But we already knew the government was doing all of that prior to Snowden. If you didn't you were lying to yourself.
I still don't know what he actually revealed.
I still don't know what he actually revealed.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostYou guys are more mad at Snowden than the government spying on you. Priorities lads.Or maybe people could stop fuckin' venerating a dude who went to two different countries interested in our secrets.
And do we really assume he released his entire cache? We don't know what he pocketed and never let out to the public, either. It's dumb to assume he posted all of his documents and didn't keep some to himself.
damn, the edits fucked me up
but yeah like.... of all places to "just exist". The one with the guys known to openly threaten and kill their political opponents? cmon now
I get wanting more transparency and more barriers between the gov and individual rights/privacy. But there are no heroes in this
but yeah like.... of all places to "just exist". The one with the guys known to openly threaten and kill their political opponents? cmon now
I get wanting more transparency and more barriers between the gov and individual rights/privacy. But there are no heroes in this
By Laboured Go To PostTrump only respects those with a 3.0K/D and above.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostYou guys are more mad at Snowden than the government spying on you. Priorities lads.
By reilo Go To PostBut we already knew the government was doing all of that prior to Snowden. If you didn't you were lying to yourself.secret agent obvious, here to disclose the TRUTH
I still don't know what he actually revealed.
DY's just mad that mother Russia took in Snowden and not him.
You'll have your day, comrade. Until then, keep up the good work.
You'll have your day, comrade. Until then, keep up the good work.
I know when I'm discussing how deplorable the treatment is of US citizens by their government, I like to do it under the protection of two nations that are objectively worse in every regard.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostI know when I'm discussing how deplorable the treatment is of US citizens by their government, I like to do it under the protection of two nations that are objectively worse in every regard.Guy that committed act of treason would not continue to act treasonous while taking refuge with a political enemy whose leader poisons political opponents, obviously
For future reference academic interests only, if one were to need to flee the United States to avoid American prosecution, and assuming the United States government would be really, really interested in apprehending you, what good options would that person have?
By Pac-12 Go To PostForGoing to a country without an extradition treaty with the US is the obvious answer.future referenceacademic interests only, if one were to need to flee the United States to avoid American prosecution, and assuming the United States government would be really, really interested in apprehending you, what good options would that person have?
I'm sure he's a simple woodworker now. Putin would never demand anything more in exchange for indefinite asylum. And to not even consider prisoner exchanges as well? Incredible tbh
By Pac-12 Go To PostForPeople flee the country every day b. What you do to warrant being chased down is another discussion.future referenceacademic interests only, if one were to need to flee the United States to avoid American prosecution, and assuming the United States government would be really, really interested in apprehending you, what good options would that person have?
By Pac-12 Go To PostForSeek whistleblower status and not run? But that's not what he did, he released classified military intelligence documents in addition to that put soldiers in harms way. He could've provided proof of the surveillance program on citizens without doing all that extra.future referenceacademic interests only, if one were to need to flee the United States to avoid American prosecution, and assuming the United States government would be really, really interested in apprehending you, what good options would that person have?
By DY_nasty Go To PostI'm sure he's a simple woodworker now. Putin would never demand anything more in exchange for indefinite asylum. And to not even consider prisoner exchanges as well? Incredible tbhAnd let Snowden use Russia's internet unimpeded? Come on, people.
"non-life threatening" from the senator of a state with one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the country and a country with one of the worst period for how developed it is, cool story bro
I’m fine with arresting and imprisoning Snowden but only after all the NSA people involved are arrested and imprisoned. Is that fair?
By reilo Go To PostAnd let Snowden use Russia's internet unimpeded? Come on, people.Please stop attacking my fantasy
By FortuneFaded Go To PostI’m fine with arresting and imprisoning Snowden but only after all the NSA people involved are arrested and imprisoned. Is that fair?this guy
You wanna lay some shit at the feet of people start with the American public and their representatives being chill with the Pat Act, which essentially muddies/muddied all of the waters about when anything is "legal" based on the ends and "labels" rather than the means.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostI’m fine with arresting and imprisoning Snowden but only after all the NSA people involved are arrested and imprisoned. Is that fair?for what? I pull my hair out with yal regarding the patriot act and casual terrorist/criminal designations all the time. It's been handed over ages ago. You can't pick and choose when to be pissed off and selectively point at who is most responsible 😂
We got local PD disregarding need for a warrant to track people. This shit been over and done with and any solutions will need to come from SC and be presented as necessary for all. America been gave the ass up
By DY_nasty Go To Postfor what? I pull my hair out with yal regarding the patriot act and casual terrorist/criminal designations all the time. It's been handed over ages ago. You can't pick and choose when to be pissed off and selectively point at who is most responsible 😂So why are you so eager to see Snowden locked up?
We got local PD disregarding need for a warrant to track people. This shit been over and done with and any solutions will need to come from SC and be presented as necessary for all. America been gave the ass up
By FortuneFaded Go To PostSo why are you so eager to see Snowden locked up?Why are you framing this like all he did was release classified information on how the NSA was spying on its citizens? He truly didn't. He did a lot more beyond that which is conveniently ignored any time this argument is brought up.
and I don't even think you guys look at how intrusive some of these other countries are as well from the jump
a warrant in the us is a big deal. that shit is a suggestion in most other countries. hell, even australia be like "we pullin up. now."
a warrant in the us is a big deal. that shit is a suggestion in most other countries. hell, even australia be like "we pullin up. now."
By FortuneFaded Go To PostSo why are you so eager to see Snowden locked up?why you so determined to look the other way at everything else we've brought up so far...
By reilo Go To PostWhy are you framing this like all he did was release classified information on how the NSA was spying on its citizens? He truly didn't. He did a lot more beyond that which is conveniently ignored any time this argument is brought up.Snowden himself didn't "release" anything though, he gave his cache of documents to journalist organizations around the world and they released them. The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald's work won awards at the time. Are you mixing him up with Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange? The latter two threw caution at the wind and released everything publicly, Snowden got actual trained journalists to go through and redact things.
By reilo Go To PostFor a "really smart guy" Snowden behaved irrationally stupid … or so he would like us to believe.Always just assumed he thought his actions would be regarded as noble and he'd be presented as a hero as he did his book tour and sat with Colbert.
Hearing him speak he certainly sounds like he expected rockstar status.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostSnowden himself didn't "release" anything though, he gave his cache of documents to journalist organizations around the world and they released them. The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald's work won awards at the time. Are you mixing him up with Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange? The latter two threw caution at the wind and released everything publicly, Snowden got actual trained journalists to go through and redact things.Was it really difficult when you split that hair in two?
By blackace Go To PostThe UK somehow always stays bulletproof in these discussionsThat's a good shout. Tempora and the spying done at GCHQ makes the NSA look minor league in comparison. London is also the city with the most surveillance cameras I've ever been to, and I've been to China.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostSnowden himself didn't "release" anything though, he gave his cache of documents to journalist organizations around the world and they released them. The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald's work won awards at the time. Are you mixing him up with Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange? The latter two threw caution at the wind and released everything publicly, Snowden got actual trained journalists to go through and redact things.Okay - in case you didn't know, that still very much releasing information.
Doesn't matter how many awards someone won lol
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhy you so determined to look the other way at everything else we've brought up so far…Didn’t I ask you the same question?
By reilo Go To PostWas it really difficult when you split that hair in two?How is that splitting hairs? I'm just clarifying for accuracy. How should he have released those documents if not through properly trained journalists?
By Perfect Blue Go To PostHow is that splitting hairs? I'm just clarifying for accuracy. How should he have released those documents if not through properly trained journalists?He could've just handed over the thing that was relevant to him: the evidence that America was spying on its citizens.
But he didn't, he gave up the lot of it and ran to Russia. How do you not see that? He could've easily accomplished his one goal and claimed whistleblower status.
By DY_nasty Go To PostOkay - in case you didn't know, that still very much releasing information.Daniel Ellsberg did the exact same method and he's venerated as a hero and patriot.
Doesn't matter how many awards someone won lol
By Perfect Blue Go To PostDaniel Ellsberg did the exact same method and he's venerated as a hero and patriot.The man didn't run to the USSR and faced trial for his actions. He even went to the Senate Foreign Relations committee first. This is the falsest equivalency of all time.
By FortuneFaded Go To PostDidn’t I ask you the same question?and i already explained it
framing oversight problems around snowden/NSA is disingenuous when those rights were being stepped and openly eroded for decades prior. giving the guy props for stating the obvious doesn't make him a hero, especially when you disregard the mountain of other shit he did lol. its a wild leap.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostHow is that splitting hairs? I'm just clarifying for accuracy. How should he have released those documents if not through properly trained journalists?you know what classified means. cmon lol. yal getting obtuse now. some journalist doesn't understand who's in danger and who's not - they can claim to but they've got no real control over that nor their own ability to even act in their best interests. he could've got them killed too ffs....
By reilo Go To PostThe man didn't run to the USSR and faced trial for his actions. This is the falsest equivalency of all time.this is so absurd lol
there's whistleblowers out here doing the job every damn day risking it all, getting it done, going back to work, no screen time - snowden hands out more info than can even be truly quantified the runs to countries that are openly worse and he's the champ?
everyone should hate this guy lol
By reilo Go To PostThe man didn't run to the USSR and faced trial for his actions. He even went to the Senate Foreign Relations committee first. This is the falsest equivalency of all time.People forget you can be a whisteblower and not give Russia/China sensitive information.
By reilo Go To PostHe could've just handed over the thing that was relevant to him: the evidence that America was spying on its citizens.He was trying to get to Ecuador from Russia but his plane wouldn't land in Cuba and because of that became stuck in Russia. And Russia is one of the few places in the world where the US can't get him since there is no extradition treaty, what was he supposed to do?
But he didn't, he gave up the lot of it and ran to Russia. How do you not see that? He could've easily accomplished his one goal and claimed whistleblower status.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostPeople forget you can be a whisteblower and not give Russia/China sensitive information.None of you have any proof that he gave Russia or China sensitive information.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostHe was trying to get to Ecuador from Russia but his plane wouldn't land in Cuba and because of that became stuck in Russia. And Russia is one of the few places in the world where the US can't get him since there is no extradition treaty, what was he supposed to do?The naivete on display is just, I can't.
None of you have any proof that he gave Russia or China sensitive informations.
By reilo Go To Post"became stuck in Russia" 😂That's literally what happened and his passport was cancelled during the trip. This is all publicly available information and history it takes you a second to look up lol *shrugs*
I'm out
By i can get you a toe Go To PostThe naivete on display is just, I can't.Russia just deeply cares about exposing the US Government spying on its citizens
By i can get you a toe Go To PostThe naivete on display is just, I can't.I mean if you want to parrot unsubstantiated US government talking points, go right ahead.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostHe was trying to get to Ecuador from Russia but his plane wouldn't land in Cuba and because of that became stuck in Russia. And Russia is one of the few places in the world where the US can't get him since there is no extradition treaty, what was he supposed to do?he didn't even fully explore his options while he was here wtf
None of you have any proof that he gave Russia or China sensitive informations.
and you can't prove he didn't. hell, HE could've proved he didn't. the only obvious thing is that he's not living rent free in russia without doing something - and everything he's good at is shit that everyone should despise especially when those countries do dirt in the open. you know how political asylum works, there has to be an exchange and it has to be invaluable if its been years since he's been there and they haven't found a trade up yet.
and then you want to act like giving info to journalists isn't releasing information? this is actual gymnastics rn and a joy to read this labor day weekend
By Perfect Blue Go To PostI mean if you want to parrot unsubstantiated US government talking points, go right ahead.I mean if you want to pretend there aren't other avenues for whistleblowers to take, go right ahead. I'm done with a lack of criticism over his choices of country to hole up in cause *reasons* or *his life is in danger*, like other whistleblowers haven't dealt with the same shit. If anything this discussion is really insulting to them and their legacy.
By DY_nasty Go To Posthe didn't even fully explore his options while he was here wtfOf course I can't, but I'm not the one making a claim either way.
and you can't prove he didn't. hell, HE could've proved he didn't. the only obvious thing is that he's not living rent free in russia without doing something - and everything he's good at is shit that everyone should despise especially when those countries do dirt in the open. you know how political asylum works, there has to be an exchange and it has to be invaluable if its been years since he's been there and they haven't found a trade up yet.
and then you want to act like giving info to journalists isn't releasing information? this is actual gymnastics rn and a joy to read this labor day weekend