By Daz Go To PostIt's not as simple as Abby did nothing wrong, that's… No.Joel murders her dad and prevents a cure from being made. Abby was never interested in killing anyone else. She had like 30 opportunities to kill Tommy and continually let him live. Meanwhile they literally kill all of her friends. All she has is Lev now. Ellie then puts a knife to Lev's throat because it's not enough that you killed all of her other friends, gotta kill kids now.
Joel saved her life and she brutally tortures and kills him. Yeah, she could have killed Ellie and Ellie could have killed her too. Fact is both Abby and Ellie are cunts.
Lev pretty much through his actions all through the game got his sister to amputee status and eventually killed. Pretty much no one is redeemed in this whole thing. I hope there is no part three
I kept letting Abby choke me out instead of fighting back bc I hoped the game would just let Ellie die. I never liked Joel so I didn't give a shit that he died.
Welp
That’s the end of the game
Plenty of dlc content or a PS5 Miles type side story
all Joel had to do was change his damn name and he’d still be alive. I would assume people get emotional if their dad/father figure was murdered and you’d want revenge and never got closure? Idk, the story and characters are great but the ending is eh in terms of emotional stuff
That’s the end of the game
Plenty of dlc content or a PS5 Miles type side story
all Joel had to do was change his damn name and he’d still be alive. I would assume people get emotional if their dad/father figure was murdered and you’d want revenge and never got closure? Idk, the story and characters are great but the ending is eh in terms of emotional stuff
By aka Espi Go To PostJoel murders her dad and prevents a cure from being made. Abby was never interested in killing anyone else. She had like 30 opportunities to kill Tommy and continually let him live. Meanwhile they literally kill all of her friends. All she has is Lev now. Ellie then puts a knife to Lev's throat because it's not enough that you killed all of her other friends, gotta kill kids now.The scales were definitely not balanced - all I am saying both parties had legit grievances. You don't have to like Joel to understand the fire stoked in Ellie when she watches a loved one tortured and killed in front of her eyes.
I kept letting Abby choke me out instead of fighting back bc I hoped the game would just let Ellie die. I never liked Joel so I didn't give a shit that he died.
And no, Abby only lets Tommy live once - that was in the first encounter, she pushes him off a pier in their second and shoots him in the face pointblank in the third with intent to kill.
Ellie is not a good person and neither is Abby, in fact the only person you could call neutral good is maybe Jesse and maybe Lev's sister? but then again she was in a cult of sociopaths.
In the end, everyone got what they deserved for being assholes - except the pregnant girl and Jesse.
By aka Espi Go To PostLol at this story. I think someone posted they had tears and there was that clown on twitter saying he was going to spend time recovering.
Ellie is an asshole and Abby did nothing wrong, yet Ellie continued being a shithead bc she never grew out of her bratty teenage phase. Abby could have killed her like 3 times but didn’t want to.
Also, I remember seeing one of the accusations was that ND forced their people to watch thousands of hours of torture footage or some shit. This was like a PG-13 American movie. I’ve seen worse violence on regular TV.
Great game though. TLOU3 better be about Abby and Lev
The Fireflies essentially were going to kill an innocent girl in order to make the cure. Despite how well intentioned they were, they purposefully held back the information that she would die from Ellie. They denied her a choice in it. As such, it's attempted murder. Not only that, but they had no intentions of even bargaining with Joel or talking with him further about it, so Ellie was essentially kidnapped.
You can argue Joel should have been able to take Ellie away without killing Abby's father but he was willing to kill to prevent it from happening, and remember that Joel has no time for bullshit as there are guards about.
Let's be real, if the fireflies succeeded in making the medicine it still would't be a happy go lucky ending. Ultimately they're still just another militia out there trying to force their will on the people. A medicine would have just made them the strongest independant group in the country. I can't see them distribute it outside their own people out of good will.
Adding to that, it's crazy that so many people around Abby were killed by Ellie/Joel and their people. But on the other hand, none of those encounters would have ended in a peace offer. Every character in this game series shoots before they ask questions. It's kill or be killed in the universe Naughty Dog created. The Vita girl probably being one of the best examples of it. Basically everyone is a violent cunt and for both sides of this struggle there are events to point at to justify their path of revenge.
Adding to that, it's crazy that so many people around Abby were killed by Ellie/Joel and their people. But on the other hand, none of those encounters would have ended in a peace offer. Every character in this game series shoots before they ask questions. It's kill or be killed in the universe Naughty Dog created. The Vita girl probably being one of the best examples of it. Basically everyone is a violent cunt and for both sides of this struggle there are events to point at to justify their path of revenge.
I think the only piece of writing that doesn't add up and bothers me in either game is that the infected are not a fucking threat. It is very unbelievable to me that these lazy mushroom people caused all this disfunction.
It's a super realistic grounded game centered around a mushroom disease that corrupts your nervous system therefore keeping you alive and ambulatory indefinitely
Much like cancer
Much like cancer
What were the leaks then? Can't be arsed to go back and find them
Which ones were correct, which ones were exaggerations and which were complete nonsense?
Which ones were correct, which ones were exaggerations and which were complete nonsense?
By Hitch Go To PostWhat were the leaks then? Can't be arsed to go back and find themthe only accurate leak was the first major leak, which was 90 minutes of cutscenes, gameplay and test footage. Assuming you're done with the game:
Which ones were correct, which ones were exaggerations and which were complete nonsense?
-Joel's Death scene
-Intro sequence
-Abby's identity and her being playable.
-Ellie leaving Dina for revenge, which also confirmed that Jessie dies.
-Abby vs Ellie in the theatre in it's entirety.
-chapter list(which indicated that Ellie would torture Nora)
-2nd Joel&Ellie flashback. Which made people aware that ND was swapping and hiding models in the trailers before and after the leak lol
Basically a lot of plot points from Ellie's campaign and nothing from Abby's.
Then there were the fake leaks that spawned from the actual leak like Abby being transgender, seraphites being immune, them killing dina because she's jewish,
Cheers
The more I think about it, the more I think that (don't read unless you've finished it) Abby is pretty fucking great and ND did a brilliant job slowly making me want her to live
I don't think the story hits the highs of the first game after the first major plot point, but it hovers at a constant good quality. Plays like a dream as well, especially when you let loose with all the combat options at your disposal. The blend of action, stealth and traps is exceptional, never played a game that so effortlessly switches between them, and makes them all feel like you're supposed to be playing that way.
Unfortunately since I did survival first I probably focussed a little more on stealth than ideal, to the detriment of the action gameplay. Only used like two explosive arrows in my entire playthrough .
The more I think about it, the more I think that (don't read unless you've finished it) Abby is pretty fucking great and ND did a brilliant job slowly making me want her to live
I don't think the story hits the highs of the first game after the first major plot point, but it hovers at a constant good quality. Plays like a dream as well, especially when you let loose with all the combat options at your disposal. The blend of action, stealth and traps is exceptional, never played a game that so effortlessly switches between them, and makes them all feel like you're supposed to be playing that way.
Unfortunately since I did survival first I probably focussed a little more on stealth than ideal, to the detriment of the action gameplay. Only used like two explosive arrows in my entire playthrough .
Abby is pretty cool, if I had to choose one rampaging murderous psychopathic fuck to survive out of the 3 mains she'd be it
By /sy Go To Postthe only accurate leak was the first major leak, which was 90 minutes of cutscenes, gameplay and test footage. Assuming you're done with the game:LOOOOOL WTF?!
Then there were the fake leaks that spawned from the actual leak like Abby being transgender, seraphites being immune, them killing dina because she's jewish,
By /sy Go To PostI think the only piece of writing that doesn't add up and bothers me in either game is that the infected are not a fucking threat. It is very unbelievable to me that these lazy mushroom people caused all this disfunction.
Really? I think we'd be fucked. Runners alone are zombies that can sprint, fight, and bite.
The military would be forced into some totalitarian tactics to keep shit in order and it would result in stuff like the WLF fighting back and taking out pockets of government presence just like in the games.
spoilers
Disagree with his take on the story and the player's involvement in it but fair review overall. Matthewmatosis is always a good watch.
Disagree with his take on the story and the player's involvement in it but fair review overall. Matthewmatosis is always a good watch.
You all inferred that Ellie had tortured Nora right?
Listened to a spoiler cast earlier and they complained that it wasn't implied clearly enough, which I found fucking ludicrous. It's plain as day.
One of them also thought the first game had an easy-way-out happy ending, and seemed oblivious to the fact that Joel kinda had it coming. Acted like it was Bambi's mum being shot.
Listened to a spoiler cast earlier and they complained that it wasn't implied clearly enough, which I found fucking ludicrous. It's plain as day.
One of them also thought the first game had an easy-way-out happy ending, and seemed oblivious to the fact that Joel kinda had it coming. Acted like it was Bambi's mum being shot.
I'm not sure how anyone could infer anything else about what Ellie did lol. She even said "I Made Her Talk"
By sy Go To PostI'm not sure how anyone could infer anything else about what Ellie did lol. She even said "I Made Her Talk"Someone said it in the film thread
Things have to spelled out for people now.
I'm really busy so playing through this at a snails pace. I thought the game was over when I was with my gf on the farm with the baby. As soon as she picked up the guitar I mentally started preparing myself for more. I dont know how people play this game again straight away, the intensity is exhausting. Those moments where they get the animation spot on, little nuanced movements are probably some of my favourite parts of the game. They really hit it out the park with this one man, wonder how much more to go?
you're close
The first game was draining too - the sequel really ups the oppressiveness - the game incredible to play in the moment, but also joyless. Dont think I would ever pick it up again.
The first game was draining too - the sequel really ups the oppressiveness - the game incredible to play in the moment, but also joyless. Dont think I would ever pick it up again.
By Kidjr Go To PostI'm really busy so playing through this at a snails pace. I thought the game was over when I was with my gf on the farm with the baby. As soon as she picked up the guitar I mentally started preparing myself for more. I dont know how people play this game again straight away, the intensity is exhausting. Those moments where they get the animation spot on, little nuanced movements are probably some of my favourite parts of the game. They really hit it out the park with this one man, wonder how much more to go?Less than 2 hours to go.
I played it on survivor, the encounters, controls and combat were too good and fun to me to feel oppressed . I'd constantly restart them to try different approaches. Maybe if wasn't doing that or dying all the time, I'd have found the atmosphere more oppressive. Grounded permadeath run is at the top of my list when I get a PS5.
You're right on the animation, this game does things, not attempted in videogames outside of offline CGI. There are a couple times characters remove their clothes and it's animated so well you don't even notice that you've never seen that in another game, ever There's also a scene early on when Ellie's convicneing Tommy to go after the WLF where Tommy gets up, and he sort of clicks his jaw in frustration, insane.
Even the in game facial animation that most people will never notice is crazy, from Ellie licking her lips, Abby's vertigo to the multiple, layered breathing, systemic animations:
Made for photo mode.
The eye shader is also the best i've ever seen:
Yeah the eyes are probably the most realistic eyes I’ve ever seen in a game. No uncanny valley here lol
By sy Go To PostLess than 2 hours to go.
I played it on survivor, the encounters, controls and combat were too good and fun to me to feel oppressed . I'd constantly restart them to try different approaches. Maybe if wasn't doing that or dying all the time, I'd have found the atmosphere more oppressive. Grounded permadeath run is at the top of my list when I get a PS5.
You're right on the animation, this game does things, not attempted in videogames outside of offline CGI. There are a couple times characters remove their clothes and it's animated so well you don't even notice that you've never seen that in another game, ever There's also a scene early on when Ellie's convicneing Tommy to go after the WLF where Tommy gets up, and he sort of clicks his jaw in frustration, insane.
Even the in game facial animation that most people will never notice is crazy, from Ellie licking her lips, Abby's vertigo to the multiple, layered breathing, systemic animations:
Made for photo mode.
The eye shader is also the best i've ever seen:
Fair, I guess I've been quite engrossed by everything even having to scavenge for supplies adds to the sense of desperation for me.
Yeah i know the one you mean, some of those Tommy interactions with Ellie are insane. Someone mentioned in the video game thread that the level of detail provided by 30fps probably goes unnoticed, while maybe not entirely untrue, I think you do notice alot if not most of them and its what makes ND stand out.
They're reeeeaaaalllyyy improving on enemy encounters. I cant wait to see what kind of spaces they design with the ps5 ssd.
If you beat it on permadeath, you get the full version of through the valley by ashley johnson
if you beat grounded, you get the full "if I were to lose you" song by Baker.
if you beat grounded, you get the full "if I were to lose you" song by Baker.
Playing through this at the moment, just finished Abby and Lev going through that building next to the hospital after the sky bridge. Really, really enjoying it. Game play is fantastic, it looks stunning, and the writing is very organic. It’s a bit long but it’s great fun.
Also, I’m totally #TeamAbby.
Also, I’m totally #TeamAbby.
Legit think it's a huge achievement to toe the line so precisely that there's such a huge divide as to whether people support Abby or Ellie's decisions more
Similar to the ending of the first game
Similar to the ending of the first game
almost became team ellie again near the end, when abby was so so naive with the radio stuff near the end. that was so fucking dumb, she lived in this world of danger her whole life almost. surely she knows better. but then i remembered that ellie and her girlfriend also had the lights running at all times in the fucking theater, even after leaving a map around where she last went on a murder spree.
By RATHasReturned Go To PostIf I remember correctly. I became TeamAbby after the aquarium when Ellie killed the crew there.
Yeah, I just feel like Ellie’s drop into full blown murderous psychopath doesn’t really correlate with how pissed she was at Joel for NOT letting her die; I dunno, it doesn’t sit right with me. Abby’s just feels righter because of the fact the whole world was at stake.
Owen and Mel are shit tho. Lev and Yara > Dina and Jesse > Owen and Mel
Presumably I will spend more time with Manny soon.
Anyway, just read through this thread without clicking on spoilers and you all seem to say Abby at the hospital is nuts and that’s where I’m heading next. Excitinggg.
Forgot this is the open spoiler thread
I gradually just came to think 'why wouldn't Abby do that to Joel?'
I wish he was still alive in the series, but I'm not one of those weirdos who think it's unacceptable that his past caught up with him, and he should have been forgiven
I gradually just came to think 'why wouldn't Abby do that to Joel?'
I wish he was still alive in the series, but I'm not one of those weirdos who think it's unacceptable that his past caught up with him, and he should have been forgiven
It just never sat right with me that the narrative was so righteous that it states Ellie dying would've resulted in a cure with absolute certainty. For all the morally dubious stuff going on in this world, it undermines the complexity of anything happening there.
I hope to revisit it again, hopefully on PS5..
As for Ellie, I can't say that I blame her for what she did over the course of the game. Factor in where she was before we met her in the first game, everything that she and Joel experienced in Part 1, then what Part 2 throws at her, and well, a "revenge tour" or quest to make Abby + her crew pay for brutalizing Joel. It's not a black and white situation. This is NOT both sidzing things either.
As characters, I think that Abby showed more maturity and growth by the time we were ready for the final confrontation.
If presented with a circumstance where you were the ONE that could survive unaffected in a pandemic and offer a cure to the masses, and someone else stopped you from fulfilling your purpose as that cure, you'd be questioning why that possibility was denied.
You are now alive. The people that could have used your blood as a cure are dead and you have to go through life wondering what could have been. I mean you could end it all, but you're alive and well with no physical deficiencies, so that's not an option a person would take. Ellie has to to live with the thought in the back of your head that I'm still around, all these infected still exist, and other people are alive and still living in fear of getting infected.
That's a hell of a burden.
As for Ellie, I can't say that I blame her for what she did over the course of the game. Factor in where she was before we met her in the first game, everything that she and Joel experienced in Part 1, then what Part 2 throws at her, and well, a "revenge tour" or quest to make Abby + her crew pay for brutalizing Joel. It's not a black and white situation. This is NOT both sidzing things either.
As characters, I think that Abby showed more maturity and growth by the time we were ready for the final confrontation.
By inky Go To PostIt just never sat right with me that the narrative was so righteous that it states Ellie dying would've resulted in a cure with absolute certainty. For all the morally dubious stuff going on in this world, it undermines the complexity of anything happening there.It's what she thought. It's what a young girl truly believed to be the case. Her agency was taken away from her. Her caregiver lied about it and that led to a complicated, partially fractured their relationship with Joel.
If presented with a circumstance where you were the ONE that could survive unaffected in a pandemic and offer a cure to the masses, and someone else stopped you from fulfilling your purpose as that cure, you'd be questioning why that possibility was denied.
You are now alive. The people that could have used your blood as a cure are dead and you have to go through life wondering what could have been. I mean you could end it all, but you're alive and well with no physical deficiencies, so that's not an option a person would take. Ellie has to to live with the thought in the back of your head that I'm still around, all these infected still exist, and other people are alive and still living in fear of getting infected.
That's a hell of a burden.
By inky Go To PostIt just never sat right with me that the narrative was so righteous that it states Ellie dying would've resulted in a cure with absolute certainty. For all the morally dubious stuff going on in this world, it undermines the complexity of anything happening there.BINGO!!!!
Punished Ellie in Sant Barabara I think was my favourite Ellie. so fucking badass
By RATHasReturned Go To PostIt's what she thought. It's what a young girl truly believed to be the case. Her agency was taken away from her. Her caregiver lied about it and that led to a complicated, partially fractured their relationship with Joel.I'm not talking about Ellie's perspective tho, I'm talking about the conversations in the Abby flashbacks. It's talked about by her dad and the fireflies as a certainty that it would work.
By inky Go To PostIt just never sat right with me that the narrative was so righteous that it states Ellie dying would've resulted in a cure with absolute certainty. For all the morally dubious stuff going on in this world, it undermines the complexity of anything happening there.I don't know if adding ambiguity would add anything.
If it was ambiguous, what would that change? Joel would have still robbed the world of any chance of a cure.
The plot point that still doesn't sit right with me was Jerry being literally the only doctor on the world who could have possibly developed a cure.
Its so ridiculous to me that killing Nora and Mel, Jerry's two apprentices felt like Druckmann/Gross clumsily reaffirming that contrivance.
Mel, the apparent softie doesn't even ask about the miracle girl who is supposed to be with the dude they just hunted down?? Oh yeah, Jerry is dead so who cares
By sy Go To PostI don't know if adding ambiguity would add anything.TLoU was genuinely dumb.
If it was ambiguous, what would that change? Joel would have still robbed the world of any chance of a cure.
What doesn't sit right with me was Jerry being literally the only doctor on the world who could have possibly developed a cure.
Its so ridiculous to me that killing Nora and Mel, Jerry's two apprentices felt like Druckmann/Gross clumsily reaffirming that contrivance.
By inky Go To PostI'm not talking about Ellie's perspective tho, I'm talking about the conversations in the Abby flashbacks. It's talked about by her dad and the fireflies as a certainty that it would work.Just admit that you want the alternative version with Ellie dying and Joel killing everyone including young Abby to satisfy the crybaby userbase :P
Joel redeemed
Honestly don't think it's such a big issue. It was their big shot, there was no one else with that type of immunity and they've been researching everything for a rather long time.
Treating the cure as a certainty removes depth from the characters and the plight of desperation in a post infection world with barely functioning societies. Abby's dad is already framed in her flashbacks as a virtuous figure, and on top you are giving him an aura of infallibility that takes the attention away from the decision to operate on Ellie (kill her) without even giving her a chance to have a say.
The reality is, when you get to that point where they are discussing the cure, the narrative just accepts it was a given when the truth is there is no way he could've known even with all the prep work. As a viewer, it takes me away from the story in what's a really core complex moral decision.
I also mentioned my disagreement in the scene where the WLF and Isaac confront Abby for helping Lev. The story just want you to accept some things that are not logical and do not correspond to what the characters know of each other.
The reality is, when you get to that point where they are discussing the cure, the narrative just accepts it was a given when the truth is there is no way he could've known even with all the prep work. As a viewer, it takes me away from the story in what's a really core complex moral decision.
I also mentioned my disagreement in the scene where the WLF and Isaac confront Abby for helping Lev. The story just want you to accept some things that are not logical and do not correspond to what the characters know of each other.
By Pennywise Go To PostJust admit that you want the alternative version with Ellie dying and Joel killing everyone including young Abby to satisfy the crybaby userbase :PJoel had it coming. I don't need Druckman giving Abby's dad a "dad of the year" cup to make me sympathetic to her revenge drive.
Joel redeemed
Honestly don't think it's such a big issue. It was their big shot, there was no one else with that type of immunity and they've been researching everything for a rather long time.
Things I did today:
- the hospital. Fuck that chonk bitch. Flamethrower showed him the business
- the sniper. Tense as all balls. Dat headshot.
- the seraphite island. Whew that was fucking insane. Loved it.
Now just got back to the aquarium, very much aware of what’s waiting for me to find. Alice no
- the hospital. Fuck that chonk bitch. Flamethrower showed him the business
- the sniper. Tense as all balls. Dat headshot.
- the seraphite island. Whew that was fucking insane. Loved it.
Now just got back to the aquarium, very much aware of what’s waiting for me to find. Alice no
By n8 dogg Go To PostYeah, I just feel like Ellie’s drop into full blown murderous psychopath doesn’t really correlate with how pissed she was at Joel for NOT letting her die; I dunno, it doesn’t sit right with me. Abby’s just feels righter because of the fact the whole world was at stake.
to me, she sees him as a father figure. her being upset over him not letting her die seemed more like a teenager being mad at her dad rather than her actually hating him. and they've been through a lot together.
in a world like that, i can totally see someone like ellie doing that.