Reckon I should jump into BCS or rewatch BB first?
I've started watching For All Mankind. You have to hand it to the Commies and Nazi rocket scientists!
I've started watching For All Mankind. You have to hand it to the Commies and Nazi rocket scientists!
By Punished Go To PostReckon I should jump into BCS or rewatch BB first?
I've started watching For All Mankind. You have to hand it to the Commies and Nazi rocket scientists!
If you remember BB well enough, no need to rewatch. Some cameos and shit might pass you by but the broad strokes are fine.
i loved BB when it aired, so much so that i didn't want to taint it with a spin-off. that's why i never got into BCS. glad it turned out to be a great show.
now i just need the time and energy to freshen up on what happened in BB and watch BCS.
now i just need the time and energy to freshen up on what happened in BB and watch BCS.
If you haven’t seen El Camino that’s a good watch too. Not essential but a nice coda to BB and a fun little thriller.
By n8 dogg Go To PostI think what I love most about the success of this show is that it wasn't big and exciting and showy for the most part.
Just rewatching BB now (at the end of S2), and I think I was surprised how big it was when it was at its peak because for the most part, those early seasons are a lot of minutiae and detail. Three episodes pass between Walt killing Krazy-8 and even getting back into the game in Season 1. Season 2 focuses a lot on Walt doing shit like ripping out rotted wood or Skyler's flirtation with Beneke (and fucking Marie's shoplifting). Now, the reason this works is because it's so well-acted, the craft (especially from S2 onwards) is impeccable, the writing is wonderful, etc., but it isn't the rollercoaster ride that a lot of S4 and S5 ended up being, and it's ultimately those two seasons that people remember when they think of Breaking Bad: the crazy hijinks, the dead Nazis, the fireworks, so to speak.
But save for maybe one or two episodes of super sustained high tension (maybe some of the early stuff with Tuco, Bagman in S5 and Point and Shoot/the latter half of Waterworks in S6), Better Call Saul was always more measured, always more glacial. It reminded me a lot of Deadwood in that regard, where there was such severe detail in the set-up of things, where what mattered most was always, always character. And that's what is so exciting about how much everyone is in love with the ending of it, and how it's had its real moment in the sun - it is not the typical kind of show that does that.
Breaking Bad's peak of popularity came when it was train heists and shootouts (and well deserved, because the final season is fantastic and I'm a big fan of the finale, even if I do think it's perhaps a little too neat). Game of Thrones got bigger and bigger the more it leaned into dragons and ice zombies (although it was easily at its best back in S1/2). But Better Call Saul didn't get bigger. It just got better. It honed in more and more on the characters, it improved - unbelievably so, given how good it was at the end of BB - on a craft level, Odenkirk and Seehorn continued to bring their A-game every episode, and it became a huge success because it was just stunningly, undeniably brilliant.
And with a perfect ending, to boot. Not a foot wrong. In regards to the mission statement of the show, its themes, and most importantly its characters, it absolutely nailed the landing.
BCS is a perfect refinement of the BB in literally every aspect apart from one intentional aspect, scale.
The writing, the cinematography, the performances, the characters, the callbacks. Everything is better in BCS, you can really tell how much better and experienced they are at making TV watching BCS compared to early BB (at least).
The scale is the one thing BB has over BCS but of course that's intentional and not a negative, but I can see why the stakes and the scale of BB make people prefer it. I personally see them as extensions of one another, to me they're the same exact show and this season tying into BB so much more just solidified that. 14 Years of incredible storytelling, I mean that's literally very nearly half my entire life. My entire adult life I've been invested in this universe. Fuck.
By Willkiller Go To PostBCS is a perfect refinement of the BB in literally every aspect apart from one intentional aspect, scale.
The writing, the cinematography, the performances, the characters, the callbacks. Everything is better in BCS, you can really tell how much better and experienced they are at making TV watching BCS compared to early BB (at least).
The scale is the one thing BB has over BCS but of course that's intentional and not a negative, but I can see why the stakes and the scale of BB make people prefer it. I personally see them as extensions of one another, to me they're the same exact show and this season tying into BB so much more just solidified that. 14 Years of incredible storytelling, I mean that's literally very nearly half my entire life. My entire adult life I've been invested in this universe. Fuck.
you still owe me twenty quid you lickle cunt
By n8 dogg Go To Postyou still owe me twenty quid you lickle cunt
I hope, one day, to give you it in person
I loved seeing Mike, Chuck and Walt. Although Chuck seemed forced.
I guess I was expecting something much more tragic like a shanking instead of getting a highschool lunchtime beat dropped on the bus.
Acting and interactions between most the characters was spotless and having Carol Burnett in the last few episodes was brilliant.
Neither BB or BCS finales really did it for me. Loved both series to death, and I have watched BB multiple times and I am sure I will watch BCS another time.
BB was a let down because going from the cartel crazy to Gus perfect plans to some Nazis yea-haw boys was disappointing ( I do like Meth Damon tho.)
BCS was kind of the same let down. Saul didn't seem to have anything to really sell the feds, he didn't know where Jesse is at and they found Walter White dead at the Nazi meth lab, the few cartel connections he did business with were all dead. So, even more perfect than BB's ending…
Still a great show and sad to see it over,
I guess I was expecting something much more tragic like a shanking instead of getting a highschool lunchtime beat dropped on the bus.
Acting and interactions between most the characters was spotless and having Carol Burnett in the last few episodes was brilliant.
Neither BB or BCS finales really did it for me. Loved both series to death, and I have watched BB multiple times and I am sure I will watch BCS another time.
BB was a let down because going from the cartel crazy to Gus perfect plans to some Nazis yea-haw boys was disappointing ( I do like Meth Damon tho.)
BCS was kind of the same let down. Saul didn't seem to have anything to really sell the feds, he didn't know where Jesse is at and they found Walter White dead at the Nazi meth lab, the few cartel connections he did business with were all dead. So, even more perfect than BB's ending…
Still a great show and sad to see it over,
By blackace Go To PostSaul didn't seem to have anything to really sell the feds, he didn't know where Jesse is at and they found Walter White dead at the Nazi meth lab, the few cartel connections he did business with were all dead. So, even more perfect than BB's ending…
Still a great show and sad to see it over,
Final spoilers: He was the only one they could hold responsible, though, given everything you said. Mike dead, Lydia dead, Gus dead, Walt dead, Jesse gone… law has to hold someone accountable for the death of Hank and Gomie. This is the only option they had, irrelevant of what they could get from Saul.
By n8 dogg Go To PostFinal spoilers: He was the only one they could hold responsible, though, given everything you said. Mike dead, Lydia dead, Gus dead, Walt dead, Jesse gone… law has to hold someone accountable for the death of Hank and Gomie. This is the only option they had, irrelevant of what they could get from Saul.
I just don't see the leverage he has for the law. Why are they giving him any breaks especially when they have nothing else and he pops up again after being on run. It's not like he turned himself in or cooperated with the feds when they could have used him. Not to mention, Kim tied him to other crimes. I don't know…For a show so smart, it doesn't add up to me. But maybe I missed something.
By blackace Go To PostI just don't see the leverage he has for the law. Why are they giving him any breaks especially when they have nothing else and he pops up again after being on run. It's not like he turned himself in or cooperated with the feds when they could have used him. Not to mention, Kim tied him to other crimes. I don't know…For a show so smart, it doesn't add up to me. But maybe I missed something.
They’re giving him leverage because they need to hold someone responsible BUT know that it is very likely he’d be able to swing one member of a jury so don’t feel comfortable taking it to trial. There’s obviously some dramatic license in him getting down from Life+190 to 7 before he reneges on the deal, but it simultaneously showed Saul’s gift for the gab and also the necessity politically of having someone from Heisenberg’s empire incarcerated.
By n8 dogg Go To PostThey’re giving him leverage because they need to hold someone responsible BUT know that it is very likely he’d be able to swing one member of a jury so don’t feel comfortable taking it to trial. There’s obviously some dramatic license in him getting down from Life+190 to 7 before he reneges on the deal, but it simultaneously showed Saul’s gift for the gab and also the necessity politically of having someone from Heisenberg’s empire incarcerated.
Don't forget they didn't go from Life+190 to 7, they went from 30 to 7. That was the deal the DA offered at the beginning of the sitdown, they knew and appreciated the situation they were in but once they saw Saul do this thing…they were in a position where they had to make the deal attractive
By n8 dogg Go To PostThey’re giving him leverage because they need to hold someone responsible BUT know that it is very likely he’d be able to swing one member of a jury so don’t feel comfortable taking it to trial. There’s obviously some dramatic license in him getting down from Life+190 to 7 before he reneges on the deal, but it simultaneously showed Saul’s gift for the gab and also the necessity politically of having someone from Heisenberg’s empire incarcerated.
They have everything, All of his documents, everything. The guy was not in Heisenberg's empire. He was working for the cartel helping meth be shipped nationally and internationally. Heisenberg worked for them. This is a RICO case…
I get it, it is a show and yeah a bunch of shit isn't believable like when Lalo missed slow motion Gus at point blank because he kicked a construction light plug. But it is fairly weak plot to end a brilliant show on..
By Willkiller Go To PostDon't forget they didn't go from Life+190 to 7, they went from 30 to 7. That was the deal the DA offered at the beginning of the sitdown, they knew and appreciated the situation they were in but once they saw Saul do this thing…they were in a position where they had to make the deal attractiveHow would the DA having someone dead to rights be shook of a guy with no legal team trying to grift a jury?
It was just to set up his court stunt as well, which makes it even weaker..
By Willkiller Go To PostDon't forget they didn't go from Life+190 to 7, they went from 30 to 7. That was the deal the DA offered at the beginning of the sitdown, they knew and appreciated the situation they were in but once they saw Saul do this thing…they were in a position where they had to make the deal attractive
Oh yes you’re right.
By blackace Go To PostThey have everything, All of his documents, everything. The guy was not in Heisenberg's empire. He was working for the cartel helping meth be shipped nationally and internationally. Heisenberg worked for them. This is a RICO case…
I get it, it is a show and yeah a bunch of shit isn't believable like when Lalo missed slow motion Gus at point blank because he kicked a construction light plug. But it is fairly weak plot to end a brilliant show on..
Depends whether they can hold the cartel responsible. Gus is gone. Does anyone know how they would connect it to Madrigal? Much easier to go after Heisenberg’s consigliere because he is present and available.
As for no legal team - he didn’t need one! He’s Saul Goodman. He has proven himself an incredibly good lawyer over the course of both shows, with his failings being moral ones, not competency
I dunno, it worked flawlessly for me. This wasn’t a show that needed that high stakes tragedy. It was always smaller, quieter.
By inky Go To PostKim is definitely my favorite over both shows. What a character.
Jimmy > Kim > Jesse
Love Cranston but man I hate Walt. BB rewatch ATM and he is just a mega cunt all the time lol.
By n8 dogg Go To PostOh yes you’re right.He was tied to the cartel before he was to White. It is not even a high stakes, it is a plot armor thing for me. It was a cute little bow just to let him get sentenced on his own terms. Seven years isn't shit for what Saul was a part of, and if that is the only guy you can grab because everybody is dead or gone… They are going to really try to get him. I guess I was super letdown because everyone was saying how perfect it was but 15 mins in or so I am struggling with this massive elephant in the room about how the DA folded to one dude and advisory counsel with a website like this 🤣https://www.oakley4defenselaw.com/
Depends whether they can hold the cartel responsible. Gus is gone. Does anyone know how they would connect it to Madrigal? Much easier to go after Heisenberg’s consigliere because he is present and available.
I dunno, it worked flawlessly for me. This wasn’t a show that needed that high stakes tragedy. It was always smaller, quieter.
By inky Go To PostKim is definitely my favorite over both shows. What a character.Gus > Jesse > Hank > Saul
Lalo >>>>>>>
I loved the finale. The beginning with Saul on the run was one of the most intense sequences on either show and the ending was probably the most heartbreaking TV moments ever. Vince Gilligan and these guys are the best. Also I loved Walt's flashback emphasizing what an insufferable nerd he is
I loved the finale. The beginning with Saul on the run was one of the most intense sequences on either show and the ending was probably the most heartbreaking TV moments ever. Vince Gilligan and these guys are the best. Also I loved Walt's flashback emphasizing what an insufferable nerd he is
By blackace Go To PostHow would the DA having someone dead to rights be shook of a guy with no legal team trying to grift a jury?
It was just to set up his court stunt as well, which makes it even weaker..
I buy the set up. He's a very competent lawyer, he's very good at convincing people of things. And in their world Heisenberg's story would be huge national news, I can see a jury member or two believing his intimidation story. At the very least I can see why a deal would be preferable for the state, 30 years at his age would still mean him living out most if not all of his live in jail. What does an extra 200 years really mean?
By Willkiller Go To PostI buy the set up. He's a very competent lawyer, he's very good at convincing people of things. And in their world Heisenberg's story would be huge national news, I can see a jury member or two believing his intimidation story. At the very least I can see why a deal would be preferable for the state, 30 years at his age would still mean him living out most if not all of his live in jail. What does an extra 200 years really mean?25 years is considered life, so that makes sense. 7 years you could get for 2nd degree armed robbery.
Being good at convincing people is nice, but that's not all being a lawyer is tho… Something they painstakingly showcased throughout the series with Chuck.
Anyways, just seemed like they wrote themselves into a corner and said fuck it let's just get him into court 🤷🏾♂️
Lalo's energy and performance was amazing. They finally got a lad who could speak Spanish too which was a nice plus.
By inky Go To PostLalo's energy and performance was amazing. They finally got a lad who could speak Spanish too which was a nice plus.Lol yeah they cast Americans and Canadians in all the main roles until Dalton
By Not Go To PostThis is Jonathan Banks what the hell??He's great in Beverly Hills Cop
I had only seen Tony Dalton in one other thing before BCS. A TV series called Los Simuladores (based on an Argentinian series) where a group of guys help people with impossible situations by staging and executing little heist-like sequences to fool others. Tony Dalton played the mastermind behind the group. He's always had that amazing presence. It was pretty good, but only got a couple seasons from what I remember.
Before streaming, Mexican TV was allergic to good shows. If it wasn't an established foreign sitcom, some telenovela type drama, teen drama or sketch comedy it just didn't hit or last.
Before streaming, Mexican TV was allergic to good shows. If it wasn't an established foreign sitcom, some telenovela type drama, teen drama or sketch comedy it just didn't hit or last.
“One thing that we all realized very slowly was none of us are that adept at writing, you know, rousing trial scenes.”translation: Marvel said more explosions
Obviously I don't practice in the US but to my eyes BCS has some of the more accurate legal stuff I've come across on TV, especially the internal business and politics of being a lawyer inside a firm is tremendously well observed.
I think the point is even at its most accurate it's still not perfect
If they made a slow-paced legal Marvel show it would probably be "interesting," and that's kryptonite to their brand
If they made a slow-paced legal Marvel show it would probably be "interesting," and that's kryptonite to their brand
By s y Go To PostThe BCS trial scenes are a hell of a lot more "correct" than most lawyer/courtroom dramas though.Is that John Krasinski?
Cool script page from the BCS finale:
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/613Screenshot-for-Alan.jpg?w=911
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/613Screenshot-for-Alan.jpg?w=911
By Not Go To PostI think I'm going to stay up all night Friday binging Westworld season 4I liked it well enough ... until the finale, which is terrible. Have fun.
Hope it surprises me
man... the bcs finale was great. you can tell that they've grown a lot coming off of bb, especially considering that this season may have been the best one whereas bb's last season was perhaps its weakest (in retrospect, with the biker gang, it felt like they didn't really know that to do after gus died).
i may be the only one who feels this way, but the bb callbacks with walt and jesse felt more like fanservice, but, ultimately, unnecessary.
i hold this series in very high esteem.
looking forward to what gilligan does next.
and i hope seehorn gets some great roles after this one.
i may be the only one who feels this way, but the bb callbacks with walt and jesse felt more like fanservice, but, ultimately, unnecessary.
i hold this series in very high esteem.
looking forward to what gilligan does next.
and i hope seehorn gets some great roles after this one.
By bud Go To Postman… the bcs finale was great. you can tell that they've grown a lot coming off of bb, especially considering that this season may have been the best one whereas bb's last season was perhaps its weakest (in retrospect, with the biker gang, it felt like they didn't really know that to do after gus died).Makes sense with Gus because Gus wasn't even supposed to be Gus as we know him. Tuco was supposed to be the main villain and Gus wasnt supposed to be much but a bit character.
i may be the only one who feels this way, but the bb callbacks with walt and jesse felt more like fanservice, but, ultimately, unnecessary.
i hold this series in very high esteem.
looking forward to what gilligan does next.
and i hope seehorn gets some great roles after this one.
Better Call Saul
I feel like Walt/Mike/Chuck showing up in the last episode worked brilliantly for the theme of the episode.
Mike's conversation he is honest with himself and wants to go back before he broke back as he is still carrying the guilt of his son's death while Saul can only think about money at the moment, Saul cannot even talk about his own life much less something he regrets.
Walt's conversation shows that even after literally destroying his life by his actions he still thinks of himself as a victim, but still has some level of self awareness to know that you can't go back into the past. Meanwhile Saul is a bit more honest than before and goes with Mike's route, going back to the first moment that he "broke bad" so to speak, but still refusing to go back into his actions as Jimmy, his brother, his ex, etc.
Then we reach Chuck and we realize that is the actual moment Saul would have liked to go to, a fork in the road where if he had just stayed and talked to his brother they may have let go of all the anger they had for each other and bonded over the law. We are shown that Chuck was the original owner of the Time Machine book Saul had in his mansion which means even 6 years later Saul had Chuck in his memory but refusing to admit it.
Which all leads to his personal murder of the Saul persona at the end, finally admitting to himself that he should've tried harder with Chuck and he's done being anything but Jimmy.
Incredible series
I feel like Walt/Mike/Chuck showing up in the last episode worked brilliantly for the theme of the episode.
Mike's conversation he is honest with himself and wants to go back before he broke back as he is still carrying the guilt of his son's death while Saul can only think about money at the moment, Saul cannot even talk about his own life much less something he regrets.
Walt's conversation shows that even after literally destroying his life by his actions he still thinks of himself as a victim, but still has some level of self awareness to know that you can't go back into the past. Meanwhile Saul is a bit more honest than before and goes with Mike's route, going back to the first moment that he "broke bad" so to speak, but still refusing to go back into his actions as Jimmy, his brother, his ex, etc.
Then we reach Chuck and we realize that is the actual moment Saul would have liked to go to, a fork in the road where if he had just stayed and talked to his brother they may have let go of all the anger they had for each other and bonded over the law. We are shown that Chuck was the original owner of the Time Machine book Saul had in his mansion which means even 6 years later Saul had Chuck in his memory but refusing to admit it.
Which all leads to his personal murder of the Saul persona at the end, finally admitting to himself that he should've tried harder with Chuck and he's done being anything but Jimmy.
Incredible series