By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostRambis and Shaw are bad fits for this situation. Although I do think that giving Shaw a team full of non-cancers and locker room disasters will work. The problem is that the recent job openings have made the open coach positions so plentiful that the 4 or 5 really good coaches out there will have their pick of the litter. If they all want executive power there's no way that NY gets them.
Rambis is a bad fit anywhere. Shaw isn't made for NY Knicks Fuckery, he couldn't keep it together in Denver. If Rambis or Shaw comes back I am pretty sure that the goal will be run the triangle and tank next year.
If Walton comes I'm assuming it will be to try and mix the traditional triangle with some of the hybrid triangle plays that the Warriors do now. Considering Phil's Triangle Hard-on it makes a lot of sense.
By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostRambis is a bad fit anywhere. Shaw isn't made for NY Knicks Fuckery, he couldn't keep it together in Denver. If Rambis or Shaw comes back I am pretty sure that the goal will be run the triangle and tank next year.
If Walton comes I'm assuming it will be to try and mix the traditional triangle with some of the hybrid triangle plays that the Warriors do now. Considering Phil's Triangle Hard-on it makes a lot of sense.
I think it's clear now that shaw had a near impossible locker room dynamic. There's an article that talks about the people he had issues with....all of them were either shipped out or not given offers to come back.
Kind of shit where I think he deserves another chance around a more mature locker room with established vets that aren't alcoholics.
Players in Indy and LA loved him too.
Coaches aren't independent of locker room dynamics. Shit, its typically on them to bring in or change the culture.
Shaw had a shit locker room and couldn't change it. That's on him.
Phoenix was at least different because the FO made it a point to fuck cohesion at least twice a season.
Shaw had a shit locker room and couldn't change it. That's on him.
Phoenix was at least different because the FO made it a point to fuck cohesion at least twice a season.
By DY_nasty Go To PostCoaches aren't independent of locker room dynamics. Shit, its typically on them to bring in or change the culture.
Shaw had a shit locker room and couldn't change it. That's on him.
Phoenix was at least different because the FO made it a point to fuck cohesion at least twice a season.
Alcoholic star In a downward spiral on a team with Javale McGee is a unique situation.
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/3/8142915/brian-shaw-fired-nuggets-coach-history
Again, none of those guys are on the team for a reason. I don't want him coaching the lakers because I don't trust him to coach a dysfunctional bunch of rookies. But not all situations are as risky or as toxic is that Denver one by a longshot.
Fucking Andre Miller lost his mind because he wasn't subbed into ONE game and lost a personal streak or something. That team had devolved into me first knuckleheads with no professionalism who were acting out at the FO for dismissing Karl who they all loved.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostAlcoholic star In a downward spiral on a team with Javale McGee is a unique situation.they did?
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/3/8142915/brian-shaw-fired-nuggets-coach-history
Again, none of those guys are on the team for a reason. I don't want him coaching the lakers because I don't trust him to coach a dysfunctional bunch of rookies. But not all situations are as risky or as toxic is that Denver one by a longshot.
Fucking Andre Miller lost his mind because he wasn't subbed into ONE game and lost a personal streak or something. That team had devolved into me first knuckleheads with no professionalism who were acting out at the FO for dismissing Karl who they all loved.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostAlcoholic star In a downward spiral on a team with Javale McGee is a unique situation.Blaming it ALL on Shaw is b/s - but what positives did he actually bring?
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/3/8142915/brian-shaw-fired-nuggets-coach-history
Again, none of those guys are on the team for a reason. I don't want him coaching the lakers because I don't trust him to coach a dysfunctional bunch of rookies. But not all situations are as risky or as toxic is that Denver one by a longshot.
Fucking Andre Miller lost his mind because he wasn't subbed into ONE game and lost a personal streak or something. That team had devolved into me first knuckleheads with no professionalism who were acting out at the FO for dismissing Karl who they all loved.
Like.... dude brought zero solutions. Fire him. He didn't bring in a positive change on any level. Anybody can go into a locker room, leave it in the same condition its in, let the fires continue to burn, and lay out xs and os. And yeah, fucking over Andre Miller the way that he did deserves all the scrutiny that it received. He's one of the better liked guys in the league, and you chop him of all people? Shaw doing that showed that he's only capable of communicating with people that won't eventually tune him out. Andre still listened, still reacted - and Shaw couldn't get through to anyone else. Being petty as fuck became Shaw's calling card.
By DY_nasty Go To PostBlaming it ALL on Shaw is b/s - but what positives did he actually bring?
Like…. dude brought zero solutions. Fire him. He didn't bring in a positive change on any level. Anybody can go into a locker room, leave it in the same condition its in, let the fires continue to burn, and lay out xs and os. And yeah, fucking over Andre Miller the way that he did deserves all the scrutiny that it received. He's one of the better liked guys in the league, and you chop him of all people? Shaw doing that showed that he's only capable of communicating with people that won't eventually tune him out. Andre still listened, still reacted - and Shaw couldn't get through to anyone else. Being petty as fuck became Shaw's calling card.
He should have been fired cuz he lost the team. Anyone who loses he team should be fired even if you're a HoFer. But as Phil in NY and Karl in Sacramento is showing, there are just dysfunctional and toxic situations that even HoF caliber dudes can't improve without cleaning house.
That Denver situation was a catastrophe pretty much no matter who got involved. He didn't handle it well, but all those guys needed to be shipped out.
Shaw got petty because an alcoholic wife beater was staging a mutiny and tanking mid season.
A coach is supposed to be someone you can deal with on a human level to some degree and someone who can be honest and maybe even stick up or protect the players from the FO..
Even for all the silly mind games PJ plays with the players who aren't so good, he does connect with his stars.
Pop is the greatest example of it doing it...
This is why Horny lost control of the locker room because he couldn't protect the players in the slightest from the fuckery of PHX
Even for all the silly mind games PJ plays with the players who aren't so good, he does connect with his stars.
Pop is the greatest example of it doing it...
This is why Horny lost control of the locker room because he couldn't protect the players in the slightest from the fuckery of PHX
By blackace Go To PostA coach is supposed to be someone you can deal with on a human level to some degree and someone who can be honest and maybe even stick up or protect the players from the FO..
Even for all the silly mind games PJ plays with the players who aren't so good, he does connect with his stars.
Pop is the greatest example of it doing it…
This is why Horny lost control of the locker room because he couldn't protect the players in the slightest from the fuckery of PHX
Pops a bad example. He runs the FO basically and only gets Pop kinda guys in there. He's amazing, but he's not exactly inheriting a group of wife beaters and alcoholics and knuckleheads without any assurances from FO that his job is secure. If there's a player on that team it's because pop wanted him in the first place. Makes it easy to stick up for a guy you wanted.
No one makes that situation in Denver work. No one.
Again, I don't think Shaw's shown he's a good coach. Just that the Denver situation was a ticking time bomb that not all situations are like. NY has plenty of level headed guys, and their young guys are all mature enough that with Phil's blessing Shaw could conceivably succeed in.
Phoenix's FO brought drama in at every stage. FA, coaching staff, trades, family
But I doubt Lawson had the power to derail a team like that... I think he might've been the most visible, sure. But people struggle to name positives Shaw brought to Denver.
But I doubt Lawson had the power to derail a team like that... I think he might've been the most visible, sure. But people struggle to name positives Shaw brought to Denver.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostPops a bad example. He runs the FO basically and only gets Pop kinda guys in there. He's amazing, but he's not exactly inheriting a group of wife beaters and alcoholics and knuckleheads without any assurances from FO that his job is secure. If there's a player on that team it's because pop wanted him in the first place. Makes it easy to stick up for a guy you wanted.That's bullshit lol
No one makes that situation in Denver work. No one.
Again, I don't think Shaw's shown he's a good coach. Just that the Denver situation was a ticking time bomb that not all situations are like. NY has plenty of level headed guys, and their young guys are all mature enough that with Phil's blessing Shaw could conceivably succeed in.
All the reports are basically that Thibs is the guy for the Wolves. He wants the job and Taylor is willing to let him hire the GM.
I should just be excited at the prospect of winning games next year, right?
I should just be excited at the prospect of winning games next year, right?
By rodeoclown Go To PostAll the reports are basically that Thibs is the guy for the Wolves. He wants the job and Taylor is willing to let him hire the GM.Thibs is the best coach on the market. To get someone better than him, you would have to strike gold with an unknown.
I should just be excited at the prospect of winning games next year, right?
By reilo Go To PostHow did Mike Malone make it work in Sacramento and now in Denver?He's good at give and take while still commanding a position of authority and respect. How he does that, I dunno.
By Kibner Go To PostThibs is the best coach on the market. To get someone better than him, you would have to strike gold with an unknown.I don't disagree. He would have them playing defense and prepared for every single game. I guess the worry is his minutes allocation. Like, he wouldn't be able to run Ricky 40 minutes a night. But the training staff is really good and, presumably, he'll answers for these concerns in the interviews.
I'd be more worried about Thibs offensive schemes: lack of three-point shooting, super large and methodical lineups, slow down pace, ISO heavy... almost completely wrong for that young group. He needs to let Ricky be a floor leader on offense and instill good defensive schemes on the other.
By rodeoclown Go To PostI don't disagree. He would have them playing defense and prepared for every single game. I guess the worry is his minutes allocation. Like, he wouldn't be able to run Ricky 40 minutes a night. But the training staff is really good and, presumably, he'll answers for these concerns in the interviews.I think the minutes issues with him are overblown. An empowered training staff is also great for keeping that in check.
It will be interesting to see what kind of offense they will play. I'm not sure if he is married to a slow pace offense. He has run several interesting sets based on off-ball movement, so that may be interesting.
By Omzz Go To PostCool, raptors get 9th:knicks:
Kings get 8th. Sorry Bulls fans.
edit: As for how Malone does keep a locker room tight, from what I've heard from Sac people and Denver people is that he's consistent in what he does and says, he stands up for his players, and he takes responsibility for his mistakes. Players will take criticism from him because they feel he's with them and he's taking the blame, too.
edit: As for how Malone does keep a locker room tight, from what I've heard from Sac people and Denver people is that he's consistent in what he does and says, he stands up for his players, and he takes responsibility for his mistakes. Players will take criticism from him because they feel he's with them and he's taking the blame, too.
By reilo Go To PostHow did Mike Malone make it work in Sacramento and now in Denver?
He didn't. Denver got rid of Lawson, McGee and vets like Afflalo and Miller who were more concerned with playing time than anything else at this stage. You kind of see that with AA in NY since he got benched - same attitude. He's a good coach and all, but this Denver squad is not the same as the last one in terms of the bad apples that were creating most of the issues.
Denver going through all that roster turnover tells me they knew that these issues were a two way street.
By etiolation Go To PostKings get 8th. Sorry Bulls fans.This was one of the big storylines I was following throughout the season. How much longer does it have to be a top 10 pick before it converts to second rounders?
By Kibner Go To PostThis was one of the big storylines I was following throughout the season. How much longer does it have to be a top 10 pick before it converts to second rounders?
I believe this was the last year. Next year it turns into a second rounder.
Rachel Nichols thinks Phil Jackson is right when he says he knows more about basketball than others, but he doesn't seem to be drawing on that knowledge in his decision-making with the Knicks.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostIt's incredible that the pick hasn't conveyed in 5 years.The Wolves never conveyed the pick they owed Boston (through Phoenix). That had to be four years.
God bless JJ Hickson.
Alas, they very probably give the Hawks a first next summer. For Adreian Payne. Who didn't play on 29 win team.
By etiolation Go To PostI believe this was the last year. Next year it turns into a second rounder.Yay! My second team gets to keep their first rounder if they are actually somewhat successful next season!
By reilo Go To Postor maybe the reports are correct that he wants to bail asap.
so that means he's sabotaging his decisions.
also
According to former Lakers great and soon to be Hall of Fame center Shaquille O'Neal, the team's next superstar isn't on their roster yet, but will be this summer.wat.
When asked where Oklahoma City forward Kevin Durant will play next season, Shaq paused, smiled, and named the team he won three titles with at the turn of the Century. "The Los Angeles Lakers," said O'Neal.
this is bs. why would durant come here?
byron is almost gone.
the FO is in civil war
and we're in full reboot now.
he's better off in OKC, DC or Memphis.
By rodeoclown Go To PostThe Wolves never conveyed the pick they owed Boston (through Phoenix). That had to be four years.
Alas, they very probably give the Hawks a first next summer. For Adreian Payne. Who didn't play on 29 win team.
Can't believe we snagged a first round pick for him
By Kabro Go To Postor maybe the reports are correct that he wants to bail asap.
so that means he's sabotaging his decisions.
also
wat.
this is bs. why would durant come here?
byron is almost gone.
the FO is in civil war
and we're in full reboot now.
he's better off in OKC, DC or Memphis.
Shaq is nobody's confidant. He ain't coming here.
By reilo Go To Post
I watched that, she's awesome but she's wrong. The Knicks ended up above their expected win loss projections earlier in the year despite one season removed from a full tank job. Assuming Hernangomez comes over and he's any good and Williams and LT come back, their FC is completely set for the next 3-5 years.
Basically just need to go out and get NBA quality guards now and a coach not named Rambis and they're fine.
Criticism of the triangle is silly in the same breath as "use a system to fit your players". All their best players are effective in the post and cutting and their best 3 point threats this season were entirely average.
Of course we know their defense was the bigger issue. If that improves with real upgraded backcourt they're gonna be just fine.
By Kabro Go To Postalso
wat.
this is bs. why would durant come here?
byron is almost gone.
the FO is in civil war
and we're in full reboot now.
he's better off in OKC, DC or Memphis.
I know LA media is light weight compared to NY, but Durant gets all bitchy at the OKC media. I"m not even sure he would like the added attention. You know the comparisons to Kobe would come too. I would love for him to come if he thinks he up for it (rebuild, media, FO drama) but I don't see it myself. Doesn't make sense if he wants to win and win fast.
I wonder if players think the next two to three years are GS's to lose though.
Correction on that Hickson trade
So next year is the final year.
If neither player develops this season, it looks like the trade would have been a wash … if not for the protected draft pick that the Kings sent back to Cleveland. That pick will stay with the Kings in 2012 unless they make the playoffs, and is protected in the top 13 in 2013, top 12 in 2014 and top 10 from 2015 through 2017. If the Kings have a top-10 pick through 2017, it becomes a second-round pick. Also, the Kings will have not made the playoffs in 11 seasons. At some point, it will likely be handed over somewhere between No. 10 and 20.
So next year is the final year.
At some point, it will likely be handed over somewhere between No. 10 and 20.Well, I like the optimism.
You can tell that was written before the local press finally realized the Maloofs were trying to Major League the city and team.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostI watched that, she's awesome but she's wrong. The Knicks ended up above their expected win loss projections earlier in the year despite one season removed from a full tank job.
Knicks never tanked they just sucked, there's a difference.
So what is the top coaching job available? Minnesota? New York is glamorous, but it's triangle only and high pressure. Houston is a playoff team, but that situation feels shakier than the Kings in some ways. I'm not sure how long Morey will hang around if the team has plateau'd.
By Rob Go To PostKnicks never tanked they just sucked, there's a difference.
Melo injured his knee. They sucked. Then they shut down Melo, bought out Amare, traded their remaining starters and played d league guys. That's tanking
By etiolation Go To PostSo what is the top coaching job available? Minnesota? New York is glamorous, but it's triangle only and high pressure. Houston is a playoff team, but that situation feels shakier than the Kings in some ways. I'm not sure how long Morey will hang around if the team has plateau'd.Am I a homer to say the Wolves? Towns, Wiggins, Rubio, another top-6 pick, a clean salary cap. The next guy is set up to win next year and for foreseeable future. Flip did good. But it seems like it's preordained that it's going to be Thibs, so there's no real mystery.
Nah it's not homerism, TWolves is where you want to be if you want to win in the near future as a coach.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostMelo injured his knee. They sucked. Then they shut down Melo, bought out Amare, traded their remaining starters and played d league guys. That's tankinginjuring his knee isn't tanking
Durant HAD to get Perkins to sign a NDA before even telling him where his options are this summer, no one is going to publicly leak or say anything. Chances are everyone who knows, even family is under a KD NDA.
We'll find out this summer. Shaq and everyone else don't know where Durant is going and if they did, they wouldn't leak anything, even falsify it, because of legal binding issues.
We'll find out this summer. Shaq and everyone else don't know where Durant is going and if they did, they wouldn't leak anything, even falsify it, because of legal binding issues.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostMelo injured his knee. They sucked. Then they shut down Melo, bought out Amare, traded their remaining starters and played d league guys. That's tankingFull tank job to me implies that Knicks went into the season planning to tank.
They gave up midway once they realized how bad they were and even then it wasn't a real tank because they won meaningless games that made them go from possibly getting KAT to praying that Porzingis wasn't Barg 2.0
By rodeoclown Go To PostAm I a homer to say the Wolves? Towns, Wiggins, Rubio, another top-6 pick, a clean salary cap. The next guy is set up to win next year and for foreseeable future. Flip did good. But it seems like it's preordained that it's going to be Thibs, so there's no real mystery.
If player development goes better than expected and your core becomes KAT, Wiggins, and whoever else.
Wouldn't the expectation for some of these players to win while they are young and as rookies, like with OKC, so that they don't run into possible salary issues and having to choose between stars in the future like OKC?
Like surround them with veterans, make them bloom, and have them be as successful as possible before they realize their max value and having to result to trading or losing certain players?
Getting stars and veterans who are good that you know you can afford to play with this strong core while they're cheap?
By reilo Go To PostThat NDA story is bullshit lol
Is it? I only remember something like this from someone posting it here. So KD didn't have a player sign NDAs before knowing where his options are?
I mean if I couldn't keep it to myself, that is what I would do if I was a star.
By shun Go To PostIs it? I only remember something like this from someone posting it here. So KD didn't have a player sign NDAs before knowing where his options are?Perk was attempting to tell a joke.
I mean if I couldn't keep it to myself, that is what I would do if I was a star.
He probably served as a sounding board for Durant and promised he'll keep it confidential, but no nda or other form of legal binding.
The Wolves really shouldn't try and just skip ahead with veterans. Other outside factors were at play like Gugliotta leaving, the Marbury trade demand, but that's how you end up with the supporting cast that Garnett had for years and years.
The plan should really be to just stay the course, draft a guy like Jamal Murray and continue the build. This is not a free agent market to go out spend a lot of money. With the guys they have, they'll still win games.
The plan should really be to just stay the course, draft a guy like Jamal Murray and continue the build. This is not a free agent market to go out spend a lot of money. With the guys they have, they'll still win games.