NBA Feb 2016 | Gone Fishin'

By Freedom = $1.05 Go To Postwell, he's 19. I think you give a guy at least a couple of years to develop before being able to make a call on him. That he already has a damn good defensive game means that he can focus on the offensive side more.

Not to say that he's going to be the next Kawhi Leonard but he's a year younger than him when he came into the league and his numbers are just a slight bit worse than Kawhi's when comparing their first seasons. Justice is just still a bit of a raw player.

Don't get me wrong, I like Justise and think he'll be good. But implying he could become Kawhi-lite is silly. If he becomes half as good as Kawhi Miami will be thrilled.

well i just brought up Kawhi for comparison's sake, to show that it's too soon to make a call on Winslow. And yeah, if he's half as good as KL then i'm more than fine with that.

Dream big, 3 year ago I won't dreaming Jimmy Butler can be as good as Danny Green

Now I see talent with tools with Winslow I can believe anything

anyway isn't Khawi himself made giant leap out of nowhere? PG-13 too, so yeah..

Kinda weird to start talking abot lowering expectation to prospect so can be as good or not with pointing to khawi

Is 3SP really in here talking about dur why was I given shot about the rockets?

You were given shit because despite your paragraphs and obvious bias towards Dwight, the squad was second in the west and a series away from the finals. Your L and avatar were much deserved.

What's interesting is despite the present and future Ls Morey about to take, he's still leagues above the clownshow that's running the Lakers.

Melo is 21, 8 & 4
Batum is 14, 6 & 6

Like I said I like batum a lot but 125 mil contract (at least) for his stats is fiscally irresponsible. If you feel Melo is a bad deal Batum is worse. I hope he signs for 18 for whoever gets him.

Isn't Melo like 32 year old?

Batum is 27

By fertygo Go To PostIsn't Melo like 32 year old?

Batum is 27

Melo is 31
Yeah but at the end of contracts Melo will be 34/35 Batum would be 32/33.

If he opts out like he has his whole career Melo will be 33/34 at the end of the contract

By giririsss Go To PostIt's a toss up. I like batum, but max batum? Tough pill to swallow. But Charlotte are going to have to meet the salary floor somehow. And you'll at least get his really good years in the next contract.

AFAIK, there is no actual penalty if you miss the salary floor. You just have to pay the difference out to the players that are on the roster.

By fertygo Go To PostDream big, 3 year ago I won't dreaming Jimmy Butler can be as good as Danny Green

Now I see talent with tools with Winslow I can believe anything

anyway isn't Khawi himself made giant leap out of nowhere? PG-13 too, so yeah..

Kinda weird to start talking abot lowering expectation to prospect so can be as good or not with pointing to khawi

I don't remember about Paul George, but Khawi was a steady improvement each year. His rookie year was during the lockout, iirc, and he spent the extra off-season time working on the form that the Spurs shooting coach taught him. His shooting right away was much better than people expected. Every off-season he just kept adding to his game and the team rewarded him with more and more responsibility.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Nets.htm

nothing's happening smh

nothing really happened till like the last couple of hours of last years deadline either

then everything happened at once

By DY_nasty Go To PostIndividual stats, meh. Melo mastered the art of getting his back in college. You look at our offense last year then look at it this year, all of our top 10 lineups last year compared to those with Batum inserted now? Its the most dramatic change in the league behind Mark Jackson Warriors -> Kerr Warriors.

Hell, the guy makes Kemba Walker look efficient. Gotta pay him.

Batum's D has actually been average at best this year, but I kinda forgive him since he's been playing on one leg.

Knicks haven't won a game without Melo this year. They were a dumpster fire even before the tear down last year because he was either DNP or playing on one knee.

I agree with your "the team is so much better with Batum" statements, but that applies more to Melo.

By Smokey Go To PostIs 3SP really in here talking about dur why was I given shot about the rockets?

You were given shit because despite your paragraphs and obvious bias towards Dwight, the squad was second in the west and a series away from the finals. Your L and avatar were much deserved.

What's interesting is despite the present and future Ls Morey about to take, he's still leagues above the clownshow that's running the Lakers.

Lmao comparing Morey to the lakers FO is your argument?

No, it wasn't. I was right about the methodology, the quick trigger trade shit, and the fact that getting to the CF was a massive massive outlier sandwiched between a Bunch of first round exits and trash this year. It's a badly constructed team with one flukey and unsustainable run. I was right about everything as a whole, you guys just had a lightning in a bottle run for a single season.

As I said earlier this year, I was right - just 6 months early when it didn't seem like I was.

By Freedom = $1.05 Go To Postnothing really happened till like the last couple of hours of last years deadline either

then everything happened at once

Last season Dragic held up everybody when he wanted to escape the shitshow that was the Suns. Nobody wants any part of Morey's mess, so what's the hold up? Is everybody waiting for the Rockets to get Spencer Hawes?

By chandlerparsons Go To PostLast season Dragic held up everybody when he wanted to escape the shitshow that was the Suns. Nobody wants any part of Morey's mess, so what's the hold up? Is everybody waiting for the Rockets to get Spencer Hawes?

just seems that everyone is calling bluffs and holding out since Morey has no hand in the negotiations. So people are just waiting for him to break

By chandlerparsons Go To PostLast season Dragic held up everybody when he wanted to escape the shitshow that was the Suns. Nobody wants any part of Morey's mess, so what's the hold up? Is everybody waiting for the Rockets to get Spencer Hawes?

Everyone is apparently waiting on the Hawks and their potential Horford/Teague moves.

By Freedom = $1.05 Go To Postwell i just brought up Kawhi for comparison's sake, to show that it's too soon to make a call on Winslow. And yeah, if he's half as good as KL then i'm more than fine with that.

THe kind of improvement he made on his jumper is practically unheard of. Hard of count on that for anybody.

By Kibner Go To PostEveryone is apparently waiting on the Hawks and their potential Horford/Teague moves.

Oh right. Maybe the people who miss out on them will have to make do with Dwight/Lawson, lol.

Queen City Hoops Managing Editor Spencer Percy who's had the pulse on the CLT D12 talks:

#Hornets-D12 not dead, but as I said earlier in week, it will be a last second deal if it happens as HOU comes to terms w/ weak D12 market.

I think Cho is the craftiest GM that HOU is dealing w/ in trade talks, so CLT has good chance to get in a last sec.

Ultimately for #Hornets it's whether or not D12=rental. Need D12 word to re-sign, Clifford must convince FO this will work / be worth payday

The main point is that many people, including all rocket fans, thought this roster + style of play was poised to make you guys contenders for years and years to come. I called bullshit. My specific statement was that Morey made 2 times more trades than anyone to assemble a perennially first and second round exit team. Then one flukey season/playoff run happened where everything broke right. Clippers collapse, KD injured, SA worn down from two finals appearances, avoided Memphis, and GS till the CF.

Still unsustainable as fuck.

Maybe there is a blockbuster trade we haven't heard about.

I realize the magic aren't very popular but some of the responses from detroit fans re harris are embarrassing

"he's a playmaking 4 who'll shore up the defense", "we got our draymond green!"

By Red Blaster Go To PostI realize the magic aren't very popular but some of the responses from detroit fans re harris are embarrassing

"he's a playmaking 4 who'll shore up the defense", "we got our draymond green!"

Hahahaha.

I mean, I don't really follow the Magic much, but even I know he is awful at defense and only makes plays for himself. He should be a good bailout option for when a Jackson P&R fails and time is running out, though.

rockets seemed a lock as a 2nd tier team in the west...well third tier now that GS has clearly carved out a tier of their own

they shouldn't have flamed out this badly--obviously other issues at play were the cause

https://twitter.com/ScottDKushner/status/700348509430616068

Scott Kushner @ScottDKushner
Many of the #Pelicans players and staff (RA included) are flying to OKC for Ingrid Williams' funeral



<3

assemble a perennially first and second round exit team. Then one flukey season/playoff run

lol

By chandlerparsons Go To PostLast season Dragic held up everybody when he wanted to escape the shitshow that was the Suns. Nobody wants any part of Morey's mess, so what's the hold up? Is everybody waiting for the Rockets to get Spencer Hawes?

Hawks and Celts I'm guessing

someone please beat the ty lawson offer

at least i dont have to worry about some insanely stupid Favors trade rumors again

I don't know that it's style of play that is the Rockets problem (they've had multiple 50 win seasons, let's not say it's Kurt Rambis in Minnesota) as much as it is ignoring the locker room aspect of roster construction.

And even if the Rockets don't win a title under the direction of Morey, I don't think you can call his tenure a failure, not when they've had some really good seasons and everybody shoots a ton of 3s now.

Winslow gonna be a gawd. Just wait.

By Dark PhaZe Go To Postrockets seemed a lock as a 2nd tier team in the west…well third tier now that GS has clearly carved out a tier of their own

they shouldn't have flamed out this badly–obviously other issues at play were the cause

See, and that's where I disagreed. There's no way they were going to be better year in and year out than OKC, Clippers, SA and obviously GS - Which would make them at best a perennial 5-8th seed, and because their offense is predictable as all hell and lacks complexity in the half court, it would be easier to stop in the playoffs. Also, expecting Harden to keep playing solid defense - like he did last year - for years was a fairy tale.


Morey made twice as many trades as anyone else and signed two max guys all to build a perennial non-contender. As much as I have issues with his methodology, many of my criticisms were about the actual strength of the roster which was being overhyped as something it wasn't.

By rodeoclown Go To PostI don't know that it's style of play that is the Rockets problem (they've had multiple 50 win seasons, let's not say it's Kurt Rambis in Minnesota) as much as it is ignoring the locker room aspect of roster construction.

And even if the Rockets don't win a title under the direction of Morey, I don't think you can call his tenure a failure, not when they've had some really good seasons and everybody shoots a ton of 3s now.

Never should of fired his scapegoat coach

Woj says Atlanta has told teams it plans to stand pat, keeping Horford and its guards.

Woj says Rockets/Jazz talks for Lawson are off, both teams moved on, and Rockets aren't buying out Lawson either.

By 3SidedPolygons Go To PostSee, and that's where I disagreed. There's no way they were going to be better year in and year out than OKC, Clippers, SA and obviously GS - Which would make them at best a perennial 5-8th seed

I don't know that anyone thought they'd be better than that tier of teams, particularly SA--just that they'd be around that tier of Western Conference teams that could be a tough out. I mean being top 6 good in the West meant you were good a year ago when the Grizz and Blazers were still capable of a good fight. Don't think anyone guaranteed they'd be WCF year in and year out or anything.

By rodeoclown Go To PostI don't know that it's style of play that is the Rockets problem (they've had multiple 50 win seasons, let's not say it's Kurt Rambis in Minnesota) as much as it is ignoring the locker room aspect of roster construction.

And even if the Rockets don't win a title under the direction of Morey, I don't think you can call his tenure a failure, not when they've had some really good seasons and everybody shoots a ton of 3s now.

Personally, I consider consistent 50 win seasons a success. It means you are going to the playoffs every year, having home court advantage every now and then, and a chance to go deep if things break your way.

I don't subscribe to "championship or bust". I watch this for entertainment and so I want a consistently good team that brings me just a little bit of joy after games more often than not.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostNever should of fired his scapegoat coach

I don't think McHale is a good coach, so I don't really know that it matters all that much. He's not a great in-game tactician and the schemes he uses are fairly rudimentary. I watched that dude in interim stints with the Wolves twice and his biggest strength is obviously that he's a people person and connects with the players. In 2009, that was basically the thing, that he was likable and all the players wanted Randy Wittman to get hit by a truck.

By Dark PhaZe Go To PostI don't know that anyone thought they'd be better than that tier of teams, particularly SA–just that they'd be around that tier of Western Conference teams that could be a tough out. I mean being top 6 good in the West meant you were good a year ago when the Grizz and Blazers were still capable of a good fight. Don't think anyone guaranteed they'd be WCF year in and year out or anything.

There's a long gulf from where they are to perennial WCF though. besides which you weren't the one giving me shit lol. It was the guys that rolled their eyes at my "perennial first and second round fodder and overrated as fuck" statements. I just talked my most shit in the midst of their best, and clearly unsustainable, season.

By Kibner Go To PostPersonally, I consider consistent 50 win seasons a success. It means you are going to the playoffs every year, having home court advantage every now and then, and a chance to go deep if things break your way.

I don't subscribe to "championship or bust". I watch this for entertainment and so I want a consistently good team that brings me just a little bit of joy after games more often than not.

Unless you're one of the handful of teams lucky enough to have a transcendent player like LeBron or Durant, championship aspirations are just not realistic. The Wolves will probably never win a title (they likely won't get another shot like 2004 ever), but if Wiggins and Towns can get them to 50 wins and in the playoffs for a while, that's pretty good.

When people talk about the Nash Suns teams, there's this weird idea that they failed because they never got further than the WCF. I would say those five, six years were a raging success. Phoenix fans got some pretty damn amazing basketball, the team helped to modernize the game in some really important ways and was in the title conversation for a few years. That's not bad at all.

damn

this is shaping up to be a fucking snoozer now that the hawx have gone into "if we die, we die" mode

ernie over here surely begging ted to let him give up our future for a 30 game rental

By rodeoclown Go To PostUnless you're one of the handful of teams lucky enough to have a transcendent player like LeBron or Durant, championship aspirations are just not realistic. The Wolves will probably never win a title (they likely won't get another shot like 2004 ever), but if Wiggins and Towns can get them to 50 wins and in the playoffs for a while, that's pretty good.

When people talk about the Nash Suns teams, there's this weird idea that they failed because they never got further than the WCF. I would say those five, six years were a raging success. Phoenix fans got some pretty damn amazing basketball, the team helped to modernize the game in some really important ways and was in the title conversation for a few years. That's not bad at all.

Yeah, we on the same wavelength.

By Kibner Go To PostPersonally, I consider consistent 50 win seasons a success. It means you are going to the playoffs every year, having home court advantage every now and then, and a chance to go deep if things break your way.

I don't subscribe to "championship or bust". I watch this for entertainment and so I want a consistently good team that brings me just a little bit of joy after games more often than not.

Yeah this is what 3SP just glosses over. He speaks as if the Rockets are Twolves tier or something. The Rockets never tanked under Morey. They were middling but never outright tanked. Goes from Kevin Martin to harden. Chuck Hayes to Dwight. Now they are hitting a rough patch and 3SP beats his chest like he's the best. Either way his takes on the Rockets have clear bias. Shown up last year (lightning or not) and he'll never be able to let the Dwight situation go. I don't recall anybody saying the rockets would be top tier. That's just additional thinking that 3SP uses to fuel his "I was right, You were wrong!" charade.

Also the Lakers FO versus Morey wasn't an argument...it was simply statement. And a true one at that.

Hey, I don't condone the Timberwolves throwing away last year for a shot at Towns, even if it worked. As somebody that pays for this product, I hate the idea that you would ask people to come give you money for the right to see Zach LaVine play point guard for 40 minutes on a 17 win tank squad. I've always been strongly anti-tanking.

By Smokey Go To PostYeah this is what 3SP just glosses over. He speaks as if the Rockets are Twolves tier or something. The Rockets never tanked under Morey. They were middling but never outright tanked. Goes from Kevin Martin to harden. Chuck Hayes to Dwight. Now they are hitting a rough patch and 3SP beats his chest like he's the best. Either way his takes on the Rockets have clear bias. Shown up last year (lightning or not) and he'll never be able to let the Dwight situation go.

Also the Lakers FO versus Morey wasn't an argument…it was simply statement. And a true one at that.

That PHX team was infinitely better than this Rockets one in terms of accomplishments and sustained success. This is a broken team with a flawed roster - not flawed in that they can't beat prime Timmy over and over again, flawed in that ANY CF berth will be a fluke.

Phx never winning is only a thing in the context of people acting as if D'Antoni or that team were better then they were because of what they represented. Otherwise, that PHX team was a raging success.

Morey didn't execute this with two trades. He made twice as many as any other GM and ended up locked into a perennial non contender. And unlike Billy Bean, who can be forgiven for never winning, he wasn't hampered by financial constraints. He failed to get Bosh, failed to get Melo. But the willingness to spend whatever it takes has been there during his tenure.

Eliminate the mystique of Morey for 5 seconds. He hired some bad coaches, he made a ton of bad or lateral trades, and his best moves got him locked into 4-5 years of mostly first round fodder. That's not success.

And most of rockets age was collectively beating their chest last year and thinking after the WCF that this would be your new normal.

Nobody (not even Rockets fans) were calling Houston perennial contenders last season (not when most of us were stressed about Harden wilting under pressure and getting out of the first round). What was laughable was that shooting a lot of 3s led to a poor offense (and that Houston's problem was their offense but not their defense in their previous first round exit), that Morey was not influenced by Ainge (AT ALL), and that the likes of Brewer, Josh Smith, Prigioni and McDaniels were brought in for their 3-point shooting.

This championship or you're nothing line of thinking is bullshit, as well. Even if Morey burnt his wings getting too close to the sun with the Lawson trade, he deserves some credit for turning what should have been a lottery/treadmill team post-Yao/TMac, into one that made McHale the franchise's most winningest coach.

By rodeoclown Go To PostI don't think McHale is a good coach, so I don't really know that it matters all that much. He's not a great in-game tactician and the schemes he uses are fairly rudimentary. I watched that dude in interim stints with the Wolves twice and his biggest strength is obviously that he's a people person and connects with the players. In 2009, that was basically the thing, that he was likable and all the players wanted Randy Wittman to get hit by a truck.

Rockets fans lamented all that other stuff, but he had that going for him. I mean, he turned cancer Josh Smith into something playable last season. Don't know how Morey thought Bickerstaff could do a better job of handling the team, when McHale had lost them.

Yeah, Philly style tanking just fucking sucks. There are only 4-5 legitimate title contenders pretty much every year, but half the battle is putting together a team that can win 47-50 games and giving yourself a chance if things break right. It's why I'm not mad that the Hornets abandon the tank commander plan. They tried it out, nearly destroyed any love for the game in a historically basketball-crazed region, and ended up missing out on a generational player anyway.

I'd rather root on a team that might top out at 46-50 wins season after season and can bring some playoff excitement. At the end of the day, it's all about entertainment.

By Bowser Go To PostWoj says Rockets/Jazz talks for Lawson are off, both teams moved on, and Rockets aren't buying out Lawson either.

im ok with this

Championship or bust? You're first round fodder. Your team would b broken apart of anyone gave Morey a draft pick for Dwight. What the hell are we even talking about.

This isn't a team that made 3-4 CF and then didn't make a championship. I'm not here saying that Flip's tenure in Detroit was a failure.

literally every point you made about what I said were straw men. Piles and piles of straw men, Parsons.

Raps and Celts interested in Thad Young. Think Young for Lee's expiring and one of the Celts later 1sts (either their own or the Mavs pick) would be a good deal for both teams.

Lowe reports the Heat have traded Jarnell Stokes in a salary dump. Details coming.

By diehard Go To Postim ok with this

Probably had something to do with this:
"Lawson just posted "Utah (annoyed face emoji)" then deleted it" - reddit

ESPN sources say Rockets, if Ty Lawson trade talks with Utah were to collapse, would strongly consider waiving Lawson if they can't move him

Who are these ESPN sources?