By Random Ass Username Go To PostI see a bunch of hand wrining and excuses. And once again no real discussion of actual things I just brought up the democrats imposed on people. Glib shit in here again. Can you guys explain the compromises there? What the point was??
By reilo Go To PostJust because the Republicans behave in a repulsive and detrimental way to society as a whole doesn't mean that we need to mimic such behavior because we believe to be on the right side of a coin.
Compromise is a core tenant of a representative democracy. Looking at the GOP and their handling of the bills they pass as a way to success is how democracy gets demolished.
Elect better leaders. Educate to improve our voters. Don't do what the other guys doing it because you think it's the only way to success. It just means you are repeating and encouraging a doomed cycle.
By reilo Go To PostExcuse you?I mean.... the stuff they compromise on isn't the stuff you should compromise on lol
Goes back to how I was telling Fender how dems would rather compromise to/with the right than their own base or farther left.
A teacher of mine said you can find the gist of the Missouri compromise in anything, and I'm thinking that's still truer than ever. I also believe more American people are republican by nature, but they simply are put off by ineptitude, the blatant social back handedness, and chest bumping.
You take away the assholery of the right and what would the dems even have to talk about?
Dude that's all hollow shit that doesn't say anything when we're legit trying to criticize a party that went from getting the Civil Rights Act passed to doing their own dirty against folks via Welfare Reform and Three Strikes. Again, you're not telling me what the compromise was there. What the dems stand for if they just create their own institutionalized racist classist legislation.
Again someone here, actually tackle why the fuck the dems put forth and passed the shit the legislation they have. What actual compromising or fighting was done on their end. I keep hearing compromise. It's not compromise if it's always the same fucking side capitulated to. It's cowardice.
Again someone here, actually tackle why the fuck the dems put forth and passed the shit the legislation they have. What actual compromising or fighting was done on their end. I keep hearing compromise. It's not compromise if it's always the same fucking side capitulated to. It's cowardice.
I like how random basically just came in and proved my point. What a bunch of hot air. I'm Gondo's enemy and Random thinks I'm a conservative lol.
This would be an accurate statement. It's also not in line with your previous statement that "politics isn't a game of compromise"
That being said. You do have a valid point. Obama spent 8 years reaching across the isle in good faith for nothing. Compromise is only possible if the other side is willing to meet somewhere in the middle. If they're not, there's no point in trying. So in that respect I do hope any future dems in congress will be more willing to use the same tactics that the republicans did, understanding they won't meet in the middle ahead of time.
This is not how we should be functioning as a government though. Hyper partisanship isn't ideal.
We can get something and compromise with the right or nothing and appease Random. The ACA was a compromise. A good one.
By KingGondo Go To PostCompromise is a tool to be used to advance your policy goals, not a goal in and of itself.
.
This would be an accurate statement. It's also not in line with your previous statement that "politics isn't a game of compromise"
That being said. You do have a valid point. Obama spent 8 years reaching across the isle in good faith for nothing. Compromise is only possible if the other side is willing to meet somewhere in the middle. If they're not, there's no point in trying. So in that respect I do hope any future dems in congress will be more willing to use the same tactics that the republicans did, understanding they won't meet in the middle ahead of time.
This is not how we should be functioning as a government though. Hyper partisanship isn't ideal.
By DY_nasty Go To PostI mean…. the stuff they compromise on isn't the stuff you should compromise on lol
Goes back to how I was telling Fender how dems would rather compromise to/with the right than their own base or farther left.
We can get something and compromise with the right or nothing and appease Random. The ACA was a compromise. A good one.
Striving to strike a common ground with people of different backgrounds, beliefs and societal outlooks in life shouldn't be met with such vitriolic and labeling of "oh, you're my fucking enemy now" type of attitude. That's what Republicans do.
The core problem that I am trying to get to here is that the GOP's behavior and hijacking of democracy isn't something that the Democrats should be doing because it's the only path to success just because you believe you are on the right side of the same coin. The actual, proper, better and long-term solution is to elect better leaders that don't behave in that sense and have better convictions and actual morals. That doesn't just include wholesale replacing the GOP, but also electing better Democrats as well.
So, no, I will not buy that we just need to do what the GOP is doing as some sort of path to success. Replace the whole goddamn bunch with people that have better morals than the ones that came before them.
The core problem that I am trying to get to here is that the GOP's behavior and hijacking of democracy isn't something that the Democrats should be doing because it's the only path to success just because you believe you are on the right side of the same coin. The actual, proper, better and long-term solution is to elect better leaders that don't behave in that sense and have better convictions and actual morals. That doesn't just include wholesale replacing the GOP, but also electing better Democrats as well.
So, no, I will not buy that we just need to do what the GOP is doing as some sort of path to success. Replace the whole goddamn bunch with people that have better morals than the ones that came before them.
Again. The GOPs assholery, ineptitude, and borderline draconian social stances are the issue more than anything else.
If they weren't dicks and constantly trying to run the score up, a lot of democrats wouldn't even have a leg to stand on 😂
If they weren't dicks and constantly trying to run the score up, a lot of democrats wouldn't even have a leg to stand on 😂
By Random Ass Username Go To PostI keep asking what dems stand for so I can ask earnest questions but it's almost like I can't even get answers on that.
This is a stupid question. The Democratic platform is easily searchable. At an individual basis there's less cohesion on the left because our constituency is more diverse. We're not a monolithic voting bloc
I'm still waiting to be told what the Dems stand for.
By Fenderputty Go To PostThis is a stupid question. The Democratic platform is easily searchable. At an individual basis there's less cohesion on the left because our constituency is more diverse. We're not a monolithic voting blocAll these fucking non-answers again and excuses.
"Better democrats"
Sorry you're encroaching upon purity test territory now
That's a no-no
There should be only one type of Democrat, and that's the best Democrat, not better Democrat, unless you can have better than the best, which would be better than Bernie Sanders, which is impossible.
Sorry you're encroaching upon purity test territory now
That's a no-no
There should be only one type of Democrat, and that's the best Democrat, not better Democrat, unless you can have better than the best, which would be better than Bernie Sanders, which is impossible.
By DY_nasty Go To PostAgain. The GOPs assholery, ineptitude, and borderline draconian social stances are the issue more than anything else.I don't disagree, that's why I'm saying replace the whole bunch. This focusing on "compromise is the devil" is only true insofar with who's at the helm. This idea that we should never compromise is hilarious and completely antithetical to a representative democracy.
If they weren't dicks and constantly trying to run the score up, a lot of democrats wouldn't even have a leg to stand on 😂
By Random Ass Username Go To PostAll these fucking non-answers again and excuses.
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
By Smoke Dogg Go To Post"Better democrats"
Sorry you're encroaching upon purity test territory now
That's a no-no
There should be only one type of Democrat, and that's the best Democrat, not better Democrat, unless you can have better than the best, which would be better than Bernie Sanders, which is impossible.
Bernie Sanders doesn't win Doug Jones seat.
I don't give a fuck about PR they put out. Dems went from Civil Rights Act and Great Society to Three Strikes and Welfare Reform, which you both seem to conveniently hop, skip and jump over. But compromise. lol. We're in different times. Or whatever excuse is heralded despite the "deep hyperpartisan" and shit time that was the 60s with ever more staunch racists. Keep making excuses for the Dems.
By reilo Go To PostI don't disagree, that's why I'm saying replace the whole bunch. This focusing on "compromise is the devil" is only true insofar with who's at the helm. This idea that we should never compromise is hilarious and completely antithetical to a representative democracy.They're never getting replaced - instead we'll either get the lesser of two evils argument or the little by little, just have faith argument
I've been open about wanting to leave the country for the past 8 years. I don't want to be around on the day that American complacency capsizes.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostI don't give a fuck about PR they put out. Dems went from Civil Rights Act and Great Society to Three Strikes and Welfare Reform, which you both seem to conveniently hop, skip and jump over. But compromise. lol. We're in different times. Or whatever excuse is heralded despite the "deep hyperpartisan" and shit time that was the 60s with ever more staunch racists. Keep making excuses for the Dems.
1990's dems could have just capitulated and let republicans control the entire decade. If you think a dem was winning in the 90's who wasn't "tough on crime" or "welfare" you're being intentionally obtuse to make some lame platitude. You reference points in history and remove all historical context. For shame.
By DY_nasty Go To PostThey're never getting replaced - instead we'll either get the lesser of two evils argument or the little by little, just have faith argumentYou already know my stance on that and I'll be out of here hopefully before you even lol
I've been open about wanting to leave the country for the past 8 years. I don't want to be around on the day that American complacency capsizes.
I'm just making a purely academic argument and asking that we should strive for better, not the same tactics just with whatever politically aligned representatives you associate with. The whole thing is backwards.
Ultimately, it's on the electorate to find better representatives. I have NFI who those people are going forward.
By Fenderputty Go To Post1990's dems could have just capitulated and let republicans control the entire decade. If you think a dem was winning in the 90's who wasn't "tough on crime" or "welfare" you're being intentionally obtuse to make some lame platitude. You reference points in history and remove all historical context. For shame.
You just encapsulated why democrats aren't shit. Congrats on epitomizing the entire problem of letting folks off the hook for deplorable shit.
By Fenderputty Go To PostBernie Sanders doesn't win Doug Jones seat.Black women voters would have elected Bernie Sanders over Roy Moore.
Roy Moore and black women are the one-two punch that got Doug Jones that seat.
You're telling me that Alabama is a special type of special that would elect Doug Jones over Bernie Sanders?
By Fenderputty Go To Post1990's dems could have just capitulated and let republicans control the entire decade. If you think a dem was winning in the 90's who wasn't "tough on crime" or "welfare" you're being intentionally obtuse to make some lame platitude. You reference points in history and remove all historical context. For shame.Some "lame platitude" is why dems are always looking for votes at the last minute these days
"Our racism was okay because politics and it was less racist than what would have been their racism."
K. 2020 gonna be fun.
K. 2020 gonna be fun.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostYou just encapsulated why democrats aren't shit. Congrats on epitomizing the entire problem of letting folks off the hook for deplorable shit.
Intentionally obtuse it is! It sure makes for some quippy quips though. Bravo!
I'm not sure why your referencing things the dems did in the past when talking about what they represent now anyway. Which is my whole point. The party should represent their current constituency. Constituencies change with the times! What the party wants NOW isn't the same as what the party wanted in the 90's!
I'm not excusing shit. I'm just not looking at this through the prism of a middle schooler.
It's not at all obtuse to recognize the same fucking people are still in the democratic party, at the helm, voting in congress. Don't worry though Feinstein is kicking up a fuss about mortgage caps for Bay Area's wealthy.
Yo, Fender, I love you and all, but you sound like Obama trying to be Lincoln. It ain't gonna work out for you against Republicans. But at least you're out here calling us middle schoolers. That's more than I can get out of your boy Doug Jones.
Yes I'm a middle schooler, not someone particularly tired of democrats refusing to own some latent racism and hold some L's. Instead let's keep playing that game where we hand wave discrimination and the time honored tradition of throwing marginalized groups under the bus as "politics." That logic surely wouldn't invalidate criticisms held against the current GOP. The hypocrisy abounds.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostIt's not at all obtuse to recognize the same fucking people are still in the democratic party, at the helm, voting in congress. Don't worry though Feinstein is kicking up a fuss about mortgage caps for Bay Area's wealthy.
It is obtuse to assume that the same people in congress haven't changed with their constituencies. There's some long time people in their riding off of name recognition and all (i'm not fan of Feinstein) but politicians SHOULD change. It was good that Obmama, Hillary and Bernie all shifted on gay rights when they did. Obama's hand was forced on gay rights if you remember correctly because Biden slipped up and publicly made their position clear. Likewise I would expect any dem who made it through the 90's to have supported tough on crime bills and the like because at the time that's what the constituencies wanted. Clinton did just that. She's the first person to even mention intersectionality or institutionalized racism during her run. Don't tell me Bernie pushed her that way either. It was actually Clinton's success with black voters (that and BLM) that forced Bernie to even acknowledge someone beyond the WWC in the rust belt.
Personally I would rather be called a middle schooler than a conservative but maybe that's just me. I wasn't making that implication anyway. I'm actually implying that I think you're capable of seeing things more holistically. I did say "intentionally" when saying obtuse.
And Clinton lost and dems went right back to "lol fuck women" in a heartbeat. Jones wins and goes right back to "eh" on Trump. How's Schumer and his Israel shit going? I mean I'm in a city with a rapidly rising homeless population, shortage of homes, insane rent and where's the Dems mine isn't even unique? They might want to shut Feinstein the fuck up about mortgages.
[quote author="DY_nasty" url="/thread/973014/page/208]
I've been open about wanting to leave the country for the past 8 years. I don't want to be around on the day that American complacency capsizes.[/quote]
Too late for that. The Great Recession was 9 years ago
I've been open about wanting to leave the country for the past 8 years. I don't want to be around on the day that American complacency capsizes.[/quote]
Too late for that. The Great Recession was 9 years ago
By Random Ass Username Go To PostAnd Clinton lost and dems went right back to "lol fuck women" in a heartbeat. Jones wins and goes right back to "eh" on Trump. How's Schumer and his Israel shit going? I mean I'm in a city with a rapidly rising homeless population, shortage of homes, insane rent and where's the Dems mine isn't even unique? They might want to shut Feinstein the fuck up about mortgages.
I'm not sure what Clinton losing has to so with party platform or whatever it was you were railing on about. What dems said "fuck women"? We just had a hugely progressive and popular senator resign because of women in congress. Are you even paying attention?
Jones' "eh" on trump isn't even "eh". It's only "eh" to the extreme left because to the extreme an Alabama dem should be the same as one from Vermont.
What the fuck does Israel have to do with ANYTHING in which we've talked about?
You damn right it's better to be a middle schooler than a conservative.
You can't find me one middle schooler anywhere in the country that's a conservative. If you do, says a lot about the country.
You can't find me one middle schooler anywhere in the country that's a conservative. If you do, says a lot about the country.
I also think it's funny Bernie out here taking like he wants to work with Trump on his shitty isolationist trade policy and said the same shit Jones did before the swearing in of Trump and the far left is crickets. Like he literally wants to work with Trump to end NAFTA. Total crickets.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostBlack women voters would have elected Bernie Sanders over Roy Moore.So Hows that socialist in Montana working out for you.
Roy Moore and black women are the one-two punch that got Doug Jones that seat.
You're telling me that Alabama is a special type of special that would elect Doug Jones over Bernie Sanders?
By TheHunter Go To PostSo Hows that socialist in Montana working out for you.
He like GUNS TOO
First of all, everybody wants to protect American jobs and manufacturing. It's like the one thing Trump isn't wrong about, so why wouldn't you want Bernie to have a say in that? And what socialist in Montana are you guys even talking about? Ain't nobody tripping about Montana and its one electoral vote.
And also, Bernie Sanders doesn't attack people because he's just a kind old man who wants everybody in America to have healthcare. Doug Jones doesn't attack people because he's a Democrat from Alabama.
Y'all trynna have me field questions like Sarah Huckabee Sanders out here.
And also, Bernie Sanders doesn't attack people because he's just a kind old man who wants everybody in America to have healthcare. Doug Jones doesn't attack people because he's a Democrat from Alabama.
Y'all trynna have me field questions like Sarah Huckabee Sanders out here.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostFirst of all, everybody wants to protect American jobs and manufacturing. It's like the one thing Trump isn't wrong about, so why wouldn't you want Bernie to have a say in that? And what socialist in Montana are you guys even talking about? Ain't nobody tripping about Montana and its one electoral vote.Haha
i mean... not everything trump says is retarded
opiate crisis? ok
afghanistan is bullshit? i'm down for that
protect manufacturing? same page
what everyone is doing regarding those goals is the laugh, but that can be said for damn near everyone. this isn't trump apologisming either. I just really think that scrutiny has to be passed around for any of this 'progress' talk to have weight
opiate crisis? ok
afghanistan is bullshit? i'm down for that
protect manufacturing? same page
what everyone is doing regarding those goals is the laugh, but that can be said for damn near everyone. this isn't trump apologisming either. I just really think that scrutiny has to be passed around for any of this 'progress' talk to have weight
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostFirst of all, everybody wants to protect American jobs and manufacturing. It's like the one thing Trump isn't wrong about, so why wouldn't you want Bernie to have a say in that? And what socialist in Montana are you guys even talking about? Ain't nobody tripping about Montana and its one electoral vote.
And also, Bernie Sanders doesn't attack people because he's just a kind old man who wants everybody in America to have healthcare. Doug Jones doesn't attack people because he's a Democrat from Alabama.
Y'all trynna have me field questions like Sarah Huckabee Sanders out here.
I mean show me evidence that getting rid of NAFTA would be beneficial to Americans and jobs.
Isolationist trade policy is garbage populist tripe.
Protecting US manufacturing is such an out of touch sentiment. Automation will wreck whatever globalization hasn’t
"Show me evidence"
Not gonna be your data fetcher, pleighboi
You ever heard of outsourcing? Exploitation of H1-B visas? Chinese flooding of goods serving only to undercut American production? You can read about all this shit in People magazine nowadays, you don't even need a subscription to Financial Times anymore.
As far as some people are concerned, repealing NAFTA would just be the beginning of making amends. It's pretty much common sentiment that everyone else has had a net import of jobs while America has had a net export of jobs. There's a thing called the Rust Belt, you might recall. But to you that's all out of touch, I'm not soon to forget.
Automation may be the final frontier, but will that automation be American engineered and serviced, or is there eventually gonna be a call center in India for that too?
Not gonna be your data fetcher, pleighboi
You ever heard of outsourcing? Exploitation of H1-B visas? Chinese flooding of goods serving only to undercut American production? You can read about all this shit in People magazine nowadays, you don't even need a subscription to Financial Times anymore.
As far as some people are concerned, repealing NAFTA would just be the beginning of making amends. It's pretty much common sentiment that everyone else has had a net import of jobs while America has had a net export of jobs. There's a thing called the Rust Belt, you might recall. But to you that's all out of touch, I'm not soon to forget.
Automation may be the final frontier, but will that automation be American engineered and serviced, or is there eventually gonna be a call center in India for that too?
By Smoke Dogg Go To Post"Show me evidence"Erm, burden of proof is on you if you make a definitive statement in an argument. Juuuust saying.
Not gonna be your data fetcher, pleighboi
So we're going to ignore automation/robots being the real cause for the loss of most American jobs as well as the fact these trade system are set up for America to have global "soft" power through the use of its (stable) currency and position as the global Alpha consumer of goods?
Germany somehow has a thriving manufacturing industry despite the fact that they're in a goddamn monetary union, let alone a free trade agreement. This anti-free trade myopia is seriously damning of the intellectual rigor on the left.
By reilo Go To PostErm, burden of proof is on you if you make a definitive statement in an argument. Juuuust saying.Lol. Nah, I'm good. Too much work for any discussion to be worth all that. Thanks, but no thanks. Y'all have fun with all that, though. Don't worry, no more arguments from me.
Look man, if you want to clown on the democrats clown them for shit like this:
former speaker Nancy Pelosi says that the Republican tax bill, “with stiff competition by some of the other things they have put forth, is the worst bill in the history of the United States Congress.”
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostLol. Nah, I'm good. Too much work for any discussion to be worth all that. Thanks, but no thanks. Y'all have fun with all that, though. Don't worry, no more arguments from me.Now you're off to do holiday shopping at Walmart like the rest of us, right?
By GQman2121 Go To PostNow you're off to do holiday shopping at Walmart like the rest of us, right?It's Christmas shopping, I'll have you know, and it's going to be at Costco and Aldi, and possibly Micro Center as well.