By reilo Go To PostThe same Hinkie that was kicked out of the league?
Hows that working out?
They fired him and drafted Fultz over Tatum and traded Mikal Bridges for Zahire Smith just so they could use the pick they got to trade for Tobias Harris.
#FreeHinkie
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostHows that working out?That was Hinkie's doing:
They fired him and drafted Fultz over Tatum and traded Mikal Bridges for Zahire Smith just so they could use the pick they got to trade for Tobias Harris.
#FreeHinkie
July 9, 2015: Traded Artūras Gudaitis, Luka Mitrović and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings for Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, a 2017 1st round draft pick (Jayson Tatum was later selected) and a 2019 1st round draft pick (Romeo Langford was later selected). (76ers exercised right to swap picks in 2017 NBA Draft, taking #3 overall pick and sending back #5 overall pick)Hinkie traded away Fox AND Tatum
But yea, go off bro about needing more draft picks some more
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostOG won't get you a lottery pick in a trade but he could hurt the odds of your own pick, he's good for a couple wins here and there on the random night he got 25+ to go with his defense. He also doesn't want to be just a 3 & D guy anymore, he's like Grant when he went to the Pistons, he wants touches and more responsibility on offense.I vehemently disagree with the bolded. You will always want at least 1 or 2 starter-level vets and a couple more rotation-worthy bench vets to go along with any kind of rebuild. Otherwise, it is way too easy for the young guys you are counting on to develop bad habits.
There's a lot of other players you gotta move and there's no guarantees anyone will trade for them, I think y'all are stuck with Grant too. If you're gonna do a rebuild go scorched earth, don't see how keeping OG helps and if teams wanna throw multiple picks at getting him that makes the most sense.
I really don't see how OG is anything but a great pairing for the likes of Scoot and Shae. If anything, he's the archetype a team like that needs for those two to be successful.
Fun fact: OG would be the first All-Defensive player on the Trail Blazers since Theo Ratliff in 2003-04.
Fun fact: OG would be the first All-Defensive player on the Trail Blazers since Theo Ratliff in 2003-04.
By reilo Go To PostThat was Hinkie's doing:Big Collars drafted Fultz.
Hinkie traded away Fox AND Tatum
But yea, go off bro about needing more draft picks some more
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57315297/usa_today_10126989.0.jpg)
Asset accumulation worked Tatum > Fox
By Kibner Go To PostI vehemently disagree with the bolded. You will always want at least 1 or 2 starter-level vets and a couple more rotation-worthy bench vets to go along with any kind of rebuild. Otherwise, it is way too easy for the young guys you are counting on to develop bad habits.
I'm with the scorched earth policy, Hinkie and KOC are right. Teams that keep the vets or stars around generally hold onto them too long and dig the hole deeper. Just think of the package the Blazers could have gotten for Lillard last year.
What the Jazz did was great, and textbook maximizing Hinkie assets, Ainge is another GM I think highly of.
Hinkie was the one that fucked that. There's a scenario here where they could've had Fox AND Tatum but they decided they'd rather scorch more earth.
And honestly, outside of Embiid, Hinkie was probably a really bad draft evaluator. All of his other picks didn't really pan out.
And honestly, outside of Embiid, Hinkie was probably a really bad draft evaluator. All of his other picks didn't really pan out.
Making OG the centerpiece of a Dame trade would be incredibly foolish for Portland. Would make sense if they got word that he was willing to sign an extension but if he wasn't willing to extend with Toronto...
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostI'm with the scorched earth policy, Hinkie and KOC are right. Teams that keep the vets or stars around generally hold onto them too long and dig the hole deeper. Just think of the package the Blazers could have gotten for Lillard last year.Wait wait wait wait wait wait
What the Jazz did was great, and textbook, Ainge is another GM I think highly of.
What the Jazz did was great? You mean get a return of a veteran in Lauri, Sexton, and keep Clarkson around? The same Utah Jazz that DIDN'T bottom out right away? The same Jazz that just traded for another veteran in John Collins????????????
I'm SO confused by your arguments now.
By masud Go To PostMaking OG the centerpiece of a Dame trade would be incredibly foolish for Portland. Would make sense if they got word that he was willing to sign an extension but if he wasn't willing to extend with Toronto…Listen to the Knicks fan clamoring for Lillard and OG yall
Pro-tip: no player is gonna leave 5/$150mil to go get a worse contract elsewhere
By reilo Go To PostHinkie was the one that fucked that. There's a scenario here where they could've had Fox AND Tatum but they decided they'd rather scorch more earth.
And honestly, outside of Embiid, Hinkie was probably a really bad draft evaluator. All of his other picks didn't really pan out.
Misunderstood genius, they didn't need Fox and Tatum, they just needed Tatum. Also ownership there is bad, he wanted Porzingis and they overruled for Okafor. All I know is they had assets for days when he was there and could have literally had a team with Bridges, Butler, Tatum and more assets in the bank to spare. Because of Hinkie
By masud Go To PostMaking OG the centerpiece of a Dame trade would be incredibly foolish for Portland. Would make sense if they got word that he was willing to sign an extension but if he wasn't willing to extend with Toronto…When the proposed alternative is Herro, who has all the same questions, I’d rather take OG.
In 3-4 years (if Scoot and Shae develop as the team hopes), a 29-year old OG in his prime is... the perfect pairing. I don't understand this sweating over a dude that's gonna make less than 20% of the cap by then.
By reilo Go To PostWait wait wait wait wait wait
What the Jazz did was great? You mean get a return of a veteran in Lauri, Sexton, and keep Clarkson around? The same Utah Jazz that DIDN'T bottom out right away? The same Jazz that just traded for another veteran in John Collins????????????
I'm SO confused by your arguments now.
No, trading stars for max return, they got a return on Gobert that may be more than what y'all get for Lillard. They got as many picks as they could, they even turned Vanderbilt & Conley into a first rounder.
OG is going to be a free agent too, without assurances he's going to stay. You'll get more for him now than you would later, teams already offered 3 picks for him 🤔
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostMisunderstood genius, they didn't need Fox and Tatum, they just needed Tatum. Also ownership there is bad, he wanted Porzingis and they overruled for Okafor. All I know is they had assets for days when he was there and could have literally had a team with Bridges, Butler, Tatum and more assets in the bank to spare. Because of HinkieHow is Hinkie getting credit for Jimmy Buttler, Bridges, et al? The only reason they even traded for Jimmy is because they went for a win-now roster and decided to end the process. Hinkie was NEVER gonna make a move like that.
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostNo, trading stars for max return, they got a return on Gobert that may be more than what y'all get for Lillard. They got as many picks as they could, they even turned Vanderbilt & Conley into a first rounder.It's clear the Gobert thing was a one-time all-time WOAT fuck-up by the Wolves. Noone is getting a return like that again.
By You got 14 bricks right there? Go To PostOG is going to be a free agent too, without assurances he's going to stay. You'll get more for him now than you would later, teams already offered 3 picks for him 🤔They're not trading for him without the proverbial wink-wink.
If anyone had offered 3 picks for OG, Masai would've traded him by now. Noone is giving that up.
By reilo Go To PostHow is Hinkie getting credit for Jimmy Buttler, Bridges, et al? The only reason they even traded for Jimmy is because they went for a win-now roster and decided to end the process. Hinkie was NEVER gonna make a move like that.
The process was all about cashing in your assets once you have your cornerstone. We never got to see the end result.
Trading for Harris has taken years off my boy Knux life too.
Noone is claiming the post-Hinkie moves were the right ones but to give him credit for the good ones and absolve him of the bad ones is disingenuous.
By reilo Go To PostIt's clear the Gobert thing was a one-time all-time WOAT fuck-up by the Wolves. Noone is getting a return like that again.
They're not trading for him without the proverbial wink-wink.
If anyone had offered 3 picks for OG, Masai would've traded him by now. Noone is giving that up.
Masai been washed, too many reports of the Pacers, Knicks and Grizz offering multiple picks for him. We also seen that Masai will lose a player for nothing like FVV too.
I'm still not convinced Masai has the balls -- I think he really disliked the fanbase's reaction to losing a beloved player like Derozan and then seeing Kawhi walk away even after a 'chip. He's got PTSD, for sure.
BUT, if he were to have the balls, the OG package and Nurk for Ayton swap with some picks thrown into it is what I would prefer. I also want to keep OG, I think Portland has lacked a SF of that caliber for almost a decade now.
Fuck scorched earth, it rarely works unless you're the Spurs. And noone else is the Spurs.
BUT, if he were to have the balls, the OG package and Nurk for Ayton swap with some picks thrown into it is what I would prefer. I also want to keep OG, I think Portland has lacked a SF of that caliber for almost a decade now.
Fuck scorched earth, it rarely works unless you're the Spurs. And noone else is the Spurs.
By reilo Go To PostListen to the Knicks fan clamoring for Lillard and OG yallThe return for my superstar point guard being a guy that's going to hit unrestricted free agency in a year would scare the crap out of me as a small market team that's not going to be any good for the foreseeable future. But do you.
Pro-tip: no player is gonna leave 5/$150mil to go get a worse contract elsewhere
By Kibner Go To PostWhen the proposed alternative is Herro, who has all the same questions, I’d rather take OG.I'm saying I'd rather take Dick (Jesus...) and all the assets the Raptors can get for OG.
By reilo Go To PostI'm still not convinced Masai has the balls – I think he really disliked the fanbase's reaction to losing a beloved player like Derozan and then seeing Kawhi walk away even after a 'chip. He's got PTSD, for sure.
BUT, if he were to have the balls, the OG package and Nurk for Ayton swap with some picks thrown into it is what I would prefer. I also want to keep OG, I think Portland has lacked a SF of that caliber for almost a decade now.
Fuck scorched earth, it rarely works unless you're the Spurs. And noone else is the Spurs.
OG is a good player but I don't think he's the type of player you keep on a rebuilding team. It's like Aaron Gordon on the Magic, hell assume too much of a role on the offense and his defense will take a hit as he tries to do too much. That's basically what happened to Grant too.
Someone like that should be on good teams with established offensive players so he doesn't get any ideas and just focuses on defense. Like if I'm him and I'm on the Blazers I'm taking 20 shots a game and 22 if Grant is still there cause there's no way he should be within like 5 attempts of me.
By masud Go To PostThe return for my superstar point guard being a guy that's going to hit unrestricted free agency in a year would scare the crap out of me as a small market team that's not going to be any good for the foreseeable future. But do you.You're projecting
Just because Brunson did this to the Mavs doesn't mean it happens to other teams
I'd just live with Thybulle playing the 3 and then make sure my tank is strong when Flagg and Boozer drafts roll around
OG's best bet financially would be to sign a deal that allows him to opt out when he's like 28 for another big payday. He doesn't need a contract from Portland for that.
OG locked up on a contract next summer would be a far more valuable asset to Toronto than he is now. But Toronto's seriously considering trading him for the very risk that I'm talking about. That extra year from the team with his rights doesn't mean much when he most likely isn't going to be playing out this next contract without renegotiating for a new one first.
By reilo Go To PostI'm still not convinced Masai has the balls – I think he really disliked the fanbase's reaction to losing a beloved player like Derozan and then seeing Kawhi walk away even after a 'chip. He's got PTSD, for sure.
BUT, if he were to have the balls, the OG package and Nurk for Ayton swap with some picks thrown into it is what I would prefer. I also want to keep OG, I think Portland has lacked a SF of that caliber for almost a decade now.
Fuck scorched earth, it rarely works unless you're the Spurs. And noone else is the Spurs.
This is what I prefer too. As much as I'm loathe to admit it you probably don't get a whole mess of picks for Dame so you're better off flipping him for useful players.
If your starting lineup is Scoot, Simons, Anunoby, Ayton, Grant with Thybulle and Sharpe off the bench you're in a really damn good place. Provided you believe in your youngsters turning into all-stars in a couple years at any rate. If not you just flip your starting wings in a couple years for picks.
Not too worried about getting OG to sign a new contract either - for the money he'd be looking at, any other team that can offer it would be in the same place or worse than the Blazers.
By masud Go To PostOG locked up on a contract next summer would be a far more valuable asset to Toronto then he is now. But Toronto's seriously considering trading him for the very risk that I'm talking about. That extra year from the team with his rights doesn't mean much when he most likely isn't going to be playing out this next contract without renegotiating for a new one first.This is a superstar / all-star player mentality. Dude's like OG don't want to Schroder themselves anymore. He's gonna take the extension if the money is there.
Hardly anyone goes into FA anymore to get their money unless it's absurd overpay ala FVV or Brown and even then those deals are rare.
By Christberg Go To PostNot too worried about getting OG to sign a new contract either - for the money he'd be looking at, any other team that can offer it would be in the same place or worse than the Blazers.You don't think teams would create cap space for OG? Hell you could do it for cheaper than his asking price would be right now...
By reilo Go To PostHardly anyone goes into FA anymore to get their money unless it's absurd overpay ala FVV or Brown and even then those deals are rare.You're right but that's my point. Hardly anyone hits fa but OG will be, guaranteed. You don't think a bunch of teams are going to do whatever they can to try to sign him out right?
They'll be interested in signing him but the extension will still be more money / years than he'll be offered in FA.
I also don't see Portland trading for him without a wink-wink with his agent on a contract extension first.
I also don't see Portland trading for him without a wink-wink with his agent on a contract extension first.
Also LeBatard today with the "anonymous scout tells me that Portland is crazy for valuing OG over Herro!" is hilarious.
1) How many scouts did he have to talk to for that take? Is the scout on Miami, perhaps?
2) Makes me think there's plenty of real smoke with Toronto
3) Why the fuck would Portland care what another scout thinks?
4) Ultimately it comes across as doing hilarious damage control if Lillard doesn't go to Miami
1) How many scouts did he have to talk to for that take? Is the scout on Miami, perhaps?
2) Makes me think there's plenty of real smoke with Toronto
3) Why the fuck would Portland care what another scout thinks?
4) Ultimately it comes across as doing hilarious damage control if Lillard doesn't go to Miami
By masud Go To PostYou don't think teams would create cap space for OG? Hell you could do it for cheaper than his asking price would be right now…
30-35 million in cap space if you're trying to contend right away? No way, you trade picks and rotation guys for players like that. I know the Knicks have been sitting on Fournier forever but you're gonna need to dump young guys too. If you're doing that you're better off trading when that player is already under contract instead.
AKA let the guy get paid then trade for him a year and a half or so from now.
By reilo Go To PostThey'll be interested in signing him but the extension will still be more money / years than he'll be offered in FA.This isn't correct though the most he can extend for before hitting free agency next summer is 4 years 116 million he can get more for the same amount of years in free agency. It's the FVV situation all over again.
If your argument is OG would want to be on a contender, which contender has the capspace to give OG that type of money?
Houston was able to do it because they were at the salary floor and had a ton of capspace by being a bad team. They decided enough with tanking.
Houston was able to do it because they were at the salary floor and had a ton of capspace by being a bad team. They decided enough with tanking.
By Christberg Go To Post30-35 million in cap space if you're trying to contend right away? No way, you trade picks and rotation guys for players like that. I know the Knicks have been sitting on Fournier forever but you're gonna need to dump young guys too. If you're doing that you're better off trading when that player is already under contract instead.Sure let's use the Knicks as an example. Right now from a value standpoint it would probably cost RJ Barrett and multiple picks to trade for OG. Next summer all it would cost to sign him out right would be salary dumping RJ Barrett.
AKA let the guy get paid then trade for him a year and a half or so from now.
How are the Knicks gonna sign him outright? You're over the cap next summer with Hart's recent extension.
EDIT: You'd have to renounce Quickly and Grimes and probably salary dump RJ before FA begins.
EDIT: You'd have to renounce Quickly and Grimes and probably salary dump RJ before FA begins.
By reilo Go To PostHow are the Knicks gonna sign him outright? You're over the cap next summer with Hart's recent extension.The Knicks have $125 mil on the books next year and the projected salary cap is 136. Dumping RJ would be enough but it would make things tricky to keep IQ.
EDIT: You'd have to renounce Quickly and Grimes and probably salary dump RJ before FA begins.
edit: And obviously dumping RJ would require back channel knowledge of OG's interest in the Knicks and how much it would take to sign him. Who's OG's representation again?
By masud Go To PostThe Knicks have $125 mil on the books next year and the projected salary cap is 136. Dumping RJ would be enough but it would make things tricky to keep IQ.You're forgetting about capholds mang. IQ's is like $12mil.
edit: And obviously dumping RJ would require back channel knowledge of OG's interest in the Knicks and how much it would take to sign him. Who's OG's representation again?
IQ needs at least 25 million a year, probably a bunch more than that and I'd want to get that extension done ASAP while he's still a bench guy. That kld is good.
By reilo Go To PostYou're forgetting about capholds mang. IQ's is like $12mil.https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/cap/2024/
You're at $129mil after you waive Fournier.
Then you need to add $12.5mil and $10.65mil for IQ's and Hartenstein's capholds.
Simply dumping RJ isn't enough. Even if you salary dump RJ, renounce IQ and Hartenstein, you're now at ... $127mil in salary. And if the cap jumps to $145mil (big jump!) you're still $11mil short for a 116/4 contract.
Dick, OG, filler and a first would be a nice deal for Portland imo. Problem is that filler has to add up to like 15 million. That's why I assumed Portland would want Trent to make the salary work--more value than Porter/Achiwua/Thad Young/etc.
It's also why I said the Raptors would look a bit rough if OG/Dick/Trent are outgoing.
Dame/Will Barton/Otto Porter/Siakam/Poeltl
Schroder off the bench and that's it......
It's also why I said the Raptors would look a bit rough if OG/Dick/Trent are outgoing.
Dame/Will Barton/Otto Porter/Siakam/Poeltl
Schroder off the bench and that's it......
By Kibner Go To PostScottie Barnes is still on the roster.
idk why I keep forgetting to mention him
I do think Dame/Barnes/Siakam/Poeltl is sus in terms of spacing though