Re-hiring a coach that failed and alienated your best player while that guy is in a non-tradeable contract is the epitome of ideological hackery.
It would be nearly the equivalent of opining for Kurt Rambis to re-coach Minnesota while Kevin Love was still in the building with slightly better talent.
Also, D'Antoni was trash until he had a HOFer or two with one specific circumstance that is the polar opposite of how this team is built - even then he failed to deliver a chip. He was trash in NY and he was trash in his stops before Phx. Not to mention pissing everyone off in LA too.
Worst off all, calling for a coach to be hired amidst all of those circumstances while his polar opposite ideologically is the President of Basketball Ops. How much more of an ideological hack can you be?
Let's have HP re-hire Carly Fiorina, what else could go wrong?
It would be nearly the equivalent of opining for Kurt Rambis to re-coach Minnesota while Kevin Love was still in the building with slightly better talent.
Also, D'Antoni was trash until he had a HOFer or two with one specific circumstance that is the polar opposite of how this team is built - even then he failed to deliver a chip. He was trash in NY and he was trash in his stops before Phx. Not to mention pissing everyone off in LA too.
Worst off all, calling for a coach to be hired amidst all of those circumstances while his polar opposite ideologically is the President of Basketball Ops. How much more of an ideological hack can you be?
Let's have HP re-hire Carly Fiorina, what else could go wrong?
Ideology does not mean "coaching and strategical principles".
Also, D'Antoni's Phoenix years are held against him. I imagine all the criticism Jerry Sloan deserves then.
Also, D'Antoni's Phoenix years are held against him. I imagine all the criticism Jerry Sloan deserves then.
By Avon Randolph Barksdale Go To PostHow soon before Fish becomes Lakers head coach?They have to let Byron try and keep that top-3 protected pick first.
By romrei Go To PostGabyskra#StartGallowayFEB. 08, 2016 06:38 PMDon't backseat mod.
By romrei
Pirzongins am not better than bryan scalanrine most overrated rookie of all time
you must have had a thousand strokes by now. hope y'oure koay bd
blackace no ban in gabyskra? wtf
By DY_nasty Go To PostFish didn't deserve to get fired wtfHe didn't really deserve to be hired so it all worked out!
By Avon Randolph Barksdale Go To PostHow soon before Fish becomes Lakers head coach?foh
By DY_nasty Go To PostFish didn't deserve to get fired wtf
Probably not. The biggest problem is that the team regressed in their execution heavily. Both offensively and defensively. The schemes they employed that kept 3 point shooting down for 50% of the season fell apart.
Offensively they stopped beating fronts, getting back door actions, recognizing strengths and weaknesses. The amount of times I saw Sasha in the pinch post over the past week was maddening. He should NEVER be in that position. He has no post game whatsoever.
The team stopped recognizing how to get Williams lobs and cuts to the basket, they stopped getting Porzingis a plethora of open jumpers, or the ball when he had a matchup advantage down low. Low Post RoLo which was a success during their winning streaks completely disappeared the last couple of weeks. Most his points came from cleaning up the glass instead of getting great post position, entry passes, and easy 5 foot bunnies.
A team with Porzingis/Williams/Melo and an offense that has 5-8 built in lob plays was never able to get them open layups and dunks off those kinds of plays.
There was just this un-explainable regression of execution. It took them too long to adjust, sometimes a half or three quarters before they realized how to attack a particular team's defensive strategy.
Mostly, they just ran the offense without any purpose. They were going through the motions instead of seeking out their strengths and advantages.
By Gabyskra Go To PostIdeology does not mean "coaching and strategical principles".
Also, D'Antoni's Phoenix years are held against him. I imagine all the criticism Jerry Sloan deserves then.
Only by ideologues.
By DY_nasty Go To PostFish didn't deserve to get fired wtf
No, he didn't. But...
By blackace Go To PostHe didn't really deserve to be hired so it all worked out!There's that.
It was a silly hire in the first place. But if you're going to hire an inexperienced coach you gotta know he, along with your team, is a 4 year project at best.
It really puts NY in a fucking weird space in regards to coaches though.
By DY_nasty Go To PostThey regressed because they sucked to begin withBut Williams!
By giririsss Go To PostIt was a silly hire in the first place.
He didn't deserve to be top10 in salary either.
By giririsss Go To PostSpeaking of ideological hacks and forcing systemsNow do Kurt Rambis now do Kurt Rambis!
NY Coaching Careers
Mike D'Antoni 121 wins from 288 games, .420 with the Knicks first play off appearance in 7 seasons
Derek Fisher 40 Wins from 136 games, .294
By giririsss Go To PostNo, he didn't. But…NY seems like a cash grab for some coaches and the coaches who did care got ran out of town by Dolan... Phil also seems super hands on too so if you aren't running the triangle I could see that marriage failing quickly...
There's that.
It was a silly hire in the first place. But if you're going to hire an inexperienced coach you gotta know he, along with your team, is a 4 year project at best.
It really puts NY in a fucking weird space in regards to coaches though.
There were rumors about Fishers job not being safe even when the Knicks were still playing ok. And why are we talking about D'antoni? Don't he and Phil hate each other?
I don't get what people were talking about with the "he had no passion" "he lost the team" stuff either.
That team is misfits, the worst star to build around, and rookie that's basically TOO good for the situation.
That team is misfits, the worst star to build around, and rookie that's basically TOO good for the situation.
By Gabyskra Go To PostIdeology does not mean "coaching and strategical principles".
Also, D'Antoni's Phoenix years are held against him. I imagine all the criticism Jerry Sloan deserves then.
Jerry Sloan isn't being thrown around for every coaching job, including ones that he already failed at.
omg, i love this drama.
add this to the mix.
I always knew Jeannie would bring back phil
add this to the mix.
@TommyBeer
Stephen A Smith on SiriusXM: "I'm hearing Jim Buss is out. And Mitch Kupchak will likely follow. Jeanie is going to clean house…"
Tommy Beer @TommyBeer 7m7 minutes ago
Stephen A: "If (Jeanie Buss) does that, you know she's gonna bring Phil back. And I think Dolan will let him out of his deal to go to LA."
I always knew Jeannie would bring back phil
By DY_nasty Go To PostThey regressed because they sucked to begin with
Yea, cuz what's the point of understanding the actual execution when you can make blanket statements.
Nevermind. Players suck, teams suck, failz
By blackace Go To PostNY seems like a cash grab for some coaches and the coaches who did care got ran out of town by Dolan… Phil also seems super hands on too so if you aren't running the triangle I could see that marriage failing quickly…
Cash grab because there is ZERO stability in your tenure. I don't really know who they go after. Walton won't want into that shit pile. Thibs / Phil would clash badly. Karl looks like his time is done in the NBA. Maybe Blatt? It's interesting.
By masud Go To PostThere were rumors about Fishers job not being safe even when the Knicks were still playing ok. And why are we talking about D'antoni? Don't he and Phil hate each other?Doing it to troll basically. Mike D' back in NY would be magical. To see 3SP try and blame everything bad on Mike but everything mediocre on Phil would be a magical time.
Also means that the Suns can't hire him this off season :|
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostYea, cuz what's the point of understanding the actual execution when you can make blanket statements.No the players do suck but at the start of the year they used the system well...However most the roster isn't good
Nevermind. Players suck, teams suck, failz
By Kabro Go To Postomg, i love this drama.lol firing your brother tho
add this to the mix.
I always knew Jeannie would bring back phil
By blackace Go To Postlol firing your brother tho
If they're bad at their job and costing your family money.................
By blackace Go To PostNo the players do suck but at the start of the year they used the system well…However most the roster isn't good
They didn't use the system well early on. They played hard and stifled opponents 3 point shooting which kept them in games. They REALLY used the system well when they were beating Atlanta, Miami, competing against SA. That team was executing really really well. They were getting up on much better teams by double digits and controlling the entire game. They manhandled a bunch of teams that are top 5-8 in the league talent wise.
Then all of a sudden they just started playing like trash. You can't run the Triangle aimlessly, it's akin to running spot up 3 point shot plays for Tony Allen. By this point the team should have been disciplined enough to always play to their strengths. Sasha at the pinch post while Porzingis is standing in the corner etc is a failure of coaching 50 games in to the season. You could count on one hand the amount of times they successfully executed the blind pig, or a lob play, or a back door off the two pass to the post in the last 2 weeks.
I was commenting on every single game that they're executing like ass and no longer getting all of the easy buckets the offense provides.
By blackace Go To Postnone of that is any different than what I said but ok.
I mistook "start of the year" for "start of the season". That's on me.
By Kabro Go To Postomg, i love this drama.
add this to the mix.
I always knew Jeannie would bring back phil
SAS is just playing with Lakers fans. He knows we're easy and frothing for good news lol.
I have been racking my brain trying to make sense of the whole Derek Fisher situation by checking out a few of my old NBA forums for news, stuff on Twitter, everything. Just purely on the press conference and the events of last season, this is the bare minimum:
- the organization and moreso Jackson did not like the whole Barnes/Fisher situation - Phil can say all he wants that it had "no bearing" on the situation but let's be real, it had to somewhat. Him going off on Rondo didn't help his persona either.
- Fisher started to tune out the Phil guys and listen more to the other assistants to the point of a "communication disconnect" - Haven't seen anything in papers the last few weeks about that, but when you're a second year coach I'm not sure you can tune anyone out... like it's something not many people talked about so I can't comment on if it started to become toxic between Fisher and Rambis/Cleamons. It's not like Fisher was installing a brand new O or something, so you wonder what that mess was about.
- His rotations/adaptability was poor - This is something every Knicks can talk about. His situational coaching at times has been very poor and rotations questionable at best at times. However you can't deny he has done a good job helping to get the team to this point. I'm reminded of what SVG talked about last week and what I posted last week: The Knicks are in a kinda similar situation to the 2015 Mets in that they had a improving team but had a glaring but fixable flaw and fans didn't trust owners to go out and spend money. Well Knicks had been only a few games out and have been in most every game, even through injuries. By firing Fisher the message is his coaching was something that was beginning to/had been hurting the team; are the slow starts the last week his fault? Bad rotation? Not starting Galloway and benching Calderon? Sitting certain players who were producing down the stretch? All of the above probably.
All in all, the biggest takeaways I get from this is a) by firing Fisher this team is saying they should be better, which means then there has to be a trade or lineup/philosophy move coming soon. This is not a scapegoat firing because no one was calling for Fisher's head. b) If there are certain conditions to Fisher coaching that he failed, unless the situation was unable to be resolved why was the man hired in the first place? By hook or by crook, this is an admission of failure by Phil Jackson. He felt the team isn't at the point they should be and trending downward, and the next coach he hires (not Rambis) better be a vet like JVG or Thibs.
- the organization and moreso Jackson did not like the whole Barnes/Fisher situation - Phil can say all he wants that it had "no bearing" on the situation but let's be real, it had to somewhat. Him going off on Rondo didn't help his persona either.
- Fisher started to tune out the Phil guys and listen more to the other assistants to the point of a "communication disconnect" - Haven't seen anything in papers the last few weeks about that, but when you're a second year coach I'm not sure you can tune anyone out... like it's something not many people talked about so I can't comment on if it started to become toxic between Fisher and Rambis/Cleamons. It's not like Fisher was installing a brand new O or something, so you wonder what that mess was about.
- His rotations/adaptability was poor - This is something every Knicks can talk about. His situational coaching at times has been very poor and rotations questionable at best at times. However you can't deny he has done a good job helping to get the team to this point. I'm reminded of what SVG talked about last week and what I posted last week: The Knicks are in a kinda similar situation to the 2015 Mets in that they had a improving team but had a glaring but fixable flaw and fans didn't trust owners to go out and spend money. Well Knicks had been only a few games out and have been in most every game, even through injuries. By firing Fisher the message is his coaching was something that was beginning to/had been hurting the team; are the slow starts the last week his fault? Bad rotation? Not starting Galloway and benching Calderon? Sitting certain players who were producing down the stretch? All of the above probably.
All in all, the biggest takeaways I get from this is a) by firing Fisher this team is saying they should be better, which means then there has to be a trade or lineup/philosophy move coming soon. This is not a scapegoat firing because no one was calling for Fisher's head. b) If there are certain conditions to Fisher coaching that he failed, unless the situation was unable to be resolved why was the man hired in the first place? By hook or by crook, this is an admission of failure by Phil Jackson. He felt the team isn't at the point they should be and trending downward, and the next coach he hires (not Rambis) better be a vet like JVG or Thibs.
By The Frankman Go To Postthere has to be a trade or lineup/philosophy move coming soon.How? Who's on the block? They don't have assets like the Magic does or Milwaukee... It's absolutely necessary they make moves, but I don't see what can happen.
He felt the team isn't at the point they should be and trending downward, and the next coach he hires (not Rambis) better be a vet like JVG or Thibs.Pretty clear it's going to be neither. Didn't he address Thibs already and said he wants to be close to the next coach? It's Walton in the best case, Shaw in the worst.
I don't think losing 9 of 10 while tangibly regressing in both offensive and defensive execution is something that can be glossed over. I was a fan of both Fish and Shaw for reasons, but when you lose the team either by being blown out over and over again or by a massive regression of execution, it's a problem.
Fish had one thing going for him, he coached the shit out of intangibles. Guys always played hard, and climbed back out of big deficits without quitting. But the execution thing was glaring to me. For a lot of people it may not have been because they're unfamiliar with the offensive keys, but it's not much different then repeatedly running plays for Tony Allen or Marcin Gortat to shoot threes.
I think Phil Fired Fish because the X's and O's were piss poor during this losing streak.
Also weird that Skiles still has a job, but the NBA coaching Carousal rarely makes any sense.
Fish had one thing going for him, he coached the shit out of intangibles. Guys always played hard, and climbed back out of big deficits without quitting. But the execution thing was glaring to me. For a lot of people it may not have been because they're unfamiliar with the offensive keys, but it's not much different then repeatedly running plays for Tony Allen or Marcin Gortat to shoot threes.
I think Phil Fired Fish because the X's and O's were piss poor during this losing streak.
Also weird that Skiles still has a job, but the NBA coaching Carousal rarely makes any sense.
Phil got Fish 25 million. Fish has got to feel happy at least on some level, it's not like he was denied a chance of chipping by being fired.
By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostPhil got Fish 25 million. Fish has got to feel happy at least on some level, it's not like he was denied a chance of chipping by being fired.that's a polite way of saying Phil threw his basically rookie coach under the bus...
It is what it is because it's the NBA and NY but let's not spin it into a charity case...
By blackace Go To Postif PJ brings Shaw in… wowbut phil jackson coaching tree though
By Kabro Go To Postbut phil jackson coaching tree thoughShaw is a sidekick for sure...
By blackace Go To Postthat's a polite way of saying Phil threw his basically rookie coach under the bus…
It is what it is because it's the NBA and NY but let's not spin it into a charity case…
I don't know about throwing him under the bus. The guy lost 9 of 10 and they were legitimately playing worse. I'm not saying it's a 100% certain he deserved to be fired, but under those circumstances, getting fired makes sense.
Again, if Wizards lost 9 of 10 and Gortat kept shooting 3's while they ran PnR exclusively with Porter and Nene people would be going "what the fuck"
The "what the fuck" execution mistakes of the Triangle are just less easy to spot. But while they were executing it beautifully a month ago, they've been executing it like trash for almost 3 weeks.
This while giving up routine 40-50% 3 point shooting games from their opponents. I'm a fan of his, and I think he can be an assistant and then get another shot somewhere a few years down the road, but the mistakes were glaring.
Looking at the roster, losing 9 out of 10 seems almost expected during any stretch of the season imo tbh frfr shrugshrug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADEUWaNGcfI
Fisher should have seen that and instantly realized, if he didn't through the first 40 games, that Porzingis in the Post on the strong side Triangle allows for that standard action play because he's so tall you can't really stop that pass as long as the corner cutter can get his shoulders ahead of the defender.
Nope, proceeded to never execute that again.
If they weren't legitimately executing worse across the board. That's my biggest problem. It's not the Barnes stuff, or his comments about Rondo, or his Rotations. You were hired as a guy that can teach these guys to improve their offensive execution, they just got worse.
Fisher wasn't even calling timeouts during last second game winning plays because, fuck, he had nothing to offer?
How is this a 180? I've always said that Coaches should be fired if its clear they've lost the team. This is tantamount to him losing the team, not from an effort standpoint, but from an execution one.
Again, if Porter/Nene were running 60 PnR's a game while John Wall was standing in the corner, Wittman would be fired too. It's just a glaring mistake.
Fisher should have seen that and instantly realized, if he didn't through the first 40 games, that Porzingis in the Post on the strong side Triangle allows for that standard action play because he's so tall you can't really stop that pass as long as the corner cutter can get his shoulders ahead of the defender.
Nope, proceeded to never execute that again.
By PSYCH! Go To PostLooking at the roster, losing 9 out of 10 seems almost expected during any stretch of the season imo tbh frfr shrugshrug
If they weren't legitimately executing worse across the board. That's my biggest problem. It's not the Barnes stuff, or his comments about Rondo, or his Rotations. You were hired as a guy that can teach these guys to improve their offensive execution, they just got worse.
Fisher wasn't even calling timeouts during last second game winning plays because, fuck, he had nothing to offer?
By blackace Go To Postthe 180
How is this a 180? I've always said that Coaches should be fired if its clear they've lost the team. This is tantamount to him losing the team, not from an effort standpoint, but from an execution one.
Again, if Porter/Nene were running 60 PnR's a game while John Wall was standing in the corner, Wittman would be fired too. It's just a glaring mistake.
By giririsss Go To PostIt was a silly hire in the first place. But if you're going to hire an inexperienced coach you gotta know he, along with your team, is a 4 year project at best.Assholes don't want projects, they want instant results. NBA ownership is basically NFL levels of fuckery.
It really puts NY in a fucking weird space in regards to coaches though.
because I clearly remember butting heads with you when I pointed out he wasn't that good of a coach yet... even winning his ingame coaching wasn't good yet.
Anyways if no Luke or Shaw...what does PJ do?
Stay with Kurt? Hire Blatt? Ewing? Zeke lol?
Anyways if no Luke or Shaw...what does PJ do?
Stay with Kurt? Hire Blatt? Ewing? Zeke lol?
Doesn't shoot corner 3s. Sam Mitchell in one sentence.
But they've actually been playing pretty solid ball of late. The talent is even overcoming the coaching sometimes! Wins cheer me up! I say this and they'll lose by 25 tonight.
But they've actually been playing pretty solid ball of late. The talent is even overcoming the coaching sometimes! Wins cheer me up! I say this and they'll lose by 25 tonight.