By Hitch Go To PostI think he absolutely failed at Man Utd
A league cup and a Europa League is almost meaningless at a club of that stature. Left them in a state worse than the one he found it in.
Finishing second and winning the Europa & League Cup for a post-Fergie United is by FAR their best season, I think the way Mou's tenure ended colours his time pretty negatively, but that season alone makes his time not a total failure for me.
The board failed Mou and Mou also failed the players, and fans. It's a two problem type of thing. Our scouting system was terrible, Woodward wanting to change clubs mindset that they can't take advantage of United to ask for high fees, only thing is he's bad at it.
Disagree with Rrusher, because we were playing absolutely shite football. He's great at turning things around though, but that's not enough when the team goes in a match looking like underdogs even against a lower table team. We were sitting back, and subsequently got worse at pressing, and being pressed. That's something, because it was something we were already shit during the LVG years.
He was kinda right that we were lucky to get 2nd in his second last season, but that's also on him that things started to break down. It got worse when Rui left, because from what we got was that Rui was important in smoothing things out with the players, and without him around apparently the enviroment around Carrington, right down to the in house staff got pretty depressing.
It was a little like... getting managed by Malcom Tucker? Shite with his own employees, but from what we have seen great with fans.
Also he doesnt believe that you can teach finishing, and that people are either natural finishers, or aren't. There's a whole lot of difference in how much better Rashford and Martial are in getting the ball at the back of the net nowadays (although not at the state where I'd call great yet)
Tons of problems. It's not only the noise that surrounds the club that's at fault, that's minor compared to the shitshow inside.
Disagree with Rrusher, because we were playing absolutely shite football. He's great at turning things around though, but that's not enough when the team goes in a match looking like underdogs even against a lower table team. We were sitting back, and subsequently got worse at pressing, and being pressed. That's something, because it was something we were already shit during the LVG years.
He was kinda right that we were lucky to get 2nd in his second last season, but that's also on him that things started to break down. It got worse when Rui left, because from what we got was that Rui was important in smoothing things out with the players, and without him around apparently the enviroment around Carrington, right down to the in house staff got pretty depressing.
It was a little like... getting managed by Malcom Tucker? Shite with his own employees, but from what we have seen great with fans.
Also he doesnt believe that you can teach finishing, and that people are either natural finishers, or aren't. There's a whole lot of difference in how much better Rashford and Martial are in getting the ball at the back of the net nowadays (although not at the state where I'd call great yet)
Tons of problems. It's not only the noise that surrounds the club that's at fault, that's minor compared to the shitshow inside.
Leave it to the birds. In 2017/18, Man Utd was third in goal difference and only scored six goals less than Tottenham. The media created a narrative, which is why the Europa League win seemed like an obligation and the 2nd place in 17/18 was actually a disappointment. It's fucking Britain, the media runs the perception so much that Boris is still the sure fire bet for PM.
The only thing that has changed are the expectations and the media interest. I believe I have at least half a brain, and I know for sure that Levy has more than half a brain. If we were to believe the media created narrative around the Mou saga at Man Utd, not in hindsight but as it were, then Mourinho to spurs would be simply absurd and it would take a moron who doesn't understand shit about football to do it. There were other options.
Start from the beginning.
The only thing that has changed are the expectations and the media interest. I believe I have at least half a brain, and I know for sure that Levy has more than half a brain. If we were to believe the media created narrative around the Mou saga at Man Utd, not in hindsight but as it were, then Mourinho to spurs would be simply absurd and it would take a moron who doesn't understand shit about football to do it. There were other options.
By Daz Go To PostThere is so much wrong with that first paragraph, I dont even know where to start.
Start from the beginning.
There was definitely a narrative being written, but that's normal. It doesnt excuse the environment in the club, it doesnt excuse how we perform in matches.
Brendan Rodgers, and Roy Hodgson. There was plenty of narratives written about when these two managers started to manage their respective clubs. Both have been doing really well on the pitch.
Brendan Rodgers, and Roy Hodgson. There was plenty of narratives written about when these two managers started to manage their respective clubs. Both have been doing really well on the pitch.
By n8 dogg Go To PostOliver Kay’s piece for the Afletik is good on Poch.You guys should make a fast approach now, because at the end of the season I doubt you'll have a big chance.
Think he needs some time out, a la Pep at Barca/Klopp at Dortmund. Hope we snaffle him before Bayern/PSG do at the end of the year.
Rather get a pre-contract in and be silent about it.
By Flutter Go To PostThere was definitely a narrative being written, but that's normal. It doesnt excuse the environment in the club, it doesnt excuse how we perform in matches.
Brendan Rodgers, and Roy Hodgson. There was plenty of narratives written about when these two managers started to manage their respective clubs. Both have been doing really well on the pitch.
Mou absolutely lost the plot, I won't deny that. But even when he was finding success, resistance kept growing.
Now when Ole at Old Trafford plays three center-backs against Liverpool and finishes the game with 32% possession, was the narrative that it was boring and safe, and that they cowered in their own home? That they played like a small team? No the story was another, it told the tale of a team who held the mighty Pool at the gates, a day when boys became men. Who falls for this crap?
By Laboured Go To Post#Pray4JesalFrom UCL finalist to having Mourito as your new manager in 5 months.
Football what a desporto
Bring me Mauricinho
By RrusheR Go To PostMou absolutely lost the plot, I won't deny that. But even when he was finding success, resistance kept growing.There's a difference. The players we have compared to both set of matches, and the style of play. United didn't shy from battling for the ball, we didn't look scared against Liverpool. You can see that we were far away off the quality Liverpool had.
Now when Ole at Old Trafford plays three center-backs against Liverpool and finishes the game with 32% possession, was the narrative that it was boring and safe, and that they cowered in their own home? That they played like a small team? No the story was another, it told the tale of a team who held the mighty Pool at the gates, a day when boys became men. Who falls for this crap?
It's not to say Ole is cut out for being our manager, but I didn't watch the match and wanting to see in the Quran if there's a loophole on getting a glass of whisky after watching a United match.
By Laboured Go To Post#Pray4JesalExcuse me, I'll be over here listening to Billy Eilish songs
By Flutter Go To PostThere's a difference. The players we have compared to both set of matches, and the style of play. United didn't shy from battling for the ball, we didn't look scared against Liverpool. You can see that we were far away off the quality Liverpool had.
It's not to say Ole is cut out for being our manager, but I didn't watch the match and wanting to see in the Quran if there's a loophole on getting a glass of whisky after watching a United match.
Right, the expectations were so low that the whiskey was commemorative.
Let's continue this argument when Spurs fans here reach for glasses of whisky even after winning a match.
Playing for the draw against Sevilla is still the most cowardly performance from a United side I can remember. Mourinho saying it was his only option to do so sealed his fate.
Mourinho > Ole
It's not even a comparison. Anyone saying otherwise is drunk.
I personally think Mourinho will do well at Spurs. He said he's reenergized, has and wants to try new ideas and imo Spurs have much better players than United.
It's not even a comparison. Anyone saying otherwise is drunk.
I personally think Mourinho will do well at Spurs. He said he's reenergized, has and wants to try new ideas and imo Spurs have much better players than United.
Eh.... that's arguable. He left Inter after winning the Champion's League, Real won plenty of CLs after he left.
Even Chelsea, as much as he fucked up, had a lot to do with Costa and Hazard going on a bender during preseason and coming back overweight.
Even Chelsea, as much as he fucked up, had a lot to do with Costa and Hazard going on a bender during preseason and coming back overweight.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostMourinho > Olethat's not even the conversation, or the gist what we are talking about.
It's not even a comparison. Anyone saying otherwise is drunk.
I personally think Mourinho will do well at Spurs. He said he's reenergized, has and wants to try new ideas and imo Spurs have much better players than United.
By Flutter Go To Postthat's not even the conversation, or the gist what we are talking about.That's fine, I'm adding it onto the conversation, the Spurs v United match is going to be delicious.
Point is, Spurs want to win, they have the right manager for that goal with Mourinho - not taking anything away from Poch. Like his antics, hate his player management, but in the end Mourinho gets results.
As it stands though, when Ole leaves he's most probably going to leave us much better than Mou, Moyes, or LVG had.
The best off the pitch, although that's not saying much.
The best off the pitch, although that's not saying much.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostLike his antics, hate his player management, but in the end Mourinho gets results.He nearly got Chelsea relegated and United on 7th before he was fired.
By Flutter Go To PostAs it stands though, when Ole leaves he's most probably going to leave us much better than Mou, Moyes, or LVG had.How many points were United trailing the top when Mou left? How many points is United trailing the top now with Ole?
The best off the pitch, although that's not saying much.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostHow many points were United trailing the top when Mou left? How many points is United trailing the top now with Ole?Frustrated, the keyword is off the pitch. Our previous managers were shite at transfers and player development.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostHow many points were United trailing the top when Mou left? How many points is United trailing the top now with Ole?
These arguments are shit because they ignore all context (of Liverpool and City who have improved, of Mou’s own performance in relation to expectations and money spent, the squad he had, the style of football he played, the poisonous worm atmosphere).
Is Mourinho a better manager than Ole? Yeah. Would I rather have him? Would I fuck.
By n8 dogg Go To PostComparing the way we played against Pool this season and last is disingenuous m8
What I see is the framing, mostly done by the media and then adopted by the fans. I'm willing to bet right of the bat that the media will be 10x more excited to write any kind of garbage around Mou and Tottenham than Ole and Man Utd, and that means a lot. That means pressure.
Man Utd fans ever since Ole came in have been quoting the Silver Lining's playbook, and that is only possible because that's the book the media is writing right now.
Just for the sake of argument, let's look a couple of stats. Obviously I can't compare the full season but this season so far, Ole's "first" lets say, and 16/17:
Losses
4 so far in 19/20
5 total in 16/17
Goals Per Match
1.33 so far in 19/20
1.42 in 16/17
Passes Per Match
474.92 so far in 19/20
532.76 in 16/17
Pass Accuracy
81% so far in 19/20
84% in 16/17
Goals Conceded Per Match
1 so far in 19/20
0.76 in 16/17
Tackle Success
56% so far in 19/20
71% in 16/17
Shooting Accuracy
35% so far in 19/20
36% in 16/17
Granted, these stats might look completely different by the end of the season, but football is a numbers game. You might have your feelings, and the media will most certainly try and tell you how to feel, but it's a numbers game.
@flutter @n8
That's fair, I can appreciate your point of views.
I'm now gonna be watching more Spurs games though, Mourinho teams are entertaining to watch when the team clicks.
That's fair, I can appreciate your point of views.
I'm now gonna be watching more Spurs games though, Mourinho teams are entertaining to watch when the team clicks.
By n8 dogg Go To Postmiserable cunts at press conferences
0 in 2019/20
500 in 2016/17
Because the media doesn't care, nobody pushes Ole. Nobody demands anything from Ole, and nobody cares what happens at Utd this season because it's already written off.
By n8 dogg Go To Postthis is a trump argument
the media is 2 blame
Somehow the results aren't any better and the stats are worse, but the players feel like they are playing with freedom. I wonder how that happens.
You can dislike Mou all you want, but don't come around talking mad jibberish about Man Utd's improvement since he left or how good it was before he arrived. Straight up pie in the sky.
By RrusheR Go To PostBecause the media doesn't care, nobody pushes Ole. Nobody demands anything from Ole, and nobody cares what happens at Utd this season because it's already written off.And that's not by chance. United knew very well what they were doing appointing Ole, that there would be less expectations both from the team and as a club in whole.
In reality, Ole's regressed this team so much more than Mou, the damage is going to be felt for a long while.
At United it seems very much like the players run the decision making at the club, to a certain extent. Anything to keep the players happy, they seem untouchable, as if their word is the word ultimately.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostAnd that's not by chance. United knew very well what they were doing appointing Ole, that there would be less expectations both from the team and as a club in whole.
In reality, Ole's regressed this team so much more than Mou, the damage is going to be felt for a long while.
At United it seems very much like the players run the decision making at the club, to a certain extent. Anything to keep the players happy, they seem untouchable, as if their word is the word ultimately.
What is this based on?
The greatest regression was in Mourinho's final year at United. Performances were routinely awful in 2018. Right now we're still picking up the pieces of the mess Mourinho left. Yes, a better manager than Solksjaer is required. But he'd still struggle with what Mourinho us.
By Laboured Go To PostSee, you made Will do the Post.
My senses were tingling
(There is truth to it though, Ole gets away with a ton of stuff simply because he's 'nice')
By n8 dogg Go To PostWhat is this based on?Stats?
But mainly the thought that at United the current performance, while not acceptable, is OK because "this is as good as it gets with Ole" and that "we're recovering from Mou". I find that incredible to be honest, imagine it was anyone else at the helm still and these were the results - would the media, the fans, the board, anyone, be ok with it?
Big teams need to be more cut throat and realistic. Ole wouldn't have lasted this long at City or at Pool given the clubs stature. Ole was a gamble, and if we're to be honest he's been mainly garbage. Blaming Mou a year later, while regressing in every category, is wrong.
Think most United fans would gladly take Poch now.
Ole was an interim and still don't see him as the long term manager. Pretty sure the idea would have initially been to see who would be available at the end of last season. Now that Poch is available though, hope we go all out to get him.
Ole was an interim and still don't see him as the long term manager. Pretty sure the idea would have initially been to see who would be available at the end of last season. Now that Poch is available though, hope we go all out to get him.
By Frustrated_me Go To PostStats?
But mainly the thought that at United the current performance, while not acceptable, is OK because "this is as good as it gets with Ole" and that "we're recovering from Mou". I find that incredible to be honest, imagine it was anyone else at the helm still and these were the results - would the media, the fans, the board, anyone, be ok with it?
Big teams need to be more cut throat and realistic. Ole wouldn't have lasted this long at City or at Pool given the clubs stature. Ole was a gamble, and if we're to be honest he's been mainly garbage. Blaming Mou a year later, while regressing in every category, is wrong.
Regressing in every category lol
Our three best players this season have been our signings. Ole actually plays our best striker. We’re higher in the table. And we don’t have that soul sucking shitbag in charge.
I’d rather have the power of smiling til the end of time than that prick again.
By Bungie Go To PostThis is 100% one of the worst days of my lifeOh no
There are many more coming
It’s about 90%
By n8 dogg Go To Postmiserable cunts at press conferencesLol, that's not an argument I would use n8
0 in 2019/20
500 in 2016/17