By domino Go To Postthey're quoting a 1992 interview in playboy magazine lol.
By Kibner Go To PostFuck you, Graham:DYs boys are the worst
By Kibner Go To PostFuck you, Graham:😂😂
By Old King Rob Go To Post"They traded WHAT for Gobert? Ask them for everything"The Durant ask was actually before the Gobert trade, according to Wolves writers. They can't trade Towns to Brooklyn because of Simmons and the rules surrounding rookie contract extensions, but Edwards isn't on the table for anything. If you believe the Wolves thought process here, the Gobert trade is about helping Edwards and ensuring that he continues to win (so he doesn't ask for a trade in a couple years like they always do).
By rodeoclown Go To PostThe Durant ask was actually before the Gobert trade, according to Wolves writers. They can't trade Towns to Brooklyn because of Simmons and the rules surrounding rookie contract extensions, but Edwards isn't on the table for anything. If you believe the Wolves thought process here, the Gobert trade is about helping Edwards and ensuring that he continues to win (so he doesn't ask for a trade in a couple years like they always do).
Why you optimistic about a dude named Kermit, rodeo?
By Adam Go To PostWhy you optimistic about a dude named Kermit, rodeo?He's 20 years old and was arguably the best guy on the court in a playoff series only two months ago. Unless something happens, the sky is really the limit.
To some degree, I do get this desire to show Ant that they can be consistent winners. The Wolves have no real culture to speak of and have mostly been an afterthought in years that didn't involve Garnett or Flip.
Winning consistently is the first step to being actual contenders. That has a higher chance of opening more doors than just holding onto all those picks. Yes, they still overpaid. But it is still likely to be worth it, imo. Especially for a team and fanbase that has rarely had any kind of success. Made it to the second round once in 30 years. To the playoffs only 3(?) times in that same time period.
Just get to the playoffs and try to do something there. They can always trade KAT later to get back most of what they gave up for Gobert. Which is something they likely would have done in a year or two if they didn't make the trade for Gobert, anyway.
Just get to the playoffs and try to do something there. They can always trade KAT later to get back most of what they gave up for Gobert. Which is something they likely would have done in a year or two if they didn't make the trade for Gobert, anyway.
Having new ownership coming in and taking a swing to win is highly important. The Gobert trade might not work out but it's about as good of a swing they could've gone for.
By Kibner Go To PostWinning consistently is the first step to being actual contenders. That has a higher chance of opening more doors than just holding onto all those picks. Yes, they still overpaid. But it is still likely to be worth it, imo. Especially for a team and fanbase that has rarely had any kind of success. Made it to the second round once in 30 years. To the playoffs only 3(?) times in that same time period.Only 10 playoff appearance in franchise history: eight times during the Garnett era, but only out of the first round during the 04 season; the year of General Soreness; and then last year's club.
Just get to the playoffs and try to do something there. They can always trade KAT later to get back most of what they gave up for Gobert. Which is something they likely would have done in a year or two if they didn't make the trade for Gobert, anyway.
Marc Lore, the actual money behind the new ownership, operates under the idea that late first round picks are generally not valuable. He's big into analytics (the whole organization is now) and was lockstep with Connelly in thinking that these picks likely won't be good players, and if they want to later, they can buy their way back into the draft. Their data says that while you do sometimes get a Dejounte Murray at the end of the first round, most of the time you get Lazar Hayward.
I hope none of these fanbases are falling for this "Picks don't matter." nonsense. All they're really saying is "Our owner doesn't want to spend money on a scouting department."
Late first round picks aren't that valuable when you can just buy second round picks and get players with a similar chance of working out but for less salary.
By masud Go To PostI should ban you for this offensive material
Lets talk about it. Buy low now cause the price is going up once the season starts…
By Kibner Go To PostLate first round picks aren't that valuable when you can just buy second round picks and get players with a similar chance of working out but for less salary.Late first round picks also carry guaranteed salary. I do think the draft is important for a team like the Wolves, though: Minnesota is a small market and they're capped out. They need to be able to stock up on rotation guys on cheap contracts. It's really on ownership now to prove they're actually willing to buy back in.
By masud Go To Post
Lets talk about it. Buy low now cause the price is going up once the season starts…
Look, I can't stand KG and his dumb corny ass personality...but he put up consistency, especially in his Minny days. He averaged 50% FGs for his career, and almost never had a healthy season where he was below 47%.
Randle's fall 21-22 fall was bad.
By Kibner Go To PostLate first round picks aren't that valuable when you can just buy second round picks and get players with a similar chance of working out but for less salary.They're not that valuable if you can't draft. Ask Memphis how valuable late first round picks are. Instead of not having firsts and buying seconds you can use your seconds and firsts to move around the back of the first round to get the exact guy you want. Taking that avenue to improve your team off the table is malpractice.
2nd round picks are more valuable than late firsts these days.
If there's a guy you really want that's fallen out of the lottery, it makes more sense to pay the ransom for that particular player then instead of hoping stars align naturally
If there's a guy you really want that's fallen out of the lottery, it makes more sense to pay the ransom for that particular player then instead of hoping stars align naturally
If you can't find players worthy of the guaranteed money late first round picks get then that's says more about your organization than it does about the value of those picks.
By masud Go To PostIf you can't find players worthy of the guaranteed money late first round pick get then that's says more about your organization than it does about the value of those picks.The best teams of the season that get to pick in the late first round are most likely to be badly run organizations?
K
By Old King Rob Go To PostDon’t think masud is seriousI rarely am.
By reilo Go To PostThe best teams of the season that get to pick in the late first round are most likely to be badly run organizations?A lot of those teams in the 20s use those picks though, like Memphis who I mentioned. And a lot of those teams in the late teens and 20s are in fact not well run, look at Portland for the last decade...
K
By masud Go To PostIf you can't find players worthy of the guaranteed money late first round pick get then that's says more about your organization than it does about the value of those picks.Ehhhhh I wouldn't say that really. The cap holds of late picks means its harder to dedicate a flexible development path to guys.
Now that two ways are a thing, g league works, etc - its a lot easier to have multiple guys occupying that roster spot while also not being a persistent wedge in cap management.
By rodeoclown Go To PostLate first round picks also carry guaranteed salary. I do think the draft is important for a team like the Wolves, though: Minnesota is a small market and they're capped out. They need to be able to stock up on rotation guys on cheap contracts. It's really on ownership now to prove they're actually willing to buy back in.You are very much correct. They need to be buying those second round picks and trying to find the next players to round out their roster.
By masud Go To Post
Lets talk about it. Buy low now cause the price is going up once the season starts…
By DY_nasty Go To PostEhhhhh I wouldn't say that really. The cap holds of late picks means its harder to dedicate a flexible development path to guys.Yeah, late first round picks are a much greater money investment than second rounders or even UDFA, especially if they don't work out. If they do work out, there can be a slight cost advantage to having it be the late first round pick, but the odds of that are so low that it's better to load up on second rounders and udfa's, instead. Similar success rate and reward but much less risk.
Now that two ways are a thing, g league works, etc - its a lot easier to have multiple guys occupying that roster spot while also not being a persistent wedge in cap management.
Obviously it's not always worth it to pick in the 20s. It's about the players available in the moment not the pick. That's why having good scouting is important. The best strategy in the late 1st imo is to scout and target players you like, if there's nothing there trade the pick for future late 1sts.
Are you guys talking about late first round vs early second round? Because a team picking in at 20 would be slotted at picking at 50 and those are worlds apart in terms of draft success.
By masud Go To PostObviously it's not always worth it to pick in the 20s. It's about the players available in the moment not the pick. That's why having good scouting is important. The best strategy in the late 1st imo is to scout and target players you like, if there's nothing there trade the pick for future late 1sts.How is this any different than doing the same with second rounders? The quality of player is very similar.
By diehard Go To PostAre you guys talking about late first round vs early second round? Because a team picking in at 20 would be slotted at picking at 50 and those are worlds apart in terms of draft success.Yeah, I'm mostly talking about picks 22-38 or so. The guys after, say, pick 45 are usually worse than UDFAs that are betting on themselves.
By Kibner Go To PostHow is this any different than doing the same with second rounders? The quality of player is very similar.I'm not comparing late firsts and early seconds necessarily, I'm more challenging the idea that late firsts don't matter. But there are downsides to early seconds too. If your guy hits as a second round pick the team has significantly less control.
I don't know if anyone really means that late firsts don't matter because that would be ironic considering Gobert was a late first round pick. They are probably just arguing the gamble is worth it.
What do you reckon the difference is between a good and bad scouting department landing a rotation player from the late first round is? 5%? 10%?
The way you are phrasing the argument is as-if a good scouting department will land THAT DUDE 9/10 times and it really isn't.
A successful late first pick typically speaking is a good 5th or 6th man, on average.
The way you are phrasing the argument is as-if a good scouting department will land THAT DUDE 9/10 times and it really isn't.
A successful late first pick typically speaking is a good 5th or 6th man, on average.
By masud Go To PostI'm not comparing late firsts and early seconds necessarily, I'm more challenging the idea that late firsts don't matter. But there are downsides to early seconds too. If your guy hits as a second round pick the team has significantly less control.I even mentioned that in one of my posts!
By Kibner Go To PostYeah, late first round picks are a much greater money investment than second rounders or even UDFA, especially if they don't work out. If they do work out, there can be a slight cost advantage to having it be the late first round pick, but the odds of that are so low that it's better to load up on second rounders and udfa's, instead. Similar success rate and reward but much less risk.
---
By diehard Go To PostI don't know if anyone really means that late firsts don't matter because that would be ironic considering Gobert was a late first round pick. They are probably just arguing the gamble is worth it.Yeah, the gist of what I am saying is that you can buy early second rounders, often for just cash!, to get a similar quality of player that a late first round pick would give you. You would still need a good scouting department and player development staff to take advantage. This is a way of mitigating, but not completely alleviating, trading away a bunch of (most likely) late first round picks.
But this is a false narrative (except for cheap-ass Sarver and the Suns):
By masud Go To PostI hope none of these fanbases are falling for this "Picks don't matter." nonsense. All they're really saying is "Our owner doesn't want to spend money on a scouting department."
I'd only argue that you don't even need a guy to truly hit or take off as a second rounder lol
Its rough moving rookies on their 1st deal good or bad. Seconds? Two ways? They're basically value without any of the cap/roster commitment or risk. And if they do anything at all they're viewed as value added.
Guys like Willie and Devonte only have half of a good season to their names and they still brought in more than they took up. Then you've got all these other young guys who exist purely to massage trades into completion. Its the fact that all you have to do is develop a guy until he's potentially playable at all without demanding that 1st round rookie contract more than anything else.
It sucks waiting for a Zeke Nnaji or Josh Green to figure it out or find themselves into a trade that makes sense as they depreciate in value by the month 😂
Its rough moving rookies on their 1st deal good or bad. Seconds? Two ways? They're basically value without any of the cap/roster commitment or risk. And if they do anything at all they're viewed as value added.
Guys like Willie and Devonte only have half of a good season to their names and they still brought in more than they took up. Then you've got all these other young guys who exist purely to massage trades into completion. Its the fact that all you have to do is develop a guy until he's potentially playable at all without demanding that 1st round rookie contract more than anything else.
It sucks waiting for a Zeke Nnaji or Josh Green to figure it out or find themselves into a trade that makes sense as they depreciate in value by the month 😂
By diehard Go To Postfree agency been kinda boring after those first 2 days
Everything on hold with the KD trade stuff, but on Saturday something is gonna give cause the Pacers will have the room to sign Ayton and it sounds like they're gonna do it.
