By DY_nasty Go To PostYou say that like there's no monstrous industry alongside both ends of that discussion. Its not about saving trees and protecting future generations, its about fighting the obvious old titans of energy to pave the way for a new one. That's not what makes something the party of good or whatever. Banks are whatever, no one likes them. Its when the focus shifts to them specifically and not adjacent industries that I have to wonder how much they're actually paying attention or what they truly care about.My point has been one side tries to stem the tide of corporate interests and the other jumps in bed even when it will destroy everything. Listen we can go back on forth on foreign policy, the issues of the modern military industrial complex as well as our involvement on both sides of the coin in military intervention and conflict but my point still stands, democrats are trying to fight big business. I never intended to veer into re-litigating middle east decision making.
ISIS was not 'created because we fell asleep in Aghani territory either'. Who told you that? If anything we deliberately allowed them to gain strength past a certain point to offset other forces in the region and, because this is American history, they followed suit with almost every other third party grunt force out there.
You can say all the we'llneverpeace stuff blah blah but that's not at all what this discussion is about lol. The nature of men is whatever, but lets not pretend that 8 years in the middle east under the democratic administration was somehow intended to deescalate, but was derailed by those meddling kids in ISIS. That's flatly untrue. Also those resources? Installing that trash regime in Aghanistan was hustling in the wrong direction anyways. If we were there just to kill a few particular guys and leave, then why fuck with Karzai in the first place? Because it was an outdated strategy put into place in a theater we had no frame of reference for. So those 'resources' have already been snatched up and privatized anyways.
The government wasn't captured by corporate interests in the most recent election either. American interests and corporate interests have had to be lined up and on the same page since the 50s lol.
I also wonder why people are constantly trying to go back and rewrite the narrative regarding Syria as if Obama was somehow 'restrained' during his time as president with regards to military action. That makes no sense. He had a blank check.
And what do you mean by sitting out of Libya? Like we did that shit lol. Called the homies from the Iraq War and got the gang back together to remove another dictator (nevermind our previous history with said dictator, he's evil now because he needs to be)
Whatever boogieman you speak of I know now. But if you're literally arguing that ANY action by our government that doesn't hack and slash at business is pro business I don't know what to tell you. Yes Green energy is helping to grow another industry but guess what, that's how capitalism works. The government is having to intervene because the Koch's and Murry's of the world refuse to step aside and let market forces go where they want them to. The GOP wants this to continue and the Dems want to fight it.
Now if you are a full on lefty we will never come to an agreement as socialism can't and won't work but I do agree a strongly regulated capitalist society can work.
By TheHunter Go To PostI'm not sure what operations from 50 years ago have to do with a democratic party that has changed and become a lot more accepting of leftist and liberal policies.Ops from 50 years ago?
I also mentioned we make difficult decisions; not all I agree with.
XD omgggggg
I didn't realize he Desaparecidos of Argentina was that old, oh wait it isn't. Neither is any of the shit Clinton pulled. Changed, lol ok.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostOps from 50 years ago?
XD omgggggg
I didn't realize he Desaparecidos of Argentina was that old, oh wait it isn't. Neither is any of the shit Clinton pulled. Changed, lol ok.
The 80's was a long time ago in political time. To what "shit" clinton did do you refer? Somalia? Yugoslavia?
By TheHunter Go To PostMy point has been one side tries to stem the tide of corporate interests and the other jumps in bed even when it will destroy everything. Listen we can go back on forth on foreign policy, the issues of the modern military industrial complex as well as our involvement on both sides of the coin in military intervention and conflict but my point still stands, democrats are trying to fight big business. I never intended to veer into re-litigating middle east decision making.Stem what tide? Especially when one of our greatest and most valuable exports is our military and ability influence/direct economies on a global scale.
Whatever boogieman you speak of I know now. But if you're literally arguing that ANY action by our government that doesn't hack and slash at business is pro business I don't know what to tell you. Yes Green energy is helping to grow another industry but guess what, that's how capitalism works. The government is having to intervene because the Koch's and Murry's of the world refuse to step aside and let market forces go where they want them to. The GOP wants this to continue and the Dems want to fight it.
Now if you are a full on lefty we will never come to an agreement as socialism can't and won't work but I do agree a strongly regulated capitalist society can work.
I'm not going 'back and forth' on foreign policy, you're just saying flatly untrue stuff. Afghanistan had nothing to do with ISIS until very recently and even then they're not even close to being the primary agitators there.
We never 'sat out' of Libya, and Obama's hands were certainly not tied by anyone regarding Syria. If anything, our government dropped the ball by playing to the crowd with theatrics long enough for Russia to move in with force and change the layout of that particular arena.
I'm not speaking of boogiemen, I'm saying that if we sell missiles to a country, people don't get to be surprised when we have to get involved in one of their military disputes shortly after. Especially when there's clear advantages gained from both the sale of such weapons and the subsequent 'security' of whatever follows. Don't fall back on 'that's how capitalism works' then try to play good guys and bad guys right after, that's just disingenuous as hell to the nature of capitalism as a whole (especially when you want to play the nature of men game to define our military actions a whole earlier).
I've got zero comment on socialism and I don't think my posting has ever even implied a positive or negative towards it, however I'll reiterate my stance of this 'democratic purity' being straight up in-house propaganda that's of the same coin fed to conservatives. Again, this:
IF Trump and 2016 has taught me anything it's that humanity needs a central police power to watch over and ensure the laws are followed and peace is kept. That of course brings up "who polices those police" but our current situation and lack of regulation on unchecked globalism and corporate growth has shown we need a world police now more than ever, and one that can not only check countries but Multinationals as well.
Is some of the most blatantly Americanized arrogant warhawkism you can possibly find out there. You're "helping" the "world".
democrats are trying to fight big business.Oh yeah totes just look at Feinstein and her husband.
I'm done with this shit here.
Listen if you guys are just gonna sit here and argue that because dems aren't 100% perfect on every issue when it comes to corporate influence therefor fuck em I've got nothing more to say.
Keep chasing those unicorns.
Keep chasing those unicorns.
By DY_nasty Go To PostStem what tide? Especially when one of our greatest and most valuable exports is our military and ability influence/direct economies on a global scale.Who said it had to be America? I'm gonna go ahead and move on from the rest because it's clear were talking about two different issues here (you're speaking about politics and foreign interventionism along with the influence that goes with it, I speaking about general police the worldism) but I don't trust entities to police themselves. The GOP sitting on it's hands as abuse of power goes by day and day makes me think an over-watching body is needed. Something that can ensure the laws are followed and political parties themselves are kept in check as well as big business groups and cartels. It has nothing to do with militaries and warhawking and was a comment on the weakness of human greed and corruption.
I'm not going 'back and forth' on foreign policy, you're just saying flatly untrue stuff. Afghanistan had nothing to do with ISIS until very recently and even then they're not even close to being the primary agitators there.
We never 'sat out' of Libya, and Obama's hands were certainly not tied by anyone regarding Syria. If anything, our government dropped the ball by playing to the crowd with theatrics long enough for Russia to move in with force and change the layout of that particular arena.
I'm not speaking of boogiemen, I'm saying that if we sell missiles to a country, people don't get to be surprised when we have to get involved in one of their military disputes shortly after. Especially when there's clear advantages gained from both the sale of such weapons and the subsequent 'security' of whatever follows. Don't fall back on 'that's how capitalism works' then try to play good guys and bad guys right after, that's just disingenuous as hell to the nature of capitalism as a whole (especially when you want to play the nature of men game to define our military actions a whole earlier).
I've got zero comment on socialism and I don't think my posting has ever even implied a positive or negative towards it, however I'll reiterate my stance of this 'democratic purity' being straight up in-house propaganda that's of the same coin fed to conservatives. Again, this:
.
Is some of the most blatantly Americanized arrogant warhawkism you can possibly find out there. You're "helping" the "world".
As for democratic purity when have I ever said they're perfect? I mentioned several times here they've made mistakes; you and Random's comments made it sound like "lol dems fuck em" was the stance you were taking.
Am I wrong?
When folks have no real points against democrat malfeasance and greed, tell me I'm looking for unicorns.
That train is never fucking late I swear to god.
That train is never fucking late I swear to god.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostWhen folks have no real points against democrat malfeasance and greed, tell me I'm looking for unicorns.Then what are you looking for? I never once said the democrats were perfect.
That train is never fucking late I swear to god.
By TheHunter Go To PostListen if you guys are just gonna sit here and argue that because dems aren't 100% perfect on every issue when it comes to corporate influence therefor fuck em I've got nothing more to say.No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
Keep chasing those unicorns.
I'm saying that if you look at your own party as the "good guys" you're being dishonest from the start. And that's why I emphasized the other end of that article from Zeus. Yes, conservatives have their own specific themes but when you can't even place our own military's involvement in Libya, recollect the timeline (even from the media's portrayal) of Afghanistan, and want a world police themesong at the same time without realizing that's the punchline with regards to the left - That's the issue.
By DY_nasty Go To PostNo, that's not what I'm saying at all.The only reason I look at them as the "good guys" is because the other side right now is literally a Captain Planet villain.
I'm saying that if you look at your own party as the "good guys" you're being dishonest from the start. And that's why I emphasized the other end of that article from Zeus. Yes, conservatives have their own specific themes but when you can't even place our own military's involvement in Libya, recollect the timeline (even from the media's portrayal) of Afghanistan, and want a world police themesong at the same time without realizing that's the punchline with regards to the left - That's the issue.
Admittedly my knowledge of those issues is clearly weaker then yours so I concede to you on that point; I didn't follow Syria and Libya as closely as I should have so it's clear my knowledge on those issues is lacking.
I apologies.
By TheHunter Go To PostThe only reason I look at them as the "good guys" is because the other side right now is literally a Captain Planet villain.That's it?
Trump isn't the sole point of everything wrong with America. But holllllllllllllllllllllly shit its convenient.
By DY_nasty Go To PostThat's it?I mean, in a normal world they would just be a political party. I now have a moral obligation to fight the GOP instead of just a political one.
Trump isn't the sole point of everything wrong with America. But holllllllllllllllllllllly shit its convenient.
By TheHunter Go To PostI mean, in a normal world they would just be a political party. I now have a moral obligation to fight the GOP instead of just a political one.morally? now i'm just confused
there's plenty to be morally against from a lot of people, not just trump....
By DY_nasty Go To Postmorally? now i'm just confused
there's plenty to be morally against from a lot of people, not just trump….
As individuals? Of course. I always have and always will stand against racism, classicism and numerous other issues we could go on for days. On those subjects I would be a lot less ignorant on. But as a party? It used to be no need for panic; I now realize there is deep issues beyond just personal opinion. Half our country is deeply racist and ignorant of how the world works. Fortune 500 decide the fate of billions of lives and the GOP is currently trying to elect a pedophile.
2016 opened my eyes to just how bad everything is and now I feel a moral obligation to fight it. Hence why I look at the dems as the "good guys". I have no other choice then to pick them and force them to do better by the U.S. and the world. On average the dems are the one's most often trying to do "good". That doesn't mean the Feinstein's of the party are ok or the clintons skeletons are acceptable but the alternative is a party of racist, corrupt, evil poor hating oil barron loving, pedophile defeding monsters.
The choice to help the dems is an easy one for me.
I'll be honest, I don't think a lot of these liberals are even real liberals. I just think that socially, the GOP is disagreeable as hell for a lot of obvious reasons. Most are too comfortable to actually dislike the democratic party as much as they should or would - because the democrats really don't seem to care that much about poor people or brown people. Occasionally women, but that's dependent on if those women have money or not and if they can be trusted to vote reliably.
A lot of their talk is aimed at the middle class and though that's better than (openly) pandering to the highest income households/entities out there, its still a far far cry from where many still are.
A lot of their talk is aimed at the middle class and though that's better than (openly) pandering to the highest income households/entities out there, its still a far far cry from where many still are.
By DY_nasty Go To PostI'll be honest, I don't think a lot of these liberals are even real liberals. I just think that socially, the GOP is disagreeable as hell for a lot of obvious reasons. Most are too comfortable to actually dislike the democratic party as much as they should or would - because the democrats really don't seem to care that much about poor people or brown people. Occasionally women, but that's dependent on if those women have money or not and if they can be trusted to vote reliably.
A lot of their talk is aimed at the middle class and though that's better than (openly) pandering to the highest income households/entities out there, its still a far far cry from where many still are.
Which is why I advocate for change. The dems need to do more for the poor and minorities; they need to be better advocates for the environment and for social justice.
It's why I'm getting involved with the dems here in Illinois. Want the change? Be the change.
i didn't say anything about being a change man lol, this was again in reference to that article about how politics are framed right v left.
in that sense, you can be whatever change you want but if its still limited by the perspectives provided as opposing forces then what?
you morally stand against trump but that leaves a lot of similar morals out there that need examination if thats really your driving force ie that whole umbrella of things he believes in or things he supposedly does
you just can't play the whole 'dems fight big business' then look the other way regarding clinton's entire campaign either. shits blurry
in that sense, you can be whatever change you want but if its still limited by the perspectives provided as opposing forces then what?
you morally stand against trump but that leaves a lot of similar morals out there that need examination if thats really your driving force ie that whole umbrella of things he believes in or things he supposedly does
you just can't play the whole 'dems fight big business' then look the other way regarding clinton's entire campaign either. shits blurry
By DY_nasty Go To Posti didn't say anything about being a change man lol, this was again in reference to that article about how politics are framed right v left.
in that sense, you can be whatever change you want but if its still limited by the perspectives provided as opposing forces then what?
you morally stand against trump but that leaves a lot of similar morals out there that need examination if thats really your driving force ie that whole umbrella of things he believes in or things he supposedly does
you just can't play the whole 'dems fight big business' then look the other way regarding clinton's entire campaign either. shits blurry
1. I'm not against just Trump; I'm against all of the issues we face. Racism, sexism, xenophobia, and numerous other things. Trump is just a symptom of the the root issues. The dems provide the best avenue to fix those issues currently.
2. I don't look the other way regarding Clinton's issues. She wasn't my first pick. I do take to task all the dems who continue to support big business. I also take to task any of the "liberals", especially the one's who wanted to throw African Americans to the wolves.
Conyers and Franken need to just resign already. I appreciate Pelosi trying to prop Conyers up for a moment, because it was clearly an attempt to signal to black people (or at least the CBC), but he did his work back in the day and he needs to go.
By Mrs. Manky Go To PostConyers and Franken need to just resign already. I appreciate Pelosi trying to prop Conyers up for a moment, because it was clearly an attempt to signal to black people (or at least the CBC), but he did his work back in the day and he needs to go.
No they will get a ethics review cause once you go from "accusation = guilt" we're back at the McCarthyism.
With that said I expect both men to step down or at the very least to cease running again for office if/when found guilty.
By TheHunter Go To PostIt escalated when ISIS came unto the scene as well as when vast resources were found inside the country. I do imagine we might have escalated it for that reason so we aren't faultless but what Obama did vs what GOP military adventures do is leaps and bounds different. Drone strikes and surges vs complete BS to invade a country is what we're talking.The US has been manufacturing its boogie men for decades regardless who sits at the head of table...
Left militarism is not the same as Right militarism. Clinton did truly want to "police" the world. The GOP wants to pilfer it.
I mean trying to sugar coat blowing up schools and whatever as a different for of warhawking is a reach... the results for them countries are the same
By Zeus Ex Machina Go To Post
That's not including a president who just doesn't give a fuck about the law
President Ball will save you.
Lavar 2020
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html
A woman who falsely claimed to The Washington Post that Roy Moore, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Alabama, impregnated her as a teenager appears to work with an organization that uses deceptive tactics to secretly record conversations in an effort to embarrass its targets.
By Nelo Ice Go To Posthttps://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic–and-false–tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html
But on Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover “stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.The fuck is wrong with right-wingers
All of this is to help Roy fucking Moore get elected to the Senate. James O'Keefe can EAD. The party of family values, everyone!
The right is absolutely depraved.
The right is absolutely depraved.
By KingGondo Go To PostAll of this is to help Roy fucking Moore get elected to the Senate. James O'Keefe can EAD. The party of family values, everyone!If it makes anyone feel better the centrists and moderates are finally seeing the light.
The right is absolutely depraved.
By TheHunter Go To PostIf it makes anyone feel better the centrists and moderates are finally seeing the light.What makes you say that?
Did this ever come up?
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html?referer=http://m.facebook.com/
Crazy...
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html?referer=http://m.facebook.com/
Crazy...
By KingGondo Go To PostWhat makes you say that?Conversations I've head with moderates and centrists; normal white people are starting to get absolutely repulsed by the GOP. Moore has done a number on them and God help them if he does win.
By KingGondo Go To PostAll of this is to help Roy fucking Moore get elected to the Senate. James O'Keefe can EAD. The party of family values, everyone!they are all racists and completely complicit with what trump and the gop have been doing for 40+ years.
The right is absolutely depraved.
By TheHunter Go To PostConversations I've head with moderates and centrists; normal white people are starting to get absolutely repulsed by the GOP. Moore has done a number on them and God help them if he does win.Lol ok
Don’t be angered when these people vote republican next election and that light never existed
By RobNBanks Go To PostLol ok
Don’t be angered when these people vote republican next election and that light never existed
I lack faith in republicans but I think moderate independents are being pushed leftward for sure
By RobNBanks Go To PostLol okNo I will be, I just won't be surprised.
Don’t be angered when these people vote republican next election and that light never existed
if you guys ever get a minute, reuters has put together a great article on the immigration stalemate
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-immigration-police/police-in-trump-supporting-towns-aid-immigration-officials-in-crackdown-idUSKBN1DR169
its a bit lengthy, but i think they do a great job hitting from a very unbiased angle
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-immigration-police/police-in-trump-supporting-towns-aid-immigration-officials-in-crackdown-idUSKBN1DR169
its a bit lengthy, but i think they do a great job hitting from a very unbiased angle
Not disturbing in the slightest
Participating jurisdictions also, as part of their agreement with ICE, have the option of signing separate contracts to house immigrant detainees for a fee.
“It’s an opportunity to make money for a county that is facing economic hardship,” said Chris Kleinberg, the sheriff of Dakota County, Nebraska. He said it has applied to be part of the program.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI lack faith in republicans but I think moderate independents are being pushed leftward for sureThey're not being pushed leftward so much as the centre is being pushed farther to the right and this has been happening for almost a decade... yet so-called "moderate independents" and people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 either stayed home or went to Donnie. I have no faith in people who sit on the fence.
I'm not one to throw out "impeachment" all willy nilly, but the damage this fool is doing is immeasurable.
I just can't believe how nakedly Zuckerberg is doing these things in the name of running for office. It's just so transparent.
Go away, dude. Your shitty website helped and continues to help perpetuate propaganda and Russian bot misinformation.
Go away, dude. Your shitty website helped and continues to help perpetuate propaganda and Russian bot misinformation.
