Please use this thread to discuss the protests in Hong Kong. The topic is large enough and has enough interest that it deserves it's own thread. This is especially so as the topic spills over into not just politics but sports. The intention is to keep less serious sports threads about those sports and to keep the conversation surrounding the protests in Hong Kong (and all related topics) here, where it can deservedly get more serious conversation.
Thank you and please be civil.
Thank you and please be civil.
By Fenderputty Go To PostMore like a hall monitor. Mods run the schoolSnitch brah
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostAt some point they’ve decided that being immoral is more preferable to being inconsistent.
Does the backlash ever get big enough the money makes sense from a moral standpoint?
Who knew all that capitalism needed to thrive was the absence of a Bill of Rights
American companies want in on that action
American companies want in on that action
By Fenderputty Go To PostDoes the backlash ever get big enough the money makes sense from a moral standpoint?WoW classic has 100K+ viewers on Twitch right now so not any time soon
https://twitter.com/mic_journal/status/1184460640590745600?s=21
I encourage everyone to read this. I don’t have time to write out every feeling I have on this but these perspectives capture quite a bit of it
I encourage everyone to read this. I don’t have time to write out every feeling I have on this but these perspectives capture quite a bit of it
By HasphatsAnts Go To Posthttps://twitter.com/mic_journal/status/1184460640590745600?s=21A big reason why I can't stomach protests anymore is because of how easily momentum gets hijacked.
I encourage everyone to read this. I don’t have time to write out every feeling I have on this but these perspectives capture quite a bit of it
I would bet any amount of money that Morey would not have the courage to make a support tweet if a massive protest occurred in Houston and people were destroying subway stations, offices of politicians they don't like, business establishments that donated to the opposing party, not to mention throwing petrol bombs, beating up and stabbing cops.
If we want to talk about being hypocritical and ignorant, we should start with him.
If we want to talk about being hypocritical and ignorant, we should start with him.
Had a friend from Hong Kong in school years ago. Her family had to get out back then because it wasn't completely safe for them.
By linsivvi Go To PostI would bet any amount of money that Morey would not have the courage to make a support tweet if a massive protest occurred in Houston and people were destroying subway stations, offices of politicians they don't like, business establishments that donated to the opposing party, not to mention throwing petrol bombs, beating up and stabbing cops.You're calling him a hypocrite because of an event that didn't happen and you made up in your head? Okay...
If we want to talk about being hypocritical and ignorant, we should start with him.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostYou're calling him a hypocrite because of an event that didn't happen and you made up in your head? Okay…https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-face-masks.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/13/police-officer-stabbed-neck-latest-hong-kong-clashes/
you can argue the details of the event all day, but he's not pulling ideas out of nowhere... the subway stuff is well documented and ongoing, the politicians stuff is common anywhere and to be expected as well as the businesses that are aligned in a certain way, etc
similar to the yellow vest stuff, so so many protests start a certain way then become something else after a while because of the force applied in return and outside influences
By Perfect Blue Go To PostYou're calling him a hypocrite because of an event that didn't happen and you made up in your head? Okay…Anyone with common sense knows that if similar violence happened in America people would not be openly supporting it.
By linsivvi Go To PostAnyone with common sense knows that if similar violence happened in America people would not be openly supporting it.
Fuck we got upset at some kids camping in streets. That's with a rather unified national distaste for wall street after the collapse too.
By Fenderputty Go To PostFuck we got upset at some kids camping in streets.Yeah I remember at the old site many posters were mocking the occupy movement.
We got upset at a minority that's routinely murked by cops obstructing traffic. Not even violence. Just regular old civil disobedience to bring light to a problem that's still a thing. Woman just got blasted in her home by a cop not a couple days ago. If BLM started up again in the streets you can bet people would be quick to complain and shit all over it once again.
By linsivvi Go To PostYeah I remember at the old site many posters were mocking the occupy movement.
And to DY's point, that movement got hijacked to hell and back by all sorts of guy fawkes mask wearing libertarian nutters. I remember the media was trying to find the most crazy people in the protests and using them as a benchmark for what the movement wanted. Which of course the nutters weren't interested in. Soft support transitioned to annoyance transitioned to outright mockery. "look at this millennial bumbs with ipads and no jobs protesting wall street"
Yeah also Americans want some shit to change but also don't want to be inconvenienced or get out in the streets themselves. They think petition signatures and retweets will do the deed. PlEaSe Be CiViL.
imagine for one second
one instant
protestors doing to NYC's subway what has been done to HK's
*waits to be misunderstood as pro-ccp*
but i'm not unsympathetic at all on this. I just feel kinda grated by so many really, really shallow and one-dimensional takes on the whole matter like China just started being jerks or how tweets mean something.
one instant
protestors doing to NYC's subway what has been done to HK's
*waits to be misunderstood as pro-ccp*
but i'm not unsympathetic at all on this. I just feel kinda grated by so many really, really shallow and one-dimensional takes on the whole matter like China just started being jerks or how tweets mean something.
By DY_nasty Go To Posthttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-face-masks.htmlI know about all that stuff and you guys aren't wrong about the reactions that would happen in the US. I'm saying those things didn't happen in the US, so what point does this hypothetical serve other than to bash Morey for some odd reason. The guy just put out a tweet he didn't think twice about. It's weird to attack him when the obvious culprit in this shit is the CCP.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/13/police-officer-stabbed-neck-latest-hong-kong-clashes/
you can argue the details of the event all day, but he's not pulling ideas out of nowhere… the subway stuff is well documented and ongoing, the politicians stuff is common anywhere and to be expected as well as the businesses that are aligned in a certain way, etc
similar to the yellow vest stuff, so so many protests start a certain way then become something else after a while because of the force applied in return and outside influences
By DY_nasty Go To Postbut i'm not unsympathetic at all on this. I just feel kinda grated by so many really, really shallow and one-dimensional takes on the whole matter like China just started being jerks or how tweets mean something.
I think that's my largest frustration in most of this. 95% of the anger being flung at the NBA is coming from people who never really gave a fuck about Hong Kong, and never will give a fuck outside of this singular moment. It just feels like everyone is trying to up their street cred and are taking pot shots at the woke league. 99.9% of the people flinging mud would stay silent as fuck if it meant millions to them an their families as well.
And it's shitty too. Because it is a serious issue, it does need discussion and the discussion should be more broad than just this singular issue.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI think that's my largest frustration in most of this. 95% of the anger being flung at the NBA is coming from people who never really gave a fuck about Hong Kong, and never will give a fuck outside of this singular moment. It just feels like everyone is trying to up their street cred and are taking pot shots at the woke league. 99.9% of the people flinging mud would stay silent as fuck if it meant millions to them an their families as well.This is essentially what I tweeted the other day. Legitimate criticisms of the NBA and LeBron are being poisoned by people we know don't actually care, or perpetuate the growth of global capital, or are racists trying to talk shit about someone who speaks up against Trump.
And it's shitty too. Because it is a serious issue, it does need discussion and the discussion should be more broad than just this singular issue.
Not trying to hipster this shit but it kind of does say something loud and clear about our society that we care more about China trying to shush some entertainers than all of the other shit with companies they've been pulling, specifically buying up utilities, land and leverage in stuff that affects us way more. Hell much of the development of land and housing in places has been more to appeal to foreign moneys and get money back than you know home our own citizens. But this, this is the big news, not homelessness rates, except when like I have to step over their needles or see their camps encroaching towards my neighborhood or whatever.
By Perfect Blue Go To PostI know about all that stuff and you guys aren't wrong about the reactions that would happen in the US. I'm saying those things didn't happen in the US, so what point does this hypothetical serve other than to bash Morey for some odd reason. The guy just put out a tweet he didn't think twice about. It's weird to attack him when the obvious culprit in this shit is the CCP.That's the thing, he didn't think twice about it lol
Its obvious he didn't for one moment consider *anything* before he decided to put on his social media activist badge for the week. He's fucking up people's money. Now, not in the sense that everything is about some global capitalist goal or decrepit machine of human entropy.... Nothing like that. There's literally nothing he could've done to make HK's situation better in any way. Or tackle China. But what's bad is that he's been with the Rockets for years now. He's been involved in international competition for years. He knows China's bullshit better than most having seen it first hand and undoubtedly knows where his boundaries are as an individual and a member or larger organizations.
That's what's so bad. He shouldn't need a fucking hashtag to inspire him lmao. Retweeting like auntie from church? cmon
So obviously, everyone doesn't agree with what this international partner does. Okay, that's cool. People do however rely on that business and money coming in.
And outside of violence, what is the best way to control what people will or won't do? Money.
That's why some NFL players took a knee and some didn't. Some could afford to and some couldn't, simple. With this money tied into various marketing deals and the overall revenue, a half assed tweet fucks with CBA, expansion, fucking charity/community projects that people actually have devoted real time and passion to, etc. Its not about what someone needs on their plate, its about their livelihood and their inherent human response to protect it no matter how big or small it is.
You want to make a stand? Do it yourself. Don't drag others into it and take away their ability to choose or even how they do it. Its irresponsible and dumb.
By i can get you a toe Go To PostNot trying to hipster this shit but it kind of does say something loud and clear about our society that we care more about China trying to shush some entertainers than all of the other shit with companies they've been pulling, specifically buying up utilities, land and leverage in stuff that affects us way more. Hell much of the development of land and housing in places has been more to appeal to foreign moneys and get money back than you know home our own citizens. But this, this is the big news, not homelessness rates, except when like I have to step over their needles or see their camps encroaching towards my neighborhood or whatever.
I said this the other day in the NBA thread and IWMTB didn't seem to follow me.
"if only the value of labor had as much political capital as symbolic gestures to Hong Kong's freedom through loss of profits does."
We're literally screaming at companies to lose profit over hong kong protests but want to raise minimum wage and it's .... "whoa whoa buddy, companies can't absorb those kinds of costs. We could have loss of jobs". Meanwhile most other companies are sliding by without much pushback from the media outside of insane places like the federalist.
I quipped that maybe the government can subsidize these losses like they do for the farming sector that's been decimated by similar dynamics between communist and capitalist structures during a trade war.
This idea that companies haven't been suppressing speech from their employees for ages is wild to me to as well. You think I could go post some wildly racist shit on a not anonymous facebook account that could be tied back to my company without repercussion? Fuck ... NBC / Ronnan Farrow shit is easily just as bad as Lowe being told by ESPN not to talk about China. We got a thread on that? Fuck no.
I would argue that the shitshow he caused actually did have an affect though. I've literally encountered people who are now aware about what i going on in HK (and weren't before) and now on their "fuck china" trip. (some of this might be South Park and Blizzard though)
What's better, a rousing speech and and sacrifice that nobody sees or cares about or retweeting like an auntie from church that makes international headlines?
What's better, a rousing speech and and sacrifice that nobody sees or cares about or retweeting like an auntie from church that makes international headlines?
By DY_nasty Go To PostThat's the thing, he didn't think twice about it lolThis sounds similar to the kind of stuff Stephen A. Smith has been saying that you shouldn't rock the boat or speak out because it messes up with people's money and goes against the narrative of the powers that be. I can't get with that, and you're still brushing aside the fact that the real culprit isn't even Morey, it's the CCP who gets entirely bent out of shape over a silly tweet on a service that is already banned in China anyway. Why are you giving them a pass? That kind of behaviour is not normal and if Trump tried to lose the NBA their business everyone here would be rightfully up in arms about it.
Its obvious he didn't for one moment consider *anything* before he decided to put on his social media activist badge for the week. He's fucking up people's money. Now, not in the sense that everything is about some global capitalist goal or decrepit machine of human entropy…. Nothing like that. There's literally nothing he could've done to make HK's situation better in any way. Or tackle China. But what's bad is that he's been with the Rockets for years now. He's been involved in international competition for years. He knows China's bullshit better than most having seen it first hand and undoubtedly knows where his boundaries are as an individual and a member or larger organizations.
That's what's so bad. He shouldn't need a fucking hashtag to inspire him lmao. Retweeting like auntie from church? cmon
So obviously, everyone doesn't agree with what this international partner does. Okay, that's cool. People do however rely on that business and money coming in.
And outside of violence, what is the best way to control what people will or won't do? Money.
That's why some NFL players took a knee and some didn't. Some could afford to and some couldn't, simple. With this money tied into various marketing deals and the overall revenue, a half assed tweet fucks with CBA, expansion, fucking charity/community projects that people actually have devoted real time and passion to, etc. Its not about what someone needs on their plate, its about their livelihood and their inherent human response to protect it no matter how big or small it is.
You want to make a stand? Do it yourself. Don't drag others into it and take away their ability to choose or even how they do it. Its irresponsible and dumb.
Was his activism entirely pointless just like Auntie's? Yeah, of course it was, hence why he thought nothing of it lol. I'd also argue that he was doing it himself... he tweeted it out on his own private Twitter account. It's not like he was shouting slogans and dressing up in a mask and black t-shirt during a Houston Rockets press conference or behind a board with NBA logos while they were already in China.
Also, why should he even care about how LeBron and others make their money? Maybe they shouldn't do business deals with a totalitarian dictatorship if their money is so precarious and subject to social media postings.
By diehard Go To PostI would argue that the shitshow he caused actually did have an affect though. I've literally encountered people who are now aware about what i going on in HK (and weren't before) and now on their "fuck china" trip. (some of this might be South Park and Blizzard though)This is a good point. The thing became an international incident and shone a light on Chinese censorship in the US.
What's better, a rousing speech and and sacrifice that nobody sees or cares about or retweeting like an auntie from church that makes international headlines?
By i can get you a toe Go To PostNot trying to hipster this shit but it kind of does say something loud and clear about our society that we care more about China trying to shush some entertainers than all of the other shit with companies they've been pulling, specifically buying up utilities, land and leverage in stuff that affects us way more. Hell much of the development of land and housing in places has been more to appeal to foreign moneys and get money back than you know home our own citizens. But this, this is the big news, not homelessness rates, except when like I have to step over their needles or see their camps encroaching towards my neighborhood or whatever.It's just telling that now people want to hear what NBA players feel and think.
By diehard Go To PostI would argue that the shitshow he caused actually did have an affect though. I've literally encountered people who are now aware about what i going on in HK (and weren't before) and now on their "fuck china" trip. (some of this might be South Park and Blizzard though)man HK ain't even a top 3 shit thing china has done this year lol
What's better, a rousing speech and and sacrifice that nobody sees or cares about or retweeting like an auntie from church that makes international headlines?
and if you were to argue that we're having any kind of effect, i'd argue that we're making it worse
By DY_nasty Go To Postman HK ain't even a top 3 shit thing china has done this year loland didn't even stand by it lol
and if you were to argue that we're having any kind of effect, i'd argue that we're making it worse
By blackace Go To PostIt's just telling that now people want to hear what NBA players feel and think.Only to then say from places of immense privilege too: "you care about police brutality here why not there" and similar shit ass gotchas.
By blackace Go To Postand didn't even stand by it lolShould've cut holes in his socks. Sure they were made on China too
By i can get you a toe Go To PostOnly to then say from places of immense privilege too: "you care about police brutality why not here" and similar shit ass gotchas.It's crazy when you think how much more energy Hong Kong gets than fellow countrymen getting killed by police for selling cigarettes, mixtapes, eating ice cream, or playing videogames with their nephew does...
By DY_nasty Go To PostShould've cut holes in his socks. Sure they were made on China too😂😂😂
By DY_nasty Go To Postman HK ain't even a top 3 shit thing china has done this year lolThe only thing you can do to China is hurt them economically. You don't think this has any affect on say... peoples acceptance to pay more for tariffed goods? Or negative reactions causing both internal and external pressure for companies to move their manufacturing to somewhere like Vietnam?
and if you were to argue that we're having any kind of effect, i'd argue that we're making it worse
People keep bringing up the Hong Kong situation as the largest factor here. I strongly believe people don't really care about Hong Kong, but they care about seeing an external force have such an influence on what is an ideology of theirs (of mythical size) Democracy.
By diehard Go To PostThe only thing you can do to China is hurt them economically. You don't think this has any affect on say… peoples acceptance to pay more for tariffed goods? Or negative reactions causing both internal and external pressure for companies to move their manufacturing to somewhere like Vietnam?ah! Vietnam the crown jewel of human rights
By diehard Go To PostThe only thing you can do to China is hurt them economically. You don't think this has any affect on say… peoples willingness to pay more for tariffed goods?china is what they are today because of their ability to bite an economical bullet tho
no other country has so readily or successfully made their own population an expendable resource and the entire modern world thanks them for it in kind. the idea that a lot of people are putting out this "hit their wallets" etc is just so much of a western concept too...
like try it. you'll break before they do.
edit: lol democracy we been off that. i guess that's what we tell ourselves i guess but cmon...
cmon
now expect other countries to take us seriously on that front
the CCP has been able to stay in power because of their constantly increasing economic growth, lots of people who know more about China than me have suggested the only way things will change there is if their economy stagnates.
I've done a bad job conflating economic and moral arguments.
I've done a bad job conflating economic and moral arguments.
that growth comes from a different cultural mindset though man... nevermind all the other tangible stuff
i will say that america just hasn't been quite on balance without the cold war russians that were safe to hate on across the board.
i will say that america just hasn't been quite on balance without the cold war russians that were safe to hate on across the board.
By blackace Go To Postah! Vietnam the crown jewel of human rightsim saying wtf
moving manufacturing to Vietnam is economically preferable for the United States, i didn't think i had to explain that.
There's a an argument that China has been trying to move away from manufacturing somewhat, but a swift change would obviously be very damaging to them.
There's a an argument that China has been trying to move away from manufacturing somewhat, but a swift change would obviously be very damaging to them.
By diehard Go To Postmoving manufacturing to Vietnam is economically preferable for the United States, i didn't think i had to explain that.not if the context is human rights violations....
By DY_nasty Go To Postnot if the context is human rights violations….the context was what a tweet could do to hurt China. Already said how i don't think human rights violations are the largest factor here.