By HasphatsAntsMy MVP ballot would be this right now:
Harden
Steph
Davis
Gasol
CP3
Is that in order? Harden above Curry?
By Jeff-DSAIf the Knicks want to attract free agents, then they need to show that they can win now, not 3-4 years from now. It has look like it's a place worth going to.
It doesn't matter. No team anchored by Carmelo Anthony is going to win anything. He's a bum.
You just said they need more than 1 piece but instead of drafting it they should use their cap room on a Max FA under the same logic?
Also its not like the knicks are running ssol or even just a PnR system. They are running the triangle. The only FA worth a Max in that system would of been Marc Gasol and its very likely he isn't coming. Instead if they spend that money on 2 -3 roleplayers who can actually play in that system and the knicks will be a much better team next year.
Actually, I said it doesn't matter what they do. Unless they get Carmelo to waive that no trade clause and dump him, they're going to stay a mess. Yeah, problems remain deeper than Carmelo, but he's never going to be a triangle guy and he's never going to be the leader on a contending franchise.
I honestly don't see how the Knicks have any options. It's just a shame that they're going to ruin some promising rookie next year.
I honestly don't see how the Knicks have any options. It's just a shame that they're going to ruin some promising rookie next year.
Who are these centers who became really good right out of college? Boogie is MVP caliber now, but he was a chucker who played no defense and hurt his team his first three years. Drummond still has no idea how to help the Pistons win basketball games because he's so bad defensively. There's not many 19 year olds in general that help NBA teams win basketball games because few 19 year olds know how to defend and play within an offense.
By AdamWhat does IWMTB think of Dumbandre?
Your avatar is a mix of anime and the Clippers. It's like you're trying press all of my buttons at once.
Man, I'd love to see some crazy trades happen come the 15th with the Knicks. I can already see JR and Timmy being shopped. Jason Smith too. Shit, I just want some kind of drama. Losing isn't enough drama anymore.
By Jeff-DSAIs that in order? Harden above Curry?
Yeah. But I don't see Harden keeping this up for the entire season while Curry's team could legitimately challenge for 65+ wins in a stacked Western conference.
If GSW goes something like 67-15 it's gonna be impossible to keep Curry off the top spot for MVP.
By dy_nastyWe have very little else. The only other option that makes sense is giving them Perk, but he's actually been good for us this season.By KingGondoApparently we asked the Nuggets about Wilson Chandler.when i put together a trade package, i make sure its centered around the broken second coming of julian wright
Not sure what we'd give up for him, but there are rumors at least. I assume it would involve Perry Jones and some other pieces.
By KingGondoBy dy_nastyWe have very little else. The only other option that makes sense is giving them Perk, but he's actually been good for us this season.By KingGondoApparently we asked the Nuggets about Wilson Chandler.when i put together a trade package, i make sure its centered around the broken second coming of julian wright
Not sure what we'd give up for him, but there are rumors at least. I assume it would involve Perry Jones and some other pieces.
Why are you guys asking for wilson chandler again?
By DarkPerk has been dick cheese brehHe has been not terrible, which is an improvement.
I want to keep him as a backup assuming he'll take a reasonable deal. He still has a lot of value as a locker room presence and teacher on defense.
By ZeusIt hasn't even been confirmed that we are.By KingGondoBy dy_nastyWe have very little else. The only other option that makes sense is giving them Perk, but he's actually been good for us this season.By KingGondoApparently we asked the Nuggets about Wilson Chandler.when i put together a trade package, i make sure its centered around the broken second coming of julian wright
Not sure what we'd give up for him, but there are rumors at least. I assume it would involve Perry Jones and some other pieces.
Why are you guys asking for wilson chandler again?
By Jeff-DSAActually, I said it doesn't matter what they do. Unless they get Carmelo to waive that no trade clause and dump him, they're going to stay a mess. Yeah, problems remain deeper than Carmelo, but he's never going to be a triangle guy and he's never going to be the leader on a contending franchise.
I honestly don't see how the Knicks have any options. It's just a shame that they're going to ruin some promising rookie next year.
Why though? He's got a similar offensive skill-set to Kobe/Jordan. He's one of the only guys who's got an unstoppable post game, mid range game, 3 point game, and athletic enough to get to the rim.
In fact, outside of Lebron, there's NO perimeter player who's more of a "triangle" guy in today's NBA because Harden/Klay/Durant have no midpost or low post game. And it is the "triple post" offense.
You can get 20 shots a game and still get 5-6 apg in the triangle as Jordan/Kobe have proven. He's the perfect fit. He just needs to play better defense, learn the system better so he can make the right decision on every sequence, and then get some help.
Unless your complaints are all IQ. Because skill wise, he's the perfect fit.
By Jeff-DSAPlease don't compare Carmelo to Jordan ever again.
Melo has that skill set. He's not Jordan, or even Kobe. But he's the best wing in the league outside of Lebron to play in the triangle. Skill set wise. I'm not sure about IQ wise.
By Jeff-DSABy AdamWhat does IWMTB think of Dumbandre?
Your avatar is a mix of anime and the Clippers. It's like you're trying press all of my buttons at once.
<3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqidQZqflmo
Offense is a work of genius. No dribbling needed. No drives needed. Just cuts and passes. Layup after layup after layup after layup.
The first 3 plays are the same play. 3 different people scored. 3 different people got the assist.
Offense is a work of genius. No dribbling needed. No drives needed. Just cuts and passes. Layup after layup after layup after layup.
The first 3 plays are the same play. 3 different people scored. 3 different people got the assist.
Maybe the Lakers were successful because they had Kobe and Gasol and they could've won running anything.
Because in two years in Minnesota, Kurt Rambis went 32-132 running the triangle. In a season and a half in Dallas, Jim Cleamons was 28-70. Derrick Fisher is currently 4-20.
Because in two years in Minnesota, Kurt Rambis went 32-132 running the triangle. In a season and a half in Dallas, Jim Cleamons was 28-70. Derrick Fisher is currently 4-20.
By rodeoclownMaybe the Lakers were successful because they had Kobe and Gasol and they could've won running anything.
Because in two years in Minnesota, Kurt Rambis went 32-132 running the triangle. In a season and a half in Dallas, Jim Cleamons was 28-70. Derrick Fisher is currently 4-20.
And don't forget that before Pau Gasol, the Lakers were surviving on a prime Kobe Bryant doing superhuman things under a Phil Jackson-run triangle offense, but overall they were an average team at best. Those teams also had a perfect compliment for the triangle in Lamar Odom.
i still cant believe that OKC was too cheap keep a Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka core together.
Like
huh
Like
huh
By rodeoclownMaybe the Lakers were successful because they had Kobe and Gasol and they could've won running anything.
Because in two years in Minnesota, Kurt Rambis went 32-132 running the triangle. In a season and a half in Dallas, Jim Cleamons was 28-70. Derrick Fisher is currently 4-20.
The point is a bigger point. When it's run to it's potential. It's absolute genius. Take SA's Offense and have Philly run it or Orlando run it. It will look like a clusterfuck.
Beyond that though, the argument goes both ways. Lots of teams without Phil's Triangle don't "win running anything". The Mike Brown Lakers and the Mike D'Antoni Lakers didn't win. The Doug Collins Bulls didn't win.
Also, Phil didn't just win. He made dyansties. And unlike most Dynasties before him - they only needed 2-3 all time greats. Not 4 or 5
By reiloBy rodeoclownMaybe the Lakers were successful because they had Kobe and Gasol and they could've won running anything.
Because in two years in Minnesota, Kurt Rambis went 32-132 running the triangle. In a season and a half in Dallas, Jim Cleamons was 28-70. Derrick Fisher is currently 4-20.
And don't forget that before Pau Gasol, the Lakers were surviving on a prime Kobe Bryant doing superhuman things under a Phil Jackson-run triangle offense, but overall they were an average team at best. Those teams also had a perfect compliment for the triangle in Lamar Odom.
I've never debated this. I just think you guys are missing the point. It's a complex offense that's hard to master. Once it's mastered, it's pure genius. That's the point. Giving the ball to your best guy and letting him make every decision every time down the court is easy. It gets much better results in the short term. Mastering the Triangle in the long term, is better.
By VahagnThe point is a bigger point. When it's run to it's potential. It's absolute genius. Take SA's Offense and have Philly run it or Orlando run it. It will look like a clusterfuck.
Beyond that though, the argument goes both ways. Lots of teams without Phil's Triangle don't "win running anything". The Mike Brown Lakers and the Mike D'Antoni Lakers didn't win. The Doug Collins Bulls didn't win.
Also, Phil didn't just win. He made dyansties. And unlike most Dynasties before him - they only needed 2-3 all time greats. Not 4 or 5
Only if you narrowly define "winning" as "winning a championship", which is dumb.
By reiloBy VahagnThe point is a bigger point. When it's run to it's potential. It's absolute genius. Take SA's Offense and have Philly run it or Orlando run it. It will look like a clusterfuck.
Beyond that though, the argument goes both ways. Lots of teams without Phil's Triangle don't "win running anything". The Mike Brown Lakers and the Mike D'Antoni Lakers didn't win. The Doug Collins Bulls didn't win.
Also, Phil didn't just win. He made dyansties. And unlike most Dynasties before him - they only needed 2-3 all time greats. Not 4 or 5
Only if you narrowly define "winning" as "winning a championship", which is dumb.
Uh. The SA Spurs would "win" using Mike Brown's offense - if we define winning as having a winning record. So Pop's offense is bullshit confirmed?
C'mon man, you're better than that.
By reiloWhat? That's not even close to what I said, but keep the mouth-diarrhea going.
That's EXACTLY what you said. It was just a dumb point easily counteracted. What's hilarious is all I have to do is take your arguments and apply them to Pop's offense and immediately you backtrack - well, you pretend you don't.
The Triangle is like a tough Rachmaninoff piece. It's a masterpiece. It's hard to execute and takes time to learn. Doesn't change the fact that the offense itself is a work of genius.
We have some 30 years of history showing what Jordan/Kobe/Shaq do when they have Phil and the Triangle and what they don't. They form dynasties with. Have one total chip without. But that's ignored in favor or what Rambis or Cleamons did.
The Hawks are 7th in offense running a standard spread, PnR offense. They would be top 5 if they tried to offensive rebound instead of trying to stop fast-break points. The Jazz are far ahead of the Knicks on offense this year while running basic spread, PnR stuff.
I mean... SVG, Mike Brown, and Scott Brooks have had elite offenses for NBA Finals teams when they've had top 3 players in the league too.
I mean... SVG, Mike Brown, and Scott Brooks have had elite offenses for NBA Finals teams when they've had top 3 players in the league too.
Mike D'Antoni won a ton using his basic pick and roll based offense in Phoenix. When he didn't have a Hall of Fame point guard running it with a extra pair of all stars in Amare and Marion, things didn't work nearly as well. If you don't think he wins running this offense with prime Kobe, Gasol, Odom, et al, well, I don't know.
I just think you keep misattributing success to scheme rather than talent. Other coaches have tried to run the triangle with lesser talent and it hasn't worked.
I just think you keep misattributing success to scheme rather than talent. Other coaches have tried to run the triangle with lesser talent and it hasn't worked.
By rodeoclownMike D'Antoni won a ton using his basic pick and roll based offense in Phoenix. When he didn't have a Hall of Fame point guard running it with a extra pair of all stars in Amare and Marion, things didn't work nearly as well. If you don't think he wins running this offense with prime Kobe, Gasol, Odom, et al, well, I don't know.
I just think you keep misattributing success to scheme rather than talent. Other coaches have tried to run the triangle with lesser talent and it hasn't worked.
And that same talent has used other schemes and hasn't worked. Why are you leaving out one piece of the puzzle.
You need talent to win chips. Phil made dynasties. If D'Antoni had HOFers and All Time greats and truly ran the best offense by miles - why was he unable to even make one finals, Let alone form a dynasty?
I'm telling you the offense is a work of genius because it is. It's complex and hard to master - but it's a work of genius.
By IWMTB19The Hawks are 7th in offense running a standard spread, PnR offense. They would be top 5 if they tried to offensive rebound instead of trying to stop fast-break points. The Jazz are far ahead of the Knicks on offense this year while running basic spread, PnR stuff.
I mean… SVG, Mike Brown, and Scott Brooks have had elite offenses for NBA Finals teams when they've had top 3 players in the league too.
A) The Triangle isn't the only successful offense. It's not the only way to skin a cat. But why does their success invalidate it's success? We're not arguing religions, we're arguing engineering methods.
B) They haven't won
C) They haven't formed dynasties.
No one's suggesting you can form a dynasty with scrubs. I'm suggesting that with talent, the Triangle can form you a dynasty. Over and over and over again. And that when executed and mastered - it's a goddamn work of art.
we're probably a year or two away from every living soul who's ever come from Phils coaching tree being black-listed from future head coaching jobs in the future, so its kind of moot
I mean, if we want to talk about why the Suns never won a title under D'Antoni or Gentry, it's probably because they never had much depth, circumstance (Joe Johnson's injury, the suspensions against the Spurs) and they simply ran into better teams.
Basketball is an insanely difficult sport to win a title in. Two all timers and you're in the ballpark. Phoenix didn't have the running mate for Nash that the Lakers and Bulls always had, but that's okay, they still had a highly successful run for six seasons, including three WCF trips. It didn't all mean nothing, it doesn't mean D'Antoni/Gentry can't coach and their schemes were lesser because they couldn't get over the hump.
Basketball is an insanely difficult sport to win a title in. Two all timers and you're in the ballpark. Phoenix didn't have the running mate for Nash that the Lakers and Bulls always had, but that's okay, they still had a highly successful run for six seasons, including three WCF trips. It didn't all mean nothing, it doesn't mean D'Antoni/Gentry can't coach and their schemes were lesser because they couldn't get over the hump.
By VahagnBy reiloWhat? That's not even close to what I said, but keep the mouth-diarrhea going.
That's EXACTLY what you said. It was just a dumb point easily counteracted. What's hilarious is all I have to do is take your arguments and apply them to Pop's offense and immediately you backtrack - well, you pretend you don't.
The Triangle is like a tough Rachmaninoff piece. It's a masterpiece. It's hard to execute and takes time to learn. Doesn't change the fact that the offense itself is a work of genius.
We have some 30 years of history showing what Jordan/Kobe/Shaq do when they have Phil and the Triangle and what they don't. They form dynasties with. Have one total chip without. But that's ignored in favor or what Rambis or Cleamons did.
Show me where I said that, otherwise stop putting words into my mouth.
By rodeoclownI mean, if we want to talk about why the Suns never won a title under D'Antoni or Gentry, it's probably because they never had much depth, circumstance (Joe Johnson's injury, the suspensions against the Spurs) and they simply ran into better teams.
Basketball is an insanely difficult sport to win a title in. Two all timers and you're in the ballpark. Phoenix didn't have the running mate for Nash that the Lakers and Bulls always had, but that's okay, they still had a highly successful run for six seasons, including three WCF trips. It didn't all mean nothing, it doesn't mean D'Antoni/Gentry can't coach and their schemes were lesser because they couldn't get over the hump.
Amare was awesome so was Matrix.
No they can coach. They can coach just fine. But I would disagree with you that their schemes weren't lesser. They absolutely were. They sacrificed defense and offensive rebounding for offensive execution. Phil never had to. This wasn't on accident, it was intrinsically a feature of both offenses.
This is an x's and o's argument that will take forever to explain. But I'll go to my grave arguing that D'Antoni basketball is absolutely lesser to the Triangle or Pops system any day of the week.
Again, Phil and Pop are 2 of the top 4 coaches of all time, and probably the top 2. So saying D'Antoni and Gentry were worse coaches than Phil or Pop isn't knocking them. It just is what it is.
By VahagnBut I'll go to my grave arguing that D'Antoni basketball is absolutely lesser to the Triangle or Pops system any day of the week.We shall go on to the end. We shall fight on SLAENT, we shall fight on RealGM and Reddit, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength on behalf of da Knicks, we shall defend the Triangle, whatever the cost may be.
We shall fight the D'Antoni ball, we shall fight Gentry, we shall fight Rambis and Cleamons, we shall fight alongside Fisher; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, the Triangle or He who invented it were discredited and exposed, then our Mamba in LA, extended and overpaid by the Buss family, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, Knicks West, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the East.
By IWMTB19It's reasonably possible that the 76ers are 13th in the East after tonight.Hinkle must be pissed that his clearly laid out master tank plan can't even match up to the incompetence of the Knicks and Pistons.
Contract the East.
By reiloBy IWMTB19It's reasonably possible that the 76ers are 13th in the East after tonight.Hinkle must be pissed that his clearly laid out master tank plan can't even match up to the incompetence of the Knicks and Pistons.
Contract the East.
The Knicks and Pistons were trying to make the playoffs this year, lol lol lol.
I thought the Pistons might make the playoffs D:. D12 carried SVG's perception so far for everyone.
By ForeverSVG turned down the Warriors job for this.The Pistons will have pretty clean books this summer except for Josh Smith and one more year of Brandon Jennings, though. He'll get to turn the team into whatever he wants, which was probably the real appeal of Detroit.
By ForeverBy VahagnBut I'll go to my grave arguing that D'Antoni basketball is absolutely lesser to the Triangle or Pops system any day of the week.We shall go on to the end. We shall fight on SLAENT, we shall fight on RealGM and Reddit, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength on behalf of da Knicks, we shall defend the Triangle, whatever the cost may be.
We shall fight the D'Antoni ball, we shall fight Gentry, we shall fight Rambis and Cleamons, we shall fight alongside Fisher; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, the Triangle or He who invented it were discredited and exposed, then our Mamba in LA, extended and overpaid by the Buss family, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, Knicks West, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the East.
By Zeushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_shall_fight_on_the_beaches
By rodeoclownThe Pistons will have pretty clean books this summer except for Josh Smith and one more year of Brandon Jennings, though. He'll get to turn the team into whatever he wants, which was probably the real appeal of Detroit.His first big move as GM was to get cute with Monroe and lose him for nothing, I don't know if that appeal is going to work out for him.
Lol, Vahg is the guy who also thinks that;
When pop, unprompted, states he took a lot of things from D'Antonis playbook, thinks he knows better than pop. The coach who made the statement. Unprompted. And clearly has.
When a player, prompted, gives one of the most wrote and cliche responses about how good a team mate kobe is, it's an infaillible statement of how amazingly great kobe is as a human being and why you should let him rape your daughter, why fisher is going to be a great coach, and why the triangle will solve every problem in all of basketball.
When pop, unprompted, states he took a lot of things from D'Antonis playbook, thinks he knows better than pop. The coach who made the statement. Unprompted. And clearly has.
When a player, prompted, gives one of the most wrote and cliche responses about how good a team mate kobe is, it's an infaillible statement of how amazingly great kobe is as a human being and why you should let him rape your daughter, why fisher is going to be a great coach, and why the triangle will solve every problem in all of basketball.
By giririsssLol, Vahg is the guy who also thinks that;
When pop, unprompted, states he took a lot of things from D'Antonis playbook, thinks he knows better than pop. The coach who made the statement. Unprompted. And clearly has.
When a player, prompted, gives one of the most wrote and cliche responses about how good a team mate kobe is, it's an infaillible statement of how amazingly great kobe is as a human being and why you should let him rape your daughter, why fisher is going to be a great coach, and why the triangle will solve every problem in all of basketball.
Flat out. Fuck you.
Nothing else warrants a response.
By DarkI'm excited to see if Flip can redeem himself.As a coach or GM? He's a serviceable coach (seriously, shoot more 3s), but a good GM, I think.
So far, he isn't doing half bad.
For a lot of reasons, last year went to hell, but that team had more talent than 40 wins. He smartly identified the team's wing problems and brought in Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer, both are pretty good NBA players and started all last year. His draft last summer was good, too. Trey Burke for Shabazz and Dieng is a big win.
As far as this summer goes, considering Kevin Love demanded a trade, he got a good haul for him. I'm not as sold as LaVine as he is, though.
There's also something to be said for being able to identify your own guys and lock them up accordingly like with Pekovic and Rubio. I don't know if a lot of GMs are giving Rubio a near max deal, but really, he's pretty worth it.
By ForeverI think a lot of people are still waiting to draw a conclusion on Monroe.By Zeushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_shall_fight_on_the_beachesBy rodeoclownThe Pistons will have pretty clean books this summer except for Josh Smith and one more year of Brandon Jennings, though. He'll get to turn the team into whatever he wants, which was probably the real appeal of Detroit.His first big move as GM was to get cute with Monroe and lose him for nothing, I don't know if that appeal is going to work out for him.
He's never exactly lead that team to a great record. His defense is still iffy. And whilst he's put up good numbers, is it a "good numbers on bad team" thing.
He's skilled. Has good touch. Doesn't appear to be in bad shape, but not amazing shape either. I haven't paid CLOSE attention, but his game hasn't seemed to massively expand either.
His FG% has been going down every season, not up.
His PPG has hovered around that 16 mark.
His RPG, to his credit, has hovered around 9.5.
His FG% on shots outside of 5ft varies wildly season to season, from 30 - 40%.
I like Monroe, and conventional wisdom stands that skilled bigs are hard to find, and take 4 - 5 seasons at least to really become efficient. He's also had mediocre_at_best team mates around him. Some very bizzare offensive "systems" in place too.
I just wonder how much value you can REALLY associate with someone who has so many caveats. In a season when he's going to be an URFA, and should be trying to post his best season ever, the Pistons aren't exactly over-achieving, nor is he.
With the situation Detroit are in, it's hard to go all out on SVG and the Monroe deal. That roster is far from finished. Drummond seems to be their preferred C of the future, which means Monroe would have to be PF. Which can be tough when neither can space the floor at all outside of 5ft. Detroit have been historically bad with their contracts over the last 5 years or so locking up long term money in some really bad deals. SVG had just walked into the job, and only had word of mouth on all of the other things to go on (character, personality, fit, effort, intelligence) to weigh up whether Monroe was worth throwing a max at.