By reilo Go To PostThe supply argument doesn't address that local governments are purposefully denying new development because their NIMBY constituents are telling them they don't want it.I can never tell if you are agreeing with me or arguing against me reilo😂
It's purposefully limited because the established home owner class (yes, class) doesn't want new construction because density it impedes on their privacy/individuality and their inflated market value.
And that's before we touch the racist/anti-poor/anti-homeless aspects of it all.
"We just need to build new homes!!" addresses none of it because the impediments to new developments from the haves.
I agree with what you said.m9
By Lunatic Go To PostI can never tell if you are agreeing with me or arguing against me reilo😂Agreeing just expanding my thoughts haha
I agree with what you said.m9
By reilo Go To PostAgreeing just expanding my thoughts hahaTru say 👊🏾
Yea the game is rigged and if you aren't born rich, have the capital available and/or sophistication to move through the rigged game you are truly fucked. Dead serious the rich play at a completely different level from the rest of us. The entire market place is set up to give them the advantage.
By FortuneFaded Go To Post"us"Sorry I considered us equal my lord.
By Lunatic Go To PostSorry I considered us equal my lord.Sure Mr. VP
I'm not one to tell people to pull themselves up their bootstraps but become a fucking quant already FF
By FortuneFaded Go To PostSure Mr. VPSorry massa did I speak beyond my station?
By reilo Go To PostI'm not one to tell people to pull themselves up their bootstraps but become a fucking quant already FFFucking right? Dude is a brilliant mathematician but would rather wallow in sorrow taking pop shots at everyone doing well rather than exceed. He has all the base stats in his favour.
He's even an immigrant by choice and not by fucked up circumstance I don't get it I don't get it
He already did the hard part which is acquire the skill and credibility
He already did the hard part which is acquire the skill and credibility
What sucks is when stuff does get developed the price tag or rent is absolutely ridiculous and can only be purchased by people looking to rent it out or park some cash into property investment. Or it's just shit like the Millennium Tower in SF (which for the record could absolutely could use some multi-story apartments but not luxury highrise condos) on fucking landfill. I shocked myself today because I knew it had sunk a lot of inches and is leaning but I didn't realize it's 18 inches sunk now. Ridiculous lol.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostWhere is sy when you need him? I need backup. It's currently 2 on 1.Sy ain't going to help you here. If he had your stats he would be high and dry like Smokey.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostWhere is sy when you need him? I need backup. It's currently 2 on 1.
sy is presently eating hot dogs fried in motor oil, but he'll return your call once (if) he gets out of the ER.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostWhat sucks is when stuff does get developed the price tag or rent is absolutely ridiculous and can only be purchased by people looking to rent it out or park some cash into property investment. Or it's just shit like the Millennium Tower in SF (which for the record could absolutely could use some multi-story apartments but not luxury highrise condos) on fucking landfill. I shocked myself today because I knew it had sunk a lot of inches and is leaning but I didn't realize it's 18 inches sunk now. Ridiculous lol.150 unit apartments with 20% for affordable housing near public transit in the suburbs? Drakeno.jpg
High riser on Billionaire's Row with $100m condos? Drakeyes.jpg
Sohois: supply problem
By reilo Go To Post150 unit apartments with 20% for affordable housing near public transit in the suburbs? Drakeno.jpgYou're really using the world's biggest NIMBY hellhole as your example? San Fran is the best example in the world of the disastrous effect of zoning, building restrictions, parking minimums, "neighbourhood character", and endless planning appeals. Of course it's a supply problem, it is practically impossible to build housing in that city. Developers aren't going to bother building sensible apartment blocks in commuter zones because why would they bother with the hassle of turning an abandoned laundromat into high density housing when they'll just get dozens of appeals about how vital the building is to the local area and have to grease hundreds of palms?
High riser on Billionaire's Row with $100m condos? Drakeyes.jpg
Sohois: supply problem
Bunch of gammon knobends threw a fit in Maidenhead because of plans to turn an ugly, unused and uncared for field into affordable housing and got it shelved. Somehow the town centre is having no issues knocking down every single building and putting flats up, to the point that I don't think it'll even be much of a town centre by 2030 or so, more a residential area with a train station and a supermarket on opposite edges.
Looking at house prices in Norfolk is depressing, hope to move there when I have no more reason to be in the South East. 3-bedroom, double-gardened new houses there legit cost less than shitty old 2-bedroom flats here.
Looking at house prices in Norfolk is depressing, hope to move there when I have no more reason to be in the South East. 3-bedroom, double-gardened new houses there legit cost less than shitty old 2-bedroom flats here.
By Perfect Blue Go To Post🤣🤣
Damn even Varoufakis is compromised now. Sad!
This is a fucking terrible idea and is only about trying to whitewash the atrocities and human rights abuses perpetrated by the British in Northern Ireland.
By Hitch Go To PostBunch of gammon knobends threw a fit in Maidenhead because of plans to turn an ugly, unused and uncared for field into affordable housing and got it shelved. Somehow the town centre is having no issues knocking down every single building and putting flats up, to the point that I don't think it'll even be much of a town centre by 2030 or so, more a residential area with a train station and a supermarket on opposite edges.Similar thing happened here. A neighborhood was complaining about a parking lot being torn down for it, they kept referring to the parking lot as a pillar of the community lol.
Looking at house prices in Norfolk is depressing, hope to move there when I have no more reason to be in the South East. 3-bedroom, double-gardened new houses there legit cost less than shitty old 2-bedroom flats here.
By Cleff Go To PostThis is a fucking terrible idea and is only about trying to whitewash the atrocities and human rights abuses perpetrated by the British in Northern Ireland.Lord Bew:
Later, Bew served as an adviser to David Trimble.[2] Trimble and Bew are both signatories to the statement of principles of the Henry Jackson Society,[12] which has been characterised as a neoconservative organisation.[13]
Bew's son:
In 2019, Bew joined the Number 10 Policy Unit under Prime Minister Boris Johnson.[3]
By sohois Go To PostYou're really using the world's biggest NIMBY hellhole as your example? San Fran is the best example in the world of the disastrous effect of zoning, building restrictions, parking minimums, "neighbourhood character", and endless planning appeals. Of course it's a supply problem, it is practically impossible to build housing in that city. Developers aren't going to bother building sensible apartment blocks in commuter zones because why would they bother with the hassle of turning an abandoned laundromat into high density housing when they'll just get dozens of appeals about how vital the building is to the local area and have to grease hundreds of palms?You're fucking myopic. Just stop.
Or keep digging, let's see where this goes
Yooooooo
Defenders and people who care for Harris are getting frantic. When they're annoyed, some pass around a recent Onion story mocking her lack of more substantive work, one with the headline, "White House Urges Kamala Harris To Sit At Computer All Day In Case Emails Come Through." When they're depressed, they bat down the Aaron Sorkin-style rumor that Biden might try to replace her by nominating her to a Supreme Court vacancy. That chatter has already reached top levels of the Biden orbit, according to one person who's heard it
By reilo Go To PostYou're fucking myopic. Just stop.I love the idea that somewhere there's a perfect market doing this all correctly, but unfortunately particular markets aren't able to function because ... those markets keep churning out 'byproducts' that prevent them from working perfectly.
Or keep digging, let's see where this goes
He thinks the only thing stopping developers from building affordable housing is zoning laws and not the fact that nobody wants to build these homes to begin with because there's no profit margin worth chasing.
The solution needs to be completely taken out of the free markets hands and become an infrastructure project run by the government just like healthcare.
The solution needs to be completely taken out of the free markets hands and become an infrastructure project run by the government just like healthcare.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostSohois has done this same spiel with me before about housing and I just throw up my hands lol.He always gives off the air of someone who's dug a little too deeply into the axioms to realize it's all just professorial frottage.
By reilo Go To PostHe thinks the only thing stopping developers from building affordable housing is zoning laws and not the fact that nobody wants to build these homes to begin with because there's no profit margin worth chasing.Zoning laws like mandatory sizes and parking minimums are definitely an issue worth looking at but the solution of just up and removing them like Sohois wants doesn’t really make sense at all. The results in the short term would create a mad dash to grab land and sky rocket the cost of land and long term would just create a supply of incredibly unaffordable and low quality homes anyway, because now the developers would need to be turn a profit on the overpriced land that they bought.
The solution needs to be completely taken out of the free markets hands and become an infrastructure project run by the government just like healthcare.
Like you said market “solutions” to housing aren’t possible. The elasticity of something like housing and healthcare or any other basic human need is nonexistent and can’t be looked at like the market for a new smart phone or video game console.
You know what SF is really good at? Turning parking lots into expensive condos/apartmenrs. It has not lowered the cost of housing. Only a once in a hundred year pandemic has.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostSupreme court vacancy lol. Breyer's just waiting for the perfect time...!
Yooooooo
Elaborate pageant
By reilo Go To PostYou know what SF is really good at? Turning parking lots into expensive condos/apartmenrs. It has not lowered the cost of housing. Only a once in a hundred year pandemic has.My favourite parking lots are the free ones that subsidize suburban car culture around a train station. Park and ride is horrendous. You see so many of them here in the Toronto area and they’re all used to funnel suburbanites downtown during the week days with the trains not even operating on the weekends.
Look at this shit. And this is one of the smaller ones! 💀
Yea Bay Area/West Coast at large has the same shit. Local governance and citizens especially don't want that parking lot replaced with apartments because being near public transit would "bring in the undesirables", so they put in a giant parking lot that filters out those that cannot afford a car and are willing to put up with the bullshit.
"Oh we got public transit"
"Great, where do I go to use it?"
"So, you drive here and park, then..."
"Oh we got public transit"
"Great, where do I go to use it?"
"So, you drive here and park, then..."
By Perfect Blue Go To PostZoning laws like mandatory sizes and parking minimums are definitely an issue worth looking at but the solution of just up and removing them like Sohois wants doesn’t really make sense at all. The results in the short term would create a mad dash to grab land and sky rocket the cost of land and long term would just create a supply of incredibly unaffordable and low quality homes anyway, because now the developers would need to be turn a profit on the overpriced land that they bought.I don't believe I ever said that you should just tear up all the regulations and let people do what they want. I did mention on the previous page that I would like for the greenbelt to be rolled back in the UK and house building to be 'easier', but that's about it. The current system in the UK is just a pure benefit to the major house builders and has led to a practical oligopoly.
Like you said market “solutions” to housing aren’t possible. The elasticity of something like housing and healthcare or any other basic human need is nonexistent and can’t be looked at like the market for a new smart phone or video game console.
But to answer everyone else, you can look at places that have lax regulations and simple zoning, and places that have complicated regulations and zoning, and the former offer much more reasonable house prices and stable or very low growth in house prices. Tokyo is the most oft cited example for this though sadly I can no longer find a good graph showing house price indices compared to other cities; but you can just look at indices and see that this is the case.
To be honest I really didn't think YIMBY politics would prove controversial here. And I really can't believe anyone would propose complete government control of housing when you have the entire Soviet Union and China just sitting there
WASHINGTON — A year before the polls open in the 2022 midterm elections, Republicans are already poised to flip at least five seats in the closely divided House thanks to redrawn district maps that are more distorted, more disjointed and more gerrymandered than any since the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.this is fine
But to answer everyone else, you can look at places that have lax regulations and simple zoning, and places that have complicated regulations and zoning, and the former offer much more reasonable house prices and stable or very low growth in house pricesthis is not true, ffs
By sohois Go To PostAnd I really can't believe anyone would propose complete government control of housing when you have the entire Soviet Union and China just sitting thereB r a h
This is some dishonest ass shit. No one is calling for Marxist-Leninist-style land reform ffs. I want something similar to Singapore where 90% of the population lives in government developed and sold public housing. That’s it. You don’t need “complete government control of housing” to do that.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostB r a hI am.
This is some dishonest ass shit. No one is calling for Marxist-Leninist-style land reform ffs. I want something similar to Singapore where 90% of the population lives in government developed and sold public housing. That’s it. You don’t need “complete government control of housing” to do that.
It would be cool and fun.
By Punished* Go To PostI am.Okay, well have at it with Sohois then on the merits of that system vs. what we have now.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostB r a hAside from the few actual Marxists that are on the forum, Reilo did post this above:
This is some dishonest ass shit. No one is calling for Marxist-Leninist-style land reform ffs. I want something similar to Singapore where 90% of the population lives in government developed and sold public housing. That’s it. You don’t need “complete government control of housing” to do that.
The solution needs to be completely taken out of the free markets hands and become an infrastructure project run by the government just like healthcare.
I don't believe Reilo is a marxist but that wording does imply complete government control to me. I don't think he would mean private public partnerships either as those are always complete shit.
For the Singapore proposal, there are a few issues I think:
1. Singapore is a tiny city state with far less complicated housing demand than large countries
2. The Singapore government is very very competent and you just cannot expect anywhere else to be able to copy them. Much as the 'perfect free market' that fixes everything never seems to come along, so too the 'perfect benevolent dictator' is not something you would gamble on happening to the rest of the world.
3. Singapore housing is pretty ugly? This one is complicated, because you can easily point out the mcmansions and new build shitholes that plague the West, but I would argue that in a freer development country/region you can always buy land and build your own house to your satisfaction (tbf to Singapore they simply don't have the available land for that to be possible)
the government taking all the land and giving everyone free housing? lets go
*giving everyone they like
*giving everyone they like
By Xpike Go To Postthe government taking all the land and giving everyone free housing? lets goSo going from one illusory system of an equal playing field to another, only this time more people are housed?
*giving everyone they like
By sohois Go To PostFor the Singapore proposal, there are a few issues I think:1. I think the model could absolutely be applied to individual cities where the people actually live. Logistically it would be easier too because no major city in the west has Singapore’s population density and so we have a lot more land to work with. This could potentially open up different kinds of housing like duplexes, low-rise walk ups etc. rather than just the high rise buildings of Singapore’s HDBs or to a lesser extent, the Hong Kong public housing projects that began in the 50’s (which also happened in an extremely low-tax, surplus budget environment so it is possible to do all this on a relatively shoe string budget).
1. Singapore is a tiny city state with far less complicated housing demand than large countries
2. The Singapore government is very very competent and you just cannot expect anywhere else to be able to copy them. Much as the 'perfect free market' that fixes everything never seems to come along, so too the 'perfect benevolent dictator' is not something you would gamble on happening to the rest of the world.
3. Singapore housing is pretty ugly? This one is complicated, because you can easily point out the mcmansions and new build shitholes that plague the West, but I would argue that in a freer development country/region you can always buy land and build your own house to your satisfaction (tbf to Singapore they simply don't have the available land for that to be possible)
2. I don’t think this is the right place to get into the weeds of the PAP, the myth of LKY, and the pros and/or cons of performance legitimacy politics and competitive authoritarian regimes. I’ll just say they recognized early on the importance of housing large amounts of people and did that cheaply and efficiently. To think we can’t do the same is just silly to me.
3. Plenty of HDBs are gorgeous looking. Just take a quick Google search. I also don’t really care about the aesthetics as much but I guess this would tie into my first point of there being a wider option of housing where we have more space to build. A place to live is a place to live.
By Not Go To PostSo going from one illusory system of an equal playing field to another, only this time more people are housed?lets gooooo
vote blue no matter what sounds more appealing if i at least get a free room out of it
By sohois Go To PostI don't believe Reilo is a marxist but that wording does imply complete government control to me. I don't think he would mean private public partnerships either as those are always complete shit.The free market isn't willing to take this on, so who else would do it??????????????????????????? Why do you think Section 8 even exists?
By Perfect Blue Go To PostChoose red, get a bed
