Halo |OT| Just Dustin Echoes
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Fahz your reply to my post was spot on.
RIP in peace Iwata. Ya brought a hell of a lot of joy to people everywhere.
If you want to make the argument that technical limitations were what held back designs, look at the original concept art as that is the closest you'll get to the actual vision of what something was supposed to be. If you do that, I'm sure you will notice that the Grunts of 343 still do not fit the original vision of the Grunt. The most obvious examole being that Grunts didn't have #butts cheeks. The proportions of the head and neck are also noticeably different as the original Grunts neck did not look like an old man with a case of toad throat. You could also note one of the biggest deviations; IT'S GOT FRICKIN' FLESHY SKIN INSTEAD OF AN EXOSKELETON. Every Grunt has had an exoskeleton. You can see it in not only the texture of the skin, but the segmented appendages and limbs. 343's Grunts had lizard skin and some warts on their arms. Even the new iteration for Halo 5 has lizard skin on its head, neck, arms, and I believe its torso as well. Bungie's adjustments to the Grunts design were very minor and in fact were more in line with what the Grunt was supposed to look like. Bungie was refining the design with each iteration. However, there is only so far you cam go before ya camt really refine it any further. We pretty much hit that with Halo 3.
If 343 wants to expand the universe with new species and sub species, that's radical. Just make sure that you acknowledge that in the actual game by having these new ones fight alongside the old ones. Similar to the Skirmishers. That's how ya god damn do it.
If you like the new designs that is fine dude. Good on ya for enjoying it. However do NOT act as if people being upset by the changes is somehow shocking or unreasonable. It comes off as not only condescending, but dickish to act like people are weird for wanting an internal consistency in the universe. Or just simply wanting the original designs to be respected.
<3 and PC
Now does anyone actually want to play some Halo?
RIP in peace Iwata. Ya brought a hell of a lot of joy to people everywhere.
By Wesleyshark Go To PostI think sometimes it's forgotten that some of the original designs for things were due to working with or around technical limitations. Every Halo game that gets released adds more detail or refined design. This is how it should be. Something that looks and plays exactly the same as it did ten years ago... Where is the growth? The maturation? The depth? It would be very, very stale.Gonna start by saying I think you seem like a pretty cool guy amd I've got nothin against ya. But Wes, I could write a whole mega post on how wrong you are. And perhaps I will when I'm not on a phone. However right now I can say with complete confidence that this reasoning does not apply to this case in particular and is therefore bullshit.
If you want to make the argument that technical limitations were what held back designs, look at the original concept art as that is the closest you'll get to the actual vision of what something was supposed to be. If you do that, I'm sure you will notice that the Grunts of 343 still do not fit the original vision of the Grunt. The most obvious examole being that Grunts didn't have #butts cheeks. The proportions of the head and neck are also noticeably different as the original Grunts neck did not look like an old man with a case of toad throat. You could also note one of the biggest deviations; IT'S GOT FRICKIN' FLESHY SKIN INSTEAD OF AN EXOSKELETON. Every Grunt has had an exoskeleton. You can see it in not only the texture of the skin, but the segmented appendages and limbs. 343's Grunts had lizard skin and some warts on their arms. Even the new iteration for Halo 5 has lizard skin on its head, neck, arms, and I believe its torso as well. Bungie's adjustments to the Grunts design were very minor and in fact were more in line with what the Grunt was supposed to look like. Bungie was refining the design with each iteration. However, there is only so far you cam go before ya camt really refine it any further. We pretty much hit that with Halo 3.
If 343 wants to expand the universe with new species and sub species, that's radical. Just make sure that you acknowledge that in the actual game by having these new ones fight alongside the old ones. Similar to the Skirmishers. That's how ya god damn do it.
If you like the new designs that is fine dude. Good on ya for enjoying it. However do NOT act as if people being upset by the changes is somehow shocking or unreasonable. It comes off as not only condescending, but dickish to act like people are weird for wanting an internal consistency in the universe. Or just simply wanting the original designs to be respected.
<3 and PC
Now does anyone actually want to play some Halo?
By -Ryn Go To PostYou could also note one of the biggest deviations; IT'S GOT FRICKIN' FLESHY SKIN INSTEAD OF AN EXOSKELETON. Every Grunt has had an exoskeleton.This isn't true. Bungie's initial intent was for the Grunts to have tough alligator skin (which they did in Halo CE & 2), but then you get to Halo 3, and bam. Exoskeleton for no reason.
https://twitter.com/Dr_Abominable/status/466228635318243328
By -Ryn Go To PostHowever do NOT act as if people being upset by the changes is somehow shocking or unreasonable. It comes off as not only condescending, but dickish to act like people are weird for wanting an internal consistency in the universe. Or just simply wanting the original designs to be respected.
I'm not saying any of that at all. What I'm referring to is how obnoxious people are being over it to the point where they are accusing the developer of purposely changing things just to piss off fans or "changing for the sake of change" or having no right to express their own artistic view on the Haloverse without getting a twenty point bulletin about their justification for doing so.
The grunts look like hyper detailed halo CE grunts, save for their gas mask modules being routed through their nostrils instead of over their entire face. The Covenant vehicles are merely an iteration and an evolution of what has always been a weird mix of insecticile and alien architecture. Instead of bulbous, plain blobs that shoot plasma, they are becoming intricately detailed bulbous forms with sleek contours all at the same time. The new Wraith is gorgeous... Yet still looks like a Wraith, etc..
By Lord of Admirals Go To PostThis isn't true. Bungie's initial intent was for the Grunts to have tough alligator skin (which they did in Halo CE & 2), but then you get to Halo 3, and bam. Exoskeleton for no reason.
https://twitter.com/Dr_Abominable/status/466228635318243328
The H5 grunts are blueish/purplish again, even haha.
By Wesleyshark Go To PostI'm not saying any of that at all. What I'm referring to is how obnoxious people are being over it to the point where they are accusing the developer of purposely changing things just to piss off fans or "changing for the sake of change" or having no right to express their own artistic view on the Haloverse without getting a twenty point bulletin about their justification for doing so.My apologies for misunderstanding your stance then.
The grunts look like hyper detailed halo CE grunts, save for their gas mask modules being routed through their nostrils instead of over their entire face. The Covenant vehicles are merely an iteration and an evolution of what has always been a weird mix of insecticile and alien architecture. Instead of bulbous, plain blobs that shoot plasma, they are becoming intricately detailed bulbous forms with sleek contours all at the same time. The new Wraith is gorgeous... Yet still looks like a Wraith, etc..
I still disagree with ya about the Grunts as I don't think they look much like the original Grunts at all aside from their color.
I don't think I've seen anyone accuse 343 of changing things just to piss the community off though. Change for the sake of change is certainly a common accusation, but as I said earlier, I don't think the intent behind that phrase is meant as a malicious accusation.
By Lord of Admirals Go To PostThis isn't true. Bungie's initial intent was for the Grunts to have tough alligator skin (which they did in Halo CE & 2), but then you get to Halo 3, and bam. Exoskeleton for no reason.Welp let it never be said that I can't admit when I'm wrong.
https://twitter.com/Dr_Abominable/status/466228635318243328
While I stand by my previous arguments (aside from what they were originally intended to be), it is interesting to learn about what they originally were planned to be like. I'm happy they decided to go with an actual exoskeleton. However it would be interesting to see what the Grunts would've looked like had they stuck with the tough skin.
edit: GEEZUS I hate typing on a phone. Kills my sentences and grammar (well the lack of sleep is more likely what's affecting the latter).
By -Ryn Go To Postedit: GEEZUS I hate typing on a phone. Kills my sentences and grammar (well the lack of sleep is more likely what's affecting the latter).Must be in the air. I've had to edit a bunch of posts today from a myriad of spelling and grammatical errors haha. Typing Le Dumb.
By -Ryn Go To PostWelp let it never be said that I can't admit when I'm wrong.Technically all the grunts we've seen so far are canonical. (Same goes for every other species really). So in reality, they don't have an exoskeleton. Just armored skin. You can see though that 343i's Halo 4 Grunt was a clear throwback to the original alligator-esque design with saggy reptillian skin, and toughened scaly-skin.
While I stand by my previous arguments (aside from what they were originally intended to be), it is interesting to learn about what they originally were planned to be like. I'm happy they decided to go with an actual exoskeleton. However it would be interesting to see what the Grunts would've looked like had they stuck with the tough skin.
The lash out against 343i's initial design of the Grunt has made it very clear though that a significant portion of the fan base prefers the Grunts to be more on the arthropod side of appearances. 343i adjusted accordingly, and now we're back at Crab grunts. Not too much of a bad thing. Plus they even went back to the Halo CE blue-purple coloring which is great!