By Forever Go To PostThis is an interesting article on the subject.Really good article. Thanks for sharing.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostI will say that the most vocal people about atheism right now are total dickheads and I'm thinking of trying to become prominent in the atheist community just to counter and mock their hatred of women, transgender women, and Muslims.
What does it mean "prominent in the atheist community"? You're going to have a podcast, write a book?
In Europe, atheism is linked with the Left, so it's usually feminists, environmentalists, working-class activists, etc.
You're thinking of American internet trolls I guess. Geeky recluses are hardly a community. We know them because of gaf, but they're inconsequential. The growth of atheism in the US owes nothing to them. I have faith (:)) in newer generations.
I believe in a god, but I believe his origins are so far beyond our understanding of space and time that it's literally too abstract to even consider having any actual influence on our day to day lives.
Even this comparison is completely understating how in the dark we are, but it's like early caveman living on a small island seeking to come up with answers about the shape of the earth. Like...you don't even have the means to get to another continent. You don't even have the first idea of how to go about doing that.
That's where humanity is right now--to a far, far steeper degree.
Even this comparison is completely understating how in the dark we are, but it's like early caveman living on a small island seeking to come up with answers about the shape of the earth. Like...you don't even have the means to get to another continent. You don't even have the first idea of how to go about doing that.
That's where humanity is right now--to a far, far steeper degree.
By Gabyskra Go To PostWhat does it mean "prominent in the atheist community"? You're going to have a podcast, write a book?
In Europe, atheism is linked with the Left, so it's usually feminists, environmentalists, working-class activists, etc.
You're thinking of American internet trolls I guess. Geeky recluses are hardly a community. We know them because of gaf, but they're inconsequential. The growth of atheism in the US owes nothing to them. I have faith (:)) in newer generations.
I had a bad one day flu yesterday so my thoughts weren't entirely coherent by the end of the night so I'm not sure exactly what I meant, lol.
Donald J. Trump
.@FoxNews has been treating me very unfairly & I have therefore decided that I won't be doing any more Fox shows for the foreseeable future.
Ohh dear god please run third party.
*For an agnostic person I sure do you the phrase "dear god" a ton. lol
By Vahagn Go To PostI believe in God. Being an atheist takes too much of a leap of faith not to
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Atheism can only be proven if it can be proven that God has never ever existed. That is quite literally impossible.
You'd have to start by disproving every single religious experience in the pantheon of human history as fraudulent - which in itself is an impossible task for obvious reasons. Even then, all you've proven is that God hasn't in fact communicated with humans, rather than God doesn't exist.
If any religious experience, any vision, any enlightenment, any miracle or prayer answered is legitimate, even one. Then atheism fails in its most basic premise.
I'm a religious studies major, you're asking me to believe, with no proof, that every scripture, every believer, every guru, every experience is full of shit. Requires too much of a leap of faith
You'd have to start by disproving every single religious experience in the pantheon of human history as fraudulent - which in itself is an impossible task for obvious reasons. Even then, all you've proven is that God hasn't in fact communicated with humans, rather than God doesn't exist.
If any religious experience, any vision, any enlightenment, any miracle or prayer answered is legitimate, even one. Then atheism fails in its most basic premise.
I'm a religious studies major, you're asking me to believe, with no proof, that every scripture, every believer, every guru, every experience is full of shit. Requires too much of a leap of faith
By Vahagn Go To PostThe absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Atheism can only be proven if it can be proven that God has never ever existed. That is quite literally impossible.
That's not the scientific method. That's a logical fallacy. The same one as saying:
- i'm protected by the ghost of Moses Malone.
- can't be.
- Prove that it's not! You can't!
You don't "prove" non-existence, but you can infer it from experience. As in, every living second of your life spent without "God".
Science is not the absolute definitive truth, it's just one step closer to it with every experiment.
You rely on saying that "just one miracle" would prove God. Then find one.
Additionally, conveniently, your set of beliefs is probably the one you happened to be born into. Not Zeus, not Buddha, etc (could be Phil Jackson tho). The multiplicity of religions is not proof that one of them is right, it's more of a sign that God is created by people, not that God created people.
Definitely explains the kind of moral absolutism you pulled on the forum a few weeks ago.
IWMTB, get in here.
Vahagn: In my view, superstition and religious belief are hardwired into us. It's how our brains naturally work.
We see patterns in things that aren't there. We draw conclusions of causation from mere coincidence all the time. Before the advent of science, the best explanation for natural phenomena was the supernatural. The sun is pulled across the sky by a chariot, famines and natural disasters happen because the gods are displeased, etc.
There are also practical emotional reasons we believe in gods and the afterlife: when your friends and family members die it's only a temporary separation. When you die you'll go to paradise as long as you're a good person... and you're a good person, right?
Believers: humans.
Experiences: human and subjective.
I'm not saying they're full of shit, I simply think there's no evidence for the supernatural dogma, including the existence of all-powerful beings. Many of their teachings reflect common human experiences, and many religious texts are worthy of study and even enjoyment as works of art.
But the burden of proof should be on believers, not vice versa. There is no direct evidence of the existence of the supernatural, and there never has been.
Vahagn: In my view, superstition and religious belief are hardwired into us. It's how our brains naturally work.
We see patterns in things that aren't there. We draw conclusions of causation from mere coincidence all the time. Before the advent of science, the best explanation for natural phenomena was the supernatural. The sun is pulled across the sky by a chariot, famines and natural disasters happen because the gods are displeased, etc.
There are also practical emotional reasons we believe in gods and the afterlife: when your friends and family members die it's only a temporary separation. When you die you'll go to paradise as long as you're a good person... and you're a good person, right?
I'm a religious studies major, you're asking me to believe, with no proof, that every scripture, every believer, every guru, every experience is full of shit without the requisite proof. Requires too much of a leap of faithScripture: written by humans.
Believers: humans.
Experiences: human and subjective.
I'm not saying they're full of shit, I simply think there's no evidence for the supernatural dogma, including the existence of all-powerful beings. Many of their teachings reflect common human experiences, and many religious texts are worthy of study and even enjoyment as works of art.
But the burden of proof should be on believers, not vice versa. There is no direct evidence of the existence of the supernatural, and there never has been.
Thankfully I'm an agnostic so I don't have to prove or disprove the absence or presence of anything. So while I agree that atheism takes a leap of faith as well, your claim that one takes a larger leap of faith than the other is a giant crock of shit.
I mean, duh? Even as an agnostic I don't think any of the above is authentic. It's also impossible for your to prove any of the above is real as well. Personal experience with prayer and other instances can be written off easily as delusion (possession or belief that one has spoken to god) or confirmation bias (My prayers were answered while children starve in 3rd world countries). Scripture is ancient text passed down from people who had almost zero understanding of the natural world around them.
By Vahagn Go To PostIf any religious experience, any vision, any enlightenment, any miracle or prayer answered is legitimate, even one. Then atheism fails in its most basic premise.
I mean, duh? Even as an agnostic I don't think any of the above is authentic. It's also impossible for your to prove any of the above is real as well. Personal experience with prayer and other instances can be written off easily as delusion (possession or belief that one has spoken to god) or confirmation bias (My prayers were answered while children starve in 3rd world countries). Scripture is ancient text passed down from people who had almost zero understanding of the natural world around them.
By KingGondo Go To PostVahagn: In my view, superstition and religious belief are hardwired into us. It's how our brains naturally work.
Religion is cultural. It's tautological to say that.
There are some people who say that "belief" and "superstition" are an evolutionary advantage, but it's not very serious IMO.
By Gabyskra Go To PostReligion is cultural. It's tautological to say that.OK, I'll say it this way: in the absence of education and guidance from our parents/teachers/elders, human beings make lots of mistaken assumptions about the way the world works. Some of these assumptions make us susceptible to religious belief.
There are some people who say that "belief" and "superstition" are an evolutionary advantage, but it's not very serious IMO.
We've gradually erased much of that with the advancement of civilization, but I view religion/spirituality/whatever as a useful tool in the big, scary, cold, uncaring universe.
Also, perhaps we should move this discussion over here since it isn't directly related to politics?
http://slaent.com/thread/421613/
With all due respect, this is mostly nonsense. You're giving me your explanations for why you're an atheist, not proof.
The burden of proof isn't on believers at all. The burden of proof is on unbelievers because it's the far more difficult viewpoint to hold.
Replace God with aliens. Everything we know about aliens or believe about aliens is a human invention. A figment of our imaginations. In literature and movies.
Does that mean that we've PROVEN that aliens don't exist? Of course not. Because the only way to PROVE that they don't exist is to inspect every land mass in the universe simultaneously. And even then, you're talking about this snapshot in time. It's an impossible thing to prove.
Atheism is the same way. You can give me explanations and rationalizations but none of that is proof. Proof would be, again, refuting every single religious experience in the pantheon of human history individually as invalid. Not making broad strokes generalizations.
I get why people are atheists, but to suggest that atheism is a proven fact, or can ever be a proven fact, is abandoning the very scientific principles people hold dear.
Now we're arguing about religions. That's not the argument. The argument is whether or not one can PROVE in the scientific sense in the non existence of God. The answer is no.
It takes a leap of faith, and generalizations made by (usually) people with no education on the matter to reach that conclusion.
The burden of proof isn't on believers at all. The burden of proof is on unbelievers because it's the far more difficult viewpoint to hold.
Replace God with aliens. Everything we know about aliens or believe about aliens is a human invention. A figment of our imaginations. In literature and movies.
Does that mean that we've PROVEN that aliens don't exist? Of course not. Because the only way to PROVE that they don't exist is to inspect every land mass in the universe simultaneously. And even then, you're talking about this snapshot in time. It's an impossible thing to prove.
Atheism is the same way. You can give me explanations and rationalizations but none of that is proof. Proof would be, again, refuting every single religious experience in the pantheon of human history individually as invalid. Not making broad strokes generalizations.
I get why people are atheists, but to suggest that atheism is a proven fact, or can ever be a proven fact, is abandoning the very scientific principles people hold dear.
Now we're arguing about religions. That's not the argument. The argument is whether or not one can PROVE in the scientific sense in the non existence of God. The answer is no.
It takes a leap of faith, and generalizations made by (usually) people with no education on the matter to reach that conclusion.
By Vahagn Go To PostThe argument is whether or not one can PROVE in the scientific sense in the non existence of God. The answer is no.
Don't use the word science if you don't know what it is.
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2980583-155/state-penalized-200k-for-non-compliance-with
My state penalized 200k for not giving a shit about prison rape, fuck my state on this.
My state penalized 200k for not giving a shit about prison rape, fuck my state on this.
By Fenderputty Go To PostOnly 200K? lol
Yeah, the fine is pathetically low.
Rich Lowry on the Trump saying Fiorina was a shit CEO: "He's just mad she cut his balls off during the debate."
These are three terrible people so hopefully this ends poorly for everyone.
These are three terrible people so hopefully this ends poorly for everyone.
By IWMTB19 Go To Posthttp://www.sltrib.com/home/2980583-155/state-penalized-200k-for-non-compliance-with"specifically a mandate that prison workers entering secured facilities with opposite gender inmates announce their presence, and auditing requirements that the state deemed onerous."
My state penalized 200k for not giving a shit about prison rape, fuck my state on this.
what the fuck is this and how is it not giving a shit about prison rape?
Auditing prisons seems important considering how terrible they are and how frequent prison rape is.
Maybe my original statement is hyperbolic, but I'm frustrated at Utah not following through on federal mandates to reduce prison rape as I take it as another sign that we don't care about prisoners (especially after this embarrassing, "where will we move the prison?!" saga).
Maybe my original statement is hyperbolic, but I'm frustrated at Utah not following through on federal mandates to reduce prison rape as I take it as another sign that we don't care about prisoners (especially after this embarrassing, "where will we move the prison?!" saga).
Jeb Bush says multiculturalism is the wrong approach for America.
As a Canadian living in Toronto, fuckin' lol.
As a Canadian living in Toronto, fuckin' lol.
The licensing debate is being heavily distorted on That Other Forum. Friedman argued that medical licensing was a joke that massively limited the supply of doctors, therefore driving up the price of medical services. By forcing doctors to go to school for so many years at such a high cost (and by limiting the number of people who can become doctors) you won't have many doctors. Friedman had an overly optimistic view of people's willingness and ability to shop for medical care, but he was right that licensing is out of control and should be scaled back dramatically (in my opinion, to only where it is overwhelmingly important).
For anyone with interest in the economics of health, Arrow's piece is a great place to start:
https://www.aeaweb.org/aer/top20/53.5.941-973.pdf
For anyone with interest in the economics of health, Arrow's piece is a great place to start:
https://www.aeaweb.org/aer/top20/53.5.941-973.pdf
RT @AnnCoulter: THIS Pope's philosophy of worshiping the poor, blaming the rich leads to Latin American poverty. American Catholicism leads to success.
-_-
-_-
Anyone see Shep Smith's response? It was trending on FB earlier I think. I have no idea how he still has a job at Fox.
By reilo Go To PostRT @AnnCoulter: THIS Pope's philosophy of worshiping the poor, blaming the rich leads to Latin American poverty. American Catholicism leads to success.
-_-
That's amazing.
I met a whole lot of Jesuits in the US last year since I worked at Georgetown, and obviously they loved having one of theirs as the pope...
Drudge Report, Federalist hop on the idea that the Pope isn't a REAL Catholic:
https://twitter.com/Drudge_Report_/status/647129279151636480
lmao.
https://twitter.com/Drudge_Report_/status/647129279151636480
lmao.
He didn't mention the almighty Reagan either. I think it's safe to say the pope isn't a very pious individual.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostDrudge Report, Federalist hop on the idea that the Pope isn't a REAL Catholic:#Jesus #Christ
https://twitter.com/Drudge_Report_/status/647129279151636480
lmao.
Come on, drop payroll taxes and replace them with Land taxes, it makes perfect economic sense and would help reduce inequality...
Scott Walker shouldn't have dropped out either #BuildthatCanadianWall
By IWMTB19 Go To PostCome on, drop payroll taxes and replace them with Land taxes, it makes perfect economic sense and would help reduce inequality…
Did a candidate say that?
No, that's what I want, voters just want the rich to pay more taxes in general, I want the form of it to follow my suggestion since it's more efficient economically.
That poll illustrates how powerful identity politics and conservative social issues are to a large group of people. If that graph accurately reflected voting patterns Dems would never lose.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostNo, that's what I want, voters just want the rich to pay more taxes in general, I want the form of it to follow my suggestion since it's more efficient economically.
Wealth is not proportional to ownership of land at all. Dude, come on :)
By Gabyskra Go To PostWealth is not proportional to ownership of land at all. Dude, come on :)
It actually is?
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-03/to-fight-inequality-tax-land
http://www.landandliberty.net/12/joseph-stiglitz-responds-to-thomas-picketty/
Looks like Canadian plant Ted Cruz is getting ready to take another hostage in the form of blocking spending to Planned Parenthood.
Really interested to see how a truly far right presidential candidate performs in a general election. McCain was too soft and capitulated to Obama. Mitt Romney was Mormon and not enough of a far right candidate. Lord help us if Donald Trump runs.
Really interested to see how a truly far right presidential candidate performs in a general election. McCain was too soft and capitulated to Obama. Mitt Romney was Mormon and not enough of a far right candidate. Lord help us if Donald Trump runs.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostIt actually is?
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-03/to-fight-inequality-tax-land
http://www.landandliberty.net/12/joseph-stiglitz-responds-to-thomas-picketty/
I'm curious how this would work. What about the old couple who's lived in a place for 30 years and had their land value shoot up? What about the middle class family in California compared to the middle class family in Texas or Arizona? I basically live paycheck to paycheck to own a home in California. I don't move because A. there's labor here and B. my entire family is here including still living grandparents. I bought in 2008 when values were heavily depressed. My wealth is all in equity and almost none liquid.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostIt actually is?
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-03/to-fight-inequality-tax-land
http://www.landandliberty.net/12/joseph-stiglitz-responds-to-thomas-picketty/
Stiglitz is saying the growth in value of land is a product of inequality produced by the financial system. It's an effect (so it's not the same thing as what Matthew Rognlie and other neoliberals have argued). He's saying land taxes can be good, not that income taxes should be replaced by them. I think he's overly optimistic about the value of such a solution anyway, since inequality is a result of power positions, if it's not through the appreciation of land property, it can be elsewhere. For people such as Fenderputty, a measure like this can be a burden on the middle class. When fantastic wealth is won by capitalists, this does not translate into land immediately...
A middle class family in Cali usually gets paid more so they would experience more tax breaks from removal in payroll taxes. And being isn't always correlated with owning expensive land, but it usually is.
In less fun to discuss news:
#BlackTransLivesMatter wall vandalized and a threat is put on there.
In less fun to discuss news:
#BlackTransLivesMatter wall vandalized and a threat is put on there.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostA middle class family in Cali usually gets paid more so they would experience more tax breaks from removal in payroll taxes. And being isn't always correlated with owning expensive land, but it usually is.
In less fun to discuss news:
#BlackTransLivesMatter wall vandalized and a threat is put on there.
saw this....
basically
All Lives Matter or We'll Kill You
Yessssssss, I'm going to be able to shut up the "What about China????" people from now on:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/world/asia/xi-jinping-china-president-obama-summit.html?_r=0
Good step forward.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/world/asia/xi-jinping-china-president-obama-summit.html?_r=0
Good step forward.
By IWMTB19 Go To PostA middle class family in Cali usually gets paid more so they would experience more tax breaks from removal in payroll taxes. And being isn't always correlated with owning expensive land, but it usually is.
.
Yeah I would need to see some numbers on this. My gut reaction is that this would fuck me pretty hard. Housing in Cali is going insane. A lot more insane than my salary has increased. A lot
Hmm, I'll try to run some numbers on how the distribution effects would go if we got rid of payroll taxes and replaced them by taxing the value of land.
....That may take awhile though, lol.
....That may take awhile though, lol.