Greece elections shit.
- Page 1 of 1
Some interesting stuff happened in Greece, where the country is so fucked up economically that nearly 30% of its labor force is unemployed. An anti-austerity party was voted it. I'm pretty indifferent between austerity vs. lots of fiscal stimulus, but this is going to be interesting to see. Germany and the rest of the EU has forced Greece to limit spending to pay off its debts, so they're not going to be particularly happy about this... And then the new prime minister used Nazi allusions to criticize Germany.
And others in his party keep comparing austerity to actual, physical torture. Now I totally am I in favor of considering how impactful economic policies can be, but uhh... That's pretty not classy there.
Alexis being a literal communist is also weird. The anti-austerity policies he's suggesting are probably fine, but this dude seems like a total asshole with limited comprehension of reality as a whole.
And in other Greek election news, the Greek Nazi Party won 6.3% of the vote despite having to campaign from prison due to being investigated for murdering an anti-racism rapper.
An anti-austerity government is probably going to be elected in Spain in the next few months too. This is going to be super interesting to follow and hopefully the Greek people can stop suffering from this depression.
But it's not just the future that's on Syriza's agenda. In what was virtually his first act as prime minister Monday, Tsipras journeyed to the memorial site at the Kaisariani rifle range, where in 1944 Nazi soldiers executed some 200 Greek activists in retaliation for the death of a German officer killed in a Greek ambush.
The visit was drenched in symbolism. The past half-decade of crippling austerity in Greece is the consequence of terms dictated by the "troika" — the European Commission, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Germany, Europe's largest economy, played a key role in delivering Greece's bailout and enforcing its strict conditions. Ill will toward Germany is high in Greece, where ordinary citizens blame their country's dire economic state in part on the high-handed policies of a distant European elite.
Syriza, in particular, has been outspoken about the need for Germany to atone for its past in Greece, or at least show a bit more leniency now as compensation. Tsipras has campaigned on the issue for more than a year, including in the build-up to Sunday's election. "We are going to demand debt reduction, and the money Germany owes us from World War II, including reparations," he said earlier this month.
And others in his party keep comparing austerity to actual, physical torture. Now I totally am I in favor of considering how impactful economic policies can be, but uhh... That's pretty not classy there.
Alexis being a literal communist is also weird. The anti-austerity policies he's suggesting are probably fine, but this dude seems like a total asshole with limited comprehension of reality as a whole.
And in other Greek election news, the Greek Nazi Party won 6.3% of the vote despite having to campaign from prison due to being investigated for murdering an anti-racism rapper.
An anti-austerity government is probably going to be elected in Spain in the next few months too. This is going to be super interesting to follow and hopefully the Greek people can stop suffering from this depression.
Syriza being a literal communist is also weird. The anti-austerity policies he's suggesting are probably fine, but this dude seems like a total asshole with limited comprehension of reality as a whole.
I appreciate that a growing number of people take an interest in European politics, but that is probably one of the most ironic and empty sentences of the forum. Talk about comprehending the real world? The socialist/communist movements are important in European history, it is not "weird" for Europeans. There has always been a relatively strong anti-capitalist sentiment, one that even helped mainstream politicians that knew how to ride the wave, but it was never quite in the position Syriza is in now. The Syriza election is crucial because it is the first time that an election is won by a party to the Left of traditional government parties (by that I mean to the left of socialists and communists from the 2nd and 3rd Internationals).
I'm mostly talking about invoking Nazi allusions and torture allusions to refer to economic policies that are open questions even in academic circles.
And communism is a nonsensical economic idea that has no theoretical or empirical support. His ideas are not communist, but him being a communist just is another weird thing about him.
And communism is a nonsensical economic idea that has no theoretical or empirical support. His ideas are not communist, but him being a communist just is another weird thing about him.
By IWMTB19I'm mostly talking about invoking Nazi allusions and torture allusions to refer to economic policies that are open questions even in academic circles.
You're kindly invited to re-read the article you posted. Or find a quote of his that states what you're saying.
If you think austerity is not physical violence by the way, I'm guessing you do not realize that many Greeks can not afford gas anymore to commute to their work, when they have one.
Because I'm sure you do not think that the memory of the militants of the past that were killed should not be remembered.
But if you truly believe Tsipras equates the holocaust with today, then I doubt you're truly willing to follow the situation.
And communism is a nonsensical economic idea that has no theoretical or empirical support.
Communism is the proposition that the most important means of production should be owned by the public through democratic control. You've accepted that it makes sense for schools and firemen service. Do not belittle the big number of citizens around the world that believe it should be the same for oil-drilling and pharmaceutical companies, since capitalists maybe should not have the right to make a fortune on destroying the environment or imposing health costs that threaten the survival of sick people.
Also, the literature is extensive.
You might also want to take a moment to reflect on the fact that you live in a country where the majority of Congress is in the hands of a party which just had a meeting in Iowa full of crazy moments, including Palin rambling like she is about to have a seizure, and Ted Cruz who argued, under thunderous applause, against environmental control of farming, for a flat tax and thought it would be funny to mention sending all IRS agents to the Mexican border. And what about that nice debate in session lately, where a big number of representatives are not willing to recognize that global warming is mainly caused by human activity?
By the way, have you heard that the Koch brothers are about to spend 900 millions in campaign money in 2016? Yeah, wanting a society freed from exploitation and the involvement of big money in politics is "weird" in comparison. Enjoy the Kool-Aid, at least some Greeks are making efforts towards a society where democracy should not be bought by the Troika or by corporations.
By GabyskraCommunism is the proposition that the most important means of production should be owned by the public through democratic control. You've accepted that it makes sense for schools and firemen service.
That's only a part definition, or a selective version of Communism. Full / True communism is the abolition of class and in most cases, money, also. Means of production is also a debated concept to the extent that the state wishes to go on in partial communist set ups; is the tractor that the farmer uses in the rice field the states or the farmers?
But don't get me wrong, I've always been confused at the negativity people try to tag onto socialist schemes. Just that, we know full communism doesn't work because of human greed. The opposite is also true, full capitalism (or as close to it as we have seen) with America ... seems to be close to failing.
By the way, have you heard that the Koch brothers are about to spend 900 millions in campaign money in 2016? Yeah, wanting a society freed from exploitation and the involvement of big money in politics is "weird" in comparison. Enjoy the Kool-Aid, at least some Greeks are making efforts towards a society where democracy should not be bought by the Troika or by corporations.
I don't think anyone disagree's that Americas system is fucked up and needs extensive reform. But it doesn't mean that what's happening elsewhere doesn't also deserve review.
The EU have a lot to answer for in letting Greece get as bad as it did. But they've also forgiven billions in loans. Trying to evoke past war events to excuse your current policies (events that are also about 70 years old this year [ww2 ended in 1945]) to me is a warning sign. It usually means that your policies aren't grounded in rational logic and need to be covered up.
I read tons of economic and political literature, cut that nonsense out.
Also, what is with Commies and their obsession with Russia:
Yeah, I get that you loved the Soviet Union for whatever reason, but Russia today is just a country that invades other countries for land, has 110 people controlling all of the wealth, suppresses the media, and actively tries to prevent the LGBT community from being able to live their lives.
I mean... Every bad thing about America is amplified over and over again in Russia and Russia has no money.
Also, what is with Commies and their obsession with Russia:
Greece’s new government questioned moves to impose more sanctions on Russia, adding a foreign-policy angle to its challenge to the status quo in Europe.
Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s Syriza-led coalition said it opposed a European Union statement issued in Brussels Tuesday paving the way to additional curbs on the Kremlin over the conflict in Ukraine, and complained it hadn’t been consulted.
“Greece doesn’t consent,” the government said in a statement. It added that the announcement violated “proper procedure” by not first securing Greece’s agreement.
Yeah, I get that you loved the Soviet Union for whatever reason, but Russia today is just a country that invades other countries for land, has 110 people controlling all of the wealth, suppresses the media, and actively tries to prevent the LGBT community from being able to live their lives.
I mean... Every bad thing about America is amplified over and over again in Russia and Russia has no money.
I encourage everyone to read this article to understand what happened in Greece.
While the economic bubble was expanding, the entire country collectively didn't pay its taxes, spent outrageously, and enjoyed living standards it couldn't afford. When the clock struck midnight and the bubble burst, the deficits uncovered were unprecedented in history for such a small nation. Germany reluctantly bailed them out to avoid a Eurozone collapse, with the stipulation that Greece had to get its books in order and its budgets balanced.
This has obviously had a devastating impact on everyday life in Greece, but that was going to happen no matter what. The Greek people do not accept any responsibility for their own situation and instead blame Germany for all their suffering, gravitating towards extremist parties that tell them what they want to hear.
It's worth noting that Syriza is bankrolled by Putin, who is mismanaging what's left of Russia's reserves by investing in political troublemaking across Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see this lead to a collapse of the Eurozone, which is really what this is all about.
The best case scenario for Greece and the world is that the responsibility of actually governing forces Syriza to become more practical than ideological.
While the economic bubble was expanding, the entire country collectively didn't pay its taxes, spent outrageously, and enjoyed living standards it couldn't afford. When the clock struck midnight and the bubble burst, the deficits uncovered were unprecedented in history for such a small nation. Germany reluctantly bailed them out to avoid a Eurozone collapse, with the stipulation that Greece had to get its books in order and its budgets balanced.
This has obviously had a devastating impact on everyday life in Greece, but that was going to happen no matter what. The Greek people do not accept any responsibility for their own situation and instead blame Germany for all their suffering, gravitating towards extremist parties that tell them what they want to hear.
It's worth noting that Syriza is bankrolled by Putin, who is mismanaging what's left of Russia's reserves by investing in political troublemaking across Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see this lead to a collapse of the Eurozone, which is really what this is all about.The best case scenario for Greece and the world is that the responsibility of actually governing forces Syriza to become more practical than ideological.
Don't you guys know that IWMTB knows everything about everything, and he reads literature and things.
Read the live updates here from The Guardian, a left leaning UK paper.
Long story short, the effect has already been catastrophic.
Greece is pretty fucked unless Syriza gets real. The crazy thing is that the worst was already over and this damage is completely self-inflicted.
Holger Schmieding, chief economist at German bank Berenberg has recently returned from Athens and is fired up over the situation in Greece.
Long story short, the effect has already been catastrophic.
Greece is pretty fucked unless Syriza gets real. The crazy thing is that the worst was already over and this damage is completely self-inflicted.
The five-year bond which Greece sold to investors last April, in its triumphant return to the markets, has hit its lowest ever level.
The yield on the debt (which moves inversely to the price) hit an all-time high of 13.5% this morning; showing a greater risk that Greece will default.
It’s remarkable to think that Greece was swamped with demand at that auction. It sold €3bn of debt, but received offers for €20bn. Investors clearly believed that the Greek debt crisis was over….
Holger Schmieding, chief economist at German bank Berenberg has recently returned from Athens and is fired up over the situation in Greece.
Just back from Athens, I feel almost compelled to shout it from the rooftops: it’s not about the debt. it’s about the economy, stupid - to borrow a phrase from Bill Clinton.
In Athens, much of the discussions I had revolved around the debt: how much will Europe cut the burden now that Greek voters have asked for it? Or: wouldn’t it be cheaper for Europe to write off half its claims on Greece than to risk losing it all?
The new Greek government and its voters are in for a reality shock. The debate in Athens seems to suffer from four delusions.
My best bet remains that, facing reality, prime minister Tsipras will eventually get real. A patient Europe will offer face-saving compromises. As a wily and power-conscious operator, Tsipras could still do a Lula-style U-turn instead of ending up in history books as the prime minister who broke his country.
But it could be a close call. And it could well be a rough ride for Greece first before Syriza bows to reality. If worst came to worst in Athens, and I still believe it won’t come to that, Europe would rather cut its losses than fund the perennial basket case into which an overdose of populist policies could turn Greece. The risk of accidental Grexit is real. We put it at 35%, well below par but still serious.
Fortunately, Europe would have the defences it needs to contain the potential financial and economic contagion. The real issue to watch in Euope is the risk of political contagion. Will the likely clash between Syriza and reality deflate the allure of populists in Rome, Madrid and Paris or stoke the populist anger against the indignities of real life? We bet that reason will prevail despite the occasional hiccup.
I doubt it happens because of all the politics involved but couldn't Greece renegotiate a longer loan to ease the day to day effects of the austerity measures?
Opiate banned me from GAF for responding calling a "Russian should invade the Ukraine" truther a lunatic for posting that image positively.
And Opiate even said he strongly agreed with me in the ban message :(
I'm studying to be an economics PhD soon, I read economic books all the time. I've read dozens of Marxist papers and the entire of das Kapital, they're all garbage, based on really bad premises. I've debated with Marxists for years and none of them are worth arguing with on those terms since they spew out garbage only. I'll debate a Marxist when they've read Nobel Prize winning Macro, political econ, and IO papers while they're bitching at me to read Marx shit I've already read.
I know very little about biology and physics, I know nothing about soccer, I know very little about most sports other than basketball, I'm still learning about being good at my volunteer job. I follow basketball, math, economics, and politics a lot and psychology a bit and I do feel like I know a good deal about those things. Stay mad.
And Opiate even said he strongly agreed with me in the ban message :(
By VahagnDon't you guys know that IWMTB knows everything about everything, and he reads literature and things.
I'm studying to be an economics PhD soon, I read economic books all the time. I've read dozens of Marxist papers and the entire of das Kapital, they're all garbage, based on really bad premises. I've debated with Marxists for years and none of them are worth arguing with on those terms since they spew out garbage only. I'll debate a Marxist when they've read Nobel Prize winning Macro, political econ, and IO papers while they're bitching at me to read Marx shit I've already read.
I know very little about biology and physics, I know nothing about soccer, I know very little about most sports other than basketball, I'm still learning about being good at my volunteer job. I follow basketball, math, economics, and politics a lot and psychology a bit and I do feel like I know a good deal about those things. Stay mad.