Is Durant having the best season since Jordan?
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32.2PPG/7.6RPG/5.6APG/50.7FG%...
And it doesn't stop there: 40.9% from three on 5.9 attempts and 87FT% on 10.1 attempts. Then throw in 1.3SPG for shits and giggles.
Lebron and Kobe have had some monster seasons, but nothing like this.
And it doesn't stop there: 40.9% from three on 5.9 attempts and 87FT% on 10.1 attempts. Then throw in 1.3SPG for shits and giggles.
Lebron and Kobe have had some monster seasons, but nothing like this.
32.2PPG/7.6RPG/5.6APG/50.7FG%...you've just alerted MVP and heavy.
And it doesn't stop there: 40.9% from three on 5.9 attempts and 87FT% on 10.1 attempts. Then throw in 1.3SPG for shits and giggles.
Lebron and Kobe have had some monster seasons, but nothing like this.
what have you done......
32.2PPG/7.6RPG/5.6APG/50.7FG%...
And it doesn't stop there: 40.9% from three on 5.9 attempts and 87FT% on 10.1 attempts. Then throw in 1.3SPG for shits and giggles.
Lebron and Kobe have had some monster seasons, but nothing like this.
It is legitimately possible that he is playing at another level for an entire season.
Not just a stretch.
Guys have had months like that, and got paid for their career.
And you got to remember, for most of that, the 2nd best player on that team is Ibaka or Reggie Jackson.
And here's the kicked. He's doing this, in the West. Nuts.
Yeah, it's mindblowing. He has no deficiencies in his game right now -- especially offensively. There's not a single area I look at and think, "man, if he was only a better freethrow shooter, or a better three-point shooter, or more efficient..."32.2PPG/7.6RPG/5.6APG/50.7FG%...
And it doesn't stop there: 40.9% from three on 5.9 attempts and 87FT% on 10.1 attempts. Then throw in 1.3SPG for shits and giggles.
Lebron and Kobe have had some monster seasons, but nothing like this.
It is legitimately possible that he is playing at another level for an entire season.
Not just a stretch.
Guys have had months like that, and got paid for their career.
And you got to remember, for most of that, the 2nd best player on that team is Ibaka or Reggie Jackson.
And here's the kicked. He's doing this, in the West. Nuts.
None of those questionmarks exist for him this season, which is not the case with Kobe or Lebron with some of their astounding performances they've had the past decade.
Per 36 numbers because Durant played slightly more minutes than Jordan.
Peak Jordan: 30.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 5.4 APG, 125 ORtg
2014 Durant: 30.0 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 5.4 APG, 124 ORtg
The Bulls and Thunder played at the same pace, 2014 defenses are slightly tougher than 1991 defenses.
Peak Jordan: 30.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 5.4 APG, 125 ORtg
2014 Durant: 30.0 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 5.4 APG, 124 ORtg
The Bulls and Thunder played at the same pace, 2014 defenses are slightly tougher than 1991 defenses.
By what metric?
WS/48? He''s behind 2013/2009 LBJ, 91/96 MJ,
PER? He's behind LBJ's and MJ's best
He's having an amazing season but I think 2009 or 2013 LBJ is the best single season since Jordan.
WS/48? He''s behind 2013/2009 LBJ, 91/96 MJ,
PER? He's behind LBJ's and MJ's best
He's having an amazing season but I think 2009 or 2013 LBJ is the best single season since Jordan.
To me it's not even numbers based. Watching him is unlike anything I've seen in years. He's inhuman at times.
The best scoring season since Jordan, yeah I think he's got it. Lebron was better overall last year though.
Yep.LeBron will still win MVP but Durant is better this seasonlol wat
KD has MVP locked up.
Last night locked it up.
LeBron will still win MVP but Durant is better this seasonlol wat
KD has MVP locked up.
Unless YNB comes back and tanks it for him.
Dwayne Casey was just making this comparison after he played Toronto on Friday:
Oh BTW Durant's secretly a Raptor lifelong:
...and it's the entire organization's mission to sign him here:
http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2014/03/21/kevin_durant_just_what_raptors_need_kelly.html
BRB, holding my breath for two years.
“His range is out of control,” Casey said. “There’s going to be a point in his career where those legs aren’t going to be there, so he’s going to have to go down to the block. And that’s going to be death, too. Once he gets that post-up game and that outside game, (it’ll be) a lot like Jordan did. He’s going to get that old-man strength eventually. He’s still got such a high ceiling.”
Oh BTW Durant's secretly a Raptor lifelong:
He sent ripples through the city last year when he told radio host Dan Patrick that he grew up a Raptors fan. Patrick, caught off guard, injected an entire league’s worth of derision into the incredulous follow-up: “Why?”
He doubled down on that sentiment Friday.
“(I)’ve always been a big Toronto fan. I was definitely a fan (an upward tilt of the head and a small smile) but I play for Oklahoma City now.”
...and it's the entire organization's mission to sign him here:
Raptors GM Masai Ujiri does his evaluation in small chunks, normally, six games at a time. The larger MLSE apparatus thinks longer term. The most ambitious of those macro ambitions involves luring Durant to Toronto.
Kevin Durant is Drake’s Manhattan Project. Luring the second-best player in basketball would allow him to retire as a volunteer recruiter and start owning a chunk of this thing. Durant in two years is Drake’s finish line.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2014/03/21/kevin_durant_just_what_raptors_need_kelly.html
BRB, holding my breath for two years.
RT @ESPNStatsInfo: Kevin Durant has 34 straight 25-pt games entering tonight, the longest single-season streak since Jordan in 1986-87 (40 in a row)
What about 2000 Shaq? Of course Durant's scoring is more efficient due to FT% and 3pt shot, but Shaq's defense was stellar that season (making most of his career a bit disappointing on defense since we saw he could be awesome at it). Things like Win Shares will underrate that (though he wasn't far behind Durant on that, over .28).
Should also be stated that while Shaq and Durant shot the same number of FTs per game, essentially, all of Shaq's FTs care during the "natural" course of the game where Durant gets numerous ones from intentional late game fouling. Of course, he deserves credit for being the best FT shooter on his team, but Shaq be fouled that much put other teammates on the line more often than they normally would have been put there.
And I also think it's fair to point out that Shaq put up his offensive numbers despite being fouled virtually every play. And not on the ticky-tack variety; he was being hacked on half his baskets to no whistle simply because it wasn't "fair." Every other NBA player gets those calls when they happen but were often ignored for him that season. Sadly, people who didn't watch Shaq growing up in many years from now won't realize this was his reality.
I'm not saying Shaq had a better overall season than Durant (or Lebron or Kobe or even '02/03 Duncan) but that he should at least be in the convsersation. I think you could very much argue Durant is having the best offensive season since Jordan (I think it's better than Lebron's if we're only talking offense). Overall, I think there's a few in the conversation and it's really hard to pick one over another.
Should also be stated that while Shaq and Durant shot the same number of FTs per game, essentially, all of Shaq's FTs care during the "natural" course of the game where Durant gets numerous ones from intentional late game fouling. Of course, he deserves credit for being the best FT shooter on his team, but Shaq be fouled that much put other teammates on the line more often than they normally would have been put there.
And I also think it's fair to point out that Shaq put up his offensive numbers despite being fouled virtually every play. And not on the ticky-tack variety; he was being hacked on half his baskets to no whistle simply because it wasn't "fair." Every other NBA player gets those calls when they happen but were often ignored for him that season. Sadly, people who didn't watch Shaq growing up in many years from now won't realize this was his reality.
I'm not saying Shaq had a better overall season than Durant (or Lebron or Kobe or even '02/03 Duncan) but that he should at least be in the convsersation. I think you could very much argue Durant is having the best offensive season since Jordan (I think it's better than Lebron's if we're only talking offense). Overall, I think there's a few in the conversation and it's really hard to pick one over another.
That's a nice way of saying "if we discredit Durant's great freethrow shooting...", which is total bullshit.
Natural course of the game? lol hack-a-Shaq is a legit play on defense...
I think Shaq had better just due to his position but making shit up is not helping his case
I think Shaq had better just due to his position but making shit up is not helping his case
Let's put it this way... Yao Ming was a 83FT% shooter on 6.1FTA for his career.
One season he averaged 86FT% on 8.6FTA. In 2001, Shaq almost missed as many freethrows that season as Yao did his entire career.
One season he averaged 86FT% on 8.6FTA. In 2001, Shaq almost missed as many freethrows that season as Yao did his entire career.
Durant is having the best season since Jordan. Now the thing is that he has to do this in the playoffs.
Durant is having the best season since Jordan. Now the thing is that he has to do this in the playoffs.This is true. I doubt we'll see anyone average 40/8/7 in the Finals again.
That's a nice way of saying "if we discredit Durant's great freethrow shooting...", which is total bullshit.
No, I specifically said he should get credit for it.
What I was trying to argue is that Shaq got fouled more during the non-intentional fouling to catch up phase of the game which meant more FTs for teammates throughout the game (or playing weaker defense).
Think of it this way. Say for 47 min Shaq averaged 10 FTs and Durant averaged 8. In the final minute Durant averages 2 and Shaq zero. Durant deserves credit for being the guy to shoot the intentional FTs, no doubt, but is his value shooting those 2 FTs late opposed to a teammate to preserve a lead as great as the value Shaq gets putting the other team into foul trouble earlier?
I'm not providing the answer, only saying it should be part of the equation.
Natural course of the game? lol hack-a-Shaq is a legit play on defense...
By "nautral course," I simply mean when one team isn't fouling on purpose because of the clock. I didn't know a better terminology to use.
lol c'mon Mamba
My mantra is, that if you are having a historically great season, but the caveat being that you are also historically bad at a particular category (in Shaq's case, he's the worst freethrow shooter of all time), then that puts you a peg down in the discussion of "greatest seasons ever". I don't really care for what rationale you are trying to come up with (more FTs for teammates??), because the fact is still this: Shaq's godawful freethrow shooting was a huge negative, but he was still great enough to overcome that.
Which brings me back to Durant... I really can't look at anything he's doing this season and honestly argue "he needs to be better at". I can't. Neither can Heat fans.
My mantra is, that if you are having a historically great season, but the caveat being that you are also historically bad at a particular category (in Shaq's case, he's the worst freethrow shooter of all time), then that puts you a peg down in the discussion of "greatest seasons ever". I don't really care for what rationale you are trying to come up with (more FTs for teammates??), because the fact is still this: Shaq's godawful freethrow shooting was a huge negative, but he was still great enough to overcome that.
Which brings me back to Durant... I really can't look at anything he's doing this season and honestly argue "he needs to be better at
Well, if Shaq scored 40ppg that year with the same FT% (and all else except FGA and FTA equal), you wouldn't actually knock him down for that FT%, would you?
We're talking about seasons, not skills. And often these arguments don't include defense enough, which Shaq's impact in 2000 was far greater than Durant's now (and yes, Durant could use getting even better on defense, still).
Would you rather have 2000 Shaq or 2014 durant for a single season?
Who had the overall better season? It's hard to say. There's many factors to look at. Different rules, for one (would Durant's numbers go down if he played in 2000? Would Shaq's go down now?). That's why I said Shaq deserves to be in the convo.
Personally, I think you just put them in a group and says "these were the best seasons." I don't think one specifically stands out above the others. Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Durant, and Timmy each had god-tier seasons and that's good enough to me. I see no point in ranking them apart from one another, really.
We're talking about seasons, not skills. And often these arguments don't include defense enough, which Shaq's impact in 2000 was far greater than Durant's now (and yes, Durant could use getting even better on defense, still).
Would you rather have 2000 Shaq or 2014 durant for a single season?
Who had the overall better season? It's hard to say. There's many factors to look at. Different rules, for one (would Durant's numbers go down if he played in 2000? Would Shaq's go down now?). That's why I said Shaq deserves to be in the convo.
Personally, I think you just put them in a group and says "these were the best seasons." I don't think one specifically stands out above the others. Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Durant, and Timmy each had god-tier seasons and that's good enough to me. I see no point in ranking them apart from one another, really.
If Shaq scored 40ppg that year with the same FT%...
But he didn't. I'm not gonna argue that kinda inane hypothetical with you.
Shaqs season was amazing. But i agree with the rest, it was probably half a percentage point below what durant is doing.
If Shaq scored 40ppg that year with the same FT%...
But he didn't. I'm not gonna argue that kinda inane hypothetical with you.
No, I was just trying to shoot down this line:
"My mantra is, that if you are having a historically great season, but the caveat being that you are also historically bad at a particular category "
You're saying that if Shaq scored 40ppg, you'd hold on to that mantra. Same if he scored 70ppg. I just didn't like the steadfastness.
I have no problem you arguing the FT shooting puts that season below Durant's. I have a problem you saying that if any player is bad at one thing, he will never have the best season no matter what.
The biggest problem with your post was your claim that Kobe has had a historically great season on par with those other guys.
Well KD's advanced stats have calmed down but I suspect he stopped giving a fuck which is appropriate around this time of the year.
<30 PER
<.300 WS/48
<40% 3PT
Fucking fantastic season and he's the obvious MVP but best season since Jordan looks like a bit much now.
<30 PER
<.300 WS/48
<40% 3PT
Fucking fantastic season and he's the obvious MVP but best season since Jordan looks like a bit much now.
The question was "best since" not "better than". And I think the latter is still a resounding "yes". He was a a total of 3% away from having a 32PPG 50/40/90. That's nuts.
I know what the question was.
disagree, would take 2009/10/13 Bron, 2000 Shaq. That's just on offense. If we include defense then Duncan and Garnett come into the picture as well.
But I'll agree with kad that it's the best scoring season since Jordan though.
disagree, would take 2009/10/13 Bron, 2000 Shaq. That's just on offense. If we include defense then Duncan and Garnett come into the picture as well.
But I'll agree with kad that it's the best scoring season since Jordan though.
I don't think either Lebron or Shaq were as good offensively, especially given Shaq's worst-ever freethrow shooting. Lebron was a terrible three-point shooter in 09/10 and scored less PPG on the same FG%.
I don't think either Lebron or Shaq were as good offensively, especially given Shaq's worst-ever freethrow shooting. Lebron was a terrible three-point shooter in 09/10 and scored less PPG on the same FG%.Does passing or assists not count as offense? LeBron averaged 8.6 assists in 2010, as a small forward while scoring 30 a game. only three guys have done that, Oscar, MJ and Bron. shaq's averages and efficiency alone speak for itself. 30-14-4 on 57% shooting? Not to mention that Shaq is probably the most dominant player this side of Wilt? I don't see KD's offense being better, they're on the same plane but Bron's assist numbers and Shaq's dominance more than make up for their deficiencies at the charity stripe or behind the 3 point line.
Then if we talk about defense, I don't know how strong KD's case would be.
You're comparing a 7'2 300lb center scoring 30PPG on 57FG% -- a guy that never took a shot outside of 10ft to a perimeter player. The degree of skill to achieve essentially 50/40/90 as primarily a jumpshooter is world's apart -- especially at his extreme 3PAr (6.1/game). Shaq is arguably the worst freethrow shooter of all time -- and that is a huge mark against him.
I also don't care as much about assist numbers in this context considering Durant is averaging 5.5APG (which is still astounding for a SF, and in fact #2 in the league this year) and isn't tasked with being the pointguard on his team like Lebron was.
It also gets exponentially more difficult to score from 20 to 25PPG and then 25 to 30PPG. The jump from 30 to 32PPG is as difficult as the jump from 25 to 30PPG. This is why you can count the number of people that averaged 32PPG on 50FG% since 1990 on three fingers: Jordan, Malone, and now Durant. Want to get more granular? Throw in 39 3PT% into the mix and it's down to one player, of all time: Kevin Durant. I can lower that to 30PPG, 50FG%, and 35 3PT% on 3 3PTA and that list now reads: Kevin Durant, Larry Bird. That's it. You won't even find anyone that has done this at Durant's rates on 32PPG -- and we might not see it again for a couple more decades.
I also don't care as much about assist numbers in this context considering Durant is averaging 5.5APG (which is still astounding for a SF, and in fact #2 in the league this year) and isn't tasked with being the pointguard on his team like Lebron was.
It also gets exponentially more difficult to score from 20 to 25PPG and then 25 to 30PPG. The jump from 30 to 32PPG is as difficult as the jump from 25 to 30PPG. This is why you can count the number of people that averaged 32PPG on 50FG% since 1990 on three fingers: Jordan, Malone, and now Durant. Want to get more granular? Throw in 39 3PT% into the mix and it's down to one player, of all time: Kevin Durant. I can lower that to 30PPG, 50FG%, and 35 3PT% on 3 3PTA and that list now reads: Kevin Durant, Larry Bird. That's it. You won't even find anyone that has done this at Durant's rates on 32PPG -- and we might not see it again for a couple more decades.
very impressive. 2013 LeBron : 26.8 ppg, 56.5FG%,40.63PT%(3 attempts)
Wanna know the number of players that have averaged 26 points on 56FG% and 403PT%? one.
I get it that KD's shooting numbers are insane but some of bron/shaq's numbers are just as insane.
Wanna know the number of players that have averaged 26 points on 56FG% and 403PT%? one.
I get it that KD's shooting numbers are insane but some of bron/shaq's numbers are just as insane.
The number of three-point attempts do not impress me, at all. KD is shooting that on double the attempts per game. Throw in his superior FT%...
Nobody said Lebron's/Shaq's weren't insane, just that they have red flags offensively. I don't see any of those flags in Durant's numbers.
Nobody said Lebron's/Shaq's weren't insane, just that they have red flags offensively. I don't see any of those flags in Durant's numbers.
I guess we agree to disagree. LeBron being the best finisher at the rim ever is more than compensates for him not taking more threes.
Ever? Uhm...
Kevin Durant this season: 363 FGA at rim, 80FG%
Lebron: 540 FGA at rim, 80FG%
Lebron, in 2010: 596 FGA at rim, 73FG%
And I wish I had Jordan's numbers, but they must be up there since his career 3PTA is 1.7/game.
Kevin Durant this season: 363 FGA at rim, 80FG%
Lebron: 540 FGA at rim, 80FG%
Lebron, in 2010: 596 FGA at rim, 73FG%
And I wish I had Jordan's numbers, but they must be up there since his career 3PTA is 1.7/game.
You're comparing a 7'2 300lb center scoring 30PPG on 57FG% -- a guy that never took a shot outside of 10ft to a perimeter player. The degree of skill to achieve essentially 50/40/90 as primarily a jumpshooter is world's apart -- especially at his extreme 3PAr (6.1/game). Shaq is arguably the worst freethrow shooter of all time -- and that is a huge mark against him.
I also don't care as much about assist numbers in this context considering Durant is averaging 5.5APG (which is still astounding for a SF, and in fact #2 in the league this year) and isn't tasked with being the pointguard on his team like Lebron was.
It also gets exponentially more difficult to score from 20 to 25PPG and then 25 to 30PPG. The jump from 30 to 32PPG is as difficult as the jump from 25 to 30PPG. This is why you can count the number of people that averaged 32PPG on 50FG% since 1990 on three fingers: Jordan, Malone, and now Durant. Want to get more granular? Throw in 39 3PT% into the mix and it's down to one player, of all time: Kevin Durant. I can lower that to 30PPG, 50FG%, and 35 3PT% on 3 3PTA and that list now reads: Kevin Durant, Larry Bird. That's it. You won't even find anyone that has done this at Durant's rates on 32PPG -- and we might not see it again for a couple more decades.
Why are you discussing skill? Of course Durant is more skilled than Shaq. But the question is if it's the best season. I think Shaq's 2000 season can be argued as better overall.
Skill isn't relevant, only production.
Why are you discussing skill? Of course Durant is more skilled than Shaq. But the question is if it's the best season. I think Shaq's 2000 season can be argued as better overall.You piece of shit that's not what you said when arguing for some of Kobe's seasons!
Skill isn't relevant, only production.
Why are you discussing skill? Of course Durant is more skilled than Shaq. But the question is if it's the best season. I think Shaq's 2000 season can be argued as better overall.You piece of shit that's not what you said when arguing for some of Kobe's seasons!
Skill isn't relevant, only production.
When did I argue for some of Kobe's seasons? I only mentioned them in passing (along with others like Duncan).
Durant isn't tasked with being the PG because he can't be the PG and lead a great offense like Lebron can. It's not a question of role; it's a question of talent. It's not like a forward getting more rebounds than a guard simply by being closer to the basket.
Last year, Lebron with his passing, and scoring, impacted an offense on a higher level than Durant. He was also the better defender. So he was better on both sides of the ball.
Last year, Lebron with his passing, and scoring, impacted an offense on a higher level than Durant. He was also the better defender. So he was better on both sides of the ball.
Durant isn't tasked with being the PG because he can't be the PG and lead a great offense like Lebron can. It's not a question of role; it's a question of talent. It's not like a forward getting more rebounds than a guard simply by being closer to the basket.
Last year, Lebron with his passing, and scoring, impacted an offense on a higher level than Durant. He was also the better defender. So he was better on both sides of the ball.
Woah.
Whilst LBJ, when he's focused on it, is a good defender. Lets not go all re-writing history here. He has as many average defensive possessions as any wing on their level.
Durant isn't tasked with being the PG because he can't be the PG and lead a great offense like Lebron can. It's not a question of role; it's a question of talent. It's not like a forward getting more rebounds than a guard simply by being closer to the basket.KD showed he's more than capable of carrying the team and the offense as a whole during the stretch when Westbrook was out.
Last year, Lebron with his passing, and scoring, impacted an offense on a higher level than Durant. He was also the better defender. So he was better on both sides of the ball.
The bulk of the time the Thunder had to deal with playing out Westbrook was from Dec. 26 to Feb. 20, when he returned after the All-Star break. During that time, the Thunder went 19-7, which included a 10-game winning streak. Durant over that 26-game stretch: 35.0 points on 52.7/39.9/87.8, 7.5 rebounds and 6.3 assists.
http://dailythunder.com/2014/04/kevin-durant-is-without-question-the-2013-14-mvp/
