Abbott convinced me Kobe wasn't clutch?
I'm pretty sure my eyes and math skills did that.
"The people who give the most credence to the analytics movement are people who have been convinced that those two [Phil and Kobe] are overrated - the True Hoop community knows it's audience."
Most game winners in history. 5 Chips.
Kobe was getting "most clutch player" in GM and player survey year after year for the better part of the decade. Abbott had as much to do with arguing that clutch is defined as FG% in final (insert time frame here) as anyone has. And before him, no one was making that argument nearly as consistently. Abbott only picked that issue and that player because he knew how easy it would be to gain support among a large base that already didn't like him / thought he was overrated.
He's a nobody with no instant credibility. To break through and become a voice you need to establish credibility. For Woj it's his reliability and sources. for Hollinger it's PER and his Power Rankings. For Abbott it was his major two issues 1. Kobe's not clutch 2. playing time should be lowered to help avoid injuries.
More broadly though, Abbott is in a battle between NBA coaches/players etc. for who you should listen to on basketball. The actual NBA legends/icons or math crunchers with no experience.
We listen to Bill because he's a great writer and very knowledgeable about the history of sports.
We listen to Woj because he's got great sources and delivers breaking news.
We listen to Lowe because he combines stats with actual x's and o's in an intelligent and captivating way.
We listen to NBA people because they have instant credibility.
Why do we listen to Abbott? He's not a great writer, he doesn't have sources, his knowledge of the x's and o's have never been displayed. He became famous because of one argument. Kobe's overrated/not clutch.
looollll
what's funny?
Your entire "I am the smartest person in the room" attitude, while constantly missing the obvious.
Karl Malone is the best free throw shooter in history. By far.
Lol wow. You're confusing what you think with what the popular opinion has been. We've ALWAYS thought that great FT shooter meant great %. That narrative has never changed.
But for decades clutch meant - have you done it, have you won chips, are you unstoppable one on one, can you get a good shot off, are you fearless, have you made game winners, etc. Clutch wasn't about just %, it was about psyche, and skill level, and accomplishment.
Abbott was a leader in re-contextualizing the debate and the parameters. The fact that you agree with him doesn't change my point. Abbott made a name for himself by re-defining that debate, and he picked THAT debate because winning it in the public mind would give him credibility.
He's not the guy who invented a new stat that everyone uses, or the guy who wrote the book on basketball (literally), or the guy who discovered the value of the corner 3, etc...he's the guy that was arguing that clutch was just raw production efficiency. When Lebron was quitting on his team, and disappearing in the Mavs Finals...people were saying things like "see, you do need a diverse offensive game. see you do need heart, see, you do need to be fearless, etc etc."
So the idea that everyone in the history of basketball has defined clutch the way we define good FT shooting is lulz.
looollll
what's funny?
Your entire "I am the smartest person in the room" attitude, while constantly missing the obvious.
Abbott did more or less what I said they would do days ago. I re-iterated and expounded on my point when you posted the article.
Instead of just concluding durr durr Vag is defending Kobe you could conclude..."wow, unnamed sources about an hit job story that happened 2 years ago just three days after Kobe calls you stupid...predictable much"?
Except, as I said, you're his core audience of people that a) don't like Kobe and b) think he's overrated...and he knows his audience which is why you jumped on the story with glee.
I never saw that Sacramento draft room footage until today's Grantland preview. It's ... incredible.
Wait, so he corrected how "clutch" was seen?
Sounds like a pretty good accomplishment to me.
He argues a lot of things consistently. That was definitely one of them. There are no 2 people more symbolic of the anti-Abbott argument than Kobe and Phil. So he has to tear those guys down to gain credibility - the same way that Nate Silver had to tear 40 year political experts down to gain credibility.
And no, I don't think he corrected it. Most basketball people wouldn't think he corrected it. But a subset of the population do, and you fall into that category.
If I ask you if Reggie was clutch, or West was clutch or Isiah Thomas was clutch, or Larry Bird was clutch, or Hakeem was clutch. Are you going to answer yes, or say "hold on, let me look at the shooting data in the final 30 seconds"
yeah kobe goofed but even with Dwight it was going to be a short window anyway
Recruiting era isn't even that old--LeBron was failing at it year after year until NWO
Recruiting era isn't even that old--LeBron was failing at it year after year until NWO
Vag, do you have any arguments that don't involve you taking the stance "this write is completely biased and is just arguing from a point of subjectivity"? You ever think that sometimes people frame their arguments based on actual evidence rather than some hate-driven agenda?
I never saw that Sacramento draft room footage until today's Grantland preview. It's … incredible.You talking about the footage where they look like they don't know what the hell they are doing?
Vag, do you have any arguments that don't involve you taking the stance "this write is completely biased and is just arguing from a point of subjectivity"? You ever think that sometimes people frame their arguments based on actual evidence rather than some hate-driven agenda?
I don't think it's hate driven. I've pointed that out. His followers think inefficient scorers like Kobe are overrated, he's never losing followers by bashing Kobe. They'll eat any attack piece he takes up with glee. Woj used to do the same with Lebron. I don't think it's personal...although this may have been because he was just called an idiot like 3 days ago and it's unusually scathing and about something that happened years ago.
Has all the makings of "fucking Kobe is an asshole, I'm going to print this story I've been sitting on for years" feel to it.
And yes, LOTS of writers write objectively. Abbott pushes narratives to gain credibility. Beat writers are objective, sports reporters are objective. Abbott is neither, he's angling to be a pundit, and his competitors are the other class of pundits and that whole way of thinking (actual NBA people - GM's, coaches, players)
A "no" would've sufficed.
Really, because I said the opposite of no. It does explain you pretty well though. This kind of alternate reality version of me you're fixated on.
Yea, eloquent argument you made...
:roll:
He's a clown that's only respected by people who don't understand basketball and dislike Kobe.
:roll:
Yes! The owner is in the room doing the talking and basically says, we're taking Stauskas. Then the GM is like, yeah, alright, Stauskas. Then the owner calls Stauskas and, oh my god, it's all so awkward and embarrassing and amazing.I never saw that Sacramento draft room footage until today's Grantland preview. It's … incredible.You talking about the footage where they look like they don't know what the hell they are doing?
A lot of the stuff in Abbott's article is flat out wrong.
Paul George didn't come to LA because of Kobe? That one makes so little sense it is laughable. No single rookie has ever turned down a max extension nor ever will, especially the Rose rule extension. PG didn't even contemplate changing teams at any point for any reason.
The Ramon Sessions bit is complete revisionist history through and through.
I don't know why people believe ESPN National ever has a Lakers source. They're literally always wrong and have never broken a trade/scoop in recent memory (unless it is Marc Stein) related to the Lakers because they have zero sources (meanwhile, the local media has them). I reiterate this every single season. Bucher lost his job because he though he had a Laker source.
And the notion that the Lakers are bad now because of Kobe is also absurd. The Lakers are bad for numerous reasons, mostly related to the fact that a top-heavy team failed to find/acquire young talent to keep them going as the older players declines and league rules changed and made it harder for them to sustain it. The CP3 trade really set them back. It is what it is but nothing Kobe did prevented the team from being good now. Even his huge contract didn't do that.
I know Reilo is going to claim "KOBE-STAN KOBE-STAN" and honestly I don't care. Abbott has written a disproportionate amount of article knocking Kobe. I'm 100% certain it is related to the fact that nobody really reads his stuff unless it's an article about Kobe. It's all about hits and we're all fools for reading it.
Paul George didn't come to LA because of Kobe? That one makes so little sense it is laughable. No single rookie has ever turned down a max extension nor ever will, especially the Rose rule extension. PG didn't even contemplate changing teams at any point for any reason.
The Ramon Sessions bit is complete revisionist history through and through.
I don't know why people believe ESPN National ever has a Lakers source. They're literally always wrong and have never broken a trade/scoop in recent memory (unless it is Marc Stein) related to the Lakers because they have zero sources (meanwhile, the local media has them). I reiterate this every single season. Bucher lost his job because he though he had a Laker source.
And the notion that the Lakers are bad now because of Kobe is also absurd. The Lakers are bad for numerous reasons, mostly related to the fact that a top-heavy team failed to find/acquire young talent to keep them going as the older players declines and league rules changed and made it harder for them to sustain it. The CP3 trade really set them back. It is what it is but nothing Kobe did prevented the team from being good now. Even his huge contract didn't do that.
I know Reilo is going to claim "KOBE-STAN KOBE-STAN" and honestly I don't care. Abbott has written a disproportionate amount of article knocking Kobe. I'm 100% certain it is related to the fact that nobody really reads his stuff unless it's an article about Kobe. It's all about hits and we're all fools for reading it.
God t he cavs broadcasting crew is awful. Auston carr just called kyrie the bes5 point in the league.
Ka/sha/le-boom>>>>>>>>>>deep in the quuueeeeeeeee
Or maybe they both suck.
Ka/sha/le-boom>>>>>>>>>>deep in the quuueeeeeeeee
Or maybe they both suck.
God t he cavs broadcasting crew is awful. Auston carr just called kyrie the bes5 point in the league.I thought you guys hated Stacey King and Neil Funk more?
Nice to see Travis Wear get burn. Roster battle between him and Outlaw.
EDIT: THardJr. why your D still bad...
EDIT: THardJr. why your D still bad...
This is some old school Rose shit: https://vine.co/v/ObTlQqZp0mz
(LOL at Lebron bitching about a travel he gets away with every game)
(LOL at Lebron bitching about a travel he gets away with every game)
Nice to see Travis Wear get burn. Roster battle between him and Outlaw.Defense looks terrible in general, we are in for many many loses.
EDIT: THardJr. why your D still bad…
As the Lakers' contingent settled into the conference room's ergonomic chairs, it was clear that two-time MVP point guard Steve Nash, in a nice crisp shirt, listening attentively, was running Kupchak's game plan. But Bryant showed up, according to a person in the room, in "hoops shorts, a T-shirt and a gold chain." He had also packed an attitude.
LOL this is amazing.
Abbott is going to get destroyed. PG already tweeted that story was ridiculous. Lakers organization will too, so will others.
This was the pettiest most unprofessional thing anyone wrote in a long time. No one gives a shit bout Abbott so no one will protect him.
Also, how did he know what Kobe was wearing? Was his source in the meeting? I doubt Kupchak or Nash are going to Abbott to tear Kobe.
This was the pettiest most unprofessional thing anyone wrote in a long time. No one gives a shit bout Abbott so no one will protect him.
Also, how did he know what Kobe was wearing? Was his source in the meeting? I doubt Kupchak or Nash are going to Abbott to tear Kobe.
Man Knicks are moving the ball great. Quick passes, unselfish play. They're missing easy shots but I love how the flow is.
20 assists on 28 makes.
20 assists on 28 makes.
Man Knicks are moving the ball great. Quick passes, unselfish play. They're missing easy shots but I love how the flow is.Melo assist is up too. Defense is the main issue.
20 assists on 28 makes.
This is some old school Rose shit: https://vine.co/v/ObTlQqZp0mzpot calling the kettle black but to be fair he took about 18 steps there
(LOL at Lebron bitching about a travel he gets away with every game)
This is some old school Rose shit: https://vine.co/v/ObTlQqZp0mzfunny thing is that lebron is so alien to the travel that he doesn't even know the proper hand motion referrees use for a travel call.
(LOL at Lebron bitching about a travel he gets away with every game)
Kobe is a star of a different era. He is likable, or doesn't coddle to anyone. As much as i dislike him in some ways i respect it.
But that era is over and he never changed.
Kobe could have 7 rings right now, but he failed to get with the times.
But for decades clutch meant - have you done it, have you won chips, are you unstoppable one on one, can you get a good shot off, are you fearless, have you made game winners, etc. Clutch wasn't about just %, it was about psyche, and skill level, and accomplishment.That's not what clutch was about.
Clutch was about whether or not you'd actually make that shot. Not if you'd take it.
But for decades clutch meant - have you done it, have you won chips, are you unstoppable one on one, can you get a good shot off, are you fearless, have you made game winners, etc. Clutch wasn't about just %, it was about psyche, and skill level, and accomplishment.
lulz. did you grow up playing street ball in the rough streets of belair or something, because that's not what clutch means.