NBA 2016 | Playoffs | The Best Team Since 1947 Warriors

By Mamba Go To PostSome times it's easier to defend in a series when the matchup works versus the entire season. OKC is too athletic for SAS. That's always been the case. They'd have beaten them last time too had Ibaka not gotten hurt, IMO.

I don't think OKC has turned the corner on defense that much (though they have been better in the past) but the Spurs just don't match up well with them.

the Thunder are the anti-Spurs in just about every facet of the gane

By Kabro Go To Postdumb argument.
pippen had MJ,
Magic had Kareem
Timmy had TP

And Shaq in his bag, playoff Shaq, was better than every one of those players except Jordan and Kareem. Playoff Shaq was just too overwhelming till around the mid 2000s.

By vic Go To PostOKC in 6.

You picked rockets over gs so no one should ever take you seriously

Vic tryin' to steal my style. Errbody trying to steal my style.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostI don't see their defense being able to do as much against a much younger and agile backcourt as well as the three game. What's the Adams/Kanter duo really going to do then.

Kanter should be a dumpster fire against GSW.

By theignoramus Go To PostAnd Shaq in his bag, playoff Shaq, was better than every one of those players except Jordan. Playoff Shaq was just too overwhelming till around the mid 2000s.

Russ isn't as good as Kobe at taking over a game tho no how it's spun

By blackace Go To Postyeah it's not like Russ has KD on his team or anything

You saying lockout season KD was on the level of playoff Shaq who would draw triple teams?

One of Pop's flaws is that he's too attached to his system. I Love his system, just like I love the triangle. But Phil and Riley always let their stars dominate when the complexion of the game was going that way.

Pop is too insistent on Hoosiers type "pass at least 4 times" offense and should allow Kawhi and LMA to get 40 and dominate.

And that works fine when Danny Green and Patty Mills turn into Ray Allen, but sometimes, especially in the playoffs, you just need your best guys to put the team on their back.

God another team gone means less basketball to watch though, ugh.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostOne of Pop's flaws is that he's too attached to his system. I Love his system, just like I love the triangle. But Phil and Riley always let their stars dominate when the complexion of the game was going that way.

Pop is too insistent on Hoosiers type "pass at least 4 times" offense and should allow Kawhi and LMA to get 40 and dominate.

He told LMA through the season to "shoot until I tell you you're shooting too much"
If that TNT report is accurate, thats an LMA issue, not a Popovich issue.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostOne of Pop's flaws is that he's too attached to his system. I Love his system, just like I love the triangle. But Phil and Riley always let their stars dominate when the complexion of the game was going that way.

Pop is too insistent on Hoosiers type "pass at least 4 times" offense and should allow Kawhi and LMA to get 40 and dominate.

And that works fine when Danny Green and Patty Mills turn into Ray Allen, but sometimes, especially in the playoffs, you just need your best guys to put the team on their back.

he told Kawhi to take over the year they won and told LMA to shoot...
Pop's main problem is he seems locked on a rotation no matter how bad a player is playing

Like when he kept Manu on the floor before

I mean sometimes the spurs win it all sometimes they don't even go deep. I'm not a spurs fan but I've seen this before. The only difference is I don't think Timmy is going to be there during the next rebuild.

By theignoramus Go To PostAnd Shaq in his bag, playoff Shaq, was better than every one of those players except Jordan and Kareem. Playoff Shaq was just too overwhelming till around the mid 2000s.

Except when he won jack until Phil came along.

One of the biggest battles will be Waiters vs Livingston off the bench

By blackace Go To Posthe told Kawhi to take over the year they won and told LMA to shoot…
Pop's main problem is he seems locked on a rotation no matter how bad a player is playing

Like when he kept Manu on the floor before

Telling guys to shoot or have confidence isn't what I'm talking about. He told LMA to shoot because LMA was passing up shots and being tentative. Pop, at least for the last 7 or 8 years, either beats you with beautiful basketball or he doesn't beat you. What's not going to happen is some guy take over a series like Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Wade, Curry, Kobe, Jordan, etc etc etc.

In close games you know that the Thunder are going to Durant and YNB, the Spurs though? They're just gonna run their stuff. No one feels comfortable dominating the ball.


Kawhi "took over" by averaging like 18 points a game. He's always had guys that can get you 30 a night for stretches but they never do consistently. and that's a product of the philosophy they have. Phil and Kerr run system basketball but they let their guys get hot and destroy opponents single handily any time they want.

Pop's always playing chess when sometimes you just need to play whack a mole.

By Omzz Go To PostYou picked rockets over gs so no one should ever take you seriously

I'm simply betting against GS, even when I believe they'll probably win it all. It's cool to hate :)

I did predicted, on the record, that the Spurs would win in 4 against MEM, so I'm not THAT biased. I'll always give a team who can gun a chance against GS. Never believed the Spurs would do well if they've moved on to the next round. OKC on the other hand, if they can manage to crack through GS's elite defense...

You know who the real loser is tonight David West and those millions he left on the table for this opportunity to lose one round later than the pacers did

Congrat dongo reirom won baby we stop The moviment reirom The only man in world to predicted this this am like Leicester winning nba reirom silenced all The doubters The only winners here am reirom dongo bring The warriors we Will win nba dongo agaunts The cavs lebron Will cry permban me if thunder dont win nba

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostTelling guys to shoot or have confidence isn't what I'm talking about. He told LMA to shoot because LMA was passing up shots and being tentative. Pop, at least for the last 4 years, either beats you with beautiful basketball or he doesn't beat you. What's not going to happen is some guy take over a series like Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Wade, Curry, Kobe, Jordan, etc etc etc.

In close games you know that the Thunder are going to Durant and YNB, the Spurs though? They're just gonna run their stuff. No one feels comfortable dominating the ball.


Kawhi "took over" by averaging like 18 points a game. He's always had guys that can get you 30 a night for stretches but they never do consistently. and that's a product of the philosophy they have. Phil and Kerr run system basketball but they let their guys get hot and destroy opponents single handily any time they want.

Pop's always playing chess when sometimes you just need to play whack a mole.

I'll take the various forms of Pop ball(which I think you are overstating his rigidity quite a bit) over pretty much every other teams philosophy except GS and that is because of better players and a similarly great system that fits the team perfectly.

I'd also argue that a team that utilizes all 5 players is much harder to defend down the stretch of games then knowing you are gonna iso the shit out of 1 or 2 players. Thats why Thunder ball has never won them a championship. When an equally talented team comes along that plays more team orientated ball, they get exposed in a 7 game series.

By Jonm Go To PostI'll take the various forms of Pop ball(which I think you are overstating his rigidity quite a bit) over pretty much every other teams philosophy except GS and that is because of better players and a similarly great system that fits the team perfectly.

As would I, other than the triangle coached by Phil of course. But that doesn't change the fact that sometimes you just need to play whack a mole and let one of your perennial all stars dominate a team or a series when he has a matchup advantage.

There's no reason why Wade in year 3 could do what he did in the Finals and Kawhi in 2016 can't. Wade wasn't that polished. Riley just put his own ego in check and cleared out for Wade play after play after play. Kerr does that for Steph and Thompson too and we all know Phil did that a million times.

All those guys ran beautiful systems. I love me some beautiful systems. As Phil said after Kobe scored 81 "It's not how you ideally want to win games, but it's great to have that weapon".

There is no one on the Spurs who will even try to go for 50 let alone 80 even though multiple guys can do it.

By Jonm Go To PostI'd also argue that a team that utilizes all 5 players is much harder to defend down the stretch of games then knowing you are gonna iso the shit out of 1 or 2 players. Thats why Thunder ball has never won them a championship. When an equally talented team comes along that plays more team orientated ball, they get exposed in a 7 game series.

I agree with you. And obviously the Thunder's problem has always been a lack of a system and an over-reliance on the two superstars. But I'm talking about an effective blending of the two.

Saying that you prefer hyper system to hyper isolation isn't really addressing my argument. I agree with you there. I'm simply saying that Pop needs to be able to balance both better than he has done and there are clear as fuck blueprints for successful coaches that have balanced both.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostYou know who the real loser is tonight David West and those millions he left on the table for this opportunity to lose one round later than the pacers did

he paid for a better chance with a better team. that's it.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostYou know who the real loser is tonight David West and those millions he left on the table for this opportunity to lose one round later than the pacers did

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostAs would I, other than the triangle coached by Phil of course. But that doesn't change the fact that sometimes you just need to play whack a mole and let one of your perennial all stars dominate a team or a series when he has a matchup advantage.

There's no reason why Wade in year 3 could do what he did in the Finals and Kawhi in 2016 can't. Wade wasn't that polished. Riley just put his own ego in check and cleared out for Wade play after play after play. Kerr does that for Steph and Thompson too and we all know Phil did that a million times.

All those guys ran beautiful systems. I love me some beautiful systems. As Phil said after Kobe scored 81 "It's not how you ideally want to win games, but it's great to have that weapon".

There is no one on the Spurs who will even try to go for 50 let alone 80 even though multiple guys can do it.

Did unknown hack this account?

1. Kawhi doesn't get calls, let alone the phantom fouls that Wade was getting when Stern put the call in.
2. No one on this team can go for 80. That's an incredibly tough thing to do thats only been done twice, once by Kobe and then Wilt's 100.

LMA was shooting like 80% and still couldn't hit 50.

They didn't regret their choices when they won 67 games, why would they regret it now? They regret not playing better probably.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostI agree with you. And obviously the Thunder's problem has always been a lack of a system and an over-reliance on the two superstars. But I'm talking about an effective blending of the two.

Saying that you prefer hyper system to hyper isolation isn't really addressing my argument. I agree with you there. I'm simply saying that Pop needs to be able to balance both better than he has done and there are clear as fuck blueprints for successful coaches that have balanced both.

I guess for one, Im not sure Kawhi is the type of player you can just "let loose" in the way you could Curry or Wade consistently.

Also lets not forget LMA went 41 and 38 the first two games. So its not like Pop doesnt look for the hot hand and feed it. He wants the optimal shots every possession and I can't blame that.

I guess my argument is I think his philosophy is just fine as is. He has adjusted his system and philosophy numerous times over his career and each time it has led to a championship. They lost because their old guard couldn't hang anymore and age finally caught up to them in a big way. I don't think the problem was not asking Kawhi to shoot more shots.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostAs would I, other than the triangle coached by Phil of course. But that doesn't change the fact that sometimes you just need to play whack a mole and let one of your perennial all stars dominate a team or a series when he has a matchup advantage.

There's no reason why Wade in year 3 could do what he did in the Finals and Kawhi in 2016 can't. Wade wasn't that polished. Riley just put his own ego in check and cleared out for Wade play after play after play. Kerr does that for Steph and Thompson too and we all know Phil did that a million times.
.

Kawhi ain't half the shot creator '06 Wade was. Doesn't have the handle, touch, post game etc. Wade came into the league with a polished skill set on offense, had everything minus the three ball.

maaaaaaaan, young wade was a monster man.

By Rob Go To PostDid unknown hack this account?

1. Kawhi doesn't get calls, let alone the phantom fouls that Wade was getting when Stern put the call in.
2. No one on this team can go for 80. That's an incredibly tough thing to do thats only been done twice, once by Kobe and then Wilt's 100.

LMA was shooting like 80% and still couldn't hit 50.

Not 80, 50. And yea, LMA and Kawhi can both get you 50. Not on command, obviously, but they are good enough offensively where if they have the consistent green light that other teams give their superstars, they could get you 50. But it's more about the fact that they would never TRY because of the system and culture they're in.


I mean, they just finished an elimination game on the road when it got to like 12 points and 5 minutes left with Andre Miller, Manu, and TD on the floor when they had Kawhi and LMA available. That shit is the most Pop thing ever.

By Jonm Go To PostI guess for one, Im not sure Kawhi is the type of player you can just "let loose" in the way you could Curry or Wade consistently.

Also lets not forget LMA went 41 and 38 the first two games. So its not like Pop doesnt look for the hot hand and feed it. He wants the optimal shots every possession and I can't blame that.

I guess my argument is I think his philosophy is just fine as is. He has adjusted his system and philosophy numerous times over his career and each time it has led to a championship. They lost because their old guard couldn't hang anymore and age finally caught up to them in a big way. I don't think the problem was not asking Kawhi to shoot more shots.

I think you underestimate how many games Jordan/Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Curry/Dirk etc. won by taking over that their teams would have lost had they just ran the offense. Obviously it goes both ways, and that's why great coaches blend both effectively. But to have all star weapons and not use them to their full potential offensively is a problem.

🤔

I have a hard time believing Pop hasn't maximized Kawhi's talent.

And LMA is who he is.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostNot 80, 50. And yea, LMA and Kawhi can both get you 50. Not on command, obviously, but they are good enough offensively where if they have the consistent green light that other teams give their superstars, they could get you 50. But it's more about the fact that they would never TRY because of the system and culture they're in.


I mean, they just finished an elimination game on the road when it got to like 12 points and 5 minutes left with Andre Miller, Manu, and TD on the floor when they had Kawhi and LMA available. That shit is the most Pop thing ever.

tbf LMA has a career high of 44... he went for 38 and 41 in this series

Regardless of how everything plays out the rest of the playoffs, I am supremely happy with how this season turned out.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostI think you underestimate how many games Jordan/Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Curry/Dirk etc. won by taking over that their teams would have lost had they just ran the offense. Obviously it goes both ways, and that's why great coaches blend both effectively. But to have all star weapons and not use them to their full potential offensively is a problem.

I don't think LMA or Kawhi are those type of players consistently enough. So in my mind to knock Pop for not treating them that way is a bit silly. And lets not dismiss that if you are going to build your team on ball movement and optimal shots to best utilize the totality of your current roster, you can't just turn that shit off randomly and not expect things to get a bit messy.

Congratulations on the repeat Warriors.

By Forever Go To PostCongratulations on the repeat Warriors.

If JR can keep making those asshole 3s anything is possible

By blackace Go To Posttbf LMA has a career high of 44… he went for 38 and 41 in this series

46 vs Rockets a couple seasons ago.

By Rob Go To PostIf JR can keep making those asshole 3s anything is possible

barring injury, Warriors got this. this has been the default setting of the league since week 3 of the regular season.

By Jonm Go To PostI don't think LMA or Kawhi are those type of players consistently enough. So in my mind to knock Pop for not treating them that way is a bit silly. And lets not dismiss that if you are going to build your team on ball movement and optimal shots to best utilize the totality of your current roster, you can't just turn that shit off randomly and not expect things to get a bit messy.

Warriors and every Carlisle Mavs and Phil Jackson teams did that. Lots of great teams did that. Pop's not the first guy to use a system or to preach ball movement. He hasn't treated anyone that way since he developed a system beyond just pounding it into Timmy.

I disagree with you about LMA and Kawhi. They can take over games plenty, they just like all other Spurs players though, are just there to run the system.


This board is a little hyper defensive about Pop and Timmy. It's...weird. When I first said that the Thunder had a chance to win like 5 guys started to debate with me. Then when I said that Pop is 2-10 in road elimination games, another group of guys got defensive or insisted it was a meaningless stat. Now I said that one Pop weakness is that he doesn't allow his superstars to take over games in the same way or as often as other great teams/coaches that run system offenses do and again a ton of backlash.

Literally all of these things are true and yet any mention of Pop brings out a weird hyper-defense. And I get that I'm the Phil/Kobe stan here, but that doesn't change the fact that that same thing is happening with Pop too.

By P S Y C H Go To Post46 vs Rockets a couple seasons ago.

fair enough... doesn't really change he has never gotten 50 or that he almost hit his career highs this playoffs but guess it is 46

like maybe the Thunder are just good and have 2 of the top 10 players in the league playing at the top of their games?

Fam. LMA still only out the playoffs one day after the Blazers. I know Clippers injuries had alot to do with it but still. Let that shit sink in.

For me blazers won The most surprise Team of season if blazers was in east easy in finais with cavs spurs lost one game home in all season and lost 2 home games against thunder lol warriors peak am over blazers made two ot games against then with no stars Durant and westbrook am better than curry klay Who agree? Thunder in five

By theignoramus Go To PostFam. LMA still only out the playoffs one day after the Blazers. I know Clippers injuries had alot to do with it but still. Let that shit sink in.

They weren't even supposed to in the playoffs. Plenty of teams have ravaged on injured Blazers teams to advance in the playoffs so the whole "but Clippers injuries" -- while unfortunate and I wish the Blazers beat them at full strength -- just rings hollow to me at the end of the day.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostNot 80, 50. And yea, LMA and Kawhi can both get you 50. Not on command, obviously, but they are good enough offensively where if they have the consistent green light that other teams give their superstars, they could get you 50. But it's more about the fact that they would never TRY because of the system and culture they're in.


I mean, they just finished an elimination game on the road when it got to like 12 points and 5 minutes left with Andre Miller, Manu, and TD on the floor when they had Kawhi and LMA available. That shit is the most Pop thing ever.

You say it like getting 50 is easy. Never mind that neither one of them have ever done it before. LMA could maybe do it if he's insanely on fire but probably not. And Kawhi definitely isnt ready yet offensively to go for dolo.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostWarriors and every Carlisle Mavs and Phil Jackson teams did that. Lots of great teams did that. Pop's not the first guy to use a system or to preach ball movement. He hasn't treated anyone that way since he developed a system beyond just pounding it into Timmy.

I disagree with you about LMA and Kawhi. They can take over games plenty, they just like all other Spurs players though, are just there to run the system.


This board is a little hyper defensive about Pop and Timmy. It's…weird. When I first said that the Thunder had a chance to win like 5 guys started to debate with me. Then when I said that Pop is 2-10 in road elimination games, another group of guys got defensive or insisted it was a meaningless stat. Now I said that one Pop weakness is that he doesn't allow his superstars to take over games in the same way or as often as other great teams/coaches that run system offenses do and again a ton of backlash.

Literally all of these things are true and yet any mention of Pop brings out a weird hyper-defense. And I get that I'm the Phil/Kobe stan here, but that doesn't change the fact that that same thing is happening with Pop too.

I respect what you are saying but there seems to be two maybe three underyong disagreements we just aren't going to get past here:

1.) That LMA and Kawhi are the sort of players you can consistently enough throw away your team philosophy to let them take over in important games even if you wanted to. That I think Pop has it about right with how to use them and that because he has been so efficient with Kawhi especially, that people think he is holding him back when in fact he is likely optimizing him to near perfection. For instance see the whole swapping Durant for Kawhi argument people have engaged in. Kinda of reminds me a bit of the Monty/AD talk we had in NO last year. In retrospect Monty honestly had AD playing about as best he could with the supporting cast he had and Demps was wrong in assuming he was being held back.

2.) That going the route you speak of with these players would yield a more optimal result over the long term then what Pop currently does. Which I would argue is not nearly as rigid as you make it out to be and that he does feed hot hands more then you give him credit for. As evidenced by LMA 41 and 38 point games most recently.

3.) I think we also seemingly place different values on when taking over a game makes sense for achieving an optimal outcome. For instance I don't think tonight makes that case. The three most efficient players were the only ones to take double digit shots.

We're not going to see eye to eye here so this argument seems like it will lilely just keep going in circles

I mean, if Kawhi had been picked by a lot of other teams he'd probably look like a hobo Paul George right now.

Its an interesting topic. I honestly always wondered what someone like gtyme would look like on the Spurs