By diehard Go To PostIn a province of 58 million people, is a random person not being able to tell the difference between 900 bodies and 10,000 that far fetched?Look at it this way. If 10k people died that would mean either two things: that the infection rate is also 10x higher, at least, OR that the mortality rate is 25%. Nothing we’ve seen would indicate either of this.
I don't think its worth speculating about numbers, but from all the leaks that have come out.. the numbers they have said seem low.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI'm kinda irritated Cali for moved up in the primaries. I've never been hammered with political ads like I am by Bloomberg ads currently.
Apparently, Bloomberg is also doing this in NC. I haven't seen any, or at least don't remember seeing any.
It helps that I often watch TV on at least a slight tape delay and can fast forward through all commercials, I guess. Even sports (actually, especially sports).... let the game take care of itself for 30 minutes (or more!), then tune in and skip through all the dead spots. Commercials, time between free throws, dead balls. If you catch up, hit pause, do something else for a few minutes and come back. Can breeze through a game that way. (I watched the college football national championship game in what seemed like 30 minutes this way.)
Just looked it up, NC early voting actually starts this week (2/13). I'll be able to cast my Bernie or Warren vote this weekend.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostIt has nothing to do with trust. If the real death toll was in 5 figures we would know about it and they’d have no way of hiding that.No the fuck you wouldn't 😂
How the hell did you guys get stuck on the 10k number in the first place. All I said was that I wouldn't put it past China and that the global response to the virus doesn't match up with the data we have.
If pointing out how full of shit China is makes me wrong then I dont want to be right
If pointing out how full of shit China is makes me wrong then I dont want to be right
By DY_nasty Go To PostHow the hell did you guys get stuck on the 10k number in the first place. All I said was that I wouldn't put it past China and that the global response to the virus doesn't match up with the data we have.Because when we called Lunatic out for pulling that number out of his ass, you responded with a “because China”
If pointing out how full of shit China is makes me wrong then I dont want to be right
Maybe don’t co-sign something that you’re not actually committed to defending next time?
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostBecause when we called Lunatic out for pulling that number out of his ass, you responded with a “because China”Stop it lol
Maybe don’t co-sign something that you’re not actually committed to defending next time?
You really want to act like extrapolated discussion with precedent is unheard of here all of a sudden?
Brexit got Brits about to starve
WW3 any day now
But China lying about dead people? "no more."
If someone said they wouldn't be shocked if they heard news about 200+ killed in the US by coordinated mass shooters at a college football game or something, they are not wrong for that. No one would trip. The anti-vax discussion wasn't wrong about a community hitting a crisis point either and it's exactly what occured in Samoa before there was a heavy handed intervention. I strongly believe yal r trippin
What's ridiculous is the counter point of 'we would know'. Ask blue how long did it take for the Uighur camps to go from urban legend to reported and if anyone even has accurate numbers there for bonus points
I don't even think anyone outside of the CCP truly knows what's going on in those camps.
lol
Narrator: yes they would and they did
By Pac-12 Go To PostMeanwhile, in these here United States of AmericaWe would never.
lol
Narrator: yes they would and they did
dy's China hate coupled with his insatiable desire to beat kids would make the one child policy look like amateur hour.
By DY_nasty Go To PostStop it lol
You really want to act like extrapolated discussion with precedent is unheard of here all of a sudden?
Brexit got Brits about to starve
WW3 any day now
But China lying about dead people? "no more."
And all we’re doing is pointing out that in this instance alone, it isn’t 200+ people getting shot up because of reasons a, b, and c. Any more of this “yes, but...” game is a complete waste of time, but you do you.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostAnd all we’re doing is pointing out that in this instance alone, it isn’t 200+ people getting shot up because of reasons a, b, and c. Any more of this “yes, but…” game is a complete waste of time, but you do you.and your reasons are "china would never lie" and "we would know what's going on in china". but im just being a dick oh okay
mexico would never let cartels run rampant
india would never sign off on shitty infrastructure that will assuredly kill people by the dozen
us cops would never never shoot a black man for kicks
all of this and more is on the level of "china would never lie" and "we would know what's going on in china". we could actually make a game out of it if it wasn't so fucked up. so excuse me for being open to the idea that the severity of this particular emergency may be greatly misreported given the otherwise disproportionate international response.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostBecause when we called Lunatic out for pulling that number out of his ass, you responded with a “because China”You called me out lol? All I said was it wouldn't be surprising if it was. At this point I don't even know what you are even arguing about.
Maybe don’t co-sign something that you’re not actually committed to defending next time?
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostAnd all we’re doing is pointing out that in this instance alone, it isn’t 200+ people getting shot up because of reasons a, b, and c. Any more of this “yes, but…” game is a complete waste of time, but you do you.
I've been a silent observer of this conversation and I really just don't get where you're coming from and I'm trying. For starters, if those #'s are accurate, the mortality rate of this disease is around 2% or 20 deaths in a thousand. The flu, comparatively, is around 2 deaths per thousand roughly. That may seem like a huge percentage increase, but it's not a large number in totality. Two vs twenty per thousand ain't much. Fuck … the CDC estimated that the flu will kill 10K-60K people a year and nobody even gets a fuckin' flu shot. So if those #'s are accurate, there's almost zero reason for ANYONE to be freaking the fuck out like we all are. Why then, are governments acting like this is the next coming of the plague? Makes one wonder …
I'm left with two reasons:
A. There's so little known about this disease that we're treating it worse than it actually is as a "just in case" kinda scenario.
B. Shits worse than what's being reported.
Me … I'm fine just not giving a fuck. Went to Disneyland and didn't wear a mask. That being said … I think there's more than enough logical room for B to exist. In which case, you're getting kinda getting weirdly defensive about this.
By DY_nasty Go To Postand your reasons are "china would never lie" and "we would know what's going on in china". but im just being a dick oh okay
mexico would never let cartels run rampant
india would never sign off on shitty infrastructure that will assuredly kill people by the dozen
us cops would never never shoot a black man for kicks
all of this and more is on the level of "china would never lie" and "we would know what's going on in china". we could actually make a game out of it if it wasn't so fucked up. so excuse me for being open to the idea that the severity of this particular emergency may be greatly misreported given the otherwise disproportionate international response.
The reason I gave is that we will know how deadly this thing is because there are numerous cases observed in countries outside China already.
Unless you think Korea, Japan, Singapore, France, and Germany are all in the business of covering for the Chinese gov, then by all means, go ahead.
But hey, if any of my extended family gets infected and die, I’ll make sure to come back and tell you how very right you were.
This is not a game to me.
I don't know if you can really compare the supportive care you would get in those countries to China though, even if it is a tier 2 city.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI'm left with two reasons:You've nailed it with A.
A. There's so little known about this disease that we're treating it worse than it actually is as a "just in case" kinda scenario.
B. Shits worse than what's being reported.
Me … I'm fine just not giving a fuck. Went to Disneyland and didn't wear a mask. That being said … I think there's more than enough logical room for B to exist. In which case, you're getting kinda getting weirdly defensive about this.
Preventative medicine is a massive field for just about anything, the flu as well. There's a flu vaccine every year for this specific reason. The new coronavirus however, has no such vaccine. The virus also doesn't need to be dropping everyone it comes in contact with ASAP for there to be a coordinated global response.
By DY_nasty Go To PostHow the hell did you guys get stuck on the 10k number in the first place. All I said was that I wouldn't put it past China and that the global response to the virus doesn't match up with the data we have.It matches up precisely to the data hasphats posted earlier in the thread. Same song and dance happened with SARS, MERS, etc.
If pointing out how full of shit China is makes me wrong then I dont want to be right
By diehard Go To PostI don't know if you can really compare the supportive care you would get in those countries to China though, even if it is a tier 2 city.
Bingo … people here acting like "all things being equal" is a truism for medical care across country and region here.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostYou've nailed it with A.
Well I think so … which is why I haven't given a fuck.
And that's all fine too, but don't act like B ain't a real concern for people out there. You build a hospital on the fly to stop a disease that's barely worse than the flu you're going to get some heads turning. Especially with their governmental track record for honestly / human rights.
matches up precisely with data that has to be taken at face value. can't wait to see your thoughts on russia's election process blue
but w/e. im a jackass again
but w/e. im a jackass again
By Fenderputty Go To PostBingo … people here acting like "all things being equal" is a truism for medical care across country and region here.
Well I think so … which is why I haven't given a fuck.
And that's all fine too, but don't act like B ain't a real concern for people out there. You build a hospital on the fly to stop a disease that's barely worse than the flu you're going to get some heads turning. Especially with their governmental track record for honestly / human rights.
By DY_nasty Go To Postmatches up precisely with data that has to be taken at face value. can't wait to see your thoughts on russia's election process blueAgain, you don't need to trust or believe China for any of this. The data from other countries backs up their numbers. If you want to make the argument they're all lying together, well, idk what to say to that.
but w/e. im a jackass again
By Perfect Blue Go To PostAgain, you don't need to trust or believe China for any of this. The data from other countries backs up their numbers.
Accept, in the case of the disease getting worse as it spreads. Which is part of A. btw. If you know A to be true, you probably shouldn't be making the assumption you are.
By Fenderputty Go To PostAccept, in the case of the disease getting worse as it spreads. Which is part of A. btw. If you know A to be true, you probably shouldn't be making the assumption you are.No assumption is being made. Thus far it doesn't seem to be getting worse.
By DY_nasty Go To Post…man if something is an emotional or otherwise personal topic just say so
wtf
I mean I’d like to think having a personal connection doesn’t validate or invalidate anything I’ve said but ymmv I guess.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostNo assumption is being made. Thus far it doesn't seem to be getting worse.
Knock on wood
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostI mean I’d like to think having a personal connection doesn’t validate or invalidate anything I’ve said but ymmv I guess.nah its just unfair to not tell people something is a sensitive topic, let shit continue to fester/rub you the wrong way, then come out the cut with some "my mama was on that plane, thanks btw"
Knock on wood
nobody here dislikes you man. shit. just let it be known and ppl will respect it.... its a politics thread so naturally discussion is gonna lean towards indifferent and removed tones. no reason to pretend something isn't personal when it is.
ITT I learned that governments can act disproportionately about a relative unknown, but that we the forum poster cannot question chinas authenticity regarding said unknown without being assholes. YMMV
Didn't the CCP just keep trying to resuscitate a dead man for like a whole working day? I think skepticism thrown their way is like the natural consequence of the shit they keep pulling.
Honestly I don't think anyone here is holding any sinophobia as a large contingent of us have experienced some form of discrimination all of our lives. Just know that we aren't approaching this topic in a sinophobic lense. I understand that there are undertones of sinophobia currently prevalent in the current political climate but I was never approaching it from that viewpoint. I'm sorry if I came across that way.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostDidn't the CCP just keep trying to resuscitate a dead man for like a whole working day? I think skepticism thrown their way is like the natural consequence of the shit they keep pulling.
Yes, hasph actually linked to a page where the government prioritized political fallout and messaging as the most important aspect of this too.
By Fenderputty Go To PostITT I learned that governments can act disproportionately about a relative unknown, but that we the forum poster cannot question chinas authenticity regarding said unknown without being assholes. YMMVNice straw man. Not what I was implying at all.
By Lunatic Go To PostHonestly I don't think anyone here is holding any sinophobia as a large contingent of us have experienced some form of discrimination all of our lives. Just know that we aren't approaching this topic in a sinophobic lense. I understand that there are undertones of sinophobia currently prevalent in the current political climate but I was never approaching it from that viewpoint. I'm sorry if I came across that way.It’s okay. All fun and games until it hits you personally. I’m just glad no one’s pelted me with eggs yet.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostNice straw man. Not what I was implying at all.....is this trolling? lmao
It’s okay. All fun and games until it hits you personally. I’m just glad no one’s pelted me with eggs yet.
When a government knowingly places political messaging as the priority, you should believe them. That’s why I Follow trumps twitter
By DY_nasty Go To Post….is this trolling? lmao
Everything I've said so far comes from the contention that there are legitimate places to be skeptical and critical of how both central and local governments have handled the crisis beyond wild conspiracies about the death count. Why quarantine an entire city without sufficient beds for the infected? Why wait till Jan 7th to alert civilians when you knew on December 31st? Why was there no plan for people who need chemo, dialysis, or natal care? Why is out and out, blatant discrimination against people from Hubei allowed if not encouraged by other localities?
Lord knows there are millions of people on Chinese social media making these criticisms heard loud and clear without coming across as smug, but I digress.
And really, he didn't think too much of it when he made up a number, and that's not the end of the world, but after a couple of us have spent a number of posts explaining why we would know soon enough if they're lying or not, and there's no need for wild conjectures, I gotta question why it's so important to some people in here that they're right, and that actually, this shitshow is far worse than what's already confirmed.
Whatever. I'm done. Stressed about this enough in real life without also having to argue about it over the goddamn internet.
FWIW, and internet argumentation and snark aside, I do hope your personal connections to this are ok.
If I had to choose between Bloomberg and Pete, the choice is easy
Bloomberg gonna pick up Hillary for VP and get cooked by Trump something serious
Bloomberg gonna pick up Hillary for VP and get cooked by Trump something serious
By Pac-12 Go To PostMeanwhile, in these here United States of AmericaTrump was out there saying the coronavirus will die because spring
By inky Go To PostThat statement by itself isn't false though
Shouldn't be some harsh realization that military doesn't decide foreign policy
Edit: watched the whole interview she still doesn't get that people can't deal with her version "no, but" smh. A president can absolutely remove an ambassador as well. The problem, again, is that far too much resides in good faith barometers when it comes to executive office.
By Facism Go To PostHs2 going ahead. Goodbye local bridleways and greenpaths.It will definitely be worth the £200bn it will end up costing.