By KingGondo Go To PostGood summary of the Sanders bill, including lots about funding.
It's actually not bad. The thing that stood out to me was this:
Higher income taxes on the very rich. The plan calls for creating more tax brackets for higher earners with marginal tax rates spanning from 40 percent for income made between $250,000 and $500,000 to 52 percent for income made over $10 million.
All good on the 10 million + earners. The divide between 40% at 250,000 and then 52% at 10 million seems odd to me. I'd cut that down significantly for guys on the lower end of that, and lower the 10 million dollar treshhold significantly.
As a baseline, I think this is good though.
Makes a ton of sense to me. Plus I'm with Red Blaster when he says that health care needs to be decommodified. The profit motive distorts the market so badly.
Regardless, it makes me extremely optimistic that we've gone from barely squeezing through the ACA to having more than 15 Senators co-sponsor a single payer bill in less than 10 years. If we keep pushing we are going to win.
Regardless, it makes me extremely optimistic that we've gone from barely squeezing through the ACA to having more than 15 Senators co-sponsor a single payer bill in less than 10 years. If we keep pushing we are going to win.
Jemele Hill getting some backup from Charles Pierce: https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/09/13/jemele-hill-espn-donald-trump-white-supremacist-statement
That's not really anything new. Those details have been on his site for a while and are not part of his bill. That tax bracket from 40 to 52 is weird. The bill for taxation would come after and be figured out later though so none of that would end out looking like that. The translation period details are new and so is the destruction of the private insurance market is new.
Yeah I suppose since you ignored all the examples of a multi payer system in which it doesn't .
Willful ignorance... another check mark on the tea party comparison chart.
By KingGondo Go To PostPlus I'm with Red Blaster when he says that health care needs to be decommodified. The profit motive distorts the market so badly.
.
Yeah I suppose since you ignored all the examples of a multi payer system in which it doesn't .
Willful ignorance... another check mark on the tea party comparison chart.
The profit motive is exactly why nothing is going to change. Bernie will be long dead before anything meaningful happens.
John Hopkins is the largest private employer in the state of Maryland. There's no legislation that can tell an annual multi-trillion dollar industry, okay, so here's how this is going to work now...
Like, that's not remotely feasible in any meaningful way. No one will win any election once people learn they're out of work.
Wanting everyone to have coverage is a nice idea, but no one cares about poor people once their own ass is on the line.
Healthcare is literally to big to fail.
John Hopkins is the largest private employer in the state of Maryland. There's no legislation that can tell an annual multi-trillion dollar industry, okay, so here's how this is going to work now...
Like, that's not remotely feasible in any meaningful way. No one will win any election once people learn they're out of work.
Wanting everyone to have coverage is a nice idea, but no one cares about poor people once their own ass is on the line.
Healthcare is literally to big to fail.
Good news:
Border security and no wall funding. I called that trade. Apparently he's working with Pelosi and Schumer on tax reform too.
this is the second time he's cut Ryan's legs out from under him. Wasn't even a week ago Paul Ryan was saying wall funding would me mandatory. The horror on Jeff Sessions face is making me happy
Border security and no wall funding. I called that trade. Apparently he's working with Pelosi and Schumer on tax reform too.
this is the second time he's cut Ryan's legs out from under him. Wasn't even a week ago Paul Ryan was saying wall funding would me mandatory. The horror on Jeff Sessions face is making me happy
By RobNBanks Go To Post3 hours later he said if we don't get the wall we'll be obstructionist
Which is amazing since that's calling out republicans after he made the deal with the Dems.
By Dark PhaZe Go To PostIt's actually not bad. The thing that stood out to me was this:
All good on the 10 million + earners. The divide between 40% at 250,000 and then 52% at 10 million seems odd to me. I'd cut that down significantly for guys on the lower end of that, and lower the 10 million dollar treshhold significantly.
As a baseline, I think this is good though.
I am exceedingly dubious of those taxes being enough. But we will see.
Let's see which enterprising Republican senator is going to send this bill to the CBO
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostLet's see which enterprising Republican senator is going to send this bill to the CBO
Can a bill that doesn't contain revenue in it be scored? Those taxes aren't in his bill. They're a list of "possibilities"
Payment is unclear. A generous plan that covers all Americans is going to require more revenue. There's no exact plan for how to pay for Sanders' bill, but he did on Wednesday afternoon release a list of potential payment options. Among the proposals: a 7.5 percent payroll tax on employers, a 4 percent individual income tax and an array of taxes on wealthier Americans, as well as corporations. In addition, Sanders' plan says the end of big health insurance-related tax expenditures, like employers' ability to deduct insurance premiums, would save trillions of dollars. But even with all of those potential revenue-boosters, Sanders may still fall far short of the total amount of money needed to pay for his ambitious program. Altogether, his estimates of how much money his funding mechanisms would generate totals up to around $16 trillion over 10 years. In a 2016 report on his presidential campaign's "Medicare for All" plan, the Urban Institute estimated that the plan would cost $32 trillion over 10 years.
http://www.npr.org/2017/09/14/550768280/heres-whats-in-bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-bill
You're probably correct it seems too.
If anyone wants a dose of Schadenfreude, go read the Breitbart comments section. Dear lord. Full fucking meltdown mode
The biggest issue with this Medicare bill is not even the budget piece.
It's the supply. A plan this generous will send healthcare demand through the roof
It's the supply. A plan this generous will send healthcare demand through the roof
How do you build the infrastructure needed to not only be the entity funding this but also the entity administering this in 4 years to an entire nation?
I'll use Kaiser again as an example. They've been around decades, but they've really only become top notch in the last 10 years or so. I remember when I was a kid they kinda sucked. Had to drive all over the place to go see a doctor or go to the hospital because they didn't have the faculty or the facilities. My father got them through the electrical union.
I actually lost Kaiser for about 10 years after losing his plan and getting my own through various employers out of college. They were OK but not great then. At my current job Kaiser is available again. When I signed back up I downloaded the app on my phone. They still had all my past medical records at my fingertips. All of my algeries etc etc. Their referral service is now streamlined. They have phone nurses if you're not sure if what you have is serious enough to come in. You can even use phone calls for specific illnesses to your doctor. Prescriptions are easy through the app. There's hospitals everywhere in California now. There's medical offices everywhere in California now. Fuck ... the Electrical Subcontractor I work for is building (2) local medical office for Kaiser as we speak and there's more going up we didn't get.
There are just so many logistical challenges ...
I'll use Kaiser again as an example. They've been around decades, but they've really only become top notch in the last 10 years or so. I remember when I was a kid they kinda sucked. Had to drive all over the place to go see a doctor or go to the hospital because they didn't have the faculty or the facilities. My father got them through the electrical union.
I actually lost Kaiser for about 10 years after losing his plan and getting my own through various employers out of college. They were OK but not great then. At my current job Kaiser is available again. When I signed back up I downloaded the app on my phone. They still had all my past medical records at my fingertips. All of my algeries etc etc. Their referral service is now streamlined. They have phone nurses if you're not sure if what you have is serious enough to come in. You can even use phone calls for specific illnesses to your doctor. Prescriptions are easy through the app. There's hospitals everywhere in California now. There's medical offices everywhere in California now. Fuck ... the Electrical Subcontractor I work for is building (2) local medical office for Kaiser as we speak and there's more going up we didn't get.
There are just so many logistical challenges ...
I'm not really paying attention to the details but do any of these health care proposals mention unifying medical records or having a central repository that various different medical systems can draw from?
I ask because lol trying to get that shit together for everyone. The current systems don't even share the same definition of what a "visit" is.
I ask because lol trying to get that shit together for everyone. The current systems don't even share the same definition of what a "visit" is.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostYo why does he look like a baby in this photo?
"I no fockin baby" out here.
Because he's a sixteen year old boy's reddit post that became sentient.
By KingGondo Go To PostMakes a ton of sense to me. Plus I'm with Red Blaster when he says that health care needs to be decommodified. The profit motive distorts the market so badly.
I know what you're saying, but until you nationalize big pharma, that never goes away. Even single-payer has a reinsurer behind it. But that said yeah, the naked corporate piracy behind US healthcare needs to be mitigated.
By Kibner Go To PostI'm not really paying attention to the details but do any of these health care proposals mention unifying medical records or having a central repository that various different medical systems can draw from?
I ask because lol trying to get that shit together for everyone. The current systems don't even share the same definition of what a "visit" is.
Good question. I'm looking. I don't think so though. Nothing proposed has been that detailed.
I'm not finding anything on the unification of medical records under these bills, Kib. The most I've found is that HIPPA required providers make records available to their customers digitally in 2009. There's no communication between the providers though. I would imagine if most info is now digital, it shouldn't be impossible.
The transition is actually my favorite part of Sanders bill. Apparently Gillibrand put this in. You could extend the transition period out too. I still don't think it's the best plan for the US, but I like parts of it. Curious if the medicare buy in can become it's own piece of legislation.
The transition is actually my favorite part of Sanders bill. Apparently Gillibrand put this in. You could extend the transition period out too. I still don't think it's the best plan for the US, but I like parts of it. Curious if the medicare buy in can become it's own piece of legislation.
It's not exactly impossible, Fender, but it also isn't exactly feasible. Every single system has a different data structure; things don't mean the same between systems. Like, not only are what information about a visit is stored is different, but also how it is stored, and what each property of a visit even means. Hell, a lot of them change the structure of how the data is stored depending on if you are accessing real-time day data (stuff from that day, usually) or things stored in a data warehouse. The system I had to help integrate had data spread across databases that were either relational or object-based, depending on the usage.
Yeah, things are stored digitally now. But not using the same standards or conventions. It's like saying everyone can send emails now so it should be easy to communicate with everyone (automated translation is still not good enough and some people's email clients can't even display characters for certain languages). It would take over a decade and so much money to make all the systems able to talk to each other effectively.
At this point, hospitals are still working on getting their records straight enough so that they no longer have the same person in the system multiple different times.
e: I do appreciate you looking, btw. I remember it being talked about before with Obamacare and just chuckling to myself about how impossible it sounded since I was working in the trenches of medical records at the time.
Yeah, things are stored digitally now. But not using the same standards or conventions. It's like saying everyone can send emails now so it should be easy to communicate with everyone (automated translation is still not good enough and some people's email clients can't even display characters for certain languages). It would take over a decade and so much money to make all the systems able to talk to each other effectively.
At this point, hospitals are still working on getting their records straight enough so that they no longer have the same person in the system multiple different times.
e: I do appreciate you looking, btw. I remember it being talked about before with Obamacare and just chuckling to myself about how impossible it sounded since I was working in the trenches of medical records at the time.
I knew it was an issue, but I hadn't thought about it in a while until your brought it up. If the US were to ever move to a central system it would have to happen and it seems like it will be another challenge that nobody is discussing. If everyone goes to the doc in the first 4 years though I would imagine most of the important info can be gained during that period. Probably take less time
SK supposedly fired a warming shot back too.
By blackace Go To PostAnd NK launched another missile over Japan
SK supposedly fired a warming shot back too.
It doesn't have anything to do with gathering the information as much as making all the existing systems able to actually exchange information reliably. There is a standard protocol to send small, individual messages over, but it is a loose protocol that every vendor interprets differently and also supports custom segments so even if they did, it's still not good enough.
Healthcare is a mess from top to bottom.
Healthcare is a mess from top to bottom.
By blackace Go To Postit's getting uglyYeah, now its getting hot
By DY_nasty Go To PostYeah, now its getting hotOver/Under I get to play Kingdom Hearts 3 before nuclear war?
By DY_nasty Go To PostYeah, now its getting hotKinda sucks how close I live to Yokota airbase
By s y Go To PostOver/Under I get to play Kingdom Hearts 3 before nuclear war?I'm not worried about NK getting slapped the fuck up, its everyone else acting stupid during the stabilization
This aggression will not stand, man.
For real though, it won't - someone will feel the need to slap him down.
For real though, it won't - someone will feel the need to slap him down.
By Fenderputty Go To PostHow do you build the infrastructure needed to not only be the entity funding this but also the entity administering this in 4 years to an entire nation?
I'll use Kaiser again as an example. They've been around decades, but they've really only become top notch in the last 10 years or so. I remember when I was a kid they kinda sucked. Had to drive all over the place to go see a doctor or go to the hospital because they didn't have the faculty or the facilities. My father got them through the electrical union.
I actually lost Kaiser for about 10 years after losing his plan and getting my own through various employers out of college. They were OK but not great then. At my current job Kaiser is available again. When I signed back up I downloaded the app on my phone. They still had all my past medical records at my fingertips. All of my algeries etc etc. Their referral service is now streamlined. They have phone nurses if you're not sure if what you have is serious enough to come in. You can even use phone calls for specific illnesses to your doctor. Prescriptions are easy through the app. There's hospitals everywhere in California now. There's medical offices everywhere in California now. Fuck … the Electrical Subcontractor I work for is building (2) local medical office for Kaiser as we speak and there's more going up we didn't get.
There are just so many logistical challenges …
As someone with Kaiser they still suck imo. Basically impossible to get an appointment with a psychiatrist in San Diego (they will put you on a waitlist and forget about you unless you're calling them daily about cancellations), and if you want to see anybody who isn't your GP you're going to be waiting months. Actually feels like they've gotten worse about actually seeing doctors in recent years, but it's hard to quantify.
By blackace Go To PostAnd NK launched another missile over Japan
Yep.
Got the tv on during work bout the launch.
Got mail from my Moms askin if errything alright.
Its crazy man
By DY_nasty Go To PostI'm not worried about NK getting slapped the fuck up, its everyone else acting stupid during the stabilization
Yea.
Like NK WILL get fucked up one way or another. Thats not the main problem.
The problem is whats next when the dust settled and US, China, SK and Japan are left w/ the remands
By curlyfries Go To PostAs someone with Kaiser they still suck imo. Basically impossible to get an appointment with a psychiatrist in San Diego (they will put you on a waitlist and forget about you unless you're calling them daily about cancellations), and if you want to see anybody who isn't your GP you're going to be waiting months. Actually feels like they've gotten worse about actually seeing doctors in recent years, but it's hard to quantify.
Totally different experience in the OC area. My wife's second miscarriage was rough. The doctor who took care of her that night folllwed her progress for months and even sent a congratulations email to her when she got pregnant. Our first birth was great. I've had a top notch experience myself too.
Btw ... California is an awesome state
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/350789-california-legislature-passes-bill-requiring-presidential-candidates-to
The California State Assembly on Thursday passed a bill that would require all presidential candidates to release their tax returns prior to being placed on the state’s ballot.
The bill, called the Presidential Tax Transparency and Accountability Act, passed the state assembly on a 42-18 vote and will now head to the state Senate for a concurrence vote before being sent to the Governor for his signature.
By blackace Go To Postyou forgot Russia
.........you right I did
Since nuclear war hasn't killed the western seaboard, Japan or SK I'll leave some morning Schadenfreude.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/burn-my-maga-hat_us_59bb4dc9e4b0edff971ac966?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
A funny video and some choice tweets for your morning coffee.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/burn-my-maga-hat_us_59bb4dc9e4b0edff971ac966?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Many one-time supporters of President Donald Trump are so red hot over his possible immigration deal with Democratic leaders that they’re burning their “Make America Great Again” hats.
The angry right-wingers shared images of the charred caps on social media under the #burnmyMAGAhat hashtag. They also referred to the president as #AmnestyDon and some even called for him to be impeached.
A funny video and some choice tweets for your morning coffee.
I for one am shocked that Trump has gone back on his word and screwed former partners. Nothing in his personal background could have predicted this.
(However, this is something to keep in mind for any Dems who might be tempted to deal with him too)
(However, this is something to keep in mind for any Dems who might be tempted to deal with him too)
Rally today in Richmond at the Robert E. Lee statue. They don't know how many will attend but the city is getting ready.
Here's the site:
Here's the site:
Looks like Bernie's Single Payer proposal has galvanized Republicans around Cassidy-Graham.
"Marketplace of Ideas" has its costs guys.
"Marketplace of Ideas" has its costs guys.
Legislative priority my guy. Bernie (and every other lawmaker who signed on for his bill, they don't get a pass on this) stumping for single payer means Republicans have no choice but to respond. Whereas a month ago they would've been resigned to failure on repeal, now it's an existential threat to their donor class, and they don't have an out.
What substantive difference does it make for the Left that he has to introduce this bill now rather than Oct. 1st?
What substantive difference does it make for the Left that he has to introduce this bill now rather than Oct. 1st?
By KingGondo Go To PostDamn, now it's Bernie's fault that Republicans are reprehensible pieces of shit?He started it, give him credit. See if he (or anyone on the left) has the balls to fight everyone
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostLegislative priority my guy. Bernie (and every other lawmaker who signed on for his bill, they don't get a pass on this) stumping for single payer means Republicans have no choice but to respond. Whereas a month ago they would've been resigned to failure on repeal, now it's an existential threat to their donor class, and they don't have an out.I don't believe for a second that ACA repeal or tax cuts had ever fallen off the Republican agenda. It's all that the donor class cares about. "No choice" is bullshit and the language of victim blaming.
What substantive difference does it make for the Left that he has to introduce this bill now rather than Oct. 1st?
Some Republicans might use Medicare for All as an excuse to support whichever evil mutant bill is now up, but that's what they want and what they believe in. I don't believe that Bernie holding back his bill would have changed things.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostLegislative priority my guy. Bernie (and every other lawmaker who signed on for his bill, they don't get a pass on this) stumping for single payer means Republicans have no choice but to respond. Whereas a month ago they would've been resigned to failure on repeal, now it's an existential threat to their donor class, and they don't have an out.
What substantive difference does it make for the Left that he has to introduce this bill now rather than Oct. 1st?
Basically. I asked "why not after the midterms" several pages ago. Graham is out there basically saying, "if we do nothing, get ready for socialized medicine!" Gondo isn't wrong in that, they would try regardless, but we didn't need to give them their fall back until after this legislative year IMO. Now they can use that instead of, "We needed to kick you off your insurance to save money so we can give it to the rich via tax cuts".
McCain has already given himself an out too. He's already said he wants a bipartisan bill that goes to hearing etc, but that if the governor of AZ supports it, he will as well.
If this things comes up, I have a feeling it's getting through.
By KingGondo Go To PostI don't believe for a second that ACA repeal or tax cuts had ever fallen off the Republican agenda. It's all that the donor class cares about. "No choice" is bullshit and the language of victim blaming.
Some Republicans might use Medicare for All as an excuse to support whichever evil mutant bill is now up, but that's what they want and what they believe in. I don't believe that Bernie holding back his bill would have changed things.
But now you have concrete details as outlined in his Medicare for all bill rather than his 8 page proposal from the campaign that could've been hand waved away.
Again, why give them ammunition for the next two weeks when you literally lose nothing by introducing this bill three weeks later?