Even if I migrate to the new Gaf forum, I hadn't heard about this place and could see myself hanging here a bit too. It's cool.
By Illucio Go To PostThe difficulty is that a lot of people will have a hard time finding similar news, reportings, review megathreads, and so on all in one place in a neat and tighty reading format.I have not been on GAF for years and yet somehow stayed in the loop... life goes on.
Easier said then done.
I actually didn't remember this forum's name, lol, I had to go to the Steam GAF community and thankfully it was mentioned there.
Now I remembering there was also a Brazilian bootleg NeoGAF! I wonder what happend with that forum.
Now I remembering there was also a Brazilian bootleg NeoGAF! I wonder what happend with that forum.
By Majin Boo Go To PostDamn, i totally forgot about all the people trying to access NeoGaf, seeing the maintenance message and leaving again without knowing what happened. I only found this site after using google to see what happened, accessing a cached version of the Off Topic area and looking through the "Gaming forums like GAF" thread, I doubt many people will do that…Yeah. Had no idea what happened, and that's the only way I finally found someplace that some of us had gone to as well, by google and a cached version of one of the off-topic or TV show threads. :)
By blackace Go To PostI have not been on GAF for years and yet somehow stayed in the loop… life goes on.Well yeah, but you're a pro at leaving GAF.
This is the first time I've done it.
By NexusCell Go To PostI'm not saying it was necessarily the reason the site was nuked, but I would argue that ban culture cultivated a large part of GAFs negative reputation and contributed to accusations of being an "echo chamber".
All forums are echo chambers, because it's not like NeoFAG, VOAT, 4chan, and others are not. Most of GAF's negative reputation is powered by folks who prefer/are now members of the aforementioned forums where they can say what they want. The fact that so many folks see that as not being an echo chamber or "politically loaded" or whatever is an issue within itself and is a case of a lack of reflection on any other bubble. Folks look at GAF as a bubble but on the same sleeve don't believe those other forums are "bubbles" mostly because you can say what you want. But here's the thing, if you go into any of those forums and speak out against it...you'll be banned...just like how people complain about GAF.
I always ask folks this question and I never get decent answers. If you had the choice between GAF style moderation where the less represented are somewhat protected versus say a NeoGAF where everything in terms of thread content is the same but you can call folks: niggers, faggots, bitches, whores, sluts, cucks, kikes, chinks, gooks, doxx them, yell blood and soil, talk about white supremacist and how glorious it will be to be an ethnostate, how the spics were taking your jobs, and all of that with no blowback, which one would you choose?
There can be no middle ground between the two types of forums, it will give off the illusion of fairness but in reality much like the American Experiment, the smallest voices will be the ones who suffer the most.
GAF moderation was pretty terrible, and as others have said the site definitely started going downhill in the last year at an neckbreaking rate accelerated rate. One of the biggest issues imo was moderators purposefully letting threads derail way too long so these "dogpiles" were a lot more frequent. There are two schools of thought on how this started happening and I'll post the ones I've read from various subGAFs (by being in their discords)
PopGAF, GIrlGAF, AsianGAF believe the site went downhill once Bish left because he was the only one culling threads and the like before that kind of thing could take off because the other mods were "scared" to really step in and do anything substantial and would only ban folks after they were dogpiled. Apparently in the case of PopGAF, Bish was pretty big on wanting them to stay and Lore wasn't too keen on them due to many folks complaining about how much they posted their gifs in random threads. Lore's word is law so PopGAF was destroyed, I imagine the sportsGAF have a similar view perhaps.
Gaming side believe the site went downhill because of Bish and that once he was gone the site was doing much better (which given the fact Bish was more heavily involved with gaming side bans, I can see their point), their issue was that OT-GAF kept leaking into Gaming-GAF and they were getting tired of it (GirlGAF would argue that Bish was the main one who was keeping the spills in check).
Many folks on GAF wanted to ignore racial/political/gender talk because it was distracting for them but there was no way to do so, to them everything was becoming too "PC" and politically charged which made the site "toxic" which led to the demise of the forum. But many people seem to want to ignore that any type of forum that has diversity will always move in the direction of the politics of the country where majority of the posters are from, this cannot be avoided. The only way you can really "ignore it" is if you either ban any political talk (which would be ironic given how folks complain about freedom of speech) or your forum is pretty homogenous in not only racial/sexual orientation/gender make up, but also in political make up and given the fact that in American politics conservatives tend to fall in line way more often than liberals you're only getting that on a forum that leans heavily conservative. This is exactly why places like VOAT, 4chan, NeoFAG, etc members think they have a truly "free" and equal forum, because nearly everyone there leans the same way, and/or tolerates the vapidness that somehow coincidentally comes with conservative leaning forums (you know the sexism, racism, homophobia, islamophobia).
Once Trump got elected GAF's structure wasn't suited to handle it, many folks weren't keen on seeing "both sides" of many issues and arbitrary lines were drawn. Me personally, I'm not trying to meet folks in the middle or give benefit of the doubt over many things especially politics since American conservativism at it's core is rooted in racism in every facet of it's ideology. But despite that I was never big on calling folks Nazi just for being conservatives but I sure as hell wasn't going out of my way to debate them more than I had to. I definitely think folks were way too quick to start folks Nazi but at the same time we are in an era in which Nazism is considered a mere "difference in political opinion" with a President who says there are many fine people in said movement. Of course when your forum has a sizable minority community who are very much affected by this new-wave it's to be expected that many aren't going to give an inch to it and will hastly label folks who sympathise in even the slightest with Nazism.
We're talking about groups of people who are told to be the bigger person and meet folks half way and are lectured about how MLK does things on daily throughout various forums of media that middle ground is the way to go (which is how we ended up in this situation in the first place but I digress), who are constantly checked and told they need to do impossible things and be the harbingers of change and do all the heavy lifting, while the "other side" are held to much lower standards (again a microcosm of America itself when you think about it) and are basically allowed to do whatever with the most minimal of pushback.
Is there a way to really cut down on the issues GAF developed in the last year? One can make arguments that there is, and that there isn't. Ban political talk is a bandaid solution, but you'll more than likely bleed off minority voices due to the current poltical landscape of America at large.
By Thunder Monkey Go To PostWell yeah, but you're a pro at leaving GAF.figs in my rectum, right?
This is the first time I've done it.
Also blackace miught not have been on gaf for years but I sure do remember that name vividly
Angelus is so smart, I'll stay on whatever forum he goes to lol.
By Majin Boo Go To PostDamn, i totally forgot about all the people trying to access NeoGaf, seeing the maintenance message and leaving again without knowing what happened. I only found this site after using google to see what happened, accessing a cached version of the Off Topic area and looking through the "Gaming forums like GAF" thread, I doubt many people will do that…
Gaf was trending on twitter yesterday and i spent over an hour reading through all the " Ha Ha" tweets trying to find the discord. I was strictly gaming except for movie, tv, and music but OT must have been one hell of a sub forum...
By Angelus Errare Go To PostI always ask folks this question and I never get decent answers. If you had the choice between GAF style moderation where the less represented are somewhat protected versus say a NeoGAF where everything in terms of thread content is the same but you can call folks: niggers, faggots, bitches, whores, sluts, cucks, kikes, chinks, gooks, doxx them, yell blood and soil, talk about white supremacist and how glorious it will be to be an ethnostate, how the spics were taking your jobs, and all of that with no blowback, which one would you choose?I think the right answer is neither, which you seem to feel as well based on the rest of you post. One being objectively more tolerable and "better" than the other doesn't exclude it from being critically flawed in its own right. But I do sympathize with the tendency for people to narrow vision GAF and not realize just how shitty corners of the internet, often with large populations, can be.
Love ya Angelus.
I actually really enjoyed the brain melting that happened when people realized that MLK got tired of the bullshit from the white moderate. Half the time they'd duck out of the thread in an instant. They'd post one of his conciliatory "Turn the other cheek" moments. One of the badass members of black or reasonably woke GAF would point out MLK got pretty fucking pissed about the inaction of their supposed allies.
I was a quiet reader of a multitude of BlackGAF threads. You all helped shape my political views... and it wasn't like I was a kid when I joined. I just didn't come close to understanding what my privilege meant. And though I was a firm believer in Socialized Medicine and a basic income when I joined, I found out that those views are things to work towards. What really needs to be worked on today is our complete and utter inaction on some Jim Crow era bullshit.
On that underlying inequity inherent in this system.
So GAF was fucking a miraculous site if only because I got to hear minority voices unafraid of airing their grievances.
I never got to thank you guys for that because I always just figured GAF would be there.
I actually really enjoyed the brain melting that happened when people realized that MLK got tired of the bullshit from the white moderate. Half the time they'd duck out of the thread in an instant. They'd post one of his conciliatory "Turn the other cheek" moments. One of the badass members of black or reasonably woke GAF would point out MLK got pretty fucking pissed about the inaction of their supposed allies.
I was a quiet reader of a multitude of BlackGAF threads. You all helped shape my political views... and it wasn't like I was a kid when I joined. I just didn't come close to understanding what my privilege meant. And though I was a firm believer in Socialized Medicine and a basic income when I joined, I found out that those views are things to work towards. What really needs to be worked on today is our complete and utter inaction on some Jim Crow era bullshit.
On that underlying inequity inherent in this system.
So GAF was fucking a miraculous site if only because I got to hear minority voices unafraid of airing their grievances.
I never got to thank you guys for that because I always just figured GAF would be there.
I do understand what you're trying to say, and it's well-articulated, but I don't think you're going to convince many people with childish names like neofag and it seems pretty out of place in the post, honestly.
By wsoxfan1214 Go To PostI do understand what you're trying to say, and it's well-articulated, but I don't think you're going to convince many people with childish names like neofag and it seems pretty out of place in the post, honestly.Lol.
NeoFAG is a site.
Yeah...
They probably thought they were being clever too...
Some people are looking for a site with the content level/amount of a Gaf but with no behavioral restrictions, which you generally won't get because people with that kind of initiative/talent are probably not going to hang around a place with no standards.
That's an actual forum.
By wsoxfan1214 Go To PostI do understand what you're trying to say, and it's well-articulated, but I don't think you're going to convince many people with childish names like neofag and it seems pretty out of place in the post, honestly.
That's an actual forum.
So an snes edition 3ds xl for NA was just secretly announced.
http://slaent.com/thread/1245812/
http://slaent.com/thread/1245812/
I enjoyed + spent the most time reading The Black Culture Thread, GirlGAF, and PoliGAF. Never had much issue w/the hopes for more representation (gender, race, etc.) in titles; they seemingly took up 10 - 15% of the Gaming Discussion, at the most. With the other 85 - 90% being dedicated to Bloodborne, Dark Souls 2 - yay or nay?, Games you regretted buying, Final Fantasy 6, 8, and 9 are the best/SE has lost its way w/13 trilogy + 15, Turn-based systems are ancient/I am sick of ARPG, Is there a backlash to AAA development?, Any MMORPG worth playing nowadays?, Devil May Cry 5 is coming any day now!, and any other matter under the sun that you could envision. Rambling here, but I don’t know, I wouldn’t want to be a Mod on any site; does NOT seem particularly fulfilling or joyful to be inundated w/account suicides, criticisms, doxxing threats, etc.
By wsoxfan1214 Go To PostI do understand what you're trying to say, and it's well-articulated, but I don't think you're going to convince many people with childish names like neofag and it seems pretty out of place in the post, honestly.
NeoFAG was a hatesite that sprung up a couple years ago on Reddit, mostly bashing evilore, mods, and prominent members of NeoGAF. It was finally banned from Reddit for doxxing and harassment, and those determined folks in all their candor and grace set up shop on VOAT to continue their sad circle jerk.
By Angelus Errare Go To PostGood shitMan this was amazing.
By Angelus Errare Go To PostWe're talking about groups of people who are told to be the bigger person and meet folks half way and are lectured about how MLK does things on daily throughout various forums of media that middle ground is the way to go (which is how we ended up in this situation in the first place but I digress), who are constantly checked and told they need to do impossible things and be the harbingers of change and do all the heavy lifting, while the "other side" are held to much lower standards (again a microcosm of America itself when you think about it) and are basically allowed to do whatever with the most minimal of pushback.
Is there a way to really cut down on the issues GAF developed in the last year? One can make arguments that there is, and that there isn't. Ban political talk is a bandaid solution, but you'll more than likely bleed off minority voices due to the current poltical landscape of America at large.
This is where I was at as well. If I had the hear about Daryl Davis one more time I was just done.
And the thing that I always noticed is that there were a few people who could step in to threads, derail and troll the shit out of it, and not eat a ban. It took like 6 months before one of the biggest trolls was even temp banned. NeoGaf's moderation was always weird and wishy washy, and it barely functioned the last year. I assume it had a lot to do with who was cozy with the mods.
By Trey Go To PostNeoFAG was a hatesite that sprung up a couple years ago on Reddit, mostly bashing evilore, mods, and prominent members of NeoGAF. It was finally banned from Reddit for doxxing and harassment, and those determined folks in all their candor and grace set up shop on VOAT to continue their sad circle jerk.Ahah.
That's why it seemed so out of place in the post. Thankfully I was blissfully unaware of that bullshit then.
By Thunder Monkey Go To PostSo GAF was fucking a miraculous site if only because I got to hear minority voices unafraid of airing their grievances.
I never got to thank you guys for that because I always just figured GAF would be there.
As a long-time GAF lurker who couldn't get an account due to the paid email policy, I want to echo this. I grew up in a tiny bible belt community and was/am still very naiive; being exposed to minority voices there openly discussing their experiences and knowledge, while jarring at first as a sheltered kid from a hillbilly town, was paramount in opening my eyes to things I'd probably never understand otherwise, and I'm grateful for it.
Amazing write-up by Angelus btw
By Ogliarchenemy Go To PostThis is where I was at as well. If I had the hear about Daryl Davis one more time I was just done.Its really not that difficult to have stricter and more even standards on dog-piling, ban-baiting, discourse, and thread-jacking. There were periods where GAF by and large got things right.
And the thing that I always noticed is that there were a few people who could step in to threads, derail and troll the shit out of it, and not eat a ban. It took like 6 months before one of the biggest trolls was even temp banned. NeoGaf's moderation was always weird and wishy washy, and it barely functioned the last year. I assume it had a lot to do with who was cozy with the mods.
You can either loosen standards and let the community self-police(a potential problem if the culture isn't there to do it right) or you can be more even-handed and objective in your stricter moderation standards, but wildly uneven and strict is not a really good long-term formula for community success. Its basically how places end up in self-deteriorating echo chambers inadvertently. And GAF was well on its way down that path.
I think you need some heavy-handed moderation depending on the contents of the post and rules put in place by the ToS. You also need mods that will step in and actually moderate the site more when shit hits the fan. While I would love to keep things and access more open, to actually have some sort of discourse on an internet forum, a level of moderation is needed to keep things in check. Otherwise, your site becomes about as dysfunctional as reddit at best. Regardless of intentions, subject, or level of care applied to any forum, people who seem to only exist to either troll or shit on anything will flock and will either destroy the site or take hold at he roots and never leave.
Reddit had a problem with this and suffered some backlash after groups advocating pure hate were removed because "freedom of speech" is a thing. It's not even about that at all because those making the argument are only seeing how far they can push that line and how much we are willing to give them.
I'd say if you want shit to flow, find a place like 4chan or reddit or any other number of sites. If you want (or I guess wanted) a place to have some level of discourse without it devolving into racial slurs, you need somewhere with good moderation to weed out the chaff while also allowing for a level of discussion. GAF was far from great in that regard, but it was at least moderated well enough for the time I was there.
Reddit had a problem with this and suffered some backlash after groups advocating pure hate were removed because "freedom of speech" is a thing. It's not even about that at all because those making the argument are only seeing how far they can push that line and how much we are willing to give them.
I'd say if you want shit to flow, find a place like 4chan or reddit or any other number of sites. If you want (or I guess wanted) a place to have some level of discourse without it devolving into racial slurs, you need somewhere with good moderation to weed out the chaff while also allowing for a level of discussion. GAF was far from great in that regard, but it was at least moderated well enough for the time I was there.
The Opencritic guy has just said that they're waiting to see how ResetEra does before launching their forum.
By Angelus Errare Go To PostGAF moderation was pretty terrible, and as others have said the site definitely started going downhill in the last year at an neckbreaking rate accelerated rate.
In the past 8 months, for me, the Gaming side had become very difficult to read and wade through. I voiced a similar complaint in a few threads over the past year that arguments had started to devolve into System Wars level of nonsense and shit-flinging. OT had become a Trump wasteland every time I clicked over, threads were useful for catching up on news but I had almost no interest in contributing aside from a post here or there.
Excellent post, Angelus, its really made me realize the amount of times I had sighed and clicked elsewhere on my browser or phone in the past year. In the past two days I have definitely realized how ignorant I was to the actions of those in power on forum I called home, to the communities whose contributions I enjoyed (though was always a little too anxious to contribute heavily into). I never realized what had happened to POP-GAF, I used to roll my eyes sarcastically every time they slowed my browser down with their GIFs. I mentioned this earlier, but I never knew how much of the shaft NBA-GAF had been given, obviously this forum is a result of that.
By kulapik Go To PostThe Opencritic guy has just said that they're waiting to see how ResetEra does before launching their forum.
I mean, if you can get even half the folks from GAF in one place, you'd be killing it in ad money. It makes sense that people are trying to capitalize on this opportunity.
By Thunder Monkey Go To PostWell yeah, but you're a pro at leaving GAF.It was the first time I done it too..
This is the first time I've done it.
Places like NeoFAG is why a lot of the stuff surrounding GAF's leadership was an open secret. A good amount of folks knew about it, but people on NeoFAG made it an obsession and collated the data just to mass post it in suicide threads with little context. So it would of course be locked and deleted and anyone who saw the stuff just assumed it was mindless drivel from angry children who were upset they were cast from NeoGAF. And if you ever had the misfortune to look at NeoFAG, you'd see it was nothing but concentrated malice, so it would be easy to dismiss anything they said. And that's what the mods did. Delete and move on, and charge it to the game.
While I understand why PopGAF would be upset at their treatment, it was awful when they spilled out into other threads. I just didn't need to see that many Mariah Carey gifs per day.
By Ogliarchenemy Go To PostI mean, if you can get even half the folks from GAF in one place, you'd be killing it in ad money. It makes sense that people are trying to capitalize on this opportunity.50,000+ members? Yeah, someone is looking to welcome that number w/open arms.
Dang... Saw sprsk tweet about the 8-4 podcast. Any of y'all listen to it here? Should I make a thread?
By kulapik Go To PostThe Opencritic guy has just said that they're waiting to see how ResetEra does before launching their forum.
Good.
By kulapik Go To PostThe Opencritic guy has just said that they're waiting to see how ResetEra does before launching their forum.
So is ResetEra going to be a rebooted gaf?
Also, I’m a web developer and I would be happy to contribute to NeoNeoGAF if there are people developing it.
By Angelus Errare Go To PostAh there it is.Dammit. I was pretty optimistic when I engaged with him. I just didn't know his own "sympathetic views" amounted to "Consider that every single black person is inferior, and I know this because I'm not black and I feel like it's true"
Honestly the majority of the neogaf userbase was not the problem in regards to toxicity in recent years.
It was the small mobs of users that took it upon themselves to bait, dogpille and straight out insult other users with a different opinion.
For example users like Slavyen who was a popular poster in the black community threads.
Him and his entourage of users would stalk the OT's and gaming incensantly whenever a "political" fueled thread poped up and once they zeroed in on someone they would bait and insult them until some mod came in and got rid of him.
The culture of fear that forum cultivated in recent years is no fucking joke, last night when the forum was on, but no moderation, asside from the 1 or 2 dick joke threads, a lot of member accounts vented this exact sentiment.
It was the small mobs of users that took it upon themselves to bait, dogpille and straight out insult other users with a different opinion.
For example users like Slavyen who was a popular poster in the black community threads.
Him and his entourage of users would stalk the OT's and gaming incensantly whenever a "political" fueled thread poped up and once they zeroed in on someone they would bait and insult them until some mod came in and got rid of him.
The culture of fear that forum cultivated in recent years is no fucking joke, last night when the forum was on, but no moderation, asside from the 1 or 2 dick joke threads, a lot of member accounts vented this exact sentiment.
By SuperEpicMan Go To PostSo is ResetEra going to be a rebooted gaf?If you decide to stick around here Reilo needs help.
Also, I’m a web developer and I would be happy to contribute to NeoNeoGAF if there are people developing it.
http://slaent.com/thread/79658/page/44/post/1234188/
This is why sites should have Angelus and avoid people like Slayven and Gordon Shumway. One of them actually has thoughts and positions and awareness and tries to educate about traditions. The others are slavyen.
By SuperEpicMan Go To PostSo is ResetEra going to be a rebooted gaf?Contribute here!
Also, I’m a web developer and I would be happy to contribute to NeoNeoGAF if there are people developing it.
By NaughtyRskl Go To PostHonestly the majority of the neogaf userbase was not the problem in regards to toxicity in recent years.I personally was glad Slayven was such a warrior because a) he was never fucking wrong, and b) racists *should* be afraid.
It was the small mobs of users that took it upon themselves to bait, dogpille and straight out insult other users with a different opinion.
For example users like Slavyen who was a popular poster in the black community threads.
Him and his entourage of users would stalk the OT's and gaming incensantly whenever a "political" fueled thread poped up and once they zeroed in on someone they would bait and insult them until some mod came in and got rid of him.
The culture of fear that forum cultivated in recent years is no fucking joke, last night when the forum was on, but no moderation, asside from the 1 or 2 dick joke threads, a lot of member accounts vented this exact sentiment.
By uncelestial Go To PostWhile I understand why PopGAF would be upset at their treatment, it was awful when they spilled out into other threads. I just didn't need to see that many Mariah Carey gifs per day.Yeah PopGaf basically committed community suicide by posting way too many gifs as if it was some kind of necessary bodily function.
By kulapik Go To PostThe Opencritic guy has just said that they're waiting to see how ResetEra does before launching their forum.
Excellent decision, this should avoid further fragmentation.
By joefu Go To PostDang… Saw sprsk tweet about the 8-4 podcast. Any of y'all listen to it here? Should I make a thread?Love those guys. Feel free to make a thread as they deserve exposure on just about any and every gaming discussion forum out there to boost their outreach.
Yeah I've never seen the mentioned posters do anything wrong
But somehow they have legions of haters lmfao
But somehow they have legions of haters lmfao
By SuperEpicMan Go To PostSo is ResetEra going to be a rebooted gaf?If you're up to it, Reilo is looking for developers to help with Slaent.
Also, I’m a web developer and I would be happy to contribute to NeoNeoGAF if there are people developing it.
http://slaent.com/thread/839848/page/10/post/1234186/
By joefu Go To PostDang… Saw sprsk tweet about the 8-4 podcast. Any of y'all listen to it here? Should I make a thread?Topics worth discussing?
do it.
By uncelestial Go To PostI personally was glad Slayven was such a warrior because a) he was never fucking wrong, and b) racists *should* be afraid.
Slayven was never never wrong because all he did was quote people smarter than than him.
By Nelo Ice Go To PostIf you decide to stick around here Reilo needs help.
http://slaent.com/thread/79658/page/44/post/1234188/
By ashep Go To PostContribute here!
I will take a look and see if I can contribute in anyway 😊
one of the weirder little parts of this whole thing is how much resentment had been built up toward evilore by the community over time. it's kind of hard to find people who ever had a good word to say about him, even prior to this.
By blackace Go To PostI have not been on GAF for years and yet somehow stayed in the loop… life goes on.The amount of people that quoted you on the last page while being completely oblivious to your history with the site was cute. To me anyway.