Further commentary on the balancing changes:
This is the first round in a never-ending series of balance changes. And we believe it's important to be completely transparent about our approach to game balance, especially when it comes to weapons and stratagems that you have strong opinions about.
Our goal is to give you a wide range of weapon choices, where each gun has its purpose and none is strictly better than another. Sure, you will have your own favorite, but it should come from your personal preference, not from the universally agreed knowledge of which gun is the strongest. Generally, we balance each item according to its quirks, so if a weapon is very effective at what it does, it should come with significant disadvantages to balance its power.
The AC-8 Autocannon is a good example of a well-balanced weapon: it packs a powerful punch, has a very good range, but requires you to carry an ammo backpack or have a friend assist you. The GL-21 Grenade Launcher is the opposite example. It's a good general purpose weapon that gives you so much flexibility, it obviously can't deal too much damage without becoming overpowered.
But weapons that are both powerful and versatile become a no-brainer choiсe during the weapon selection phase. It robs you of your own agency, as stale "meta" builds force you to make an unfair choice between a fun weapon and an effective one. In short: Powerful weapons can't be too versatile, versatile weapons can't be too powerful.
Having said all that, after analyzing player feedback and the data we've collected over the past month, we found three biggest offenders of that principle:
SG-225 Breaker
RS-422 Railgun
SH-32 Shield Generator Backpack
All three of those were quite strong with too little downsides, overshadowing all other options on higher difficulty levels. So with this patch, they're getting significant downsides to balance their power. However, we strongly believe that the changes won't ruin this build, but rather help the affected items find their place among the other options and stay effective in capable hands.
On a more personal note, I know that having your favorite toy nerfed absolutely sucks. Investing countless hours into mastering a weapon is an incredible dedication from you. which is the main reason we're making this game in the first place. And then having that weapon weakened feels like a punishment for being too good at the game.
But I implore you not to compare a changed item with its older version, but to evaluate the existing one as it is and see if it still has a place in your heart.
We thank you for your dedication and commitment to spreading Democracy in the most optimal way possible! Now it's up to us to make it as fun and entertaining as we can
Oh and we also buffed a bunch of weapons as well!
"The Railgun was overperfoming in it's ease of use and convenience. We therefore made it so that the safe mode of the Railgun is not able to penetrate heavier armor, but the unsafe overcharged mode is still able to penetrate the heavier armor. In addition the damage that the Railgun does to massive body parts is reduced, meaning you need to land headshots and other specific weakpoint shot for it to have maximum efficiency."
why is it impossible to find those pink elements?
need to upgrade my ship, the 'Princess of Opportunity'
need to upgrade my ship, the 'Princess of Opportunity'
By Kabro Go To Postwhy is it impossible to find those pink elements?Are you doing at least rank 7 difficulty?
need to upgrade my ship, the 'Princess of Opportunity'
By Kabro Go To Postwhy is it impossible to find those pink elements?
need to upgrade my ship, the 'Princess of Opportunity'
Keep a lookout for these.
By Kibner Go To PostAre you doing at least rank 7 difficulty?i believe so.
let's team up and fight for liberty as we treasure hunt for these pink elements, kib.
By Laboured Go To PostKeep a lookout for these.so look out for penis heads coming out the ground?
By Kabro Go To Postso look out for penis heads coming out the ground?
My brother that is an upside down ballsack. Get with the dang programme.
can we update OP with everyone's friends code?
would like to play with my fellow democracy loving brethrens
would like to play with my fellow democracy loving brethrens
By Laboured Go To PostI thought friend codes expire / are temporary?oh right. pretty damn annoying.
If not then fine.
It’s real shame to see them nerf the rail and breaker instead of buffing other weapons up to parity. Just a shit way to balance a PvE game, the focus should be on making everything fun to use in unique ways given the available arsenal.
The rail gun absolutely needed to be nerfed because it didn’t fill a niche, it filled a bunch of them and for much less risk. It was a Swiss Army knife for every non-swarm situation.
On the basis that the Rail nerf amounts to "this is not the all-round win everything gun anymore and you need to skilfully use the unsafe mode to get the most out of it" and the Breaker nerf amounts to 3 less shells per mag and a bit of recoil, I think the nerfs are perfectly fine and are quite minimal.
As to buffs, they've only done a few and they are doing more substantial work on others. The ones they did buff people seem mostly happy with.
But that's what they're doing. The Rail being a ridiculous all-rounder with almost no downsides is literally counter to that philosophy. And if you're advocating making all weapons ridiculously powerful all-rounders then would also not be smart.
As to buffs, they've only done a few and they are doing more substantial work on others. The ones they did buff people seem mostly happy with.
By HottestGrapes Go To Postthe focus should be on making everything fun to use in unique ways given the available arsenal.
But that's what they're doing. The Rail being a ridiculous all-rounder with almost no downsides is literally counter to that philosophy. And if you're advocating making all weapons ridiculously powerful all-rounders then would also not be smart.
Heh, just seen the Liberator Explosive has been renamed and re-described. I actually understand what it's going for now. It's actually intended to be a CC weapon.
The weird thing about people getting pissed about the railgun nerf is... you have fucking orbital and eagle stratagems in the game. Nerfing railguns still leaves you with a variety of damned OP abilities than in any other game.
The rail gun did have downsides though.
It could instantly fucking kill you.
It had zero ability for crown control/wave clear.
Limited ammo (20 shots).
It could INSTANTLY FUCKING KILL YOU.
It was still strong, obviously, but other weapons absolutely needed to be buffed in line with it.
The recoilless rifle and expendable anti-tank in particular needed big buffs to counter their limited ammo for instance. The flame thrower needed more range and it should cause weaker enemies to flinch so they can’t attack through the flames.
Asking for or being happy with nerfs is literally being in favour of the automatons and termanids. Which is arguing against spreading democracy.
It could instantly fucking kill you.
It had zero ability for crown control/wave clear.
Limited ammo (20 shots).
It could INSTANTLY FUCKING KILL YOU.
It was still strong, obviously, but other weapons absolutely needed to be buffed in line with it.
The recoilless rifle and expendable anti-tank in particular needed big buffs to counter their limited ammo for instance. The flame thrower needed more range and it should cause weaker enemies to flinch so they can’t attack through the flames.
Asking for or being happy with nerfs is literally being in favour of the automatons and termanids. Which is arguing against spreading democracy.
Laser Cannon and Flamethower just got some very tasty buffs, and arguably the Flamethrower is now the de facto Charger destroyer if you know what you're doing. I also suspect from the dev blog that they think they've probably overpowered the Laser Cannon now so enjoy while you can.
I do agree that more weapons need buffs and my understanding is that's what they're currently doing they just take longer to test and roll out.
I do agree that more weapons need buffs and my understanding is that's what they're currently doing they just take longer to test and roll out.
By HottestGrapes Go To PostIt’s real shame to see them nerf the rail and breaker instead of buffing other weapons up to parity. Just a shit way to balance a PvE game, the focus should be on making everything fun to use in unique ways given the available arsenal.That "don't nerf, buff everything" line of thinking is exactly why destiny is legit braindead now
By HottestGrapes Go To PostThe rail gun did have downsides though.Only if it's set on unsafe right?
It could instantly fucking kill you.
It had zero ability for crown control/wave clear.
Limited ammo (20 shots).
It could INSTANTLY FUCKING KILL YOU.
It was still strong, obviously, but other weapons absolutely needed to be buffed in line with it.
The recoilless rifle and expendable anti-tank in particular needed big buffs to counter their limited ammo for instance. The flame thrower needed more range and it should cause weaker enemies to flinch so they can’t attack through the flames.
Asking for or being happy with nerfs is literally being in favour of the automatons and termanids. Which is arguing against spreading democracy.
The issue is that it was the most effective rifle on safe mode. Looking like the damage during unsafe post patch, is the same as when it was safe pre patch.
Think that's a good nerf.
By DY_nasty Go To PostThat "don't nerf, buff everything" line of thinking is exactly why destiny is legit braindead now
There’s a lot of reason why Destiny is shit, let’s be honest now.
By Flutter Go To PostOnly if it's set on unsafe right?
The issue is that it was the most effective rifle on safe mode. Looking like the damage during unsafe post patch, is the same as when it was safe pre patch.
Think that's a good nerf.
Another termanid sympathiser.
The thing with armour seems to be that it all works now but does not protect you from head shots which do double-ish damage regardless of armour.
you may think that flamethrower x jetpack is legit, but i promise it isn't
they "buffed everything" until they point where they had to insert champions into the game - and everyone hates them in all content. then they threw out anti champion mods, and abilities, and gave the enemies other speedbump mechanics that all fucking sucked.
and now the game is legit mid in every direction at once. buff everything is just a bad and watered down philosophy all around
By HottestGrapes Go To PostThere’s a lot of reason why Destiny is shit, let’s be honest now.im just sayin
Another termanid sympathiser.
they "buffed everything" until they point where they had to insert champions into the game - and everyone hates them in all content. then they threw out anti champion mods, and abilities, and gave the enemies other speedbump mechanics that all fucking sucked.
and now the game is legit mid in every direction at once. buff everything is just a bad and watered down philosophy all around
By DY_nasty Go To Postyou may think that flamethrower x jetpack is legit, but i promise it isn't
im just sayin
they "buffed everything" until they point where they had to insert champions into the game - and everyone hates them in all content. then they threw out anti champion mods, and abilities, and gave the enemies other speedbump mechanics that all fucking sucked.
and now the game is legit mid in every direction at once. buff everything is just a bad and watered down philosophy all around
Generally I agree that buffing everything is a bad idea in most games.
Given that there’s only 12 support weapons in HD2, and they’re all fairly unique. I think buffing to parity is a viable approach to balancing in this specific case.
There’s room there for each gun to have specific strengths and drawbacks, to fulfil certain needs when dealing with different enemy types. Above all, there’s room for them all to be fun in their own way.
Also makes sense lore wise because why the fuck would Super Earth nerf their soldiers in the galactic war against bots and bugs?
By HottestGrapes Go To PostAlso makes sense lore wise because why the fuck would Super Earth nerf their soldiers in the galactic war against bots and bugs?A democratic / socialist / fascist government fucking themselves up via corruption or going for the lowest bidder for the continued maintenance, development, or manufacturing of weapons?
By Flutter Go To PostA democratic / socialist / fascist government fucking themselves up via corruption or going for the lowest bidder for the continued maintenance, development, or manufacturing of weapons?
By HottestGrapes Go To PostPlease stop gaslighting me fellow human
By data Go To PostLet me pimp out my mech.
Pimped out mech with dual flamethrowers. It is the dream.
Only played a couple of times but it's very fun, I like it a lot.
That said, I'm a little surprised to see so much serious discussion about balance changes and the like, from what i've played it's just a very fun "turn your brain off" game where you shoot hundreds of bugs. Am I missing something? Or is it just that I haven't played higher difficulties yet so right now it doesn't seem to really matter what I use, just whatever I find is the most fun
That said, I'm a little surprised to see so much serious discussion about balance changes and the like, from what i've played it's just a very fun "turn your brain off" game where you shoot hundreds of bugs. Am I missing something? Or is it just that I haven't played higher difficulties yet so right now it doesn't seem to really matter what I use, just whatever I find is the most fun
By Willkiller Go To PostOnly played a couple of times but it's very fun, I like it a lot.The Zoomer brain can't comprehend fun only meta. If a game is popular, they will find the most MLG way to play it.
That said, I'm a little surprised to see so much serious discussion about balance changes and the like, from what i've played it's just a very fun "turn your brain off" game where you shoot hundreds of bugs. Am I missing something? Or is it just that I haven't played higher difficulties yet so right now it doesn't seem to really matter what I use, just whatever I find is the most fun
that said, rail gun and breaker was so broken that it wasnt a case of meta it was so much vastly better than everything else that you are just making it more difficlut for yourself for no reason whatsoever if you dont use it. Regardless of what playstyle you excel at/prefer
By data Go To PostThe Zoomer brain can't comprehend fun only meta. If a game is popular, they will find the most MLG way to play it.Fair enough, that makes sense. I really haven't played enough of it to really know, it just right now feels like a very casual fun game. Hopefully the devs keep that in mind.
that said, rail gun and breaker was so broken that it wasnt a case of meta it was so much vastly better than everything else that you are just making it more difficlut for yourself for no reason whatsoever if you dont use it. Regardless of what playstyle you excel at/prefer
TBF I don't even really understand the GAAS part yet, something about all squads working towards a common goal? Fuck knows. I just shoot the bugs.
By Willkiller Go To PostFair enough, that makes sense. I really haven't played enough of it to really know, it just right now feels like a very casual fun game. Hopefully the devs keep that in mind.The game does get increasingly difficult. Like exponentially once you start doing Suicide/Helldive type levels
TBF I don't even really understand the GAAS part yet, something about all squads working towards a common goal? Fuck knows. I just shoot the bugs.
By Willkiller Go To PostOnly played a couple of times but it's very fun, I like it a lot.
That said, I'm a little surprised to see so much serious discussion about balance changes and the like, from what i've played it's just a very fun "turn your brain off" game where you shoot hundreds of bugs. Am I missing something? Or is it just that I haven't played higher difficulties yet so right now it doesn't seem to really matter what I use, just whatever I find is the most fun
By Willkiller Go To PostFair enough, that makes sense. I really haven't played enough of it to really know, it just right now feels like a very casual fun game. Hopefully the devs keep that in mind.
TBF I don't even really understand the GAAS part yet, something about all squads working towards a common goal? Fuck knows. I just shoot the bugs.
Feels like there's a conflict brewing between the players who just want a casual fun time (the Good Guys), and those who want to exclusively min-max at the highest possible difficulties (horrible little shits). I'm not sure it's perfectly possible to cater to both.
As a Destiny vet, fair bit of warning, people will find ways to optimise the fun out of the game. I pray Arrowhead doesn't try to legislate for these people. If they do, things will spiral.
By DY_nasty Go To Postyou may think that flamethrower x jetpack is legit, but i promise it isn't
im just sayin
