By derpface123 Go To PostOh no, one control scheme is messed up in a build that's months old. I'm sure if it's that bad, they will have fixed it in the final game.
I have used the default control scheme in every Halo game and it works fine for me. People blow the disadvantage of having jump set to A way out of proportion. Assuming you aren't 70 years old, you should be able to quickly press the button and move your thumb back to the right analog fast enough for it to not matter. Plus in Halo 5, having the thrusters set to B is way more cumbersome than LB, which is the default button for thrusters.
You might be trolling but "just deal with it" isn't the answer. I'm sorry that you don't see it the way I do but I think it's a much bigger issue that affects a lot of people. Do me a favor, load up MCC, play a game in matchmaking, and I want you to jump in the air and take your left thumb and move it to the right thumb stick and try to kill someone, while holding "B". Try to shoot and hit them before you touch the ground.
I'm not saying it can't be done. It's just a very unnatural feeling that is easily fixed by a remap of Ground Pound.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh0osuwkO2s
Leaked Halo 5 trailer from movie theaters. Might get taken down soon so watch it while you can.
You should mention, HUGE SPOILERS AT THE END.
It maybe nothing, it may be something.
For those going dark.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh0osuwkO2sDat Halo theme
Leaked Halo 5 trailer from movie theaters. Might get taken down soon so watch it while you can.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh0osuwkO2s
Leaked Halo 5 trailer from movie theaters. Might get taken down soon so watch it while you can.
There's a shot in there that looks really similar to Chief's ground-punching / armor lock stance he took when the Librarian turned him into a Space Jedi. Also note Chief headbutting / gut-punching Locke.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh0osuwkO2s
Leaked Halo 5 trailer from movie theaters. Might get taken down soon so watch it while you can.
I'm REALLY tired of the whole "everything is not black and white" for plot devices. Everyone and their grandmother is doing moral/ethical ambiguity for plot these days. The only game that I have played recently that used it like a pro was The Last of Us. Most of the time it just ends up being an uninteresting story and a crutch for a weak plot. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it seems like everyone is doing it. Apparently a clear objective in good conscience isn't exciting anymore lol
By Cliq Go To PostYou might be trolling but "just deal with it" isn't the answer. I'm sorry that you don't see it the way I do but I think it's a much bigger issue that affects a lot of people. Do me a favor, load up MCC, play a game in matchmaking, and I want you to jump in the air and take your left thumb and move it to the right thumb stick and try to kill someone, while holding "B". Try to shoot and hit them before you touch the ground.
I'm not saying it can't be done. It's just a very unnatural feeling that is easily fixed by a remap of Ground Pound.
They have a team of pro players in their studio. Was this problem with the control scheme in the beta from January, or did you spot it in a Warzone video? Both builds are months old at this point and if it is as bad as you say, I would bet you five chocolate chip cookies that they remapped it for the final version.
I'm not saying it's not awkward to do what you describe, what I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with the default control scheme anyways. If 343 does eff up and the wonky alternate control scheme makes it into the final game, then perhaps you'll have to switch control schemes? It's easier to move your right thumb off the right analog for a quarter-second to press A than it is to claw the controller to make a ground pound happen with the alternate controls. To be honest I don't even see the ground pound being that useful, so it's hardly game-breaking for the people who like to use the alternate scheme.
By derpface123 Go To PostOh no, one control scheme is messed up in a build that's months old. I'm sure if it's that bad, they will have fixed it in the final game.Good for you. I find them all deficient.
I have used the default control scheme in every Halo game and it works fine for me. People blow the disadvantage of having jump set to A way out of proportion. Assuming you aren't 70 years old, you should be able to quickly press the button and move your thumb back to the right analog fast enough for it to not matter. Plus in Halo 5, having the thrusters set to B is way more cumbersome than LB, which is the default button for thrusters.
Also, you got a little something on your chin.
By derpface123 Go To PostThey have a team of pro players in their studio. Was this problem with the control scheme in the beta from January, or did you spot it in a Warzone video? Both builds are months old at this point and if it is as bad as you say, I would bet you five chocolate chip cookies that they remapped it for the final version.
I'm not saying it's not awkward to do what you describe, what I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with the default control scheme anyways. If 343 does eff up and the wonky alternate control scheme makes it into the final game, then perhaps you'll have to switch control schemes? It's easier to move your right thumb off the right analog for a quarter-second to press A than it is to claw the controller to make a ground pound happen with the alternate controls. To be honest I don't even see the ground pound being that useful, so it's hardly game-breaking for the people who like to use the alternate scheme.
Dude what the heck. Seriously. Be reasonable. It's perfectly fine for Cliq to point it out. If anything it's worth him pointing out just in case. You don't have to keep say its an old build--everyone knows. With the problems encountered in Halo 4 and MCC everyone is trying to help make this game perfect and fan feedback like Cliq's is invaluable--old build or not.
Then you go and say it's not even that useful? Did you see the way Cliq and some of us used it in the beta? He especially was a champ with it. Get out of here with that crap man.
By derpface123 Go To PostOh no, one control scheme is messed up in a build that's months old. I'm sure if it's that bad, they will have fixed it in the final game.Why you gotta post like this.
I have used the default control scheme in every Halo game and it works fine for me. People blow the disadvantage of having jump set to A way out of proportion. Assuming you aren't 70 years old, you should be able to quickly press the button and move your thumb back to the right analog fast enough for it to not matter. Plus in Halo 5, having the thrusters set to B is way more cumbersome than LB, which is the default button for thrusters.
By derpface123 Go To PostThey have a team of pro players in their studio. Was this problem with the control scheme in the beta from January, or did you spot it in a Warzone video? Both builds are months old at this point and if it is as bad as you say, I would bet you five chocolate chip cookies that they remapped it for the final version.
I'm not saying it's not awkward to do what you describe, what I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with the default control scheme anyways. If 343 does eff up and the wonky alternate control scheme makes it into the final game, then perhaps you'll have to switch control schemes? It's easier to move your right thumb off the right analog for a quarter-second to press A than it is to claw the controller to make a ground pound happen with the alternate controls. To be honest I don't even see the ground pound being that useful, so it's hardly game-breaking for the people who like to use the alternate scheme.
Ground Pound was mapped to Left Thumbstick in the December Beta. I have a video of me from that beta doing Ground Pounds, it is very useful. See link below for said video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1-evPj-tHY
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostDude what the heck. Seriously. Be reasonable. It's perfectly fine for Cliq to point it out. If anything it's worth him pointing out just in case. You don't have to keep say its an old build–everyone knows. With the problems encountered in Halo 4 and MCC everyone is trying to help make this game perfect and fan feedback like Cliq's is invaluable–old build or not.
Then you go and say it's not even that useful? Did you see the way Cliq and some of us used it in the beta? He especially was a champ with it. Get out of here with that crap man.
I'm not discounting his fan feedback at all! When did I ever say it wasn't okay for him to point it out? I'm saying it's very likely they remapped it since it seems super awkward, but if they didn't, there is nothing wrong with using a different control scheme. I find it very hard to believe that they wouldn't find out how difficult it is to ground pound with the control scheme in the many months since that build was shown.
Cliq and anyone else who likes the control scheme shouldn't have to shell out $150 just to be able to play the game effectively.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI'm REALLY tired of the whole "everything is not black and white" for plot devices. Everyone and their grandmother is doing moral/ethical ambiguity for plot these days. The only game that I have played recently that used it like a pro was The Last of Us. Most of the time it just ends up being an uninteresting story and a crutch for a weak plot. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it seems like everyone is doing it. Apparently a clear objective in good conscience isn't exciting anymore lol2edgy4me
Honestly I gotta agree that the moral ambiguity thing gets used far too much with little actual effect. It can be an interesting way to explore different perspectives and to what degree they are justified, but Halo 4 and all the material leading up to 5 hasn't exactly set Chief up as being ambiguous. We may not know what he's doing but you can bet your bottom dollar he isn't the bad guy. Locke so far has been pretty flat as a character but we'll see how it goes. Given that you have 2 whole teams the story is revolving around, it could be interesting.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JBLkjgP4Q&list=RDI5JBLkjgP4QI don't get it (cold storage I guess?) but this is pretty kickin.
By JBird20022 Go To Post*Gets elite*
*Remaps everything*
That is an option, although not an ideal one. Plus, I don't know how granular it will be when it comes to mapping. They might tie Ground Pound to Melee and if that's the case, i'm probably boned.
By derpface123 Go To PostI'm not discounting his fan feedback at all! When did I ever say it wasn't okay for him to point it out? I'm saying it's very likely they remapped it since it seems super awkward, but if they didn't, there is nothing wrong with using a different control scheme. I find it very hard to believe that they wouldn't find out how difficult it is to ground pound with the control scheme in the many months since that build was shown.
Does anyone else around here see a problem with this dude's posts? Hawt gawbidge.
Gonna ignore this chump from now on. Worthless posts.
By derpface123 Go To Posthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh0osuwkO2sChief and Locke spotted having a fistfight at 0:49
Leaked Halo 5 trailer from movie theaters. Might get taken down soon so watch it while you can.
They don't have to buy a special controller. It's a choice. If the built in control schemes were more flexible they probably wouldn't make that choice.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI'm REALLY tired of the whole "everything is not black and white" for plot devices. Everyone and their grandmother is doing moral/ethical ambiguity for plot these days. The only game that I have played recently that used it like a pro was The Last of Us. Most of the time it just ends up being an uninteresting story and a crutch for a weak plot. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it seems like everyone is doing it. Apparently a clear objective in good conscience isn't exciting anymore lol
"adding depth to a story is just a crutch for a story that'd be weak in a totally black and white context"
wut
By Wahrer Go To Post"adding depth to a story is just a crutch for a story that'd be weak in a totally black and white context"
wut
You missed my point. Wut
By derpface123 Go To PostOh no, one control scheme is messed up in a build that's months old. I'm sure if it's that bad, they will have fixed it in the final game.
I have used the default control scheme in every Halo game and it works fine for me. People blow the disadvantage of having jump set to A way out of proportion. Assuming you aren't 70 years old, you should be able to quickly press the button and move your thumb back to the right analog fast enough for it to not matter. Plus in Halo 5, having the thrusters set to B is way more cumbersome than LB, which is the default button for thrusters.
Lol.....
You should never aim to have a black and white story as they are inherently less interesting. The use of this fact in marketing and then failing to follow up in game is getting fairly annoying though.
By derpface123 Go To PostOh no, one control scheme is messed up in a build that's months old. I'm sure if it's that bad, they will have fixed it in the final game.The default control scheme in H5 is turrrible though. LT to zoom? Wut?
I have used the default control scheme in every Halo game and it works fine for me. People blow the disadvantage of having jump set to A way out of proportion. Assuming you aren't 70 years old, you should be able to quickly press the button and move your thumb back to the right analog fast enough for it to not matter. Plus in Halo 5, having the thrusters set to B is way more cumbersome than LB, which is the default button for thrusters.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostYou okay dude?
Cuz honestly that was really rude and unnecessary.
Does anyone else around here see a problem with this dude's posts? Hawt gawbidge.
Gonna ignore this chump from now on. Worthless posts.
Okay.
Never insulted Cliq, never said his fan feedback was worthless, and yet people jump to these conclusions. It's unfortunate that text can't communicate the tone of a post like verbal communication can, because I never intend for anything I post here to be hostile in any way.
I've even sympathized with Fahz in the past for his problems with the Xbox Live rep system. I really don't understand his reaction.
By jem Go To PostYou should never aim to have a black and white story as they are inherently less interesting. The use of this fact in marketing and then not following up in game is getting fairly annoying though.
The default control scheme in H5 is turrrible though. LT to zoom? Wut?
Different =/= terrible.
Your posts are immature and dismissive quite often. People can critique elements of a game without you pretending to take some high ground of "just deal with it, gosh."
By derpface123 Go To PostDifferent =/= terrible.LT to zoom = terrible.
By jem Go To PostLT to zoom = terrible.
Why? It's just different. Doesn't make it bad.
By derpface123 Go To PostOkay.
Never insulted Cliq, never said his fan feedback was worthless, and yet people jump to these conclusions. It's unfortunate that text can't communicate the tone of a post like verbal communication can, because I never intend for anything I post here to be hostile in any way.
I've even sympathized with Fahz in the past for his problems with the Xbox Live rep system. I really don't understand his reaction.
Different =/= terrible.
It's not that you have different opinions, you have a way of being a douchy with your responses.
By Invert Go To PostIt's not that you have different opinions, you have a way of being a douchy with your responses.
I don't mean to be. How do I not be douchy? I speak my mind and I don't waste the time of people who read my posts by cluttering it up with "but that's just my opinion" and similar phrases. Everything I say is my opinion, control schemes are personal preference and so nothing I say on the matter can possibly be factual. I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who never had trouble with the default scheme.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI'm REALLY tired of the whole "everything is not black and white" for plot devices. Everyone and their grandmother is doing moral/ethical ambiguity for plot these days. The only game that I have played recently that used it like a pro was The Last of Us. Most of the time it just ends up being an uninteresting story and a crutch for a weak plot. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it seems like everyone is doing it. Apparently a clear objective in good conscience isn't exciting anymore lolI sort of get where you're coming from with this; a lot of time, moral ambiguity is used in a really poor way, just dumping everyone on the shit end of the moral scale. This is then treated as a replacement for proper conflict development, having plots driven purely by the shittiness of all participants. See Game of Thrones. That rap is just as dull as the classic morality tales, because there's no particular reason to give a damn.
That said, introducing moral ambiguity into a plot that can stand on its own does nothing but good. Black and white morality is boring. The best way of doing things is to use the full spectrum; some entirely good people (who are best used as secondary characters), some purely bad people (who are used sparingly, and not as the Big Bad), and everybody else. This is seriously tough, so you generally see either shades of gray (cuts off the extremes of the spectrum), or dark vs. dark morality, which thanks to the aforementioned HBO sensation is unfortunately becoming quite popular. A very rare variant that unfortunately doesn't get much play is light vs. light, which can lead to some very interesting conflicts.
By db Go To PostIs there a reason you can't just map the buttons to whatever you want like in PC games?
Not that I can think of.
By db Go To PostIs there a reason you can't just map the buttons to whatever you want like in PC games?
No good ones. But I don't make games. Maybe it's way harder to get working properly than microtransactions and saggy boob physics.
Try not to downplay what another person is experiencing, or wants because you don't see it as an issue.
GoT was good at first but when you chuck all of the decent characters into the wood chipper and the rest that are more morally good aren't even old enough or interesting enough to root for it's like eh. Then you got some good ones that are kind of cool but now their whole identity is just wrapped up in revenge, yawn.
By Invert Go To PostTry not to downplay what another person is experiencing, or wants because you don't see it as an issue.
I'll try to work on that. I just want to clarify that I don't disagree with Cliq that having ground pound on B is really cumbersome, I just don't think it's worth worrying about since it seems like such a glaring problem with the control scheme that 343 has probably noticed by now.
If Cliq asked Josh Holmes or Quinn DelHoyo about it on Twitter, he could probably get an answer or bring it to their attention if they weren't already aware. That's what I would do.
It's really unreasonable to expect your players to buy a $150 controller just to be able to use the control scheme they want and be able to easily access all of their abilities.
By db Go To PostIs there a reason you can't just map the buttons to whatever you want like in PC games?
Apparently, the reasons are $150.00 + tax.
By Poodlestrike Go To PostI sort of get where you're coming from with this; a lot of time, moral ambiguity is used in a really poor way, just dumping everyone on the shit end of the moral scale. This is then treated as a replacement for proper conflict development, having plots driven purely by the shittiness of all participants. See Game of Thrones. That rap is just as dull as the classic morality tales, because there's no particular reason to give a damn.
That said, introducing moral ambiguity into a plot that can stand on its own does nothing but good. Black and white morality is boring. The best way of doing things is to use the full spectrum; some entirely good people (who are best used as secondary characters), some purely bad people (who are used sparingly, and not as the Big Bad), and everybody else. This is seriously tough, so you generally see either shades of gray (cuts off the extremes of the spectrum), or dark vs. dark morality, which thanks to the aforementioned HBO sensation is unfortunately becoming quite popular. A very rare variant that unfortunately doesn't get much play is light vs. light, which can lead to some very interesting conflicts.
I agree with what you are saying for the most part. However I disagree that black/white is inherently boring. I think the reason the majority have seen it as boring is because story telling (especially in games) is often cliche and uninteresting. Now it seems everyone is over compensating and doing exactly what you just negatively described with the moral ambiguity.
A perhaps silly, but apt example would be the Holocoust. Sure, there are moral ambiguities involved with the war and various conflicts on both sides, but the primary objective is to stop the crazy jackass killing millions of people. I wouldn't say that fighting WWII is morally ambiguous. It's pretty black and white. Everyone has faults and problems, but the primary goal is to stop evil in it's tracks. That is compelling and it's one of the reasons I think a lot of WWII movies and games are so satisfying--you get to see good triumph over evil.
I grow tired of the whole perceived "need" to sympathize with a villain.
The need to sympathize with a villain is annoying. Origin stories are usually ass. Also sometimes I root for the villain because the good guy is a boring morally upstanding citizen in every aspect of their life. In something like the Wire, you basically root for McNulty and Bunk to get charges to stick on guys but they're not the goody two shoes protagonist by any stretch, neither are the main guys in the first season of True Detective.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI agree with what you are saying for the most part. However I disagree that black/white is inherently boring. I think the reason the majority have seen it as boring is because story telling (especially in games) is often cliche and uninteresting. Now it seems everyone is over compensating and doing exactly what you just negatively described with the moral ambiguity.Keep in mind, you don't need to sympathize with the villain to avoid black & white morality. Introducing real flaws to the heroes is another way to go about it, not flaws that they have so the audience likes them more but real problems. What you're describing with your WWII comparison is essentially what I'm talking about; the Nazis were pure evil, and in comparison the Allies were saints... but only in comparison. Black and grey morality works too. Even Star Wars brought in a little bit with Han's mercenary attitude, and that's as closer to a pure morality tale as you can find these days.
A perhaps silly, but apt example would be the Holocoust. Sure, there are moral ambiguities involved with the war and various conflicts on both sides, but the primary objective is to stop the crazy jackass killing millions of people. I wouldn't call that a story that isn't black and white. It's pretty black and white. Everyone has faults and problems, but the primary goal is to stop evil in it's tracks. That is compelling and it's one of the reasons I think a lot of WWII movies and games are so satisfying–you get to see good triumph over evil.
I grow tired of the whole perceived "need" to sympathize with a villain.
Also: you can "lighten" the Villain without making them sympathetic, as such. They can be villains with standards, or they can work their way into an Enemy Mine situation.
By derpface123 Go To PostI'll try to work on that. I just want to clarify that I don't disagree with Cliq that having ground pound on B is really cumbersome, I just don't think it's worth worrying about since it seems like such a glaring problem with the control scheme that 343 has probably noticed by now.
If Cliq asked Josh Holmes or Quinn DelHoyo about it on Twitter, he could probably get an answer or bring it to their attention if they weren't already aware. That's what I would do.
It's really unreasonable to expect your players to buy a $150 controller just to be able to use the control scheme they want and be able to easily access all of their abilities.
I just linked this thread to Josh's twitter. Hopefully he sees it. Thanks Derp!
I would also appreciate it if anyone that see Frankie post in here to bring it to his attention. Every time i've asked him he hasn't responded.
By db Go To PostThe need to sympathize with a villain is annoying. Origin stories are usually ass. Also sometimes I root for the villain because the good guy is a boring morally upstanding citizen in every aspect of their life. In something like the Wire, you basically root for McNulty and Bunk to get charges to stick on guys but they're not the goody two shoes protagonist by any stretch, neither are the main guys in the first season of True Detective.
ANCIENT EVIL!!!!
By Poodlestrike Go To PostKeep in mind, you don't need to sympathize with the villain to avoid black & white morality. Introducing real flaws to the heroes is another way to go about it, not flaws that they have so the audience likes them more but real problems. What you're describing with your WWII comparison is essentially what I'm talking about; the Nazis were pure evil, and in comparison the Allies were saints… but only in comparison. Black and grey morality works too. Even Star Wars brought in a little bit with Han's mercenary attitude, and that's as closer to a pure morality tale as you can find these days.
You are correct and that's what I mean. I don't think WWII is a noteworthy example of moral ambiguity and shades of grey. Everyone--I mean EVERYONE has faults and doesn't always do the right thing. I don't know why media has all of a sudden made "good guys making moral mistakes" a particular noteworthy thing. Sure, it most certainly adds to humanity and character development. It doesn't mean the objective and plot isn't crystal clear and done in good conscience.
I agree on Star Wars. It's a great example of a compelling black and white moral tale. Just because there are "shades of grey" in the story telling doesn't make the main plot any less clear.
The Last of Us questioned if your murdering to survive was really any better than anyone else and it made you feel like crap because of it. Joel is kind of a scum bag. But the context and plot is compelling and makes sense. The whole plot is about questioning yourself and the world.
Both can be used in a very compelling way.
Good discussion yo
By derpface123 Go To PostOkay.
Never insulted Cliq, never said his fan feedback was worthless, and yet people jump to these conclusions. It's unfortunate that text can't communicate the tone of a post like verbal communication can, because I never intend for anything I post here to be hostile in any way.
I've even sympathized with Fahz in the past for his problems with the Xbox Live rep system. I really don't understand his reaction.
Btw, sorry being a "chump" myself. Me calling you names invalidates my post.
Sorry, but you just really rub me the wrong way and the posts you make don't seem to be empathetic or reasonable. I understand that communicating via text is hard and tone is often lost.
Thanks for sympathizing with the rep system problems I have had--I did appreciate it.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI agree on Star Wars. It's a great example of a compelling black and white moral tale. Just because there are "shades of grey" in the story telling doesn't make the main plot any less clear.
I always found the black and white nature of Star Wars to be a negative.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostBtw, sorry being a "chump" myself. Me calling you names invalidates my post.
Sorry, but you just really rub me the wrong way and the posts you make don't seem to be empathetic or reasonable. I understand that communicating via text is hard and tone is often lost.
Thanks for sympathizing with the rep system problems I have had–I did appreciate it.
Looking back on them I can see how my posts can come off the wrong way. I'll try to be more understanding in the future.
By jem Go To PostI always found the black and white nature of Star Wars to be a negative.
Yeah, you could make a case for that. I was thinking the same as I posted my response.
All I'm trying to say though is a clear objective of good over evil is still compelling and can be done really well.
By derpface123 Go To PostLooking back on them I can see how my posts can come off the wrong way. I'll try to be more understanding in the future.
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostI agree on Star Wars. It's a great example of a compelling black and white moral tale. Just because there are "shades of grey" in the story telling doesn't make the main plot any less clear.
Boring
GOOD GUYS ARE GOOD BAD GUYS ARE BAD
such storytelling
very wow
By Fahzgoolin Go To PostYeah, you could make a case for that. I was thinking the same as I posted my response.That is fair and I'd agree, that said I think a good story benefits from being 'grey' as opposed to black and white.
All I'm trying to say though is a clear objective of good over evil is still compelling and can be done really well.
I do think far too many stories get marketed as 'grey' and interesting but fail to deliver.