By DY_nasty Go To Posti don't think any team is building around anyone in this draftEven your bench unit, no team is prioritizing that style of play nowadays.
By reilo Go To PostNoone is gonna build their offense around a dude like that in 2024. He's a gimmick offensive player.I'm pretty sure NBA teams will use whatever offense they think will be most efficient. If they were getting ppp like Edey was on postups, teams would post up a lot. Either way, considering he has also shown that he can be elite in a Steve Adams role as a traditional roll man, I don't understand why you think he is somehow going to fall apart offensively in the NBA.
By Sharp Go To PostI'm pretty sure NBA teams will use whatever offense they think will be most efficient. If they were getting ppp like Edey was on postups, teams would post up a lot. Either way, considering he has also shown that he can be elite in a Steve Adams role as a traditional roll man, I don't understand why you think he is somehow going to fall apart offensively in the NBA.Dude no lmao
By reilo Go To PostDude no lmaoThe literal best player in the league right now runs 5 postups per game on extremely high efficiency, teams are completely fine running postups when they make for good offense. I know what you're going to say next--"you're can't compare gimmick Edey to Jokic!" Well, he is a pretty fucking obvious physical outlier who is going to outweigh and outsize all but a handful of centers in the NBA by a huge amount, so why not wait to see what he actually looks like in the league before you decide he's not going to be able to score over much smaller dudes in exactly the same way he did in college? When that fails, as it inevitably will, he'll have to settle for being an awesome roll and cut big just like 90% of the centers in the league.
Edey ran like 15 postups in college it's not even comparable.
It's really telling that not even the smartest scouting FOs are even considering taking him in such a weak draft. OKC even has a lottery pick and he'll fall past them.
You, once again, are focusing on the end result and not the process. His style of play if translated directly from college will kill any offense in today's NBA.
It's really telling that not even the smartest scouting FOs are even considering taking him in such a weak draft. OKC even has a lottery pick and he'll fall past them.
You, once again, are focusing on the end result and not the process. His style of play if translated directly from college will kill any offense in today's NBA.
By reilo Go To PostEdey ran like 15 postups in college it's not even comparable.Why are you so focused on the idea that if Edey doesn't play exactly like he did in college he is going to suck? The vast majority of role players in the league right now were high usage stars in college. He was extremely efficient at aspects of his game that don't involve postups--he ran a lot of non postup possessions that he was also elite in and has built up a very large sample of such plays over the last four years. I also don't understand why OKC hypothetically refusing to take someone (the draft hasn't happened yet so I have no idea how you determined this, but whatever) means anything, OKC has drafted plenty of busts and lets very good players slip past them when they don't fit their teambuilding philosophy.
It's really telling that not even the smartest scouting FOs are even considering taking him. OKC even has a lottery pick and he'll fall past them.
You, once again, are focusing on the end result and not the process. His style of play if translated directly from college will kill any offense in today's NBA.
As for the "process not results" thing... I don't think you understand how spacing works if you think highly efficient postups don't create spacing. They do it the same way drives do--teams have to collapse to defend the paint, opening up shooters. Jokic does this all the time. The goal of an offense is to score efficiently on each possession, it doesn't matter how it looks or what pace you play at as long as you're accomplishing that goal.
By reilo Go To PostThat doesn't make him a Top 5 draft selection my guyI don't think he's going to be selected top five, but I do think his average outcome is top 5 in this class. Steven Adams is a good player who would be in the top ten best players in a lot of classes, and this is a very weak class at the top.
holland gets the "he's actually low key effective even if he doesn't know how to play basketball" bump
By DY_nasty Go To Postholland gets the "he's actually low key effective even if he doesn't know how to play basketball" bumpWhat is Holland's certifiable NBA skill?
By DY_nasty Go To Postholland gets the "he's actually low key effective even if he doesn't know how to play basketball" bumpPretty much. Honestly I am lower on Holland than this--I don't agree with this position exactly--but this class runs out of guys I actually like fast and he has some Jaylen Brown tendencies that mean he probably shouldn't fall too far. The biggest reasons he would fall way further than that are that apparently he can't even shoot in an empty gym which would pretty much ruin any chances of him having actual shooting upside, but we have no idea whether that's actually true or just rumors people are spreading.
By reilo Go To PostWhat is Holland's certifiable NBA skill?He's big and reasonably athletic (though by no means the number one overall uber athlete people were claiming he was before the combine). His steal rate and block rate are both legit and he gets to the rim a lot and finishes through contact well. Might not sound like much, but I know all of you have yelled repeatedly at guys his size who just cannot finish to save their lives, it's important. He isn't afraid to score. He also at least attempts to make passes and rebound, which automatically makes him better than almost all the other "upside" picks people are hyping up. And he's super young (18 on draft night), so the numbers he's putting up are more impressive than if he were doing the same thing at like, 20. I would honestly like him a lot as a prospect except that I think there's a very good chance he cannot shoot at all which is just not acceptable for a wing in the modern league.
what sharp said
the fact his floor is dominic mcquire or something makes him a safe pick in this taco bell drive thru ass draft
the fact his floor is dominic mcquire or something makes him a safe pick in this taco bell drive thru ass draft
By reilo Go To PostSteven Adams was picked 12th? What's your point?My point is that he is better than the 12th best player from that class? He has the seventh most VORP of any 2013 draftee (which was also a weak class), and VORP is based on BPM which only factors in box score components. But Adams has notoriously always been a player who provides a ton of non box score value, through stuff like setting excellent screens, and boxouts leading to defensive rebounds for other players on the team.
Him being significantly underrated by box score stats can be verified through RAPM, he very often appears on lists of "players most underrated by [BPM equivalent] vs. RAPM." When you factor in that stuff, I'm quite confident he returned top 5 value in that class.
Given that the 2024 draft is being compared to the 2013 draft, I don't think it's unreasonable to say new age Steve Adams has a good chance of returning top 5 value this year, too (or close to it). That doesn't mean he necessarily has that level of value to every team, but that's true of a lot of other players in this class (e.g. Dillingham probably has very limited value to most teams, even if they think he's going to be good; a bunch of teams want a player like Risacher, even though Risacher himself has a lot of red flags as a prospect, so he'll probably go higher than he should).
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhat sharp said
the fact his floor is dominic mcquire or something makes him a safe pick in this taco bell drive thru ass draft
Dom McGuire would have been Herb Jones level good in the league today
By DY_nasty Go To Postedey got the best college whistle in the past 20 years ijsThis is what I worry about. I legit can’t remember anything like it.
boston may have finally played herself into shape lol
cardoso and reese gonna be hell for opposing teams eventually. they desperately need better guards though
cardoso and reese gonna be hell for opposing teams eventually. they desperately need better guards though
By DY_nasty Go To Postboston may have finally played herself into shape lollol i am thinking the same thing
cardoso and reese gonna be hell for opposing teams eventually. they desperately need better guards though
mabrey as, like their third perimeter player would be incredible. as their first, second, and third perimeter option, though? not good
I actually don’t hate Edey for the Blazers but a lot of that is Ayton’s fault with his “screening” and avoiding contact at all costs stuff. The other part is the bench is too damned small.
But I’d also much rather have Clingan, injuries notwithstanding. Much better passer.
Edey’s production on offense is undeniable and nobody is guarding that in single coverage in the NBA. Particularly not on bench units. But he needs a secondary rim protector + a good POA guy for it to work at minimum and I don’t know that you should build a team around someone slow like that.
But I’d also much rather have Clingan, injuries notwithstanding. Much better passer.
Edey’s production on offense is undeniable and nobody is guarding that in single coverage in the NBA. Particularly not on bench units. But he needs a secondary rim protector + a good POA guy for it to work at minimum and I don’t know that you should build a team around someone slow like that.
edey's offensive production is deniable as fuck because of the whistle he got. the past two years he got better catered officiating than legit HoF college players man
its one thing when size is part of the skill gap, but college kids legit don't even know where to start when you can't touch a guy that big who also never has to leave the paint after establishing position
its one thing when size is part of the skill gap, but college kids legit don't even know where to start when you can't touch a guy that big who also never has to leave the paint after establishing position
There's nobody that knows how to do post entry passes especially on bench units anymore, either. No coach wants to waste 20 seconds establishing a post entry play.
Even the best like Jokic posts himself up like Barkley in the 90s as an option play with the ball in his hands.
Even the best like Jokic posts himself up like Barkley in the 90s as an option play with the ball in his hands.
By DY_nasty Go To Postedey's offensive production is deniable as fuck because of the whistle he got. the past two years he got better catered officiating than legit HoF college players manI've been looking for an actual study on this because I've both heard "FTr isn't very highly correlated between college and the NBA" and "FTr is very projectable from college to the NBA" with neither side giving any evidence. But the fact that Edey had an elite FTr even his rookie year (when he played 14 minutes a game off the bench and barely knew how to play basketball) makes me pretty sure this is cap. He got fouled all the time because college centers couldn't stop him without fouling, not because he was getting a superstar whistle (at least, not until his senior year)... his FTr could cut in half in the NBA and still be almost as good as Paolo's.
its one thing when size is part of the skill gap, but college kids legit don't even know where to start when you can't touch a guy that big who also never has to leave the paint after establishing position
I expect his FTr goes down quite a bit, but also I’ve seen way too many damn games where he’s finishing easily with 3 dudes draped over him anyway. Even Clingan didn’t do much to slow the guy down at all.
It’s really his defense that I worry about more than anything.
It’s really his defense that I worry about more than anything.
By Sharp Go To PostI've been looking for an actual study on this because I've both heard "FTr isn't very highly correlated between college and the NBA" and "FTr is very projectable from college to the NBA" with neither side giving any evidence. But the fact that Edey had an elite FTr even his rookie year (when he played 14 minutes a game off the bench and barely knew how to play basketball) makes me pretty sure this is cap. He got fouled all the time because college centers couldn't stop him without fouling, not because he was getting a superstar whistle (at least, not until his senior year)… his FTr could cut in half in the NBA and still be almost as good as Paolo's.its not cap at all that college refs have wildly different brands of officiating conference to conference and when there's a unique player, wild new baselines develop and vanish with them
like if big east basketbrawl, pac-100, #accrefs, etc don't ring a bell to you then im sorry you missed out on what makes college basketball 'special'
By Christberg Go To PostI expect his FTr goes down quite a bit, but also I’ve seen way too many damn games where he’s finishing easily with 3 dudes draped over him anyway. Even Clingan didn’t do much to slow the guy down at all.if you're not allowed to stop or impede a guy from getting position, then you stop trying. and you're left putting your hands up against a player that can see over the top of your head.
It’s really his defense that I worry about more than anything.
By DY_nasty Go To Postif you're not allowed to stop or impede a guy from getting position, then you stop trying. and you're left putting your hands up against a player that can see over the top of your head.sounds like perimeter defense as called in the nba
By DY_nasty Go To Postits not cap at all that college refs have wildly different brands of officiating conference to conference and when there's a unique player, wild new baselines develop and vanish with them
like if big east basketbrawl, pac-100, #accrefs, etc don't ring a bell to you then im sorry you missed out on what makes college basketball 'special'
if you're not allowed to stop or impede a guy from getting position, then you stop trying. and you're left putting your hands up against a player that can see over the top of your head.
actually shocked that you still know how to shitpost more than anything else lol. why save that for me and not reilo
but fr, if you can only look at FTr the output and not value what goes into it then you're skating entirely around the officiating factor in the first place. and some of us actually (regretfully) still watch college ball. never said anything about the defense, just that he's not manufacturing buckets the same way in the NBA and certainly not guaranteed as some team's offensive focal point.
but fr, if you can only look at FTr the output and not value what goes into it then you're skating entirely around the officiating factor in the first place. and some of us actually (regretfully) still watch college ball. never said anything about the defense, just that he's not manufacturing buckets the same way in the NBA and certainly not guaranteed as some team's offensive focal point.
By DY_nasty Go To Postactually shocked that you still know how to shitpost more than anything else lol. why save that for me and not reiloThe thing is, if you asked most people in the NBA (who definitely watch) whether Embiid, Harden, or other foul baiters' games would translate to some hypothetical higher league... most people would say no, they were too reliant on NBA officiating. But in fact they all had super high FTrs before they made the NBA too (Harden's FTr was similar to Edey's first three years, and Embiid's FTr was similar to Edey's senior year--which is insane, but Embiid is the FTAr goat). Some guys are just elite at manipulating refs and it doesn't really matter which league they're in. Edey might be one of them.
but fr, if you can only look at FTr the output and not value what goes into it then you're skating entirely around the officiating factor in the first place. and some of us actually (regretfully) still watch college ball. never said anything about the defense, just that he's not manufacturing buckets the same way in the NBA and certainly not guaranteed as some team's offensive focal point.
By Sharp Go To PostThe thing is, if you asked most people in the NBA (who definitely watch) whether Embiid, Harden, or other foul baiters' games would translate to some hypothetical higher league… most people would say no, they were too reliant on NBA officiating. But in fact they all had super high FTrs before they made the NBA too (Harden's FTr was similar to Edey's first three years, and Embiid's FTr was similar to Edey's senior year–which is insane, but Embiid is the FTAr goat). Some guys are just elite at manipulating refs and it doesn't really matter which league they're in. Edey might be one of them.
That's faceup vs post up though, the NBA isn't giving the whistle to guys just backing people down like that. Embiid had a much better faceup and attack game at 19-20 than Edey does now.
By Sharp Go To PostThe thing is, if you asked most people in the NBA (who definitely watch) whether Embiid, Harden, or other foul baiters' games would translate to some hypothetical higher league… most people would say no, they were too reliant on NBA officiating. But in fact they all had super high FTrs before they made the NBA too (Harden's FTr was similar to Edey's first three years, and Embiid's FTr was similar to Edey's senior year–which is insane, but Embiid is the FTAr goat). Some guys are just elite at manipulating refs and it doesn't really matter which league they're in. Edey might be one of them.and this is moving pretty far away from what i actually said
By DY_nasty Go To Postits not cap at all that college refs have wildly different brands of officiating conference to conference and when there's a unique player, wild new baselines develop and vanish with themits not even a foul baiting thing with edey, its a college refs bracketing officiating around unique players problem. and its wild how two dramatically different tourney run endings can change a guy's entire perception when he's essentially the same player. is he more skilled or dynamic than towns or chet? hell nah. is he a stiff living off of height like thabeet? that's not the theme either.
like if big east basketbrawl, pac-100, #accrefs, etc don't ring a bell to you then im sorry you missed out on what makes college basketball 'special'
nothing i'm saying about the guy is new. hell, purdue needed lance jones more than they needed edey to do anything different coming into this season.
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostThat's faceup vs post up though, the NBA isn't giving the whistle to guys just backing people down like that. Embiid had a much better faceup and attack game at 19-20 than Edey does now.I guess we'll see. I don't particularly think he has to draw free throws at anywhere close to the rate he did in college to be a good player, that's more his upside case. I just don't think you can ignore that upside case completely like a lot of people do.
Expecting edey to have anything close to the FTr he had in college is a recipe for disaster. Not that he can’t be a serviceable pro but accounting for the generational favorable whistle he got in college plus how the nba is called he is going to be lucky to get 1/3 of what he got in college.
By s y brev Go To PostI havent watched a second of this series but why is there not a game today?Travel.
By s y brev Go To PostI havent watched a second of this series but why is there not a game today?they all wanted to watch House of the Dragon
They know Boston gonna be too blitzed well before that game even starts on a Sunday on Father's Day man.
General feeling around the Pels is that if Ingram is willing to sign for 40M AAV or less, he is probably staying a Pel. Otherwise, they will try to move him for a player that is both shot creator and willing 3pt shooter or a mobile defensive big that can is either a great PnR finisher or a reliable threat from 3.