nato doesn't have to attack anyone to be threatening
im really done with yal today lol. these fight the good fight and die well posts make me want to throw up
im really done with yal today lol. these fight the good fight and die well posts make me want to throw up
By DY_nasty Go To Postnato doesn't have to attack anyone to be threateningNo one wants the Ukrainians to die, it makes me sad to think what the Ukrainian people are going through.
im really done with yal today lol. these fight the good fight and die well posts make me want to throw up
I fucking wish NATO would step up and join the Ukrainian forces but I am not naive and fully understand why they aren't doing it, Russia has a lunatic in charge and one wrong move would trigger millions of deaths.
Putin doesn't care about anyone's life, he has shown that he doesn't how many of his citizens die without any need, he would give a fuck about how many of his enemies would die.
But this has been coming for a long time. Russian influence has been everywhere. A lot of high power US politicians have been paid and influenced by Russia, even more in the UK, even on a small country like Portugal has "accidentally" released information to Russia about Russian emigrants who protested against Russia in Lisbon.
This thread is f'ed about creating alternate narratives around simple statements involving the clear cut facts of Russia being iced out and isolated and how that might affect their moves.
I think it's important to note that Ukraine has agency in affairs here too and isn't just a puppet state of the west, even though the impressions currently in the media would have you think it's one. Too much of what is transpiring now is being viewed solely through a Cold War, antiquated lens of US vs. Russia great power fuckery that it seems like what Ukranians actually want and vote for gets swept away, if they're even mentioned at all in the historical context of the conflict. The same kind of stuff happens with Taiwan - all too often the desires and views of the actual population gets swept away in favour of US vs. China discourse, as if Taiwan is just another piece in a grand strategy game.
The desire for Ukraine to want to join NATO, the EU, etc. doesn't exist in a vacuum. Ditto with Russia's fears of NATO and US-led military alliances have reasons behind them - Putin cited the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in one of his speeches the other day as one example of NATO's misdeeds. In the most recent election people voted overwhelmingly so with closer ties to the west and Europe and these were also catalysts for the Orange Revolution and the 2014 revolution and ultimately, I think Putin can't handle that, and is the main reason for the invasion.
If we establish that there's widespread democratic legitimacy in Ukraine moving closer to the west, okay, then it's important to note that these things must have came out of somewhere. That somewhere being that Ukraine and Russia have a very complicated relationship, way longer than the relationship between NATO and Russia and that relationship has increasingly become more and more worrisome for Ukraine. Ukrainians at large want NATO and EU integration and to move further away from Russia and control their own destiny. I think it's pretty telling in Putin's recent speeches that he doesn't even view it as a legitimate state but a historical accident created by Lenin.
You can tell from the dude's rhetoric and writings that he views Ukrainians and Russians as one people and that NATO integration for Ukraine represents something a lot more abstract than simply a military alliance, but rather the endgame of the decoupling of Ukraine from Russia. I do think NATO is playing a big part in the reasons for the Russian invasion but those reasons are more due to fear of losing Ukraine forever rather than anything NATO has specifically done or even really a fear of NATO.
The desire for Ukraine to want to join NATO, the EU, etc. doesn't exist in a vacuum. Ditto with Russia's fears of NATO and US-led military alliances have reasons behind them - Putin cited the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in one of his speeches the other day as one example of NATO's misdeeds. In the most recent election people voted overwhelmingly so with closer ties to the west and Europe and these were also catalysts for the Orange Revolution and the 2014 revolution and ultimately, I think Putin can't handle that, and is the main reason for the invasion.
If we establish that there's widespread democratic legitimacy in Ukraine moving closer to the west, okay, then it's important to note that these things must have came out of somewhere. That somewhere being that Ukraine and Russia have a very complicated relationship, way longer than the relationship between NATO and Russia and that relationship has increasingly become more and more worrisome for Ukraine. Ukrainians at large want NATO and EU integration and to move further away from Russia and control their own destiny. I think it's pretty telling in Putin's recent speeches that he doesn't even view it as a legitimate state but a historical accident created by Lenin.
You can tell from the dude's rhetoric and writings that he views Ukrainians and Russians as one people and that NATO integration for Ukraine represents something a lot more abstract than simply a military alliance, but rather the endgame of the decoupling of Ukraine from Russia. I do think NATO is playing a big part in the reasons for the Russian invasion but those reasons are more due to fear of losing Ukraine forever rather than anything NATO has specifically done or even really a fear of NATO.
What actually has NATO done? They're an abstract concept that exists to sow problems rather than prevent them.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostThis thread is f'ed about creating alternate narratives around simple statements involving the clear cut facts of Russia being iced out and isolated and how that might affect their moves.
The sphere of influence perspective isn’t being dismissed, it was the first thing on the menu. Putin wanting NATO to fuck off from Bulgaria, Romania, just roll it all back to late 90s, bend Turkey kisses from Syria etc
But maybe at this time playing strategy like we are talking about neutral actors in a board game just isn’t the wave. They don’t weigh the same. You ask what could Russia have done different? What could NATO have done different? Netflix and chill? Ignore all intelligence saying Russia about to make moves?
It’s horrifying, how do you manage this relationship? If you don’t give they take, if you give they double take.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostI think it's pretty telling in Putin's recent speeches that he doesn't even view it as a legitimate state but a historical accident created by Lenin.
He’s on some binge in recent speeches, I wonder how time is increasingly becoming a factor in his decision making.
Im subscribing to the simplest narrative;
- Ukraine and Russia break up;
- Ukraine starts looking towards the West;
- West likes Ukraine, and asks it to get it together;
- Ukraine shows signs of democracy;
- Putin fearing for his grip and control of his domestic population, due to the Russian people perhaps wanting some of that sweet Democracy Ukraine is on, decides to invade Ukraine and bring it back under it's sphere of influence; and
- Russian's see what is happening to Ukraine and STFU, don't dare revolt.
I mean Putin has done this soooooooo many times. It works. It's tried and true. It's what keeps him in control of Russia.
Obviously there are so much more nuances in-between, but this is basically it, why make it more complicated and give reason to Putin?
- Ukraine and Russia break up;
- Ukraine starts looking towards the West;
- West likes Ukraine, and asks it to get it together;
- Ukraine shows signs of democracy;
- Putin fearing for his grip and control of his domestic population, due to the Russian people perhaps wanting some of that sweet Democracy Ukraine is on, decides to invade Ukraine and bring it back under it's sphere of influence; and
- Russian's see what is happening to Ukraine and STFU, don't dare revolt.
I mean Putin has done this soooooooo many times. It works. It's tried and true. It's what keeps him in control of Russia.
Obviously there are so much more nuances in-between, but this is basically it, why make it more complicated and give reason to Putin?
By Not Go To Postoutdated map. they're aiming for portland too now
thanks, fred and carrie
So west Texas it is
I’ve seen a couple people on the religious right suggest this. The amount of people politicizing the cause of this war is wild.
Edit: like we all have our disagreements here, but the disagreements are in good faith. Shit is wild out there though. Feel like you can’t trust half the shit being reported
Edit: like we all have our disagreements here, but the disagreements are in good faith. Shit is wild out there though. Feel like you can’t trust half the shit being reported
By Fenderputty Go To PostAnother day, another supporting piece of evidence that Twitter needs to start charging people per tweet
LMAO
I know this isn’t a serious person but this take lol
By WoodenLung Go To PostI am sure Germany will 'consider it'As of yesterday, Hungary was the only holdout.
By LFMartins86 Go To PostAs of yesterday, Hungary was the only holdout.
Let's see them do it then, and not just consider it
wooden plays company of heroes and cs
he knows what he speaks of, true master tactician of war
listen to his lullaby
he knows what he speaks of, true master tactician of war
listen to his lullaby
Despite my big knowledge of Russia through Csgo, I don't know shit. Was more me doubting it will happen. Especially from Germanys side. But would be a nice surprise.
Now if valve could ban them from Csgo... And freeze their skins.
Now if valve could ban them from Csgo... And freeze their skins.
Russia's borders shared with NATO... That NATO encirclement, that NATO encroachment, that NATO expansionism, that NATO threat...
For additional reading, an opinion:
For additional reading, an opinion:
By LFMartins86 Go To PostAs of yesterday, Hungary was the only holdout.
When was this actually said? This from today from reuters repeats the same old not very committed:
"Germany, which has the EU's biggest trade flows with Russia, is also open to banning Russia from SWIFT, but must calculate the consequences for its economy, Finance Minister Christian Lindner said on Friday."
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/west-moves-closer-cutting-russias-swift-access-says-lithuania-2022-02-26/
I send out SWIFT messages at work every few days or so to complete equity trades and it's kind of blowing my mind seeing it featured so prominently on the news lol.
SWIFT is always in play during any conflict, you hear it all the time when following Syria, Libya, Iran, Ukraine, Etc.
Seeing far right American politicians and tankies on Twitter united in their support of Putin has been something.
in an UNPRECEDENTED move, the germans actually force their government to get their heads out of their ass.
never thought I'd see the day.
never thought I'd see the day.
My gf's father was on the last KLM flight out of Moscow. He works for a multinational company at their Moscow office. Had just gone back to Moscow on Sunday too.
Previously her whole family lived in Kyiv as expats for 6 years, when her father was working for a different company. She's understandably been quite upset.
Previously her whole family lived in Kyiv as expats for 6 years, when her father was working for a different company. She's understandably been quite upset.
By cRrusheR Go To PostCrypto on the up?
Money leaving the Russian market for other markets.
Probably a good way to avoid sanctions???
By Fenderputty Go To PostNot that crazy.
Crazy. Three house republicans went to this. Chanting Putin
They need a savior...
I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Q was a psyop... the shift to pro Putin was startlingly fast
