Football Thread | August 19 | Unfit and Improper People

By Shanks D Zoro Go To PostFuck Juve.

No idea what this club is doing.

You bought the future mate

By Linius Go To PostYou sold the future mate

Fixed.

Season starts today for us with the Portuguese Super Cup. Not expecting us to win at all, the pre-season wasn't good at all with the match against Liverpool being the only positive, our 3 RBs are still injured and/or out of form.
Only a masterclass from Bruno Fernandes could give us a chance of winning against a very strong and very prepared Benfica.

By J Ciaran Go To Postugly post

Bad post. Am I wrong? I'm sure there's been a ton of stats (yeah I know. Stats. They of course never tel the whole story but they are valid indicators of certain patterns etc) from the last few months of the season which had Pogba the midfielder in the PL with the most time spent walking. Various indicents over the past 3 years when he hasn't backtracked, given up after losing the ball which has lead to goals etc etc.

I think it would be fair to say he he's more spotlight that most players for these kinds of incidents which almost certainly has a negative impact on the fans opinion of him, but that's hardly surprising given United's plight and his status as their main man.

His attitude has been called into consideration constantly over the past 3 years, sometimes unfairly, sometimes fairly. Like it or not, I think that's a far bigger factor as to why a lot of United fans don't love him than his talent, which is undeniable.

For once I agree with Willkiller.

It's not entirely his fault though, that I'll agree with. There are times when it was clearly Mou, or that his teammates cannot convert the chances he gave.

Also, I'll keep posting this for the next few days seeing as I posted it pretty late last night, but if you want to make Premier League predictions the spreadsheet is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HyUWQaK8GTII84rcAfqWqXt5_xC3iC-gc9H_RSBFeJg/edit

By Shanks D Zoro Go To PostFixed.

Should have sold him to us so we can ship off Dolberg.

Stepped up big in 19.

Rewarded with being shipped off to Merseyside.

Unforgiveable move from the club.

Club wants to build a brand, and we sell our most talented youngster who could be the face of club and country for the next decade.

I can understand the Dybala transfer. I cant understand Kean's.

he's too black to the be face of an italian football club. just facts

By Shanks D Zoro Go To PostStepped up big in 19.

Rewarded with being shipped off to Merseyside.

Unforgiveable move from the club.

Club wants to build a brand, and we sell our most talented youngster who could be the face of club and country for the next decade.

He can't even be his own face if he doesn't play

there's no time for an espresso with the ticking time bomb that is Ronaldo.

anyway, none of our sales and trades are football related, just purely for capital gains and cost spreading (Lukaku and Danilo)

Obviously I agree with Will on Pogba. Hugely talented but just not consistent enough, nor possesses the mentality to be an elite central midfielder. His best years came surrounded by other elite midfielders who could shoulder the responsibility and burden, but when it was his turn to do that as a leader (both metaphorically and financially) he went missing. He’s had some incredible performances for United, against Everton or City, but he’s never really led them through a season. United lost a lot in selling Ibra, who could’ve taught Pogba how to turn persona into consistency.

I get that there’s so much to love about the player individually but it just doesn’t come together often enough over the course of an entire season.

United is a Serie A club in all but name then

By Flutter Go To PostThere's a lot I love about Pogba, but his performances was what made me get frustrated with him. I wish it was as simple as if he was being judged unfairly, but it isn't.

It is as simple as that. If McTominay had the season Pogba had, we would all be buzzing over it. Why? Because by using one standard, Pogba was literally one of our best players. There's a reason why you have different standards for certain players. That's fair, but when the discussion switches to who stays at United, the same standard should be used for all players. Otherwise we just take out our most talented players and keep the players who play well for their own lower standard.

By Willkiller Go To PostPogba's talent hasn't really been the issue has it? Yes he's been one of United's better players in his time by virtue of him being the most talented outfield player by some distance.

I think the lack of love from United fans hasn't been due to the games where he doesn't play great, it's been his obvious lack of commitment and work ethic. I know personally I can forgive the better Newcastle players having off games because it simply happens, what I hate and what I can't forgive is players who don't actually try. And sometimes, far too often in fact, he just doesn't try. And for the position you're in, with the money you spent on him, that's not ok. That's why he isn't loved.

Think that comes from his style. People view midfields by the individual components. People should view them on what they as a whole (midfield 2 or 3) accomplish. And this is especially true when talking about defending. It is absolutely true that Pogba does not defend with the same enthusiasm as his teammates. I don't think he ever has. He'll sometimes have this burst of speed to win a ball back, but he's by and large not going to do it consistently. What Pogba does do is create for others,helps bring the ball out, helps switch the play, etc... The creative part he does really well. So if you look at the midfield as a whole, it's a lot easier to just fill in the rest of the parts (defending, passing) to compete that midfield. A midfield should help create, distribute, help protect the back 4, and be the safest ball handlers in the side.

So if Pogba isn't defending as much as people want, why doesn't Woodward get more shit for not building properly around the one guy who can almost single handedly carry one goal of the midfield? Or why don't the other midfielders get more shit for not doing the creative portion? Only when it comes to defense do we call out Pogba's inability in that area. The fan base wants Pogba to contribute in every area of the game.

At Juve, their midfield was like this
Pogba - Creative player, but helped distribute, and drive forward
Pirlo - Slow, but was the guy who sprayed passes all over
Vidal - Was the energy in attack and defense to cover for both of them

The midfield above provides creativity, helps out the back 4, distributes the ball, provides goals, etc...

It doesn't matter which player provides what. What matters is what the midfield as a whole does. At United it's not like that. Matic doesn't especially provide defensive cover, nor does he distribute the ball well. He's a jack of all trades type of midfielder, but slow as shit and played as the DM. Herrera was vital to us because he provided energy, but he wasn't exactly a destroyer, a proper dm, nor could he distribute the ball all that well. You sum all 3 of those players up and the midfield doesn't accomplish all it needs to accomplish. Only Pogba's creativity and Herrera's energy is given to the side. If you had Kante, would Herrera be needed? No, because Kante provides energy too and immensely helps out the defense. At that point the only thing the midfield would be missing is someone who consistently distributes the ball and is the safest passing option out there. Herrera wouldn't be needed, but someone like Carrick would be needed. The combination doesn't matter, the midfield as a whole does.

In other words, Pogba let's other lesser players receive much less criticism for not helping out the attack because he's so good at it. Pogba does not get that same treatment on the defensive side because our other players aren't providing it either.

By KidA Seven Go To PostIt is as simple as that. If McTominay had the season Pogba had, we would all be buzzing over it. Why? Because by using one standard, Pogba was literally one of our best players. There's a reason why you have different standards for certain players. That's fair, but when the discussion switches to who stays at United, the same standard should be used for all players. Otherwise we just take out our most talented players and keep the players who play well for their own lower standard.


Think that comes from his style. People view midfields by the individual components. People should view them on what they as a whole (midfield 2 or 3) accomplish. And this is especially true when talking about defending. It is absolutely true that Pogba does not defend with the same enthusiasm as his teammates. I don't think he ever has. He'll sometimes have this burst of speed to win a ball back, but he's by and large not going to do it consistently. What Pogba does do is create for others,helps bring the ball out, helps switch the play, etc… The creative part he does really well. So if you look at the midfield as a whole, it's a lot easier to just fill in the rest of the parts (defending, passing) to compete that midfield. A midfield should help create, distribute, help protect the back 4, and be the safest ball handlers in the side.

So if Pogba isn't defending as much as people want, why doesn't Woodward get more shit for not building properly around the one guy who can almost single handedly carry one goal of the midfield? Or why don't the other midfielders get more shit for not doing the creative portion? Only when it comes to defense do we call out Pogba's inability in that area. The fan base wants Pogba to contribute in every area of the game.

At Juve, their midfield was like this
Pogba - Creative player, but helped distribute, and drive forward
Pirlo - Slow, but was the guy who sprayed passes all over
Vidal - Was the energy in attack and defense to cover for both of them

The midfield above provides creativity, helps out the back 4, distributes the ball, provides goals, etc…

It doesn't matter which player provides what. What matters is what the midfield as a whole does. At United it's not like that. Matic doesn't especially provide defensive cover, nor does he distribute the ball well. He's a jack of all trades type of midfielder, but slow as shit and played as the DM. Herrera was vital to us because he provided energy, but he wasn't exactly a destroyer, a proper dm, nor could he distribute the ball all that well. You sum all 3 of those players up and the midfield doesn't accomplish all it needs to accomplish. Only Pogba's creativity and Herrera's energy is given to the side. If you had Kante, would Herrera be needed? No, because Kante provides energy too and immensely helps out the defense. At that point the only thing the midfield would be missing is someone who consistently distributes the ball and is the safest passing option out there. The combination doesn't matter, the midfield whole does.

In other words, Pogba let's other lesser players receive much less criticism for not helping out the attack because he's so good at it. Pogba does not get that same treatment on the defensive side because our other players aren't providing it either.

beautiful retort

I fully understand why United fans can feel like that regarding Pogba.

It's the same feeling I have with Ozil. Fuck him. Shame he's nowhere as marketable or easy to get rid of as the frenchman.

We can compare Carrick to Matic. Carrick wasn't speedy at all in 2013. Neither was Scholes in the 2nd half of 2012. They still let the midfield accomplish one of its tasks, mainly distribution of the ball. Carrick wasn't on the level of Kante at breaking up play, nor was he Southampton Schneiderlin level to break up play. He did specialize in distribution though as did Scholes. Matic has never accomplished this. So the similarity ends after their pace.

It's the same thing with McTominay. He's done really well in preseason so I'm a fan of his to the extent that he's only a squad player and starting considering the options. But it's not like he's good at defending, or distributing which is what our midfield doesn't provide. I like his energy which is needed with Pogba, but he's a box to box who is tasked with being the DM because we have no legit DM.

Against Milan in the 1st half, we didn't have possession because there wasn't a midfield that was really comfortable on the ball who can retain possession by using 1 touch passing, or great technique to slip past players. We don't currently have that in our midfield options though I was hoping Pereira would grow into that and now I'm hoping Gomes provides that in the future.

Pogba chips in that area, but he's a player that likes to get forward and isn't all that disciplined to want to be that consistent passing and passing option force the side needs. He's lazy in defending too so it's easy to see why he's not that player. But he does accomplish the creative portion and attacking portion the midfield is tasked with. No other player can say the same with regards to any task. This is why I don't view him as the problem, but instead view his partners as the problem.

awful father behavior that

Have to disagree with KidA. The reason why I love McTom is his consistency and his fearlessness. If he had a season like Pogba (statswise), I would still be pissed.

A full football season is a marathon. It doesnt matter if you're bright in spots, but if you dont have the consistency, then what's the point. You might as well play for Wolves.

what if you're consistently bang average

By J Ciaran Go To Postwhat if you're consistently bang average

Legit wont mind if McTom became just that. At least I know United has a solid backup in case of an injury.

Does anyone else here watch Judge Judy

Think if you're the kind of United fan that loves McTom but gives Pogba shit on the regular then at least you're not going to mind finishing 8th this season.

Also Moise to Everton is a top piece of business for a club that has been looking for a proper striker for a while now.

By FootbalIFan Go To PostDoes anyone else here watch Judge Judy

one of the greatest shows in the history oi television

Thing is Pogba had a lot more great performances than almost every one of his teammates. The first part of the season Pogba and Shaw were our best performers. Than Shaw started to fade a bit, and Martial started to perform really well. This led to the Newcastle match. Then Pogba went to shit, while Lindelof stepped up. Then Ole came in and Pogba, Herrera, and Rashford really did well. Then the entire team played like shit, but McTominay's effort was something great. Lindelof was consistently decent during this 2nd part of the season.

So it's not like others were consistently average. They were consistently shit. I take inconsistency all day over consistently trash.

Won't be watching the game because I'm going to watch fifteen Jackeen bastards get taught a lesson instead

By Laboured Go To PostAlso Moise to Everton is a top piece of business for a club that has been looking for a proper striker for a while now.

Poor Ellis Simms. A fetus aborted because of the adopted kid. Not like he was that great despite the huge number of u18 goals. A lot more limited in his general play, so a lot more similar to Ashley Fletcher than Greenwood.

I do find it strange from Juve's pov. Wouldn't Keane be a good squad member?

By KidA Seven Go To PostPoor Ellis Simms. A fetus aborted because of the adopted kid. Not like he was that great despite the huge number of u18 goals. A lot more limited in his general play, so a lot more similar to Ashley Fletcher than Greenwood.

I do find it strange from Juve's pov. Wouldn't Keane be a good squad member?

Maybe he's just Not Compatible With Ronaldo(tm).

By FootbalIFan Go To PostDoes anyone else here watch Judge Judy

I think I watched one episode a long time ago.

By Laboured Go To PostThink if you're the kind of United fan that loves McTom but gives Pogba shit on the regular then at least you're not going to mind finishing 8th this season.

That's a terrible opinion coming from you. There's really not a problem with being annoyed with a player that doesnt constantly perform, while praising a player that performs well.

By KidA Seven Go To PostI think I watched one episode a long time ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtG9MyFlIGg

damn

these kids go hard

By Flutter Go To PostThat's a terrible opinion coming from you. There's really not a problem with being annoyed with a player that doesnt constantly perform, while praising a player that performs well.

Sure, but surely that changes when we're in transfer season? The player who is better is the one who should be prioritized unless that person really doesn't get along with his teammates, or undermines the non-cunt manager during the season. I think McTominay's done really well this preseason, so we're speaking of him from last season where he wasn't showing this kind of passing. He's a lot more confident right now.

I'm also more understanding of players who aren't needed because they don't fit the coach's tactics, should those tactics not be Jurassic Park.

By Flutter Go To PostThat's a terrible opinion coming from you. There's really not a problem with being annoyed with a player that doesnt constantly perform, while praising a player that performs well.

Performing to the best of one's considerably limited abilities =/= "performing well". And that's exactly the kind of lowered standards and expectations some fans seem to want us to strive for.

Edit: just to add I do think McTom is showing signs of improvement and I may have misjudged his overall potential but he surely is not of the required ability at this very second.

Is the Tottenham fanbase the only one that doesn't internally fight?

By Shanks D Zoro Go To PostIs the Tottenham fanbase the only one that doesn't internally fight?

Liverpool?

By KidA Seven Go To PostLiverpool?

Dwingbat was fighting with other last season.

By Laboured Go To PostThink if you're the kind of United fan that loves McTom but gives Pogba shit on the regular then at least you're not going to mind finishing 8th this season.

Bang on. Imagine giving Pogba shit while loving McTominay.....McTominay of all people. Like I am glad with his improvement this preseason. He has grown a lot and, as KidA said, he will be a good squad option as he improves better but he is nowhere near as good as his role demands as Pogba is at his.
I mean I get it, Pogba is really good at what he does. I want to say a few things but KidA has said it all really. We need players to compliment Pogba. If you feel Pogba is the one with the problem in our midfield then I don't know what you have been watching. Pogba has his issues but seriously....

By KidA Seven Go To PostLiverpool?

oh please

hitch out here asking for rafa back still

I get where Flutters coming from and tend to agree, but McTominay is an astoundingly low point of comparison. On a graph showing quality and consistency, he'd be way too far up one side relative to the other.

More reports saying we are close to signing Mandzukic as Lukaku's replacement.

By Killer7 Go To PostMore reports saying we are close to signing Mandzukic as Lukaku's replacement.

Times say we're getting both.

[ESPN] Chelsea's Christian Pulisic is not your wonderboy anymore, he has surpassed Landon Donovan already. His ceiling is as high as Lionel Messi.

🤔🤔

By Laboured Go To PostTimes say we're getting both.

Link pls?

By Punished Go To Post🤔🤔

oh jesus christ

I got aids from reading that

By scently Go To PostLink pls?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/manchester-united-want-paulo-dybala-and-mario-mandzukic-for-romelu-lukaku-wgw9ft3h7

It's Castles who's been a bit 50/50 this summer.

By Laboured Go To PostPerforming to the best of one's considerably limited abilities =/= "performing well". And that's exactly the kind of lowered standards and expectations some fans seem to want us to strive for.

Dont be condescending Horse. If you think that being happy about McTom is somehow having lowered standards then you are just judging based on nothing while ignoring past posts about wanting United being successful again.

By rvy Go To Postoh please

hitch out here asking for rafa back still

Never stop dreaming

I don't think it's condescending to believe that McTominay is a bit shit