong.
I can't speak for FoST's but from my short time with the Mk7 GTI communities, a lot of us get a GTI because of the fit and finish.
Things like the interior seem to take precedence over the looks and performance, and the performance seems to be a bonus lol. It's weird actually coz coming from a Miata with a barebones interior, I didn't think I'd be one of those people to actually think about how the interior is... yet here we are and I can't sit in a new econobox and not be disappointed at the interior lol.
That said, I sat in a 2015 Focus ST back when I was car shopping and my god that interior was awful. Granted that was only a couple of hours after I test drove my GTI so I might've had some bias, but it felt cramped and that clutch was as vague as the first time you tried to stick it down there lmao.
Well to be fair, the GTI is essentially the FWD Miata so it works well I think.
It's definitely inspired by the FT-1 but "production-ized" to hell and back.
Hopefully this sells though, coz that money might just finally fund a TRD/STI Toyobaru lol.
By matmanx1 Go To PostIt seems like the performance chops are going to be real and it certainly has a good sounding exhaust but, (and this is a big but) much like the Civic Type R, I am worried that the looks might be a little over the top and skewed away from my preferences. Even so, I hope the Veloster N finds an audience and is successful for Hyundai. I certainly applaud them for the effort.
Yup, if it was the i30 or Elantra GT I could see it selling gangbusters and stealing some sales from the Focus ST and GTI.
But as a Veloster, it's a tough sell imo... though I'd love to be wrong.
I can't speak for FoST's but from my short time with the Mk7 GTI communities, a lot of us get a GTI because of the fit and finish.
Things like the interior seem to take precedence over the looks and performance, and the performance seems to be a bonus lol. It's weird actually coz coming from a Miata with a barebones interior, I didn't think I'd be one of those people to actually think about how the interior is... yet here we are and I can't sit in a new econobox and not be disappointed at the interior lol.
That said, I sat in a 2015 Focus ST back when I was car shopping and my god that interior was awful. Granted that was only a couple of hours after I test drove my GTI so I might've had some bias, but it felt cramped and that clutch was as vague as the first time you tried to stick it down there lmao.
By BubbaKrumpz Go To PostTime to get rid of it. Funny how you went from Miata to gti and I’m trying to do the opposite 🤣
Well to be fair, the GTI is essentially the FWD Miata so it works well I think.
By jongkookie Go To PostIf that's really the design of the new Supra… welp.Oh I agree with you in regards to the interior. As much as I like a great sports car I really don't want to spend my money on a crap interior and I certainly don't want to be spending much time in it behind the wheel. I'm a bit snobbish that way but we all have our preferences, don't we?
It's definitely inspired by the FT-1 but "production-ized" to hell and back.
Hopefully this sells though, coz that money might just finally fund a TRD/STI Toyobaru lol.
Yup, if it was the i30 or Elantra GT I could see it selling gangbusters and stealing some sales from the Focus ST and GTI.
But as a Veloster, it's a tough sell imo… though I'd love to be wrong.
I can't speak for FoST's but from my short time with the Mk7 GTI communities, a lot of us get a GTI because of the fit and finish.
Things like the interior seem to take precedence over the looks and performance, and the performance seems to be a bonus lol. It's weird actually coz coming from a Miata with a barebones interior, I didn't think I'd be one of those people to actually think about how the interior is… yet here we are and I can't sit in a new econobox and not be disappointed at the interior lol.
That said, I sat in a 2015 Focus ST back when I was car shopping and my god that interior was awful. Granted that was only a couple of hours after I test drove my GTI so I might've had some bias, but it felt cramped and that clutch was as vague as the first time you tried to stick it down there lmao.
Well to be fair, the GTI is essentially the FWD Miata so it works well I think.
I think that Supra would benefit from a nose job, in the form of a new bumper. And hopefully aftermarket jumps on that quick, because they did a great job of making the GT86 look handsome. I'd like to see a successful sports car from Toyota, because I want to see one from Honda and Nissan, as well.
By matmanx1 Go To PostOh I agree with you in regards to the interior. As much as I like a great sports car I really don't want to spend my money on a crap interior and I certainly don't want to be spending much time in it behind the wheel. I'm a bit snobbish that way but we all have our preferences, don't we?It's my biggest gripe with American sports cars. Their interiors are all just different shades of awful. Gearheads like to believe owning a sports car just means constantly being on a race track or driving too fast to ever notice, but nah breh.
Really, the interiors on American cars in general are kind of crap. I sat down in a Focus RS when I was shopping for the Cayman and... it still has the interior from the base Focus. This shouldn't happen with a 40K car. Atrocious. Both the Camaro and the Mustang have nearly as garbage interiors, albeit for very different reasons. Once you start getting upwards of 50K, that kind of interior becomes a deal breaker really damn fast when you start comparing it with German stuff. They seem to think they can just shove fancier seats and a dash cover in the higher end models and call it good, and that's a big fat nope. Not that easy.
It's the same thing with pretty much every GM and Ford SUV and truck I've seen, too. And Cadillac's stuff. I just don't get it.
The interior of my Cayman might be plain, but it's made of quality materials and tightly screwed together. I'd describe it as workmanlike in a good way.
It's the same thing with pretty much every GM and Ford SUV and truck I've seen, too. And Cadillac's stuff. I just don't get it.
The interior of my Cayman might be plain, but it's made of quality materials and tightly screwed together. I'd describe it as workmanlike in a good way.
Like, besides the wheel, what is happening here? The entire center console and the shifter console area looks like it came from two different cars. And the entire passenger side where the glovebox is looks like it came from a truck lol.
By Christberg Go To PostReally, the interiors on American cars in general are kind of crap. I sat down in a Focus RS when I was shopping for the Cayman and… it still has the interior from the base Focus. This shouldn't happen with a 40K car. Atrocious. Both the Camaro and the Mustang have nearly as garbage interiors, albeit for very different reasons. Once you start getting upwards of 50K, that kind of interior becomes a deal breaker really damn fast when you start comparing it with German stuff. They seem to think they can just shove fancier seats and a dash cover in the higher end models and call it good, and that's a big fat nope. Not that easy.
It's the same thing with pretty much every GM and Ford SUV and truck I've seen, too. And Cadillac's stuff. I just don't get it.
The interior of my Cayman might be plain, but it's made of quality materials and tightly screwed together. I'd describe it as workmanlike in a good way.
Agree. I think the biggest disappointment I had is the first time I drove a corvette. I was shocked how bad it was. I know its great performance for money, but that interior is so bad I'd rather get something slower. This was a C5 btw. I've also driven C4s and C6s which are also fairly terrible. I've only sat in the C7 once, but it did seem like a big improvement, but didn't spend much time with it.
I think my least favorite interiors are GM's from early-mid 90s until late 2000s. They're just downright horrible. Ford is also bad during that time. And unexpectedly I think Chryslers were the best of the American brands in that time, and thats even knowing how their plastic dashboards all shatter into many pieces.
I will say I'm pretty picky when it comes to interiors though, and it alone can put me off from a car.
It just boggles my mind how they lack fundamental design principles in any of their decisions. Then throw in the fact that the quality of the interior itself is really poor?
By reilo Go To PostLike, besides the wheel, what is happening here? The entire center console and the shifter console area looks like it came from two different cars. And the entire passenger side where the glovebox is looks like it came from a truck lol.
Let's see... from test drive memory, been a while so I might not be 100%
The center stack stuff is all plastic that's "matte aluminum" colored except for the drive mode toggle switches, which are chrome plastic
The cup holder and shifter outline trim are "gloss chrome" plastic
the top of the shifter is "matte aluminum" plastic
The shifter stalk and shifter column are some sort of really thin, cheap aluminum or steel with no finish
The glove box is the same exact one they use in all their SUVs
The HVAC vents are the same one they use in almost all their cars including the Fiesta
It's pretty pukey stuff, but then it's built off the much cheaper built for a rental stuff so you can't be too shocked. I mean, I don't have any issue with parts sharing as long as the parts are good ones. It's the aggressive cost cutting that always gets me.
I'm also fairly certain that on the GT350 the drive mode selector switches actually get switched out for aluminum ones, but then they paint them matte black for some dumb unknown reason.
I thought about checking out a Corvette too, but same thing- coming out of a Camaro the interior wasn't notably better and they're frankly much larger than you'd think in pictures. The footprint isn't any smaller than a mid size sedan, really. Not what I'm looking for in a sports car.
I'm picky as hell about interiors, but then that's the place you spend all your time. If you didn't it'd be somebody else's car.
All of that sounds atrocious, jesus. It's not just the lack of design principles, but it sounds like the lack of design cohesion.
It's both for sure. The look isn't as mismatched or distracting in person as you'd think to the untrained eye, mostly because the interior is pretty dark. If you've got even the slightest OCD about design stuff it'll make your hackles go straight up though.
Especially after you sit in an import-luxe car where pretty much everything that appears to be metal is actually metal.
Especially after you sit in an import-luxe car where pretty much everything that appears to be metal is actually metal.
That Mustang above is also committing one of my pet peeves for any car interior and that is that fact that it is nearly monochromatic. Like I can put up with lower quality materials on the bottom of the door panels or on non-touch points in an "out of sight, nearly out of mind" kind of way but when everywhere I look is the same shade of black or gray it really bores me.
And again, that's just me being picky, but even on something like my Miata (which has very obvious low cost plastics all over the place) it has black dash with silver trim and then chocolate brown door cards and seats with the icy blue deviated stitching. So at least it's interesting to look at and none of the shapes are offensive.
I admit to being a little bit crazy in this respect but when I climb inside a car one of the first things I am looking for is how well do the shapes flow together in the interior and are there any interesting contrasts in color. If the car fails that test then I won't own it.
And again, that's just me being picky, but even on something like my Miata (which has very obvious low cost plastics all over the place) it has black dash with silver trim and then chocolate brown door cards and seats with the icy blue deviated stitching. So at least it's interesting to look at and none of the shapes are offensive.
I admit to being a little bit crazy in this respect but when I climb inside a car one of the first things I am looking for is how well do the shapes flow together in the interior and are there any interesting contrasts in color. If the car fails that test then I won't own it.
By reilo Go To PostIt just boggles my mind how they lack fundamental design principles in any of their decisions. Then throw in the fact that the quality of the interior itself is really poor?
This will fuck your mind up:
The reason why the passenger side dash has the same hump (with that pointless Mustang emblem) with the air vent integrated into...is because this is the first ever global Mustang. It makes manufacturing an RHD car extremely simple, since the top of the dashboard stays the same, with the steering wheel being swapped around. It's just one less major part for them to make a unique RHD version of. Thus the double hump on top of the dash.
I honestly can't remember any other car that made it so obvious, but no one called it out. It is unsightly.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostThis will fuck your mind up:
The reason why the passenger side dash has the same hump (with that pointless Mustang emblem) with the air vent integrated into…is because this is the first ever global Mustang. It makes manufacturing an RHD car extremely simple, since the top of the dashboard stays the same, with the steering wheel being swapped around. It's just one less major part for them to make a unique RHD version of. Thus the double hump on top of the dash.
I honestly can't remember any other car that made it so obvious, but no one called it out. It is unsightly.
I'm pretty sure all mustangs except the 2nd gen and 3rd gen had the double hump dashboards though. And they weren't ever even made in RHD.
Just came home from the DFW Auto Show and yeah, it's amazing how shitty American interiors are compared to Japan or Europe. It's like blatant highway robbery when you put all these cars next together.
Anyway, pics soon. Still gotta export, edit, and all that good stuff.
Anyway, pics soon. Still gotta export, edit, and all that good stuff.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostThis will fuck your mind up:
The reason why the passenger side dash has the same hump (with that pointless Mustang emblem) with the air vent integrated into…is because this is the first ever global Mustang. It makes manufacturing an RHD car extremely simple, since the top of the dashboard stays the same, with the steering wheel being swapped around. It's just one less major part for them to make a unique RHD version of. Thus the double hump on top of the dash.
I honestly can't remember any other car that made it so obvious, but no one called it out. It is unsightly.
Ehhh, shogun's right. The double hump is really a retro touch:
Wow, I stand corrected. I've been in my friend's 2005 Mustang many times back in LA, and my friend here has a Terminator. And I'm surprised how I never noticed it in those cars, yet in the current model it stands out like an ugly sore thumb.
When I test drove a 6MT 5.0 in 2016 (this was while a friend was shopping for an F150, I didn't intentionally go looking for a Mustang!) I commented to the sales rep about how much I disliked the glove box and the extra pointless hump. So that is when he explained why it looked like that. He was way off base, to some extent.
Although, I bet it still does make RHD models somewhat cheaper to make.
When I test drove a 6MT 5.0 in 2016 (this was while a friend was shopping for an F150, I didn't intentionally go looking for a Mustang!) I commented to the sales rep about how much I disliked the glove box and the extra pointless hump. So that is when he explained why it looked like that. He was way off base, to some extent.
Although, I bet it still does make RHD models somewhat cheaper to make.
Some of my favorites cars and shots from the DFW Auto Show:
Not a huge fan of this green color... looks like a Christmas tree when paired with the red trim of the GTI.
I still want one lol.
A lot of people were crowding this thing and I was getting some side-eye from them coz I was calling it ugly af in any other color besides black lmao.
This thing is striking in person. The matte red does wonders imo. Too bad Lexus doesn't sell it like this, this specific LC500 is a customer car and just loaned it to Lexus coz they honestly had no other interesting cars to look at besides the Black Panther LC500.
I really really really really want those wheels on my GTI... but I imagine they're gonna be ridiculously expensive to get.
Yep, this is the same Chiron that I saw in Cars and Coffee a few weeks ago. There's literally only one in Dallas and this is it. There was some poster next to it about who the owner is, didn't care enough to take a pic but unsurprisingly it's some dude in the healthcare industry.
*froths at mouth*
Ford can afford to bring this but they can't afford to bring a Mustang GT with Sync 3... I didn't take any pics unfortunately but all of the Mustangs on the floor had those shitty ass buttons on the interior(basically the base trim interior) instead of Sync/big touchscreen thing.
Me and my sister agreed that this thing looks like a catfish lmao. Toyota rep was not happy when I was describing the foglights as the whiskers to the gaping mouth/grille haha.
And finally, ladies and gents, this probably is gonna be my future car... if I can afford it lol.
You can view the full album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmd2DUKV
Not a huge fan of this green color... looks like a Christmas tree when paired with the red trim of the GTI.
I still want one lol.
A lot of people were crowding this thing and I was getting some side-eye from them coz I was calling it ugly af in any other color besides black lmao.
This thing is striking in person. The matte red does wonders imo. Too bad Lexus doesn't sell it like this, this specific LC500 is a customer car and just loaned it to Lexus coz they honestly had no other interesting cars to look at besides the Black Panther LC500.
I really really really really want those wheels on my GTI... but I imagine they're gonna be ridiculously expensive to get.
Yep, this is the same Chiron that I saw in Cars and Coffee a few weeks ago. There's literally only one in Dallas and this is it. There was some poster next to it about who the owner is, didn't care enough to take a pic but unsurprisingly it's some dude in the healthcare industry.
*froths at mouth*
Ford can afford to bring this but they can't afford to bring a Mustang GT with Sync 3... I didn't take any pics unfortunately but all of the Mustangs on the floor had those shitty ass buttons on the interior(basically the base trim interior) instead of Sync/big touchscreen thing.
Me and my sister agreed that this thing looks like a catfish lmao. Toyota rep was not happy when I was describing the foglights as the whiskers to the gaping mouth/grille haha.
And finally, ladies and gents, this probably is gonna be my future car... if I can afford it lol.
You can view the full album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmd2DUKV
I will say one thing for VW and that GTI; at least they are using some color on their cars and not making everything white, black and four shades of gray! Bring on the color, I say.
Great photos jongkookie, as always. That Bullitt Mustang is easily the best looking Mustang I have seen in a while, that matte red LC500 is great and the RS5 is definitely hot (I just wish it had a dual clutch!).
Great photos jongkookie, as always. That Bullitt Mustang is easily the best looking Mustang I have seen in a while, that matte red LC500 is great and the RS5 is definitely hot (I just wish it had a dual clutch!).
Thanks y'all!
Nikon D800 + Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70mm f/2.8 lens.
It's overkill tbh... thing spits out 36 megapixels with a 41MB RAW file lol.
Yeah, I agree that it's cool VW's doing different colors... I just wish it was a different shade of green, maybe like a mint green instead of Christmas tree green lol.
That RS5 is just sexy lol. I already fell for it when Motor Trend did their comparo with a AMG C63S... seeing it up close just reaffirmed that it was for me haha.
EDIT: Also did this to my GTI just now:
I blacked out the red/chrome stripe on the grille coz the misalignment with the headlights was starting to bother me lol. It looks a toooooooon better now though I still might pick up a GTD grille(it's all chrome IIRC) if I see one on sale lol.
By Smokey Go To PostGreat pics. What camera are you using?
Nikon D800 + Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70mm f/2.8 lens.
It's overkill tbh... thing spits out 36 megapixels with a 41MB RAW file lol.
By matmanx1 Go To PostI will say one thing for VW and that GTI; at least they are using some color on their cars and not making everything white, black and four shades of gray! Bring on the color, I say.
Great photos jongkookie, as always. That Bullitt Mustang is easily the best looking Mustang I have seen in a while, that matte red LC500 is great and the RS5 is definitely hot (I just wish it had a dual clutch!).
Yeah, I agree that it's cool VW's doing different colors... I just wish it was a different shade of green, maybe like a mint green instead of Christmas tree green lol.
That RS5 is just sexy lol. I already fell for it when Motor Trend did their comparo with a AMG C63S... seeing it up close just reaffirmed that it was for me haha.
EDIT: Also did this to my GTI just now:
I blacked out the red/chrome stripe on the grille coz the misalignment with the headlights was starting to bother me lol. It looks a toooooooon better now though I still might pick up a GTD grille(it's all chrome IIRC) if I see one on sale lol.
MotorTrend just weighed in on the 4 cylinder F-Type and they were pretty happy with it in all areas but the price. Starting at $59,900 (and over $68k as tested) it is significantly more expensive than several better performing rivals. Still, it is an interesting review and a good read on how good 4 cylinder sports cars have gotten lately. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/jaguar/f-type/2018/2018-jaguar-f-type-coupe-turbo-four-first-test-review/
Been deliberating between an 2017 #brexit spec S3, M240i or just a Golf R cause I thinking of buying a new condo.
Decisions, decisions....
Decisions, decisions....
Big news is that the GT3s will be getting twin turbos. So if you have the coin...buy a 991 GT3 right fucking now and hold on to it. This is about to get real like the air-cooled 993s did, when they went out of production.
Not you specifically...but you know, those who got bread. :'(
Us poor folk have to stick to lesser vehicles.
Us poor folk have to stick to lesser vehicles.
Preach it. I've budgeted around $70k for my next vehicle purchase and even though we can afford it, it still sounds like a scary amount of money to spend on a car. GT3 folk and their ilk might as well be sports car royalty from where I am sitting. That's ok though, there's plenty of great rides out there at reasonable prices. I don't begrudge GT3 owners their toys but I do aspire to have a nice toy or two of my own!
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostTa daaaa:That new Porsche family design language that has the "light bar" connecting the tail lights across the back is not my favorite. It isn't as clean as the old design. The Macan refresh is also getting that very similar to what the 718 Boxster and Cayman already have. It's a minor quibble of mine.
Gotta love leaks. This is the 992 911.
For my most recent round of vehicle purchases I budgeted 75K which is like 2.5 times what I have ever spent on cars. It felt like a HUGE amount of money at the time, and it still does, sort of.
It'd be pretty damn hard to justify 150K for a toy car unless I was stupid rich considering what's available in the 60-90K range, especially lightly used. Doesn't make a 911 GT3 not a dream car though.
It'd be pretty damn hard to justify 150K for a toy car unless I was stupid rich considering what's available in the 60-90K range, especially lightly used. Doesn't make a 911 GT3 not a dream car though.
Same story as 458 -> 488.
458, especially the spider, don't really appreciate but they don't depreciate either. At least here in Germany.
Most of the low mileage and fully equipped cars are owned by people who love NA engines.
458, especially the spider, don't really appreciate but they don't depreciate either. At least here in Germany.
Most of the low mileage and fully equipped cars are owned by people who love NA engines.
By TTTR Go To PostSame story as 458 -> 488.
458, especially the spyder, don't really appreciate but they don't depreciate either. At least here in Germany.
Most of the low mileage and fully equipped cars are owned by people who love NA engines.
The difference between the 458 and a GT3 is the production volume of the 458 is absolutely tremendous. Rare it isn't. A 991 GT3 is lower volume, but once you factor in the extremely rare 6MT GT3 Touring model, that's where things get very interesting for a collector.
By reilo Go To Post
Is this supposed to compete with the Panamera?
Wtf is this? The Panamera and CLS are director competitors.
I've heard they considered an AMG-GT fastback sedan...but wtf? This is it? Porsche managed to expel the monstrosity of rear ends looking like that. But Mercedes dove right in and said "hold my bratwurst, fam" and took a step back 10 years.
By AlphaSnacks Go To Post"hold my bratwurst, fam"Halt meine Bratwurst, Alter!
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostThe difference between the 458 and a GT3 is the production volume of the 458 is absolutely tremendous. Rare it isn't. A 991 GT3 is lower volume, but once you factor in the extremely rare 6MT GT3 Touring model, that's where things get very interesting for a collector.Ok you're probably right, i should have refined. Maybe the speciale would be more appropriate as an example.
The GT3 isn't a rare sight for me. Most days i see a few of them cruising around when 9 out of 10 days one Ferrari is the maximum number. Otherwise one or two more.
[EDIT]: when looking at the production numbers there's a speculated volume of 6000 - 8000 GT3 RS alone. So GT3.1, GT3.2 and GT3RS combined i bet there are 10-12k GT3s. Or am i awfully wrong here?
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostThe difference between the 458 and a GT3 is the production volume of the 458 is absolutely tremendous. Rare it isn't. A 991 GT3 is lower volume, but once you factor in the extremely rare 6MT GT3 Touring model, that's where things get very interesting for a collector.
Which is exactly what I'd want. It's basically a perfect sports car. Manual transmission, 500 HP, high revving V6 that sounds awesome, still pretty small and tossable. I can't wait to see if we get a Cayman GT4 with this motor and (hopefully) north of 450 HP. That'd be even better. Not that a 911 GT3 with RWS isn't close enough, regardless.
By Christberg Go To PostWhich is exactly what I'd want. It's basically a perfect sports car. Manual transmission, 500 HP, high revving V6 that sounds awesome, still pretty small and tossable. I can't wait to see if we get a Cayman GT4 with this motor and (hopefully) north of 450 HP. That'd be even better. Not that a 911 GT3 with RWS isn't close enough, regardless.Blasphemy
By TTTR Go To PostOk you're probably right, i should have refined. Maybe the speciale would be more appropriate as an example.
The GT3 isn't a rare sight for me. Most days i see a few of them cruising around when 9 out of 10 days one Ferrari is the maximum number. Otherwise one or two more.
[EDIT]: when looking at the production numbers there's a speculated volume of 6000 - 8000 GT3 RS alone. So GT3.1, GT3.2 and GT3RS combined i bet there are 10-12k GT3s. Or am i awfully wrong here?
Worldwide? Sounds about right.
But the new Touring model is the one I'm harping on with my point, though. That's the 6MT model. There are no production numbers for it, since it's only a few months old. I don't even think American market has received any. But I know Chris Harris just got his...and Jerry Seinfeld congratulated him.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostBut the new Touring model is the one I'm harping on with my point, though. That's the 6MT model. There are no production numbers for it, since it's only a few months old. I don't even think American market has received any. But I know Chris Harris just got his…and Jerry Seinfeld congratulated him.Ok but that's like comparing the 458 SA (speciale aperta, LE of 499, maybe some more after all it's Ferrari, they always produce a few more) to the whole 458 series.
When comparing the whole series' (458 and GT3) i think my point still stands. Both NA, comparable production volume and holding their value pretty well. AND of course awesome cars.
Maybe we talked past each other. :)
By Lunatic Go To PostBlasphemy
Flat 6 🙄