Does this dude calling the Mavs game not realize the score
getting hype over fast break Mavs dunks down 20
getting hype over fast break Mavs dunks down 20
By Jonm Go To PostWhat does this even mean? Both the Spurs and Warriors are literally operating systems that would be near textbook implementations of ideal analytical systems. Warriors especially. And they just won a chip and finished the season with the best record in history.
Every time a team wins a chip the analytics crowd comes in and claims at as one of it's own and insists that somehow those teams are more analytics driven than The Orlando's and Philly's and Houston's of the world. It's such revisionist history nonsense. But you were the doing going on and on and on last season in debates with me about Morey being a success so. I get where you're coming from, you're just wrong.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2015/09/18/warriors-jerry-west-doesnt-see-analytically-based-nba-teams-having-a-lot-of-success/
“When we make decisions, analytics are never more than 50 percent of the decisions. So that would lead you to think that the eye test is important. But it doesn’t mean we dismiss analytics out of hand. We don’t do that. We insert them in the equation of every decision we make. But I think sometimes if you use them to be greater than 50 percent of your decisions in the sense that they’re the majority of the decision, I think then that for us personally, we would stray from that type of thing.
The analytics community, because they're honestly a bunch of self-serving hacks, will jump on the bandwagon of any organization that succeeds and claim it as it's own despite their being VERY VERY VERY clear cut old-school basketball minds signing off on all decisions. Somehow you want me to believe that the FO's in Orlando and Houston and Philly are less analytically driven than Pop and Riley and West? Yea sorry, I'm not buying it.
The GS warriors aren't playing an analytic brand of basketball. The GS warriors are playing to their strengths, which in some ways lends itself to analytic based basketball. But that's because they have the best shooting backcourt EVER and another handful of 40% three-point shooters. Even with that, they still take time to post up Livingston and Klay and Draymond and Bogut and run very sophisticated offensive sets.
By Jonm Go To PostWhat does this even mean? Both the Spurs and Warriors are literally operating systems that would be near textbook implementations of ideal analytical systems. Warriors especially. And they just won a chip and finished the season with the best record in history.Basketball is a sport of chemistry...You can't just plug a bunch of players together and expect it to work... Everything from spacing to matchups affects a player's statline...
Jerry West said it best... it's a tool that factors into the final verdict but it's not the end all...
By blackace Go To PostBasketball is a sport of chemistry…You can't just plug a bunch of players together and expect it to work… Everything from spacing to matchups affects a player's statline…
Jerry West said it best… it's a tool that factors into the final verdict but it's not the end all…
The funny thing is that the quote isn't even West. He's even more dismissive then that. That quote is from Myers, their "analytically friendly" GM.
My argument is simple, that Apple didn't succeed because it had the best accountants. It succeeded because it had the best computing/engineering/design/visionary minds in the industry.
The Analytics community has its place, in the background, like accountants do. To provide information to the best Basketball minds and allow them to make decisions. Not to actually run the basketball ops and have final say in the decisions.
Analytics has its place but again at the end of the day, toxic players will fuck a team up, bad chemistry will fuck a team up and general dumbfuckery outside of the game will fuck a team up. Analytics doesn't tell you who's going to be a major pain your ass, it's simply "this player does this at any given time on the court." How they affect their team mates is pretty up in the air far as team chemistry goes. The human factor is always lulzy and unpredictable but a good GM can feel dudes out or just generally go "yeah I don't need a maximum amount of fuckboys on my team" Obviously Morey failed at this hard.
but it's not as clear as like baseball... because in theory a player's stats should be about the same no matter what team they play for... but basketball can have big changes depending how a player fits
Oh definitely it's mostly because of more movement around the space than any other sport I think. Baseball bros are pretty much set in place. Even football when compared with Basketball really. Also defense and offense, no real transition, you just switch, sometimes players even (obvs in football). Basketball you gotta do both and within seconds of each other.
By 33MillionDollarMen Go To PostOh definitely it's mostly because of more movement around the space than any other sport I think. Baseball bros are pretty much set in place. Even football when compared with Basketball really.football has a lot of chemistry that they don't get credit for... the O line can be crazy in schemes.
Baseball is basically pitcher vs batter
By blackace Go To Postfootball has a lot of chemistry that they don't get credit for… the O line can be crazy in schemes.Football has also had some hilarious (read also tragic and fucked up) nonsense off the field. Baseball of course too but man I remember when the 90s cowboys were just constantly getting in trouble for shit.
I think both are needed...but overeliance on either leads to shit.
I have seen both sides of the coin. Hinkie relied waaay too much on it and that meant he ignored the "human" element to things and that ended up being his downfall. The idea of taking BPA is great...but eventually you need to field an actual roster. 3s over long twos makes a lot of sense but only when you have the dudes to do it...and even then some times an open shot is just better than throwing your self at the rim or jacking up asshole 3s. and then you just have to realize that these are people and not robots..and getting bodied on a daily basis wears on them. (I also think Hinkie wanting to get guys who can hit 3s at any cost to run his system ended up fucking him too...as a team full of long athletes would have made being complete ass a lot easier because people could at least see cool dunks and tough defense. rather than midgets chucking 3s and getting wrecked). Basically some more conventional ideas would have helped atleast get people off his back...like if he took anybody other than Jah for example, he could have save himself. But nah "da process doe"
however on the flip side, Doug Collins "old school" methods only, also can suck. It leads to a team with no future and no chance to do anything until some shortsighted move is made in hopes of perhaps becoming a second round team. In which you draft guys and only play them when they are "ready", less 3s and more iso ball, you then get to the playoffs due to being a scrappy cool team that surprises teams in the regular season, only to get nearly swept because you iso dribble dribble fadeaway offense doesn't work as well unless you "go to scorer" (in which you probably don't really have) is hot. You then either spend the next 3-5 years doing the same shit, or you go for broke and it "works" out for a bit or...it backfires and now you are bad with no assets to improve much. Its not great.
You need both. You need the ability to pin point where the league is headed, and create an offense that works in the regular season but also in the playoffs. You need to find away to get top talent without selling your soul for too long. You need to have the ability to make moves but also never trap yourself afterwards. It is all easier said than done of course...I thought Hinkie had it but he was too stubborn. He always went on about being able to adjust....but he never did. He held steadfast in his numbers and that was a mistake. But again the opposite can also suck as sometimes, you just need to take a step back, get your shit together, and have a down year (JUST ONE...NOT EIGHTY) rather than throw money and picks around to try to stay afloat. There is a happy medium. It hard to find it though.
I have seen both sides of the coin. Hinkie relied waaay too much on it and that meant he ignored the "human" element to things and that ended up being his downfall. The idea of taking BPA is great...but eventually you need to field an actual roster. 3s over long twos makes a lot of sense but only when you have the dudes to do it...and even then some times an open shot is just better than throwing your self at the rim or jacking up asshole 3s. and then you just have to realize that these are people and not robots..and getting bodied on a daily basis wears on them. (I also think Hinkie wanting to get guys who can hit 3s at any cost to run his system ended up fucking him too...as a team full of long athletes would have made being complete ass a lot easier because people could at least see cool dunks and tough defense. rather than midgets chucking 3s and getting wrecked). Basically some more conventional ideas would have helped atleast get people off his back...like if he took anybody other than Jah for example, he could have save himself. But nah "da process doe"
however on the flip side, Doug Collins "old school" methods only, also can suck. It leads to a team with no future and no chance to do anything until some shortsighted move is made in hopes of perhaps becoming a second round team. In which you draft guys and only play them when they are "ready", less 3s and more iso ball, you then get to the playoffs due to being a scrappy cool team that surprises teams in the regular season, only to get nearly swept because you iso dribble dribble fadeaway offense doesn't work as well unless you "go to scorer" (in which you probably don't really have) is hot. You then either spend the next 3-5 years doing the same shit, or you go for broke and it "works" out for a bit or...it backfires and now you are bad with no assets to improve much. Its not great.
You need both. You need the ability to pin point where the league is headed, and create an offense that works in the regular season but also in the playoffs. You need to find away to get top talent without selling your soul for too long. You need to have the ability to make moves but also never trap yourself afterwards. It is all easier said than done of course...I thought Hinkie had it but he was too stubborn. He always went on about being able to adjust....but he never did. He held steadfast in his numbers and that was a mistake. But again the opposite can also suck as sometimes, you just need to take a step back, get your shit together, and have a down year (JUST ONE...NOT EIGHTY) rather than throw money and picks around to try to stay afloat. There is a happy medium. It hard to find it though.
lol at anyone looking at individual DRTG between players on different teams. that is the most worthless use of that stat. You are supposed to use it when comparing lineups vs like lineups. And even then, it just uses box score stats to be calculated which are of very dubious use in defensive stats.
I truly believe that with one more off-season Hinkie's approach would've started working.
Probably his biggest problem was how much the rest of the league disliked him.
Probably his biggest problem was how much the rest of the league disliked him.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostEvery time a team wins a chip the analytics crowd comes in and claims at as one of it's own and insists that somehow those teams are more analytics driven than The Orlando's and Philly's and Houston's of the world. It's such revisionist history nonsense. But you were the doing going on and on and on last season in debates with me about Morey being a success so. I get where you're coming from, you're just wrong.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2015/09/18/warriors-jerry-west-doesnt-see-analytically-based-nba-teams-having-a-lot-of-success/
The analytics community, because they're honestly a bunch of self-serving hacks, will jump on the bandwagon of any organization that succeeds and claim it as it's own despite their being VERY VERY VERY clear cut old-school basketball minds signing off on all decisions. Somehow you want me to believe that the FO's in Orlando and Houston and Philly are less analytically driven than Pop and Riley and West? Yea sorry, I'm not buying it.
The GS warriors aren't playing an analytic brand of basketball. The GS warriors are playing to their strengths, which in some ways lends itself to analytic based basketball. But that's because they have the best shooting backcourt EVER and another handful of 40% three-point shooters. Even with that, they still take time to post up Livingston and Klay and Draymond and Bogut and run very sophisticated offensive sets.
The GS warriors ABSOLUTELY are playing an analytic brand of basketball. Whether its origin is happenstance or intentional and how much so seems to be your sticking point. They didn't just begin valuing threes and shots at the rim in a vacuum. Kerr and Gentry didn't just come up with how best to maximize the rosters efficiency by lighting a joint. Kerr wasn't nerding out at Sloan just to look cool.
Shit like this is out there to attest to their organizations belief and dedication to it
I never once said that Philly for instance is less invested in analytics. Analytics are a tool, and it is a form of infrastructure and decision making for pretty much every team right now. Teams like GS and SA have been on the forefront of it in many areas. This is not debatable. They are analytics teams. End of story. That doesn't mean I am saying it is what is driving all their decisions 100%.
Having superior minds(and I would argue a willingness to use analytics is a component of good decision making) AND having advanced analytical infrastructure is what has helped put teams like SA and GS over the top. All analytics is is information and when you combine superior information infrastructure with superior minds and find some superior talent you tend to build something pretty impressive.
So who's left in the available HC pool? Thibs is gone, Brooks is gone.. I've tolerated Bickerstaff this season because I assumed he was only there for the interim. I don't think I could take another season of this.
By knux-future Go To PostBut again the opposite can also suck as sometimes, you just need to take a step back, get your shit together, and have a down year (JUST ONE…NOT EIGHTY) rather than throw money and picks around to try to stay afloat. There is a happy medium. It hard to find it though.Flip got lucky in the lottery and landed Towns, but I think he got this part right. He realized Martin, Rubio and Pekovic weren't coming back last year, so he let Wiggins and LaVine just play 35, 40 minutes a night on the way to 16 wins. It was really hard, but it wasn't like he intended to keep losing. He also kind of straddled the analytics/eye test pretty well, recognizing the value of guys like Ricky and Towns while also going for a home run with a guy like LaVine.
yep. Hinkie doubling down last draft killed him. Mudiay sucked ass too so its not like taking him would be better for us, and who knows about Mario but if he just took two non big men (the other 80 were traded to the Kings...so that worked out) to field some kind of balanced roster, he'd still have a job. We would have still sucked because of our youth but it wouldn't have looked as bad and he'd have something to show for it instead of 3 guys who can't fit. But naw muh process doe
Can't rely on the "We gonna build through the draft!" plan when you haven't gotten a single NBA rotation player out of the oodles of second round picks you stockpiled.
You have to outperform the expected value of your draft picks for your plan to work.
You have to outperform the expected value of your draft picks for your plan to work.
Warriors payroll could get out of control here soon
Livingston is probably going to want starter minutes and money, Festus will be fishing for dollars, Harrison is already looking for max, Speights deserves a raise...
that asshole gonna get tight
Livingston is probably going to want starter minutes and money, Festus will be fishing for dollars, Harrison is already looking for max, Speights deserves a raise...
that asshole gonna get tight
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostCan't rely on the "We gonna build through the draft!" plan when you haven't gotten a single NBA rotation player out of the oodles of second round picks you stockpiled.KJ and Grant are rotation players. Holmes has a chance to be one too. However due to the roster layout and doubling down on tanking...KJ was traded and Holmes and Grant are going to get pushed out by Saric more than likely. So whooops
You have to outperform the expected value of your draft picks for your plan to work.
By Dark PhaZe Go To PostWarriors payroll could get out of control here soonLivingston has a team option next year so he's back for sure. but you're right, i think barnes is gone after this season and ezeli gets resigned for 10 mil per or so
Livingston is probably going to want starter minutes and money, Festus will be fishing for dollars, Harrison is already looking for max, Speights deserves a raise…
that asshole gonna get tight
Durant just said that he rather not go back home due to all of the extra stress of family members and hanger ons.
By Dark PhaZe Go To PostWarriors payroll could get out of control here soonThe only real loss there is Livingston. Maybe Festus to a smaller extent.
Livingston is probably going to want starter minutes and money, Festus will be fishing for dollars, Harrison is already looking for max, Speights deserves a raise…
that asshole gonna get tight
Harrison doesn't even deserve the old max, let alone whatever the new one will be.
By knux-future Go To PostDurant just said that he rather not go back home due to all of the extra stress of family members and hanger ons.
He didn't say that, "friends" said that.
If things were so overbearing/negative in DC then his mom wouldn't continue to live here, and yet she's very involved with the community. And he's been in the league for almost 10 years now--friends and family have likely already been hitting him up for years now for money.
By reilo Go To PostIf Durant liked DC that much, he'd live there in the off-season, but he doesn't.
He's got love for the city, but most NBA players speed off to Florida/Cali in the off-season...as they should.
Nobody knows what the fuck he's going to do. It's almost completely dependent on how the season turns out. If he gets wtf swept by GS, does he have the personality where he'll want to join them right after watching them celebrate? Will he want to give it yet another go in OKC? Nobody knows shit.
I actually think if he gets eliminated by the Spurs then he's got a stronger chance of going to GS. If he actually has a series with GS...I'd actually be surprised if he joins them because you know the Warriors are going to be dancing all over the place and cheap shotting and shit talking and I could see Durant wanting to do anything to beat them.
I actually think if he gets eliminated by the Spurs then he's got a stronger chance of going to GS. If he actually has a series with GS...I'd actually be surprised if he joins them because you know the Warriors are going to be dancing all over the place and cheap shotting and shit talking and I could see Durant wanting to do anything to beat them.
Why would he live here in the off season? Every single NBA player I can think of spends their summer vacationing or at their houses in LA or Miami lol
He does spend a lot of time in the area during down time...
He does spend a lot of time in the area during down time...
Every single one? Nah some go back to their home towns and chill. Least that's what I've seen of the Blazers.
What I've gleaned from Thib's first couple interviews is that his guys are Towns, Wiggins and Rubio and he's not really married to anybody else on the roster. (Which is frankly how I assume outsiders view the roster: three good players and sometimes Zach shoots well.) I'll be really curious to see if he's keeping the lottery pick, too, since he keeps calling it an asset.
By Rob Go To Postwhat about Pek?He was Rose'd before Thibs even got there.
By Rob Go To Postwhat about Pek?I'm assuming he never plays again? He had Achilles surgery last summer, tried to come back mid-season and was shelved again after only a couple weeks. He probably retires and they stretch waive his contract. Which is really a shame, I love the guy.
If Cs can make the the second round, we might have a chance to nab KD...Other than that we have no hope
This offseason I want Smart to either improve or ship him out. Honestly dude needs to lose weight. Got not quickness at all.
This offseason I want Smart to either improve or ship him out. Honestly dude needs to lose weight. Got not quickness at all.
By rodeoclown Go To PostWhat I've gleaned from Thib's first couple interviews is that his guys are Towns, Wiggins and Rubio and he's not really married to anybody else on the roster. (Which is frankly how I assume outsiders view the roster: three good players and sometimes Zach shoots well.) I'll be really curious to see if he's keeping the lottery pick, too, since he keeps calling it an asset.What do you think Lavines trade value is?
A part of me says Thibs should just wait until the season is underway to see what he has based on his coaching..... Then I remember Layden is there and I expect a few shit trades being sold to the fans as crafty maneuvers before the season starts.
Possible leak of new Kings logo
http://news.sportslogos.net/2016/04/23/new-sacramento-kings-logo-leaked/
Not a fan of the font, but love this part:
http://news.sportslogos.net/2016/04/23/new-sacramento-kings-logo-leaked/
Not a fan of the font, but love this part:
By masud Go To PostWhat do you think Lavines trade value is?Probably not great, but he should be kept. Not that I'm all about the guy, but he's a 40% shooter from 3 on a team that as currently built can't hit anything from distance. He has value to the Wolves as a great guy to play off Rubio.
By xnipx Go To PostWhy would he live here in the off season? Every single NBA player I can think of spends their summer vacationing or at their houses in LA or Miami lolit's mostly for tax purposes in Florida
He does spend a lot of time in the area during down time…
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