Cameron doesn't play with established properties so he's not beholden to maintain executive standards on representation of characters.
By Daz Go To PostCameron doesn't play with established properties so he's not beholden to maintain executive standards on representation of characters.
So here we go then, this is the issue: that the studio is a monopolising behemoth that neuters any potential creative autonomy its collaborators may have.
in a way, marvel's previs lads are the true directors of their movies.
the director on-set is more like trevor slattery.
life imitates art.
the director on-set is more like trevor slattery.
life imitates art.
Yall really think the likes of Russos, Gunn, and Tiki were brought in because of their extensive action film background? My guys, don't be fooled, they are there to rubber stamp a production line.
And you know what? By and large MCU action scenes are garbage.
It's also obvious that Disney tried to put this formula to use with the standalone Star Wars movies which is why they had so many director exits.
I'll also be blunt: MCU directors are b-tier on their best day but think they are Spielberg and Cameron tier. They don't do shit. They're not even allowed to participate in the pre-production process.
And you know what? By and large MCU action scenes are garbage.
It's also obvious that Disney tried to put this formula to use with the standalone Star Wars movies which is why they had so many director exits.
I'll also be blunt: MCU directors are b-tier on their best day but think they are Spielberg and Cameron tier. They don't do shit. They're not even allowed to participate in the pre-production process.
By n8 dogg Go To PostSo here we go then, this is the issue: that the studio is a monopolising behemoth that neuters any potential creative autonomy its collaborators may have.I think the problem is trying to tie 20 films together with so maany different visions and ideas would have been impossible.
Yeah, the MCU is an assembly line with a unified vision from start to finish - thats why it worked and SW didn't. Once Rian came in with a different vision to Abrams it fell apart (I actually like TLJ) but whatevs.
Lots of people go on about Ragnarok being pure unfiltered Taika but... is Taika really that identifiable a director? All his films have different qualities; wouldn't say that film is particularly emblematic of his work.
Shane Black real sneaked a bit of individuality under the MCU banner.
Shane Black real sneaked a bit of individuality under the MCU banner.
By n8 dogg Go To PostShane Black real sneaked a bit of individuality under the MCU banner.And they ended up killing standalone IM movies and Shane Black will never direct an MCU movie again. And clearly he has no qualms doing superhero movies as he's helming Doc Savage -- which isn't under MCU.
It's also no wonder Edgar Wright exited Ant-Man.
By LabouredPatriot Go To PostAvatar isn’t any better than many of the MCU movies mind you, Cameron is capable of a lot better.
Oh, I agree, it's not great. But he's got autonomy over it.
By reilo Go To PostAnd they ended up killing standalone IM movies and Shane Black will never direct an MCU movie again. And clearly he has no qualms doing superhero movies as he's helming Doc Savage – which isn't under MCU.
It's also no wonder Edgar Wright exited Ant-Man.
Yep. I guess some Gunn is in GOTG, but I think it's a bit more generic than sometimes given credit (especially the first).
Black Panther has some challenging stuff for a mainstream superhero movie I suppose, all hail Killmonger.
By reilo Go To PostAnd they ended up killing standalone IM movies and Shane Black will never direct an MCU movie again. And clearly he has no qualms doing superhero movies as he's helming Doc Savage – which isn't under MCU.Out of 20 films 2 directors dropped out - thats an OK retention rate.
It's also no wonder Edgar Wright exited Ant-Man.
The Russos had more say in everything that happened in the MCU since the their Captain America movie than anyone else. You'd know this if you did bare minimum research. Russos, Markus and McFeely, etc. pretty much wrote and decided what was gonna happen in all of the crossover movies.
It's not SFX artists and some "mysterious" Marvel suits setting it all in stone and putting some rando behind the camera. These people literally wrote and directed those parts, that's why they were given the keys to pretty much everything after Winter Soldier. When a studio doesn't do that, you end up with Suicide Squad and Patty Jenkins's Wonder Woman.
But I'm not interested in defending Marvel honor's on this or whatever. You guys can think whatever you want. They are the McDonald's of the movie industry, we all know this. How are we still having these takes 30 movies like it's some indictment on the art form in is beyond me.
It's not SFX artists and some "mysterious" Marvel suits setting it all in stone and putting some rando behind the camera. These people literally wrote and directed those parts, that's why they were given the keys to pretty much everything after Winter Soldier. When a studio doesn't do that, you end up with Suicide Squad and Patty Jenkins's Wonder Woman.
But I'm not interested in defending Marvel honor's on this or whatever. You guys can think whatever you want. They are the McDonald's of the movie industry, we all know this. How are we still having these takes 30 movies like it's some indictment on the art form in is beyond me.
By Daz Go To PostOut of 20 films 2 directors dropped out - thats an OK retention rate.It's not about how many dropped out but who.
But you don't need to look to MCU, you can take to standalone SW movies that had a ton of director turnover because they tried to follow this process.
By inky Go To PostThe Russos had more say in everything that happened in the MCU since the their Captain America movie than anyone else. You'd know this if you did bare minimum research. Russos, Markus and McFeely, etc. pretty much wrote and decided what was gonna happen in all of the crossover movies.Lol no they didn't
It's not SFX artists and some "mysterious" Marvel suits setting it all in stone and putting some rando behind the camera. These people literally wrote and directed those parts, that's why they were given the keys to pretty much everything after Winter Soldier. When a studio doesn't do that, you end up with Suicide Squad and Patty Jenkins's Wonder Woman.
But I'm not interested in defending Marvel honor's on this or whatever. You guys can thing whatever you want. They are the McDonald's of the movie industry, we all know this. How are we still having these takes 30 movies like it's some indictment on the art form in is beyond me.
Nobody saying it was a random VFX artist man, but there's an entire production studio dedicated to planning out these movies year in advance which includes writers and producers overseeing the project.
There's also a ton of indie directors that have basically said the same thing: story, plot, and scenes were mapped out and they were there to just hit record, so they passed or never even took the call.
Russos are fucking nobodies, prior to MCU they made budget television.
There's also a ton of indie directors that have basically said the same thing: story, plot, and scenes were mapped out and they were there to just hit record, so they passed or never even took the call.
Russos are fucking nobodies, prior to MCU they made budget television.
No surprise that a lot of the MCU is soulless cookie cutter, much like Disney's output of Star Wars (except TLJ ofc)
one thing i will give zack snyder is that his dcu movies are pure unadulterated snyder shit.
praise be.
praise be.
And the people I mentioned, Russos, Markus & McFeely who've had credit in most of those movies were crucial part of that group, that's why they've been kept along the longest. Of course there is a "team" of producers squarely interested in continuity and ensuring that all movies keep the same feel, and hit certain notes, making sure Thanos shows up in Guardians, etc. Of course they are conveyor belt movies. Of course this process works better when most of the people behind the camera are agreeable and don't cause a fuss.
But in between all that, people like the Russos have been given the task to come up with how most of that happens. Black Panther is also the perfect example of how that process works out. The director is allowed to do their character work which includes writing dialogue and scenes with their actors and make decisions, and stuff like the 1v1 BP and Killmonger are generic enough sequences that sure, were already decided and where he had little input and can be fitted into almost any plot.
Like I said, there is no honour to defend here. If you make one of these movies, you know what you get, but to pretend they have no creative say in anything or not even an important part behind their success is beyond ridiculous. The best Marvel movies you still see the director's touch coming through, as much as you can with products like these.
But in between all that, people like the Russos have been given the task to come up with how most of that happens. Black Panther is also the perfect example of how that process works out. The director is allowed to do their character work which includes writing dialogue and scenes with their actors and make decisions, and stuff like the 1v1 BP and Killmonger are generic enough sequences that sure, were already decided and where he had little input and can be fitted into almost any plot.
Like I said, there is no honour to defend here. If you make one of these movies, you know what you get, but to pretend they have no creative say in anything or not even an important part behind their success is beyond ridiculous. The best Marvel movies you still see the director's touch coming through, as much as you can with products like these.
By Punished* Go To PostI'm amused that Chloe Zhao, as the next hot auteur, is doing a Marvel film.
Sounds shit as well. You don’t hire two of the Stark boys if you intend on making a good film.
that's a wild statement considering how bad the vast majority of action is in movies these days anyway
I know we're on our monthly "mahvel sux" bender but like.... the bar is low and it's not because of disney
I know we're on our monthly "mahvel sux" bender but like.... the bar is low and it's not because of disney
By Daz Go To PostOut of 20 films 2 directors dropped out - thats an OK retention rate.
There's been a bunch of people turn Marvel movies down because they don't want to work on production line crap.
By Punished* Go To PostI'm amused that Chloe Zhao, as the next hot auteur, is doing a Marvel film.
Meh. She's making pretty movies with nothing to really say. "The Rider" and "The Songs My..." on rewatch are both empty and lacked a certain cultural critique that stems from Zhao romantic views of the Americana conservative country folk's lifestyle.
Thats fine - the MCU is not a blank canvas for auteurs to express themselves.
They are several 200 million dollar inter-connected projects designed for mass consumption.
You want to be a sensitive artiste? go get A24 to bankroll your whims.
They are several 200 million dollar inter-connected projects designed for mass consumption.
You want to be a sensitive artiste? go get A24 to bankroll your whims.
By Daz Go To PostThats fine - the MCU is not a blank canvas for auteurs to express themselves.im sayin lol
The 200 million projects designed for mass consumption.
You want to be a sensitive artiste? go get A24 to bankroll your whims.
Watched Batman:Mask of the Phantasm, Batman and Mr Freeze, and Batman: The Killing Joke
First is good, second is okay, third is rubbish. Entire graphic novel squeezed into an hour, to the point that nothing is dwelt on for long enough to get its hooks in. Needed to be at least twice as long to work imo. Prologue completely pointless. Would have loved it to be good, oh well. Hamill's Joker is obviously great, at least.
First is good, second is okay, third is rubbish. Entire graphic novel squeezed into an hour, to the point that nothing is dwelt on for long enough to get its hooks in. Needed to be at least twice as long to work imo. Prologue completely pointless. Would have loved it to be good, oh well. Hamill's Joker is obviously great, at least.
By Hitch Go To PostWatched Batman:Mask of the Phantasm, Batman and Mr Freeze, and Batman: The Killing JokeCheck out Under The Red Hood. Best once since Mask of the Phantasm imo.
First is good, second is okay, third is rubbish. Entire graphic novel squeezed into an hour, to the point that nothing is dwelt on for long enough to get its hooks in. Needed to be at least twice as long to work imo. Prologue completely pointless. Would have loved it to be good, oh well. Hamill's Joker is obviously great, at least.
By Hitch Go To PostWatched Batman:Mask of the Phantasm, Batman and Mr Freeze, and Batman: The Killing JokeNo return of the joker?
First is good, second is okay, third is rubbish. Entire graphic novel squeezed into an hour, to the point that nothing is dwelt on for long enough to get its hooks in. Needed to be at least twice as long to work imo. Prologue completely pointless. Would have loved it to be good, oh well. Hamill's Joker is obviously great, at least.
Gonna watch Under the Red Hood, Return of the Joker and Year One I think
edit: jesus phantasm is 28 years old
edit: jesus phantasm is 28 years old
By n8 dogg Go To Postone thing i will give zack snyder is that his dcu movies are pure unadulterated snyder shit.We are going to have 4h of pure unleashed Snyder next month.
praise be.
It's going to be an epic trainwreck, can't wait.
I have a friend that isn't very up to date in terms of movies and is always asking me when the Snyder Justice League is coming out and we should watch it in my house.
By Hitch Go To PostGonna watch Under the Red Hood, Return of the Joker and Year One I think
edit: jesus phantasm is 28 years old
I had it on VHS, watched it a ton of times. Probably my favourite Batman movie ever, no other captured the weight of Bruce's promise to his parents like Phantasm, that scene in the cemetery is so powerful.
Re watched man of steel and batman v superman (I know) and they’re worse and messier than I remember.
B v S in particular is an argument for how Marvel do their homogeneous shit.
Also Snyder visually wrecks everything with excessive grain, vignetting and at times CA, like he’s making a 2015 video game.
What I’m trying to say is I need to learn how to spend my time more productively.
B v S in particular is an argument for how Marvel do their homogeneous shit.
Also Snyder visually wrecks everything with excessive grain, vignetting and at times CA, like he’s making a 2015 video game.
What I’m trying to say is I need to learn how to spend my time more productively.
By LabouredPatriot Go To PostRe watched man of steel and batman v superman (I know) and they’re worse and messier than I remember.What cut of Batman VS Superman did you watch?
B v S in particular is an argument for how Marvel do their homogeneous shit.
Also Snyder visually wrecks everything with excessive grain, vignetting and at times CA, like he’s making a 2015 video game.
What I’m trying to say is I need to learn how to spend my time more productively.
The theatrical or the ultimate edition?
I wouldn't say either are good but UE is much more well put together.
But my opinion isn't exactly the best because I find the mess that is B Vs S so much more interesting than the assembly line of Marvel movies (and I am a sucker for comic book movies).
Snyder has some great looking shoots, he has some fucking weird ideas about the characters he is handling but it definitely has his look about it.
I think of him like a pretentious Michael Bay at times.
I'd say the DC films also all try to look the same (I've never seen Shazam so don't even @ me), all try to ape the Zack Snyder style, with the slow mo and everything, which makes all the movies worse by default
