ooooooh gimme linkage
This is moving a lot quicker than I thought it would. Nixon was clearly much better at cover ups.
This is moving a lot quicker than I thought it would. Nixon was clearly much better at cover ups.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostTARP: $700B. One time spending bill.
US Healthcare spending: $3.2 TRILLION (in 2015) and growing. That's a recurring expense year after year after year.
This is why there's a huge contingent in the democratic party that don't take the left seriously. Until they've proven that they've done the work, nothing's going to dissuade us from our initial assessment: they're policy lightweights.
EDIT: On topic of deficits. The right has shown repeatedly that their concerns over deficits is not on the level, so don't even engage with it. Everyone "cares" about the deficit, but in reality no one cares about the deficit if they get what they want.
Hmm. Ok. So you take one example of TARP and act like that's all the government has ever used quantitative easing for, or is even using quantitative easing for right now. You completely disregard the rest of my post. Bravo, mate.
You think we couldn't get the costs of healthcare down below $3.2 trillion once we actually commit to actually doing that? The $3.2 trillion you're quoting would be the cost according to the current landscape of market conditions, lax regulations, and robber baron corporations all colluding together. You completely ignore that?
Recurring expense year after year, or not, it's an expense that must be made. Our NATO expenses are also recurring expenses year after year, yet we do that. We seem to have no problem with that. You think there aren't any bad contracts in our military? You think the military hasn't awarded more than $3.2 trillion in contracts just in the Middle East alone?
You talk about how this is why you can't fuck with Berniecrats, but the fraud defense you run for centrists and a broken healthcare industry is why we can't fuck with you.
You still asking for how we're going to do it or whatever? I already told you. Talk to the Europeans. Talk to the Canadians. Tell them to fix us while we continue paying their defense bills. In the meantime, continue being a Hillary stan and leaving us with Trump in your wake.
You act like all this shit gonna come out of your pocket.
"One of the great memories of all time," Trump told reporters, before gesturing to his head. "There was no hesitation. I think she's a fantastic woman. I was extremely nice to her. Extremely respectful."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/25/16547290/trump-gold-star-widow
President Donald Trump told reporters on Friday morning that "I don't remember much" about a March 2016 meeting at which a foreign policy adviser proposed setting up a meeting between candidate Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
http://n.pr/2lJDO18
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostHmm. Ok. So you take one example of TARP and act like that's all the government has ever used quantitative easing for, or is even using quantitative easing for right now. You completely disregard the rest of my post. Bravo, mate.
You think we couldn't get the costs of healthcare down below $3.2 trillion once we actually commit to actually doing that? The $3.2 trillion you're quoting would be the cost according to the current landscape of market conditions, lax regulations, and robber baron corporations all colluding together. You completely ignore that?
Recurring expense year after year, or not, it's an expense that must be made. Our NATO expenses are also recurring expenses year after year, yet we do that. We seem to have no problem with that. You think there aren't any bad contracts in our military? You think the military hasn't awarded more than $3.2 trillion in contracts just in the Middle East alone?
You talk about how this is why you can't fuck with Berniecrats, but the fraud defense you run for centrists and a broken healthcare industry is why we can't fuck with you.
You still asking for how we're going to do it or whatever? I already told you. Talk to the Europeans. Talk to the Canadians. Tell them to fix us while we continue paying their defense bills. In the meantime, continue being a Hillary stan and leaving us with Trump in your wake.
You act like all this shit gonna come out of your pocket.
Just casually came into this thread to see if you guys were talking about the Donna Brazille fiasco so I can get my daily tea, but this will do.
Great fucking post. #truthfact
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostYou talk about how this is why you can't fuck with Berniecrats, but the fraud defense you run for centrists and a broken healthcare industry is why we can't fuck with you.
You still asking for how we're going to do it or whatever? I already told you. Talk to the Europeans. Talk to the Canadians. Tell them to fix us while we continue paying their defense bills. In the meantime, continue being a Hillary stan and leaving us with Trump in your wake.
You act like all this shit gonna come out of your pocket.
Wait is this a real response? His critique is asking how the leftists plan to implement their proposals and this is your response?
By Perfect Blue Go To Post
wow
I have only followed this case in this thread, but isn't this guy like the number 1 most hated guy in the military?
Why has he been allowed to walk away after what he did?
re the dnc corruption shit
the only people who are trying to iraqi information minister that shit are clinton hangerons and other dead-end consultants. those with an actual stake in 2020 (harris, warren) have already adopted parts of bernie's platform and recognize the dnc as a joke
the only people who are trying to iraqi information minister that shit are clinton hangerons and other dead-end consultants. those with an actual stake in 2020 (harris, warren) have already adopted parts of bernie's platform and recognize the dnc as a joke
By Fenderputty Go To PostDue to the Trump comments?Judge apparently hasn't said why he gave out the sentence and the motion to dismiss the trial over Trump's comments was denied. His defence team's argument was essentially that Bergdahl was mentally ill before entering the military and should be granted leniency + he suffered enough under capture.
Man o man is DY going to be pissed
By Perfect Blue Go To PostJudge apparently hasn't said why he gave out the sentence and the motion to dismiss the trial over Trump's comments was denied. His defence team's argument was essentially that Bergdahl was mentally ill before entering the military and should be granted leniency + he suffered enough under capture.
huh. wow.
By Randolph Freelander Go To Post
He's wealthy. We always knew he would be able to challenge.
Meanwhile, Dumbass Donald had been tweeting all morning, crap like
And other things, such as the emedded image in the below.
And other things, such as the emedded image in the below.
Kinda shocked that Bergdahl isn't serving time, tbh.
Things shouldn't be allowed to continue to degrade in the DNC, but Donna doesn't deserve any points for this bullshit. Hell, I like Warren, but she can miss me with the, "see, it was rigged" nonsense too. Everyone involved can.
Things shouldn't be allowed to continue to degrade in the DNC, but Donna doesn't deserve any points for this bullshit. Hell, I like Warren, but she can miss me with the, "see, it was rigged" nonsense too. Everyone involved can.
By Fenderputty Go To PostWait is this a real response? His critique is asking how the leftists plan to implement their proposals and this is your response?
All of modern society has advanced to the degree that we have by acquiring and sharing information with each other. It is a fundamental tenet of modernized civilization. The principles still apply today. You take what works, discard what doesn't, and make something new with that augmentation.
As an example, we didn't completely dismiss the idea of a democracy just because our country is too big for a direct democracy like other countries have; we just tailored the concept of democracy to our needs and limitations. Likewise, referencing the policies of other countries for clues as to how to implement our own does not mean to create carbon copies of their policies, but to use their data sets to inform our knowledge base as to how we should (or shouldn't) build a framework for our own version of the same general concept.
I don't see anything objectionable about the inferences made in the post that you quoted, so you're gonna have to be more specific about why it's so problematic.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostHmm. Ok. So you take one example of TARP and act like that's all the government has ever used quantitative easing for, or is even using quantitative easing for right now. You completely disregard the rest of my post. Bravo, mate.
You think we couldn't get the costs of healthcare down below $3.2 trillion once we actually commit to actually doing that? The $3.2 trillion you're quoting would be the cost according to the current landscape of market conditions, lax regulations, and robber baron corporations all colluding together. You completely ignore that?
Recurring expense year after year, or not, it's an expense that must be made. Our NATO expenses are also recurring expenses year after year, yet we do that. We seem to have no problem with that. You think there aren't any bad contracts in our military? You think the military hasn't awarded more than $3.2 trillion in contracts just in the Middle East alone?
You talk about how this is why you can't fuck with Berniecrats, but the fraud defense you run for centrists and a broken healthcare industry is why we can't fuck with you.
You still asking for how we're going to do it or whatever? I already told you. Talk to the Europeans. Talk to the Canadians. Tell them to fix us while we continue paying their defense bills. In the meantime, continue being a Hillary stan and leaving us with Trump in your wake.
You act like all this shit gonna come out of your pocket.
The Federal Reserve affects the money supply, it does not address the realities of passing a legislation through US Congress. Either you offer a way to pay for this bill through new revenue generating taxes, or you leave that out and simply say, "we'll inflate the hell out of our national debt because deficits don't matter". I wonder which of these arguments is going to get you the quickest kick in the legislative ass.
Theoretically the Fed can always pay for debt by printing more money, but that comes with the threat of hyperinflation and depression. We've been able to navigate theses risks because the economy had room to grow, and the Fed's injection of funds did not reach consumers in any meaningful way. Deficits become far more difficult to manage as we approach full employment and the economy overheats, but that's even before we consider the political ramifications of expanding the Fed's role in the day to day policy making in DC this way. To be the nominal and real funding source of the largest welfare program in the history of the world is a mind-boggling overstep of its mandate I wonder which chairman you can find to even consider buying into the idea.
And just so we're clear, defense spending is in the realm of about half a trillion dollars a year. Most Americans favor minor cuts to defense spending, so even if we get politicians pliable to the idea in office, it would amount to maybe freeing up an additional $50B a year. Which is great, you found enough money to pay for Oregon.
By brainchild Go To PostAll of modern society has advanced to the degree that we have by acquiring and sharing information with each other. It is a fundamental tenet of modernized civilization. The principles still apply today. You take what works, discard what doesn't, and make something new with that augmentation.
As an example, we didn't completely dismiss the idea of a democracy just because our country is too big for a direct democracy like other countries have; we just tailored the concept of democracy to our needs and limitations. Likewise, referencing the policies of other countries for clues as to how to implement our own does not mean to create carbon copies of their policies, but to use their data sets to inform our knowledge base as to how we should (or shouldn't) build a framework for our own version of the same general concept.
I don't see anything objectionable about that inferences made in the post that you quoted, so you're gonna have to be more specific about why it's so problematic.
Sure this would make more sense if this:
Tell them to fix us while we continue paying their defense bills
wan't included. That line right there implies he not looking to other for "advice"
In any case, if that's the solution, why did Bernie put together a more comprehensive plan than anything even offered over there? Why is he resistant to other multiplayer like systems which also reside in Europe? He proposed a complete phase out of all private insurance and wanted to transition to this takeover of private industry in 5 years. What about doctors to implement this comprehensive plan? Do all of the people in the private insurance industry make it over the public side during this transition? If he wants to separate labor from healthcare why is he proposing to pay for this via a payroll tax? How do you get the infrastructure set up in that 5 year transition to care for the entire country?
It's not unreasonable to want some meat with my potatoes.
By Fenderputty Go To PostWait is this a real response? His critique is asking how the leftists plan to implement their proposals and this is your response?Why wouldn't it be a real response? I'm not too proud to consult with others for help when the only thing we're good at doing anymore is keeping our poor people economically depressed so the rich can keep getting richer.
Also a real response: listen to Bernie: expand Medicare (which means just take what we already have and feed it Mario mushrooms), enforce lower prices on medicine so we're not paying three times as other countries, copy Germany and Switzerland cuz if they can make it work then why can't we, etc., etc. Basically any of these steps would make our system infinitely better compared to the utter crap we have now.
What not to do: listen to "YAAASSS QW33N" donors anymore.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostWhy wouldn't it be a real response? I'm not too proud to consult with others for help when the only thing we're good at doing anymore is keeping our poor people economically depressed so the rich can keep getting richer.
Also a real response: listen to Bernie: expand Medicare (which means just take what we already have and feed it Mario mushrooms), enforce lower prices on medicine so we're not paying three times as other countries, copy Germany and Switzerland cuz if they can make it work then why can't we, etc., etc. Basically any of these steps would make our system infinitely better compared to the utter crap we have now.
What not to do: listen to "YAAASSS QW33N" donors anymore.
You just exemplified part of the problem. Both Germany AND Switzerland offer private insurance through their tax based system as long as they meet approval and are willing to have profits ties to a specific percentage. What Bernie offered doesn't mirror this. It mirrors England but is more robust. England doesn't have an almost centuries long healthcare market entrenched in labor and private insurance either. He did all that without explaining how it was going to happen. His bill is a litmus test and nothing more. Which is why every potential presidential front runner signed on before even reading the thing.
This goes back to why I have an issue with populism. The message is dummed down and the details don't matter when they should. This has nothing to do with YAAAAAS QUEEEN and everything to do with how we best end up with UHC for our country.
By Fenderputty Go To PostSure this would make more sense if this:
wan't included. That line right there implies he not looking to other for "advice"
In any case, if that's the solution, why did Bernie put together a more comprehensive plan than anything even offered over there? Why is he resistant to other multiplayer like systems which also reside in Europe? He proposed a complete phase out of all private insurance and wanted to transition to this takeover of private industry in 5 years. What about doctors to implement this comprehensive plan? Do all of the people in the private insurance industry make it over the public side during this transition? If he wants to separate labor from healthcare why is he proposing to pay for this via a payroll tax? How do you get the infrastructure set up in that 5 year transition to care for the entire country?
It's not unreasonable to want some meat with my potatoes.
Are you literally asking me to draft rudimentary legislation with a level of technical specification that not even a litany of interns could produce and delineate in one day?
The meat that you're asking for is more like a buffet for a city. You're not getting those answers in the same breath as an overview on the subject. They're entirely different conversations.
What is relevant here the plan itself. The intricacies and contingencies are important, but go beyond the scope of simply providing a cursory glance at what is going to be addressed and how it's going to be addressed.
If your problem is that those details aren't forthcoming enough, then focus on that instead of assuming that your questions don't have answers.
Copying Germany's healthcare system is not the same as a Singlepayer System, so I don't even know how you can name Germany in the same breath as what Bernie is proposing.
By reilo Go To PostCopying Germany's healthcare system is not the same as a Singlepayer System, so I don't even know how you can name Germany in the same breath as what Bernie is proposing.
The same way I can say that Switzerland and US are democratic countries and everyone not lose their minds because they're not exactly the same kind of democracy.
But that's the thing: Bernie has had tunnel vision about the only acceptable healthcare system he wants to push in the USA. Saying we should be "more like Germany" is literally against what Bernie has been proposing.
To clarify, the reason I call that out is because we're discussing what Bernie's healthcare proposals are, and throwing Germany's healthcare system out there like that's what he's proposing is... weird.
To clarify, the reason I call that out is because we're discussing what Bernie's healthcare proposals are, and throwing Germany's healthcare system out there like that's what he's proposing is... weird.
I'm getting really tired of nothing being done about education.
I get it, health care is a serious issue, but we aren't even discussing education ever.
I get it, health care is a serious issue, but we aren't even discussing education ever.
By reilo Go To PostBut that's the thing: Bernie has had tunnel vision about the only acceptable healthcare system he wants to push in the USA. Saying we should be "more like Germany" is literally against what Bernie has been proposing.
To clarify, the reason I call that out is because we're discussing what Bernie's healthcare proposals are, and throwing Germany's healthcare system out there like that's what he's proposing is… weird.
Sure, there are better examples to choose from, I agree. But I guess I didn't interpret it is being exactly the same as Germany. I took it as looking to countries like Germany for inspiration. I don't think Bernie himself would disagree, even if it's not exactly the same.
By Dark PhaZe Go To PostI'm getting really tired of nothing being done about education.
I get it, health care is a serious issue, but we aren't even discussing education ever.
I agree with you. It's really embarrassing.
By brainchild Go To PostAre you literally asking me to draft rudimentary legislation with a level of technical specification that not even a litany of interns could produce and delineate in one day?
The meat that you're asking for is more like a buffet for a city. You're not getting those answers in the same breath as an overview on the subject. They're entirely different conversations.
What is relevant here the plan itself. The intricacies and contingencies are important, but go beyond the scope of simply providing a cursory glance at what is going to be addressed and how it's going to be addressed.
If your problem is that those details aren't forthcoming enough, then focus on that instead of assuming that your questions don't have answers.
No, I'm asking for someone who's drafting these litmus test bills to put some more thought into them rather than just pushing a populist message.
By brainchild Go To PostThe same way I can say that Switzerland and US are democratic countries and everyone not lose their minds because they're not exactly the same kind of democracy.
Not really. Everyone knows our democracies are different because we have different governments. Everyone doesn't know the healthcare system Bernie proposed is different than Germany or Switzerland because everybody thinks everyone in Europe is using a single payer system when they're not. We have a problems at a base level with understanding what's propose
By brainchild Go To PostSure, there are better examples to choose from, I agree. But I guess I didn't interpret it is being exactly the same as Germany. I took it as looking to countries like Germany for inspiration. I don't think Bernie himself would disagree, even if it's not exactly the same.I honestly think Bernie would disagree with you on that point. He'd scoff at any model that includes a private component.
Are Germany and Switzerland ideal? No, but it's a step in a better direction. Norway would obviously be the most ideal, but suggesting that sends moderates up in arms about how America is too big and all this and all that until my eyes start rolling into the back of my head and I want to take an opioid.
All I'm saying is that we don't even have what Germany and Switzerland have, that's how shit we are. That's literally how late we are. We're barely a first world country anymore.
Bernie is the only one who even recognizes what a first world country is anymore.
All I'm saying is that we don't even have what Germany and Switzerland have, that's how shit we are. That's literally how late we are. We're barely a first world country anymore.
Bernie is the only one who even recognizes what a first world country is anymore.
Switzerland’s healthcare system is basically Obamacare, isn’t it? They use private insurers and an individual mandate.
I lived in Germany so I'd agree with anyone that it's a model to copy! I just don't think Bernie would agree given that it has a sizable private component.
By Fenderputty Go To PostNo, I'm asking for someone who's drafting these litmus test bills to put some more thought into them rather than just pushing a populist message.
You might be asking too much, considering the purpose of those bills, but fair enough.
By reilo Go To PostI honestly think Bernie would disagree with you on that point. He'd scoff at any model that includes a private component.
Bernie's not a stranger to taking a hodge-podge of ideas and working with that. I don't see why he wouldn't have good things to say about Germany's model besides the private sector component. His current proposal is proof of that. There are plenty of compromises in it already compared to what he'd probably prefer to have done. Compromise shows a willingness to accept certain ideas that you may disagree with if it means you can realize other ideas that you support.
I don't see Bernie promoting Germany's model specifically, but if he was asked if there was anything we could learn about Germany's system, I'm absolutely positive he wouldn't say 'no'. But this is getting hilariously off topic at this point, lol
Most people are for universal coverage.
Most people are against not having a private option beyond what the government provides.
Even the UK has options apart from the NHS. Bernie wants Canada and only Canada. That’s wildly unrealistic to me
Most people are against not having a private option beyond what the government provides.
Even the UK has options apart from the NHS. Bernie wants Canada and only Canada. That’s wildly unrealistic to me
By Dark PhaZe Go To PostI'm getting really tired of nothing being done about education.Education ship sailed a long time ago.
I get it, health care is a serious issue, but we aren't even discussing education ever.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostAre Germany and Switzerland ideal? No, but it's a step in a better direction. Norway would obviously be the most ideal, but suggesting that sends moderates up in arms about how America is too big and all this and all that until my eyes start rolling into the back of my head and I want to take an opioid.
All I'm saying is that we don't even have what Germany and Switzerland have, that's how shit we are. That's literally how late we are. We're barely a first world country anymore.
Bernie is the only one who even recognizes what a first world country is anymore.
See you exemplify another problem. Why is Norway the best for us? Japan was ranked higher them by the WHO and they're a multipayer system. I just countered your idea and never once mentioned the size of our Country. Roll your eyes all you want, but the transition into whatever system we use will be harder than eventual implementation and our size is absolutely a factor.
By Fenderputty Go To PostNot really. Everyone knows our democracies are different because we have different governments. Everyone doesn't know the healthcare system Bernie proposed is different than Germany or Switzerland because everybody thinks everyone in Europe is using a single payer system when they're not. We have a problems at a base level with understanding what's propose
I don't think this is true, but it's not worth arguing about so I'll let it lie.
By brainchild Go To PostI don't think this is true, but it's not worth arguing about so I'll let it lie.
I may be too generous lol
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostThe Federal Reserve affects the money supply, it does not address the realities of passing a legislation through US Congress. Either you offer a way to pay for this bill through new revenue generating taxes, or you leave that out and simply say, "we'll inflate the hell out of our national debt because deficits don't matter". I wonder which of these arguments is going to get you the quickest kick in the legislative ass.You're a really smart dude. I wish we could get you to be more left of center. We could use your intelligence on this side of the fence. Hillary doesn't deserve you.
Theoretically the Fed can always pay for debt by printing more money, but that comes with the threat of hyperinflation and depression. We've been able to navigate theses risks because the economy had room to grow, and the Fed's injection of funds did not reach consumers in any meaningful way. Deficits become far more difficult to manage as we approach full employment and the economy overheats, but that's even before we consider the political ramifications of expanding the Fed's role in the day to day policy making in DC this way. To be the nominal and real funding source of the largest welfare program in the history of the world is a mind-boggling overstep of its mandate I wonder which chairman you can find to even consider buying into the idea.
And just so we're clear, defense spending is in the realm of about half a trillion dollars a year. Most Americans favor minor cuts to defense spending, so even if we get politicians pliable to the idea in office, it would amount to maybe freeing up an additional $50B a year. Which is great, you found enough money to pay for Oregon.
You and brainchild are really humbling to have this conversation with. Fenderputty and reilo, too. I myself am not worthy.
Anyway, sorry I came at you like that. I wish you were on the side willing to change the system, cuz you and brainchild and Fenderputty and reilo would be an all-star team.
I'll try to come more correct next time.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostYou're a really smart dude. I wish we could get you to be more left of center. We could use your intelligence on this side of the fence. Hillary don't deserve you, man.
You and brainchild are really humbling to have this conversation with. Fenderputty and reilo, too. I'm not worthy.
Anyway, I'm sorry I came at you like that. I wish you were on the side willing to change the system, cuz you and brainchild and Fenderputty and reilo would be an all-star team.
I'm out.
I appreciate the sentiment, and while I'll do everything I can to affect change (including supporting Bernie, and voting in local and midterm elections) there's not a big enough check in the world to get me into politics. From a QoL perspective, I'd be in a living hell as a politician.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostYou're a really smart dude. I wish we could get you to be more left of center. We could use your intelligence on this side of the fence. Hillary doesn't deserve you.
You and brainchild are really humbling to have this conversation with. Fenderputty and reilo, too. I myself am not worthy.
Anyway, sorry I came at you like that. I wish you were on the side willing to change the system, cuz you and brainchild and Fenderputty and reilo would be an all-star team.
I'll try to come more correct next time.
Political conversation that ends civilly is always appreciated.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostYou're a really smart dude. I wish we could get you to be more left of center. We could use your intelligence on this side of the fence. Hillary doesn't deserve you.Appreciate the kind words but I don't think you should assume we're not "left-of-center" enough because we don't agree on the approach of how to solve a problem at hand. I think that's where most of the disagreements lie.
You and brainchild are really humbling to have this conversation with. Fenderputty and reilo, too. I myself am not worthy.
Anyway, sorry I came at you like that. I wish you were on the side willing to change the system, cuz you and brainchild and Fenderputty and reilo would be an all-star team.
I'll try to come more correct next time.
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostYou're a really smart dude. I wish we could get you to be more left of center. We could use your intelligence on this side of the fence. Hillary doesn't deserve you.
You and brainchild are really humbling to have this conversation with. Fenderputty and reilo, too. I myself am not worthy.
Anyway, sorry I came at you like that. I wish you were on the side willing to change the system, cuz you and brainchild and Fenderputty and reilo would be an all-star team.
I'll try to come more correct next time.
Look man. I know you mean well. And apart from some fringe DSA factions, I believe that of the Left as well. What I want to see is more intellectual rigor on the part of the left to prove that they know how to build consensus and implement their vision. Their disdain for policy wonks is baffling because those are the people you rely on to put your vision in motion.
What Bernie has proved to me is that he's very good at getting people fired up to do something. That's fantastic, because without it we won't ever get a proposal even, let alone implementation. But that something can't be just anything. This is the largest social welfare reform we've ever undertaken, and it's time the left seriously thought about how their policies would affect people's lives day to day. That doesn't need to happen on the campaign trail but it needs to happen in some capacity. Fast.
I hate to bring up gaf right now, but if this conversation happened over there, there's not a snowball's chance in hell it would've turned out the same way. It's almost surreal to see this right now!
By brainchild Go To PostI hate to bring up gaf right now, but if this conversation happened over there, there's not a snowball's chance in hell it would've turned out the same way. It's almost surreal to see this right now!
Lol
No lies detected
Also wat:
