SATA II is almost never a bottleneck for a traditional HDD. There are a few out there than can saturate it but they are all recent drives, and even then just barely. Right now i think you are using a SFF-8087 to SATA breakout cable so each drive has its own channel.
How much storage do you actually need? 4K video is the prototypical use case for PCIe based storage.
How much storage do you actually need? 4K video is the prototypical use case for PCIe based storage.
I need around 4tb at least. I currently have raid 0 2x 4tb.
Pcie based storage?
Explain please.
Also I just read up on SAS and 12gb/s.
F thunderbolt I might go SAS with this next rig.
Pcie based storage?
Explain please.
Also I just read up on SAS and 12gb/s.
F thunderbolt I might go SAS with this next rig.
Storage that uses PCIe lanes as the interconnect. It's what the newest NVMe drives use, right now for consumers it either comes in an AIC (add in card) that works just like a video card, or in M.2 form. They are crazy fast SSD's, with sequential throughput reaching 3500MB/sec read and 2100MB/sec write speeds (Megabyte not Megabit). But needing 4TB kind of eliminates them, they run about $480 per 1TB.
Think of Thunderbolt as just a cable that can carry a lot of different signals, you can even send PCIe across it. They even have SAS external enclosures that use Thunderbolt instead of an external SAS connector (expensive though). True SAS drives are still kind of really for the enterprise, with its main advantage over SATA being that it is dual ported (you can hook up two contollers to one drive so if a controller fails, it can still see it). All 3.5'' 7200 RPM SAS drives are called NL-SAS and they are essentially high quality SATA drives with a SAS interposer, the "real" SAS drives are 10,000 RPM 2.5'' drives or SSD's. SAS SSD's are actually more expensive than PCIe drives while being a slower interface.
Your RAID controller right now is actually a SAS controller, but forget about SAS unless you just want higher quality enterprise HDD's. Your best option might just be to add more drives to that RAID 0, if its throughput that is the bottleneck.
Think of Thunderbolt as just a cable that can carry a lot of different signals, you can even send PCIe across it. They even have SAS external enclosures that use Thunderbolt instead of an external SAS connector (expensive though). True SAS drives are still kind of really for the enterprise, with its main advantage over SATA being that it is dual ported (you can hook up two contollers to one drive so if a controller fails, it can still see it). All 3.5'' 7200 RPM SAS drives are called NL-SAS and they are essentially high quality SATA drives with a SAS interposer, the "real" SAS drives are 10,000 RPM 2.5'' drives or SSD's. SAS SSD's are actually more expensive than PCIe drives while being a slower interface.
Your RAID controller right now is actually a SAS controller, but forget about SAS unless you just want higher quality enterprise HDD's. Your best option might just be to add more drives to that RAID 0, if its throughput that is the bottleneck.
Throughput is definitely the bottleneck. That and RAM usage. The dual Xeons is pretty much on vacation when compositing and editing.
How about this one diehard,
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Seagate-HDD-ST4000NM0025-4TB-SAS-12Gb-s-Enterprise-7200RPM-128MB-3-5-512n-/122258012528?hash=item1c77253970%3Ag%3AIdYAAOSwEzxYR5IL&_trkparms=pageci%253Aacc0944c-d81a-11e6-8a8a-74dbd180a38b%257Cparentrq%253A8e59f05e1590a250551da121ffc0b60f%257Ciid%253A17
Pretty cheap no?
If I get a SAS 12gb/s controller and throw in a couple 12gb/s SAS HDDs in a raid zero, I won't theoretically beat thunderbolt in the same raid setup?
The fastest I've seen on thunderbolt on mechanical HDDs is around 600-700mbps
How about this one diehard,
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Seagate-HDD-ST4000NM0025-4TB-SAS-12Gb-s-Enterprise-7200RPM-128MB-3-5-512n-/122258012528?hash=item1c77253970%3Ag%3AIdYAAOSwEzxYR5IL&_trkparms=pageci%253Aacc0944c-d81a-11e6-8a8a-74dbd180a38b%257Cparentrq%253A8e59f05e1590a250551da121ffc0b60f%257Ciid%253A17
Pretty cheap no?
If I get a SAS 12gb/s controller and throw in a couple 12gb/s SAS HDDs in a raid zero, I won't theoretically beat thunderbolt in the same raid setup?
The fastest I've seen on thunderbolt on mechanical HDDs is around 600-700mbps
Yeah that's pretty good, probably will want the 4Kn or 512e version, 512n is kinda for old ass systems that can't use the more advanced sector format. there are model numbers here http://www.seagate.com/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/ent-cap-3-5-hdd-data-sheetDS1882-2-1606US-en_US.pdf
If you are talking about a local RAID 0 it would definitely beat most external thunderbolt setups. But it's moreso about the limitation of the controller the DAS is using than interface the drives are using. Do you have space for more than 2 hard drives in your current case?
If you are talking about a local RAID 0 it would definitely beat most external thunderbolt setups. But it's moreso about the limitation of the controller the DAS is using than interface the drives are using. Do you have space for more than 2 hard drives in your current case?
I dont have anymore space for more HDD in this dell workstation. I have 2x 4TB Sata III HDDs for raid zero, a third one for caching on SSD, and the 4th one for the OS.
How do i go about local SAS RAID in this scenario?
get a SAS controller? would the controller have builtin sas ports for internal connections?
how about using external SAS enclosures, would that be just fast as internal?
How do i go about local SAS RAID in this scenario?
get a SAS controller? would the controller have builtin sas ports for internal connections?
how about using external SAS enclosures, would that be just fast as internal?
Instead of using a SFF-8087 to SATA (reverse? i cant remember) breakout cable, you need SFF-8087 to SFF-8482. Like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Shipping-LSI-3Ware-SAS-cable-SFF-8087-to-SFF-8482-power-x4-SAS-Red-Cable-/261474201496
You won't want to mix SATA and SAS though.
For an external SAS enclosure you will go mini-SAS (SFF-8087) out to an enclosure that hits a small board in it where again you would use the SFF-8087 to SFF-8482 cable. It would need its own PSU, they can be built somewhat cheaply. If you need more than 4 drives you need to use a SAS expander backplane. If you want to know more i can go in more depth about that stuff. It would be essentially the same speed as any internal one. Here is a pre-built one that i have no idea if its good or not https://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-TowerRAID-TR4X-Enclosure/dp/B0053PSLVW
Do you have any spare 5.25'' (CD/DVD) bays available? you can get really cheap adapters to put a HDD in there.. that would work awesome to you to 3 or 4 drives.
You won't want to mix SATA and SAS though.
For an external SAS enclosure you will go mini-SAS (SFF-8087) out to an enclosure that hits a small board in it where again you would use the SFF-8087 to SFF-8482 cable. It would need its own PSU, they can be built somewhat cheaply. If you need more than 4 drives you need to use a SAS expander backplane. If you want to know more i can go in more depth about that stuff. It would be essentially the same speed as any internal one. Here is a pre-built one that i have no idea if its good or not https://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-TowerRAID-TR4X-Enclosure/dp/B0053PSLVW
Do you have any spare 5.25'' (CD/DVD) bays available? you can get really cheap adapters to put a HDD in there.. that would work awesome to you to 3 or 4 drives.
omg, I never knew about using those 5.25 bays as HDD storage. I have 3 spares in the front!
I think I want to try to do an internal RAID.
so my dell mobo (6FW8P) has these PCIe slots.
1x PCIe2 x4
2x PCIe2 x8
2x PCIe2 x16
so PCIe 2.0 bandwidth caps at 500MB/s per lane.
wont 2.0 limit SAS's potential of 12GB/s?
say i have 3x SAS HDDs on RAID 0,
3 x 500MB/s per lane = 1500MB/s correct?
do i still have to get a 12gb/s SAS throughput or can I get away with 6GB/s SAS controller card and HDD?
Because im currently looking at those 12GB/s SAS raid cards on Ebay and *phew*
they're pricey af.
E: this is the cheapest 12gb/s sas raid card i've found. used but i dont understand why they are cheaper than the rest.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262729297569?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think I want to try to do an internal RAID.
so my dell mobo (6FW8P) has these PCIe slots.
1x PCIe2 x4
2x PCIe2 x8
2x PCIe2 x16
so PCIe 2.0 bandwidth caps at 500MB/s per lane.
wont 2.0 limit SAS's potential of 12GB/s?
say i have 3x SAS HDDs on RAID 0,
3 x 500MB/s per lane = 1500MB/s correct?
do i still have to get a 12gb/s SAS throughput or can I get away with 6GB/s SAS controller card and HDD?
Because im currently looking at those 12GB/s SAS raid cards on Ebay and *phew*
they're pricey af.
E: this is the cheapest 12gb/s sas raid card i've found. used but i dont understand why they are cheaper than the rest.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262729297569?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Bandwidth is most often measured in bits/sec. SAS is 12Gb/sec not GB/sec. Just divide by 8 to turn bytes into bits. So the theoretical max for SAS 6Gb is the same as SATA III, around 750MB/sec but after encoding and other overhead is really around 550MB/sec.
6Gb SAS will be fine, literally the only scenario i can think where 12Gb SAS is a benefit is where the channels are connected to a backplane and have to be shared, or are hooked up to high end enterprise SSD's.
Taking your current RAID card and SATA HDD's and adding a couple more to those 5.25 bays would the best option honestly.
6Gb SAS will be fine, literally the only scenario i can think where 12Gb SAS is a benefit is where the channels are connected to a backplane and have to be shared, or are hooked up to high end enterprise SSD's.
Taking your current RAID card and SATA HDD's and adding a couple more to those 5.25 bays would the best option honestly.
hmm, i've been trying to look at Sata III vs SAS 6gb/s speed tests for the past hour but i can't seem to find any.
do you know of any sites die?
I keep hearing people talk about how SAS is faster because it can pump data on two channels,
but i've yet come across head to head speed tests
do you know of any sites die?
I keep hearing people talk about how SAS is faster because it can pump data on two channels,
but i've yet come across head to head speed tests
You'll have to look for reviews for individual drives. Like http://www.storagereview.com/node/4111
That same drive comes in both NL-SAS and SATA flavors.
Interface speeds for spinning rust HDD's will be similar between drives. The biggest are things like platter density, which increase on newer or larger HDD's. Cache can effect speed, and obviously spindle speed is probably the largest.
That same drive comes in both NL-SAS and SATA flavors.
Interface speeds for spinning rust HDD's will be similar between drives. The biggest are things like platter density, which increase on newer or larger HDD's. Cache can effect speed, and obviously spindle speed is probably the largest.
thanks, gonna do a lot of digging this weekend.
I'm gonna look into 10k and 15k HDDs too, gonna see if they're worth the performance boost over 7.2k.
I'm gonna look into 10k and 15k HDDs too, gonna see if they're worth the performance boost over 7.2k.
So I'm about to revamp my PC / gaming setup. New custom desk, new pair of studio monitors and some other stuff ... all in preparation for the new PC build, to materialize in the following months. Might happen in March, might decide to wait a little longer. Depends on when I'll be getting a new monitor. All I know is it's going to be a 100hz+ ultrawide with g-sync. The HP Omen X 35 is looking a likely candidate. To get a better idea of how big a 34-35" 21:9 monitor actually is, I cut a piece of cardboard to size and ...
Goddamit. It's absolutely gargantuan. I was literally getting immersed just looking at a piece of cardboard, can't imagine how sensational playing something like The Witcher 3 would be. /disgonnabegood.jif
Anyway, I'll be wall mounting the monitor. Can anyone recommend a good wall mount + articulating arm?
Goddamit. It's absolutely gargantuan. I was literally getting immersed just looking at a piece of cardboard, can't imagine how sensational playing something like The Witcher 3 would be. /disgonnabegood.jif
Anyway, I'll be wall mounting the monitor. Can anyone recommend a good wall mount + articulating arm?
k brehs im getting close(r) to biting the bullet and doing a full new build--czech it out
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($349.75 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($27.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($123.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($93.99 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($93.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Video Card ($429.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1119.47
been reading that ram speed is the new thing, is it worth it spring the extra and go 3000 mhz or higher?
reusing an olde fractal design r3, will eventually get a smaller case hence why im doing matx, power supply is a 700w corsair and i've got a wd caviar black
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($349.75 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($27.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($123.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($93.99 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($93.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Video Card ($429.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1119.47
been reading that ram speed is the new thing, is it worth it spring the extra and go 3000 mhz or higher?
reusing an olde fractal design r3, will eventually get a smaller case hence why im doing matx, power supply is a 700w corsair and i've got a wd caviar black
Looks good to me. Look up some benchmarks comparing the 7700K you have linked and the i5-7600K to make sure the performance and feature difference is worth $100 to you.
RAM does have an effect, but I am uncertain as to how huge of one. It may still be worth upgrading to 3400 or 3600 for a little bit more. The speeds above that are much more expensive so those would be your best price/performance breakpoints.
RAM does have an effect, but I am uncertain as to how huge of one. It may still be worth upgrading to 3400 or 3600 for a little bit more. The speeds above that are much more expensive so those would be your best price/performance breakpoints.
250GB HD seems a bit small, unless you're going to be running a 1TB with it for storage?
As an aside, I've noticed that it's cheaper to get a 750W Corsair PSU than it is a 550W or 650W:
As an aside, I've noticed that it's cheaper to get a 750W Corsair PSU than it is a 550W or 650W:
By reilo Go To Post250GB HD seems a bit small, unless you're going to be running a 1TB with it for storage?Yeah, he said that he already has a WD Caviar Black.
cool, thanx for the reply. also re a monitor
I've got a pretty old asus 1080p monitor--would it be prudent to wait on jumping to 4k with only 8 gb of vram? (I'll probably get a 1180 or whatever the hell nvidia calls their next line of gpus in ayear)
I've got a pretty old asus 1080p monitor--would it be prudent to wait on jumping to 4k with only 8 gb of vram? (I'll probably get a 1180 or whatever the hell nvidia calls their next line of gpus in ayear)
By Red Blaster Go To Postcool, thanx for the reply. also re a monitorI'd wait. Computer monitors should start coming with HDR by the time you get that card next year. Might as well wait because that's a pretty big feature.
I've got a pretty old asus 1080p monitor–would it be prudent to wait on jumping to 4k with only 8 gb of vram? (I'll probably get a 1180 or whatever the hell nvidia calls their next line of gpus in ayear)
OK so im leaning towards doing a 4x SAS 6gb/s raid 0 to start. If I want to throw in more HDDs I'll just get an enclosure in the future. Failure isn't a problem as it will always be backed up.
Question is if there's any pros/Cons between 3.5 and 2.5 HDDs.
Question is if there's any pros/Cons between 3.5 and 2.5 HDDs.
By Red Blaster Go To Postcool, thanx for the reply. also re a monitoralso that board has two M.2 slots, you can say some space/cables, they are basically the same price as a 2.5'' SSD.
I've got a pretty old asus 1080p monitor–would it be prudent to wait on jumping to 4k with only 8 gb of vram? (I'll probably get a 1180 or whatever the hell nvidia calls their next line of gpus in ayear)
By Kabro Go To PostOK so im leaning towards doing a 4x SAS 6gb/s raid 0 to start. If I want to throw in more HDDs I'll just get an enclosure in the future. Failure isn't a problem as it will always be backed up.Have any specific models to compare?
Question is if there's any pros/Cons between 3.5 and 2.5 HDDs.
none yet, but I've been watching these on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compatible-Gen8-652589-B21-900GB-6G-SAS-10K-RPM-2-5-3rd-Party-Hard-Drive-/172087737199?hash=item28113a7b6f:g:vf8AAOSwX~dWsonz
also saw this, but I wasn't sure if I can remove the tray or not.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compatible-Gen8-652589-B21-900GB-10K-RPM-SAS-6GB-s-2-5-3rd-Party-Hard-Drive-/122213651477?hash=item1c74805415:g:6UIAAOSwiYFXKkQl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compatible-Gen8-652589-B21-900GB-6G-SAS-10K-RPM-2-5-3rd-Party-Hard-Drive-/172087737199?hash=item28113a7b6f:g:vf8AAOSwX~dWsonz
also saw this, but I wasn't sure if I can remove the tray or not.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compatible-Gen8-652589-B21-900GB-10K-RPM-SAS-6GB-s-2-5-3rd-Party-Hard-Drive-/122213651477?hash=item1c74805415:g:6UIAAOSwiYFXKkQl
By Smokey Go To PostWhere tf is the 1080tiWaiting until after you buy back in with a weaker card.
Just discovered I could get an Asus Hyper M.2 x4 adapter, plug into a x4 slot on my mobo, and I can now use NVMe SSDs. Need to check for a BIOS update but damn...That changes things. One of the main reasons I wanted to upgrade platforms was because of new storage options and DDR4.
How's the ASUS adapter I mentioned? I threw that one out there as I know it will work on my X79 Mobo with a BIOS update from reading an owner's thread.
Should work well. The BIOS update is actually probably more for just booting to an NVMe device, without it i bet its still usable.
Yeah that's what I meant. For some reason that never crossed my mind that I could use an adapter to get NVMe storage.
Most of the first NVMe drives came in AIC form actually. So something like an Intel 750 is still a good option too (just not as fast as a 960 Pro). If you want more of a traditional 2.5'' drive, you can also use a PCIe to U.2 adapter.
Got to the checkout screen of Newegg with a 1060. $265 and no tax or shipping. Aight. But then I started thinking of 1070 and pulled back lol
Where TFFFFF is the 1080ti my god
Where TFFFFF is the 1080ti my god
By Smokey Go To PostGot to the checkout screen of Newegg with a 1060. $265 and no tax or shipping. Aight. But then I started thinking of 1070 and pulled back lolI'm telling you, if you had clicked "Complete Transaction" on that Newegg page, it would be announced within a week. Since you didn't, now we all have to wait a couple months.
Where TFFFFF is the 1080ti my god
By Smokey Go To PostGot to the checkout screen of Newegg with a 1060. $265 and no tax or shipping. Aight. But then I started thinking of 1070 and pulled back lol
Where TFFFFF is the 1080ti my god
🤔
Maxwell peasant.
:p
By Smokey Go To PostKibner can you check my Steam page. How long since I last logged in. Curious.I don't believe we are friends on Steam so I don't have a link to your profile.
By Smokey Go To PostI'm a console pleb atm adam
👎
By Smokey Go To PostWe back B O Y ZHaha, what did you eventually get?
I got the ASUS RoG 1070 Strix
This is the first non EVGA card I've had since my first back in 2011, which were the MSI 580 Lightning Xtreme. I couldn't risk going with EVGA after they were fuking up the thermals on their 1070s.
Really well put together card. It's a very long card, longest I've had. Also has a backplate, which is a first for me. The second card you see in the pics is my sound card, fyi.
Stuff I did today
-Cleaned the rig. It was full of dust. The intakes, the H100, PSU fan. It was awful. I spent a good amount of time taking care of that and wiping everything down.
-Changed the orientation of the H100 and switched the cooling setup from intake to exhaust. Decided to keep the push/pull setup. You can see the 4 fans on the radiator in the pics. In total I've got 3x 120mm intake fans in the front of the case, 4x exhaust on the H100, and 1x 140mm exhaust in the back.
-Applied new thermal paste to the CPU. First time in a long time that's been done. My CPU temps are in the upper 20s and that's with manual voltage @ 1.38 @ 4.5ghz, 4930k 6 core. I'm actually going to reset the OC sometime tomorrow and start over. I think 1.38 is a bit high for my OC, but it's what I've been using for the past 2 years.
-Tons of updates to games and apps. Used DDU and completely wiped away the NVIDIA drivers that have been on there, and put a fresh install of the latest.
Down the road I want to replace the Corsair fans I have with Noctuas and maybe get some faster RAM. Other than that I'm good.
I realized that everything I have for my PC now has RGB. KB/M, GPU, fan controller, H100, motherboard, Swift monitor.
Right now I really don't care because I missed the fuck out of this ;_;
This is the first non EVGA card I've had since my first back in 2011, which were the MSI 580 Lightning Xtreme. I couldn't risk going with EVGA after they were fuking up the thermals on their 1070s.
Really well put together card. It's a very long card, longest I've had. Also has a backplate, which is a first for me. The second card you see in the pics is my sound card, fyi.
Stuff I did today
-Cleaned the rig. It was full of dust. The intakes, the H100, PSU fan. It was awful. I spent a good amount of time taking care of that and wiping everything down.
-Changed the orientation of the H100 and switched the cooling setup from intake to exhaust. Decided to keep the push/pull setup. You can see the 4 fans on the radiator in the pics. In total I've got 3x 120mm intake fans in the front of the case, 4x exhaust on the H100, and 1x 140mm exhaust in the back.
-Applied new thermal paste to the CPU. First time in a long time that's been done. My CPU temps are in the upper 20s and that's with manual voltage @ 1.38 @ 4.5ghz, 4930k 6 core. I'm actually going to reset the OC sometime tomorrow and start over. I think 1.38 is a bit high for my OC, but it's what I've been using for the past 2 years.
-Tons of updates to games and apps. Used DDU and completely wiped away the NVIDIA drivers that have been on there, and put a fresh install of the latest.
Down the road I want to replace the Corsair fans I have with Noctuas and maybe get some faster RAM. Other than that I'm good.
I realized that everything I have for my PC now has RGB. KB/M, GPU, fan controller, H100, motherboard, Swift monitor.
Right now I really don't care because I missed the fuck out of this ;_;
Messed around with the Halo Wars 2 beta and some Heaven benchmarking. My GPU never got above 65c with the stock fan curve and out of the box clocks, which are already OC. First non reference card I've bought in years. I'm amazed.
Pascal m8
Pascal m8
I'm using the MSI GTX 1070 GAMING X 8G and don't have any complaints. I haven't messed with trying to OC it or anything. I mainly got it because it was the quietest 1070 available at the time. That it also comes OC'd and has lots of headroom doesn't hurt at all.
Your post did remind me to go ahead and download the MSI software so that I can overclock it and do other things, too. Can't believe I hadn't installed that stuff, yet. lol