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None of that is literally true. He's only ever played on average 1 or 2 guys over 35mpg and never above 40mpg. His minutes distribution looks identical to that of the Lebron-era Heat.

By reilo Go To PostNone of that is literally true. He's only ever played on average 1 or 2 guys over 35mpg and never above 40mpg. His minutes distribution looks identical to that of the Lebron-era Heat.

some guys can't handle even 30 minutes like that. its not a flat curve

he legit ran noah into the dirt. people can say what they want about deng. noah was begging with his eyes

Thibs probably played Noah too much, but the shoe company Noah's suing may have contributed. I don't know if we can put all the blame on him sine Noah did play 87% of the games during his 3 peak seasons. (2012-2015)

I was on the Thibs da rippah bandwagon until I heard some other shit from Deng and other places that led me to believe the medical staff was dogshit.

BUT, the one thing I'll point out of Thibs being really egregious with his minutes was during the '13 playoffs vs Miami(where they had no shot) where he played Jimmy(before he was a star) 48 minutes in 3/4 games and 45 minutes in another.

Brooks being hired by WAS would lead to Beal and Porter becoming good players, yes or no?

Thibs will kill some wolves you'll see.

By Forever Go To PostThibs will kill some wolves you'll see.

and brooklyn was making the playoffs this year, right? :p

I remember people complaining about Thibs minutes, so I went on NBA.com expecting to see the starters playing 40mpg minimum, with Jimmy Butler playing 45

shit wasnt even close

By P S Y C H Go To Postand brooklyn was making the playoffs this year, right? :p

I never said that. I hated Hollins.

By Forever Go To PostI never said that. I hated Hollins.

close enough

The Lakers hesitate – and lose chance to hire coach who long wanted them: Tom Thibodeau. @WojVerticalNBA column

Byron scott future

By reilo Go To PostNone of that is literally true. He's only ever played on average 1 or 2 guys over 35mpg and never above 40mpg. His minutes distribution looks identical to that of the Lebron-era Heat.

Look at the number of games those guys even played. None of them played 82 games. Most didn't even come close.

14-15 Butler was playing 39mpg, and missed 17 games. Guy comes back from an injury and plays 39.
Had 34 yo Pau playing 35mpg.
None of this top 7 mpg guys could even stay healthy anymore.

13-14 is Basically the road map of what I said. Either big minutes or virtually none. The drop off is insane. Basically from 30mpg to nothing. And Butler at 39mpg. Again. He virtually killed Noah that season to. Ran him into the ground.

Thibs minutes management and rotation management concern isn't a thing of fiction. It's really bad. I mean it's great he cares about winning that much. But care about winning chips, not the regular season.

This years Warriors are all under 35mpg. And they went for 73. They were busting ass trying to get to that figure. Admitting they were playing longer than they should have just to get to that margin.

Spurs are all under 30mpg except kawahi at 33 and LMA at 30.

By P S Y C H Go To Postclose enough

Lopez was as good as I expected.

By Forever Go To PostLopez was as good as I expected.

the record....

Can't believe Scott is still the coach. Go away.

Final structure of Thibodeau's deal w/Wolves expected to pay him in $8 million range annually with Scott Layden getting $2+ million annually

Even coaches eatin

By P S Y C H Go To Postthe record….

These are minor details.

By Omzz Go To PostByron scott future

its fine. everything's fine.

Spurs and Warriors are one of the deepest teams in the league. Those teams are also infinitely more talented than the Bulls and regularly blow teams out where their stars don't have to play 35-40mpg. In a close game in the fourth? You bet your ass Curry plays 35-40mins than 30.

Here are all the games this season when the Warriors played a close game, look at the minutes played:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511140GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511170GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511300UTA.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201512050TOR.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201512110BOS.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201512250GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201601020GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201512310HOU.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201601130DEN.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602060GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602200LAC.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602240MIA.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602270OKC.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201603010GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201603070GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604010GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604050GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604090MEM.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604100SAS.html

When the score is close, Curry, Klay and Green all play big minutes.

Who's moving with me to Minneapolis?

I believe in Thibs, but the worst thing he can do is buy what Reilo's selling. If he actually thinks playing dudes 37-40 min a game for long stretches of games over multiple seasons is fine, he'll kill that team before their window actually opens

Again, he's only ever played guys 35-39mpg like that with 1-2 players per season.

Oh, they made Thibs POBO too. That's interesting.

Thibs is an incredible coach so should be a good fit... I also think the Wolves are deeper than the Bulls were so the mins should be better and since he is president of basketball operations he won't have the same issues he had in Chi-town

But on the flip how good of a FO guy is he is still unknown

Bulls minutes break down from 2009-10 (Vinny Del Negro), 2010-15 (Thibs), 2015-16 (Hoiberg)

Bulls are a shallow ass team

Lebron-era Heat...

I am about ready to open a voting pool on which coach won't get interest from the Kings.

By blackace Go To PostDidn't Kerr do the same thing JVG is doing? TV? And what is Thibs doing to be fresh and on the forefront?

I think Thibs is a bit overrated because his O sets are really bad.

Kerr was noted for being a rigorous student of the game. There was a running inside joke about Kerr(heard it on TNT or something) and his meticulous note taking and nerdish presence at every Sloan conference and constantly trying to re-educate himself.

Thibs too took the season off to do pretty much a roadshow tour to absorb all he can from the best organizations in the league. In particular trying to rebuild his offensive understanding of the game as he has noted in several interviews.

Old habits may die hard so who knows, but he has been insanely busy and openly talking about his agenda of trying to improve his coaching ability...Will be interesting to see what the Wolves look like offensively next year.

By etiolation Go To PostI am about ready to open a voting pool on which coach won't get interest from the Kings.

who would be your preferred choice?

By etiolation Go To PostI am about ready to open a voting pool on which coach won't get interest from the Kings.

Who's even in charge over there these days?

By reilo Go To Post

Bulls minutes break down from 2009-10 (Vinny Del Negro), 2010-15 (Thibs), 2015-16 (Hoiberg)

Not talking about Hoiberg, or VDN. Irrelevant distractions. We're talking about Thibs minutes. Others can be bad too.

Thibs killed his guys. And doesn't dispute anything else I said. Also doesn't change the fact that once those guys play one season of those minutes, they never come close to playing a full season, 82 games, again. That should probably hint at something to you.

By reilo Go To PostAgain, he's only ever played guys 35-39mpg like that with 1-2 players per season.

Cause everyone else is DEAD.

Stotts era Blazers..


I'll stop there, but like I said, Thibs' rotations of his best 5 is completely in line with the rest of the league.

By giririsss Go To PostNot talking about Hoiberg, or VDN. Irrelevant distractions. We're talking about Thibs minutes. Others can be bad too.

Thibs killed his guys. And doesn't dispute anything else I said. Also doesn't change the fact that once those guys play one season of those minutes, they never come close to playing a full season, 82 games, again. That should probably hint at something to you.

Cause everyone else is DEAD.

Noah played 37mpg through 66 games in '12-'13 then he played 35mpg through 80 games in '13-'14

By giririsss Go To PostNot talking about Hoiberg, or VDN. Irrelevant distractions. We're talking about Thibs minutes. Others can be bad too.

Thibs killed his guys. And doesn't dispute anything else I said. Also doesn't change the fact that once those guys play one season of those minutes, they never come close to playing a full season, 82 games, again. That should probably hint at something to you.

Cause everyone else is DEAD.

There is a TON of correlation = causation with Thibs.

I think Minnesota will be a proving ground. An organization with a noted prestigious medical infrastructure and an ownership that has publicly said they are dedicated to making their training and medical systems a selling point for FA's.

If all of the sudden the roster starts looking like the Grizzlies or Pelicans, I think the charges against Thibs will become harder to dismiss.

I'm not really seeing the exceptionalism here of Thibs considering how many minutes tons of other players have endured as well as injuries. I think people saying he killed them or whatever need to provide more evidence of him doing shit different from other coaches.

By reilo Go To Post'll stop there, but like I said, Thibs' rotations of his best 5 is completely in line with the rest of the league.

dude cmon

kirk getting 30+ minutes is the same as dame?
deng the same as lebron

you can't just put numbers next to another and call it the same wear and tear

Ray Allen at 38 years of age played 28mpg under Spoelstra. Dwyane Wade with all his miles and injury history averaged 35mpg under Spo. Come on. DWYANE WADE.

Also, Kirk played 30mpg under Vinny as well.

By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostI'm not really seeing the exceptionalism here of Thibs considering how many minutes tons of other players have endured as well as injuries. I think people saying he killed them or whatever need to provide more evidence of him doing shit different from other coaches.

would you think wes seeing 30mpg this year is the same as 30mpg prior to his injury? the numbers almost never describe wear and tear on guys

ask knux about iguodala for example. he missed almost no games in philly but was he injured or banged up? almost constantly. he still shies from contact based on hits he took 5 years ago

also a good point

By DY_nasty Go To Postwould you think wes seeing 30mpg this year is the same as 30mpg prior to his injury? the numbers almost never describe wear and tear on guys

This goes both ways for me though which is why I'll accept the narrative with more proof he's done different from other coaches. Otherwise it's time to apply the same level of criticism to other coaches around the league.

By reilo Go To PostRay Allen at 38 years of age played 28mpg under Spoelstra. Dwyane Wade with all his miles and injury history averaged 35mpg under Spo. Come on. DWYANE WADE.

Also, Kirk played 30mpg under Vinny, not Thibs.

Ray Allen

Arguably the NBA player with the best conditioning of all-time?

And Wade wasn't even playing back to backs at one point lol. If Miami wasn't blowing teams out it would've been even worse. Hell, Wade having a notional 'year off' may have extended his career 2-3 years much like Paul Pierce and that Celtics tank season.

edit: in all reality, kirk shouldn't have seen more than 20 minutes per game for the last 3-4 years

By reilo Go To PostStotts era Blazers..


I'll stop there, but like I said, Thibs' rotations of his best 5 is completely in line with the rest of the league.

That doesn't matter. Thibs would, far too often, play guys 46-48 minutes in a game. That article that came out about Kobe's Achilles tear being preceded by 7 games of ridiculous minutes is the kind of thing we're talking about. Also, Lebron is built like a tank. Dude is indestructible. What he can handle in his prime is different from anyone else.

Playing guys insane minutes when they're injured instead of resting them. This is the kind of stuff Thibs did. He didn't get the reputation for no reason.

By P S Y C H Go To PostNoah played 37mpg through 66 games in '12-'13 then he played 35mpg through 80 games in '13-'14

Frankly I think the whole minutes thing is not where the argument even makes sense. Because as you say he isnt much worse then many other teams.

I think practice and the behind the scenes stuff is where the magnifying glass should be looked at. I remember a story about Thibs doing one of his notoriously early film sessions and some player coming in to do a light shoot around and Thibs took that opportunity to put that player through some sort of intense practice session. Thats the sort of stuff I think holds some weight in arguing Thibs over-intensity.

However, the rebuke from his defenders has been that while his practices are notably tough, very tough. He also paces the practices accordingly. So who knows, and who knows if a ton of time in SA or GS and Minnesota's likely concerns have softened him a bit...Or if he even actually needed softening?

We also know what kinda players the likes of Butler, Noah, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. are. You think Thibs or their respective coaches wouldn't had to deal with some shit if he played Butler 30mpg and put guys like like Snell in for close to 28mpg instead of the 20mpg?

really excited to see KAT next season

By Jonm Go To PostFrankly I think the whole minutes thing is not where the argument even makes sense. Because as you say he isnt much worse then many other teams.

I think practice and the behind the scenes stuff is where the magnifying glass should be looked at. I remember a story about Thibs doing one of his notoriously early film sessions and some player coming in to do a light shoot around and Thibs took that opportunity to put that player through some sort of intense practice session. Thats the sort of stuff I think holds some weight in arguing Thibs over-intensity.

However, the rebuke from his defenders has been that while his practices are notably tough, very tough. He also paces the practices accordingly. So who knows, and who knows if a ton of time in SA or GS and Minnesota's likely concerns have softened him a bit.

I also look at how Clifford and Thibs are from the same branch and I know how bad Clifford is with guys returning from injury or dealing with nagging injuries.

They believe that if guys can walk, they can play. Old school as hell.

By P S Y C H Go To PostNoah played 37mpg through 66 games in '12-'13 then he played 35mpg through 80 games in '13-'14

And noah has NEVER recovered. He's not what he was. He may have taken 3 or 4 years off of Noahs career.

By reilo Go To PostWe also know what kinda players the likes of Butler, Noah, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. are. You think Thibs or their respective coaches wouldn't had to deal with some shit if he played Butler 30mpg and put guys like like Snell in for close to 28mpg instead of the 20mpg?

You make it sound like Thibs ever caught flak from his players or would even tolerate it lol. The only guy that came at Thibs is due to explain to a grand jury how hopping into a sex sling with the homies implies consensual intercourse.

He played Joakim Noah 37+ minutes in 15 out of the first 21 games in the 2010-2011 season. He got hurt 3 games later and missed like two months. Came back from injury and played fewer minutes so his averages went down but that doesn't accurately describe the insane minute load he was on for a solid month right before getting injured.

Next season was a lot more moderate and balanced across the board.

2012-2013 - started the season playing 21 of the first 25 games over 37 minutes. Including 17 of those games being over 40 minutes.

He played over 38 minutes 38 times that season and missed like 15 games due to injury. All of those guys would have averaged 40 minutes or more if their bodies didn't break down and the FO wasn't begging and pleading with him to lower their minutes.

By reilo Go To PostWe also know what kinda players the likes of Butler, Noah, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. are. You think Thibs or their respective coaches wouldn't had to deal with some shit if he played Butler 30mpg and put guys like like Snell in for close to 28mpg instead of the 20mpg?

Thibs was playing guys minutes in games that were lost though.

And yeah, these days, fans are more tolerant of losing one or two more regular season games if it means winning one or two more post season games.

so the Kings are set to interview Mark Jackson, Vinny the Black and Sam Mitchell? bahahaha