Child falls into Gorilla enclosure. Public upset with...

Children like to wander and explore things. That's how we learn. That's life.

Sucks that the Gorilla is dead. Good that the boy is OK. On to the next one.

Zoos are pretty shit and that one even had an incident of Polar Bears going where they shouldn't due to employee error or something. If it's on the Zoo to protect the animals the enclosures should be better than that imo. People are either stupid or malicious and kids will be kids, if all it takes is one human error to kill one of the animals then ambiance be damned the enclosure should do a better job of keeping people out and or there should be better/more security.

I'd blame the zoo for poor facilities and security too.
But then again I'm not a big fan of the whole zoo thing, animals should live free

What a shit ass enclosure are you kidding me.

Someone could easily fall over that thing and be horribly injured even if a kid didn't climb over it to get in. Accident waiting to happen. How is that enclosure for something like a fucking gorilla acceptable?

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostWhat a shit ass enclosure are you kidding me.

Someone could easily fall over that thing and be horribly injured even if a kid didn't climb over it to get in. Accident waiting to happen. How is that enclosure for something like a fucking gorilla acceptable?

Holy fuck, that's terrible.

Just goes to show you how much people will defend bullshit if you put a business behind it.

There's also usually a second wall behind the initial "people barrier". Like, the actual enclosure wall.

I think they should all get fines / investigated. The parents for not keeping track of the kid. Zoo for the enclosure. People who shot the guerrilla for alternatives. The inspector for passing the enclosure as safe.

That gorilla kinda had to get shot though.

I would hate to be fined as a parent because of people's feelings. I'm not a robot. Sometimes, shit happens.

The attraction has been there for 38 years without an incident like this, and the regulatory bodies that inspected the zoo never said a second word, presumably because other zoos also have similar open exhibits like this one's that are similarly without incident. On the other hand, there are accounts that say the mother was taking a picture with her phone at the time, and didn't even realize the kid had gone over until after he'd already fallen, which suggests she had her eye off the prize for a pretty decent length of time. Sorry, but if there's one time that you should absolutely have your eye on the kid 100% of the time, it's the open-air gorilla exhibit that your child tells you he wants to go into. This is 90-10 the fault of the parents.

By Snowy Go To PostThe attraction has been there for 38 years without an incident like this, and the regulatory bodies that inspected the zoo never said a second word, presumably because other zoos also have similar open exhibits like this one's that are similarly without incident. On the other hand, there are accounts that say the mother was taking a picture with her phone at the time, and didn't even realize the kid had gone over until after he'd already fallen, which suggests she had her eye off the prize for a pretty decent length of time. Sorry, but if there's one time that you should absolutely have your eye on the kid 100% of the time, it's the open-air gorilla exhibit that your child tells you he wants to go into. This is 90-10 the fault of the parents.

They actually had. The last report was the first in a long time that was "clean" ... all the previous ones had issues.

So yeah, there's stuff to look at there.

By DY_nasty Go To PostThat gorilla kinda had to get shot though.

Let's not pull up a regulatory body as a defense. A 4 year old climbed 3 feet. As i have said, not jack Bauer, not solid snake, a 4 year old.

There are 7 billion people. Most have the sense to not climb into the gorilla pen but i won't cosign a barrier that was defeated by someone in a pull up who can't tie his own shoes.

And they can leave it the way it is. Just know some 'touched' people will climb in, from time to time and force you to kill your prized animals.

OK, this was good

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kid-destroys-15-000-lego-065937181.html

Children might be small in stature, but let's be honest, they can be rather destructive when left to their own devices.

Such is the case with a young Chinese boy, who single-handedly pushed over a giant fox figurine of Nick from Zootopia on Sunday at the LEGO Expo in Ningbo, China.

It so happened that it was the first day of the exhibition and the display had been open to the public for no more than an hour when the incident occurred.

According to Zhao, the artist who spent three days and nights painstakingly piecing together the figurine, the parents were very apologetic over the mishap.

The LEGO figurine is said to cost more than 100,000 yuan ($15,170).

Honestly, people need to get their children under control. First the dead gorilla, now this.

No question that Chinese kids ancestors felt that asswhooping his mom handed out

By DY_nasty Go To PostNo question that Chinese kids ancestors felt that asswhooping his mom handed out

What ancestors? Disowned.

lol at thinking the kid got punished at all

Gorilla had to be shot. Human Lives > Animal Lives.

I hate that White America is making a big deal out of this and harassing this black family. People act like they never had/seen a kid get away from someone.

Man Cism runs deep in America.

You know I'm a huge animal lover but it bothers the shit out of me the sociopathy inherent in some of the discussions like just letting the kid be ripped apart by the gorilla as some kind of abject lesson or "he's an endangered species." Even the ire directed at the parents seems to be a lot of people who haven't dealt with kids much or more than one at a time. That barrier is some shit. Also not a fan of "it's been fine" for however long. Chances are it's been fine when there has been a higher employee to visitor ratio. That barrier was an accident waiting to happen just by the look of it. Kids manage to hurt themselves even while being observed by a parent. That's what they do. If a fucking place is mostly made up of children, which is how Zoos are, there should be more "what if a kid is over here" safeguards. Parents need to be more vigilant stuff to me is eh, could have just as easily happened to a touring group full of kids and docents. Kids love to just fuck off and explore.

By Kuma Go To PostGorilla had to be shot. Human Lives > Animal Lives.

I hate that White America is making a big deal out of this and harassing this black family. People act like they never had/seen a kid get away from someone.

Man Cism runs deep in America.

yeah naw

never seen a kid get away in my family

im jus sayin

By threat of whoopins or what?

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostBy threat of whoopins or what?

by threat of RKO out of nowhere

never even heard whispers of a kid in my family 'wandering away'

That's cool but it happens all of the time even to the best of parents.

/shrug

Man as a new father, I'm not going to say some of the shit that has happened, but shit sometimes happens ok lol. I dont think I've ever spoken to a parent where some shit hasnt happened.

Give these guys a break man, the lil man jetted off.

I wasn't a bad kid but I let's just say I figured out child safety locks and realized I could get up on the kitchen counter by dragging my little chair in there. Also figured out how to climb out of my crib. Probably shorted out my parents lives a couple years just by being a clever little shit.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostI wasn't a bad kid but I let's just say I figured out child safety locks and realized I could get up on the kitchen counter by dragging my little chair in there. Also figured out how to climb out of my crib. Probably shorted out my parents lives a couple years just by being a clever little shit.

Yeah shit like this, you just cant comprehend how clever kids are until they fuck up some shit.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostYou know I'm a huge animal lover but it bothers the shit out of me the sociopathy inherent in some of the discussions like just letting the kid be ripped apart by the gorilla as some kind of abject lesson or "he's an endangered species." Even the ire directed at the parents seems to be a lot of people who haven't dealt with kids much or more than one at a time. That barrier is some shit. Also not a fan of "it's been fine" for however long. Chances are it's been fine when there has been a higher employee to visitor ratio. That barrier was an accident waiting to happen just by the look of it. Kids manage to hurt themselves even while being observed by a parent. That's what they do. If a fucking place is mostly made up of children, which is how Zoos are, there should be more "what if a kid is over here" safeguards. Parents need to be more vigilant stuff to me is eh, could have just as easily happened to a touring group full of kids and docents. Kids love to just fuck off and explore.

There's a race aspect to this as well. Guarantee if the boy was white there wouldn't be outrage towards him/the parents, or at least A LOT less and people wouldn't be digging and bringing up the father's (who wasn't even there) criminal record.

imo we should kill all gorillas to prove evolution to glenn beck,

http://www.theonion.com/article/gorilla-sales-skyrocket-after-latest-gorilla-attac-30860

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-racism-found-cincinnati-zoo-saga-article-1.2655860

Shaun King putting down the info. Lists all the times other kids fall into a animal pen and their parent's escape calls for their arrest

What an odd coincidence.

let trump build a wall and make the gorillas pay for it.

Human life > animal life. It's a shame but whatevs.

You want to talk *isms, let's not avoid the matter of speciesism. The simplistic moral logic of "human life > animal life" is pure prejudice, and, moreover, ignores the quite obvious fact that humans themselves are animals.

Sociopathy, you claim? Something tells me you don't quite understand what the term means. Clearly, it isn't a lack of empathy overall by anyone making such claims (of course, was anyone making such claims, or have you merely strung together an effigy to rhetorically abuse?); it is, rather, a transspecies empathy that opens the possibility of including the gorilla itself in the ethical entanglement, rather than a sort of eusocial shunting to species selection.

They should have politely asked the gorilla to return the child unharmed.

By flabber Go To PostYou want to talk *isms, let's not avoid the matter of speciesism. The simplistic moral logic of "human life > animal life" is pure prejudice, and, moreover, ignores the quite obvious fact that humans themselves are animals.

Sociopathy, you claim? Something tells me you don't quite understand what the term means. Clearly, it isn't a lack of empathy overall by anyone making such claims (of course, was anyone making such claims, or have you merely strung together an effigy to rhetorically abuse?); it is, rather, a transspecies empathy that opens the possibility of including the gorilla itself in the ethical entanglement, rather than a sort of eusocial shunting to species selection.

Oh good, more labels. "Speciesism"? Do gorillas and turtles and flamingos give a shit that humans think they're more important than them?

By flabber Go To PostYou want to talk *isms, let's not avoid the matter of speciesism. The simplistic moral logic of "human life > animal life" is pure prejudice, and, moreover, ignores the quite obvious fact that humans themselves are animals.

Sociopathy, you claim? Something tells me you don't quite understand what the term means. Clearly, it isn't a lack of empathy overall by anyone making such claims (of course, was anyone making such claims, or have you merely strung together an effigy to rhetorically abuse?); it is, rather, a transspecies empathy that opens the possibility of including the gorilla itself in the ethical entanglement, rather than a sort of eusocial shunting to species selection.

Are you a vegan?

Rude.

But if that was my kid in there and no one blasted that gorilla I'd become a super villain

I'm just wondering how far it goes. Plus the kid isn't versed in Gorilla, it could rip his head off just for saying "fuck you" in whatever nonverbal code they go by, because he's no Gorilla behaviorist.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostI'm just wondering how far it goes. Plus the kid isn't versed in Gorilla, it could rip his head off just for saying "fuck you" in whatever nonverbal code they go by, because he's no Gorilla behaviorist.

So the kids parents are so speciest that they didn't even teach him Gorrlia-gul?

why did some take flabbers post seriously?

By Jay Whatever Go To PostThey should have politely asked the gorilla to return the child unharmed.

Moral considerations don't cease at the edge of communicability. If anything, the most interesting and perhaps most important frontiers of morality begin where easier, interpersonal negotiability ends. So many of our ethical responsibilities (conscious or not) require that we make decisions that impact others whom we would deem capable of decision-making but whom are unavailable, for whatever reason, for immediate interaction with our behaviors, as well as for those which we place - at least popularly - beyond the capabilities of decision-making.

The child and gorilla were equally beyond the simpler realms of compromise, and for that reason the entire situation practically demands more scrutiny and consideration. And yet we decide in advance with little if any contemplation that it is the gorilla to die - for its lack of human genetics alone.

By Pizza Go To PostOh good, more labels. "Speciesism"? Do gorillas and turtles and flamingos give a shit that humans think they're more important than them?

Does it matter whether they "give a shit" (whatever you might mean by that) or not? The gorillas and turtles and flamingos live under an ecological regime ruled by humanity. Are we not responsible for our actions? Should we have absolutely no concern for all the multitudinous lifeforms we have massacred and imprisoned, imperiled and exploited?

Speciesism, I'd think, would be more of a concern for anyone with any interest in such other *isms (none of which I'm discounting, mind) as racism and sexism. Look at the history of these latter two, for example, and note how often another race or sex has been dismissed as less than human - as organic matter fit for functioning only according to dictates of the prevailing "human" (however defined) logics and nothing more.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostAre you a vegan?

I'm not sure how that matters exactly. I'm not eating any gorillas, I can assure you.

If you want to have a discussion about my views and actions, I wouldn't be entirely opposed; but too often this line of questioning leads to little more than quibbles about consistency.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostI'm just wondering how far it goes.

Only as far as we're willing to consider the cosmos beyond the ends of our noses.

By giririsss Go To PostSo the kids parents are so speciest that they didn't even teach him Gorrlia-gul?

why did some take flabbers post seriously?

I don't know, I feel kind of stupid for that now.

I don't identify with gorillas. I guess that's why I'd chose the human in this situation.

By Jay Whatever Go To PostI don't identify with gorillas. I guess that's why I'd chose the human in this situation.

The next question, then, is: Is that an acceptable way to root our ethics?

Identity is tricky, and clearly not everyone agrees on what they can or can't identify with. Are you willing to accept the limits of someone else's identifications which do not accord with your own?

I don't know your general views, but Slaent tends to be relatively liberal, so: Would you accept someone who stated, as a basis for some ethical position, I don't identify with black people, or women, or homosexuals, or trans people, or poor people, or foreigners, etc? It could be even more extreme with, say, radical individualists who claim they can't identify with anyone, fuck society, it's all for my taking (e.g., the Randians of the world) - is this acceptable? And when we use "accept" here, would you use that in a descriptive or prescriptive sense - will you accept something as an explanation but not a justification, or will you go all the way and say: 'Yep, I'm OK with members of society who believe that way and act accordingly'?



Let me be clear, I haven't stated here what I would've done, and that's for a precise meta-ethical reason: people don't ever fully know what they'll do in any given situation.

I specifically called it an entanglement - an entanglement that ropes in so many different and sometimes competing interests. And while our active moral behaviors in life may require us, at many times, to cut the Gordian knot, our philosophical reflections and speculations need not.

None of these questions matter to me in this particular situation. The child made a childlike mistake that it could not undo and a gorilla can't be talked down from ripping someone's head off. The gorilla dies.

I'm anxiously awaiting the day someone wants to make a case for a gorilla being allowed to vote or get married or use a bathroom at Target.

By Jay Whatever Go To PostNone of these questions matter to me in this particular situation.

The point is to examine why they don't matter to you, and why that non-mattering itself matters.

Refusing to do so is itself an ethical gesture of ignorance and carelessness. Your choice, m8.

By Jay Whatever Go To PostI'm anxiously awaiting the day someone wants to make a case for a gorilla being allowed to vote or get married or use a bathroom at Target.

You're being obstinately obtuse and mistaking it for pithy incision.

I had these endless discussions and played these word games in my early twenties. I'm over it.

By Jay Whatever Go To PostI had these endless discussions and played these word games in my early twenties. I'm over it.

Then why bother responding thrice? It's not as if you had splendid, clever jokes that needed to be shared with the world. Your replies were as unamusing as they were stupid.

Maybe your particular brand of conversational energy might be better spent confronting the guy in the Yahoo comments section who suggested that they let the gorilla keep the nigger baby. That's the world I live in - the one where people seem to think more about the rights of relatively mindless animals over human black lives wholesale. This is not a mental luxury I can afford most of the time. Kudos to you if you can keep it in the abstract. I can't.

I said at the top of the thread that it's unfortunate that the gorilla died. I'm not gonna give the animal any more consideration.

I mean when it comes down to it most animals protect their young when in danger and man has always been a communal animal.

It's sad that the gorilla died but to be honest it's sadder that the gorilla has gotten more love and support than Martin when he got murdered or any other such case.