Politics | 2014-15

Ezra Klein said some stuff. It was cool

Did PD criticize it?

I really hate how so many liberals are knee jerking against the TPP and talking shit about Obama. As if he doesn't get enough of that from the right.

If Podemos ever win the elections here, I'll leave the country.

By Forever Go To PostI really hate how so many liberals are knee jerking against the TPP and talking shit about Obama. As if he doesn't get enough of that from the right.

I mean, we should probably wait and see, but he's not helping his case. It's been super secretive and what's been leaked looks kinda shitty.

Thankfully the SCOTUS didn't blow up the ACA this morning. Though it would have been interesting to watch the GOP squirm trying to get something to replace it.


EDIT: The SCOTUS also ruled on a pretty big civil rights case today. Such a weird court.

Is this thread only for American politics? Limited knowledge there.

I know I won't get much response to Irish politics but is EU and English stuff fair game?

lol ... there aren't even responses for American politics in here.

Former Baltimore cop just letting it all flow out on twitter.

Link

So apparently Gay marriage is legal in the US now

and I really needed to go to the clerks office today to get my car tags renewed:(

What do the Americans here think of Obama?

As an outsider, I think he's great. Few dodgy policies but they seem to be lose/lose ones (correct me if I'm wrong), and obstructed by the House on an awful lot of things.

I think he's been mediocre, I know he's been hamstrung but theres plenty he could have been firmer on. One of the most notable things he's done is stack the federal judges.

Is everyone ready for cheap holidays to Greece?

By nate Go To PostWhat do the Americans here think of Obama?

As an outsider, I think he's great. Few dodgy policies but they seem to be lose/lose ones (correct me if I'm wrong), and obstructed by the House on an awful lot of things.

Hard to knock him too hard considering the obstruction from the two lower houses. In general I've been happy though. Hopefully another Dem can further move the needle to the left.

I love Obama. He's done a great many things for us here at home.

But he's also had a hugely negative effect on the countries we've occupied during his entire administration. He'll leave office as the bloodiest US President since Truman bombed Japan. A lot of that can be blamed on his predecessor(s), but most of it is just out and out warfare branded and sold in the name of protecting America. Incredibly hard decisions all around to make, I just wish there was a better solution than motivating the next generation of potential global threats.

By Fenderputty Go To PostI mean, we should probably wait and see, but he's not helping his case. It's been super secretive and what's been leaked looks kinda shitty.

The alternative is not the status quo, the alternative is allowing China to slowly establish new global normative trade rules which are guaranteed to be tilted in favor of developing nations and contain much fewer worker protections than the ones we have made standard and are pushing for in the TPP. On labor, the environment, whatever concern you might raise, the Chinese alternatives are significantly worse. Without the TPP our leverage to negotiate our priorities will evaporate over time as the rest of the world moves on without us.

If we get the TPP passed then we instantly have 40% of the global economy playing by rules we have written. This will be the new standard in the Pacific Rim, and despite their current posturing it's probably inevitable that China would eventually have to bend and join it.

Furthermore from a foreign policy perspective the TPP would give us a whole lot of soft power to influence events in the region, which could pay dividends for decades to come. The Singaporeans explain it well:

Singapore's Foreign Minister K. Shanmugam said on Monday it was vital that the United States be able to pass the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement if it wanted to stay engaged with the Asia Pacific region and be taken seriously there.

"It’s absolutely vital to get it done," he told Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies think thank. "If you don't do this deal, what are your levers of power?"

"The choice is a very stark one – do you want to be part of the region, or do you want to be out of the region? And if you are out of the region … your only lever to shape the architecture, to influence events, is the (U.S.) Seventh Fleet and that’s not the lever you want to use," he said.

Someday all of the territorial saber rattling in the Pacific is going to come to a head. This might sound dramatic, but there is a real chance that the TPP could help prevent war.

If you believe as Obama does that the Asia Pacific is going to be the most important region in the 21st century then the TPP is a no brainer despite its flaws. You don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

By nate Go To PostWhat do the Americans here think of Obama?

As an outsider, I think he's great. Few dodgy policies but they seem to be lose/lose ones (correct me if I'm wrong), and obstructed by the House on an awful lot of things.

If it wasn't obvious already I'm a huge fan of Obama. I volunteered for his campaign in 2012 and knocked on doors for him. I love his pragmatic approach; when ideology and reality clash he tends to favor reality, which reflects a maturity that most of our politicians do not have. He's not a crusading liberal, which is what some people expected, but he is the adult in the room in Washington. I believe that his good motivations remain pure.

I don't think we'll ever have another president that I like so much personally. My political leanings are pretty centrist on the global scale (maybe even right of center), but American Republicans are so fucking crazy that I can't stand them.

The moment Obama found out about the healthcare ruling:

By Mangoverboard Go To PostIs this thread only for American politics? Limited knowledge there.

I know I won't get much response to Irish politics but is EU and English stuff fair game?

I don't see why not. Might be interesting to have it all in one place; more points of view, more perspectives.

What Obama did during the first two years of his presidency was nothing short of liberal ideas passed at a rapid pace while also saving the economy from a Great Depression level event.

What's happened since, is the fault of lazy ass liberal citizens who allowed the House and then eventually the Senate to go to the Republicans. If the first two years were any indication, we could have had the greatest liberal president since FDR and LBJ but we rested on our laurels.

For better or for worse, Obama has done a better job of resisting republican efforts at compromise than Clinton did. And considering Clinton's worst decisions were in adopting conservative compromises and values (increasing the scope and power of the war on drugs, repealing Glass Steagall, welfare reform) I have to think, on balance, That's a good thing

By Vahagn Go To PostWhat Obama did during the first two years of his presidency was nothing short of liberal ideas passed at a rapid pace while also saving the economy from a Great Depression level event.

What's happened since, is the fault of lazy ass liberal citizens who allowed the House and then eventually the Senate to go to the Republicans. If the first two years were any indication, we could have had the greatest liberal president since FDR and LBJ but we rested on our laurels.

For better or for worse, Obama has done a better job of resisting republican efforts at compromise than Clinton did. And considering Clinton's worst decisions were in adopting conservative compromises and values (increasing the scope and power of the war on drugs, repealing Glass Steagall, welfare reform) I have to think, on balance, That's a good thing

Obama's spanked Republicans at historic levels. He allows them to get small victories and then reminds them who the POTUS is.

---

For me Obama is a legendary President. He's brought us so many rage tears over the years from conservatives and racists. He's been right about everything in the long run. I wish he used the nuclear option earlier and decreased filibusters at the start. Obama stopped the recession. He got the economy back on track after the bullshit that was 2008.

Hopefully Americans go out and vote in large numbers and do not elect another Republican President or all this progress goes down the drain.

I'm about to read the sequel to game change which encapsulates the mood at the time.

Meh, sounds like our (Citizens Climate Lobby) lobbying at DC this week didn't go that awesome. Better than last year but people in our organization seemed to expect a slightly better result this year.

Black Churches Going Up in Flames in the South

n the week and a half following white supremacist Dylann Storm Roof's gun rampage through Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, which killed nine people, it looks like other terrible individuals may have taken up his mantle to spread violence and hate against other black congregations.

The Southern Poverty Law Center's Hatewatch blog reports that as of Friday, "a string of nighttime fires have damaged or destroyed at least six predominately black churches in four southern states in the past week." Investigators have determined at least three of the fires were set by arsonists.

Given the timing of the fires, which coincided with the aftermath in Charleston and subsequent public calls for the removal of the Confederate flag from Southern government buildings, the law center labeled them "suspicious and possible hate crimes.":

Hey at least the KKK will hold a confederate flag protest at SC. lol Morons.

By Vahagn Go To PostWhat Obama did during the first two years of his presidency was nothing short of liberal ideas passed at a rapid pace while also saving the economy from a Great Depression level event.

What's happened since, is the fault of lazy ass liberal citizens who allowed the House and then eventually the Senate to go to the Republicans. If the first two years were any indication, we could have had the greatest liberal president since FDR and LBJ but we rested on our laurels.

For better or for worse, Obama has done a better job of resisting republican efforts at compromise than Clinton did. And considering Clinton's worst decisions were in adopting conservative compromises and values (increasing the scope and power of the war on drugs, repealing Glass Steagall, welfare reform) I have to think, on balance, That's a good thing

Yeah a lot of blame he gets for not being liberal enough in those first two years is misplaced as well. The idea that dems controlled all three houses is kind of a half truth. I mean Joe fucking lieberman was a dem at the time. Dems don't just fall in line behind their leader like the GOP does either.

Libs never come out in mid terms. A lot of blame can be placed on apathy. Gerrymandering didn't help either. The 2012 election was an example. I believe dems won the popular vote in the house and still lost seats.

The "Not Liberal Enough" President has:

- Stimulus Act
- Affordable Healthcare Act
- Gay Marriage equality
- Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
- Expansion of hate crimes act
- Ban on assault rifles
- Iran nuclear agreement
- Keystone XL Pipeline veto
- Capital Gains taxes raised/top bracket income taxes raised

On his resume. He's not perfect, but "not liberal enough" feels like wishful thinking at times.

Most of the "not liberal enough" stuff stems from the corporate handout Obamacare became. The lack of cost controlling measures due to sellouts to Big Pharma etc etc. It was sold to the public as a single payer system during his campaign. This is one of the reasons I brought up his first two years. I feel it's unrealistic to view those first two years as though single payer was a political reality. It wasn't. He got us the best he could, even though it's not perfect. I think he's pretty centrist, but I think that's more out of necessity than out of desire.

I think his biggest fault is trying to work across the isles. The GOP never wanted to work with him. They obstructed at every opportunity so he couldn't hang his hat on bipartisanship. Obstruct obstruct obstruct and then paint him as a socialist who isn't willing to compromise.

I think he's learned this though and it shows during his second term. I hope he does an executive order lifting the wage limit to consider someone exempt. Would be huge for the middle and lower class.

Some other things on his watch though revolves around most whistleblowers prosecuted and even more intrusive surveillance of citizens.

By db Go To PostSome other things on his watch though revolves around most whistleblowers prosecuted and even more intrusive surveillance of citizens.

The far left really needs to get over its hero worship of shitbags like Snowden. Who has actually benefited from that dumb shit? Not you or me. He's not a whistleblower and certainly not some champion of freedom, he's a fucking traitor who ran into the open arms of one of the most shamelessly authoritarian strongmen on the planet. Same goes for Assange and Ecuador; hypocrites of the worst kind.

Yea, the Snowden worship always felt a bit off to me especially after he fled to Russia. How are you gonna claim to be a champion of civil liberties and accept asylum from one of the absolute worst offenders?

A liberal doesn't need to like Snowden to dislike the expansion of the patriot act.

My guilty pleasure is going on Politico comments sections, pretending to be a rightwing nut, and seeing how many upvotes I can get by spewing the craziest fucking shit.

By Fenderputty Go To PostA liberal doesn't need to like Snowden to dislike the expansion of the patriot act.

Yo this, not even bringing up Snowden here. Don't act like he's the sole whistleblower. And that we haven't strayed into fascist town even more under Obama. If there's one thing I'd really like it's being upfront and honest about democrats failures in various avenues, including PACs and Patriot Act bullshit.

By db Go To PostYo this, not even bringing up Snowden here. Don't act like he's the sole whistleblower.

I'm not a fan of any of them.

By db Go To PostAnd that we haven't strayed into fascist town even more under Obama.

Yeah, I think this probably isn't going to be a productive debate to have.

By db Go To PostIf there's one thing I'd really like it's being upfront and honest about democrats failures in various avenues, including PACs

This however is demonstrably wrong. Obama and the Democrats have been consistent in their opposition to SuperPACs, and Obama himself was personally reluctant to use them in 2012 until he learned what Romney was projected to raise. It's all in Game Change 2012.

What exactly have they failed at? What do you want them to do? Assassinate Scalia and replace him with Goodwin Liu? If they don't use SuperPACs themselves then welcome your new Republican overlords. Obama has no blame in this.

Assange is a loser that I hate, but I think Obama is cracking down too hard on whistleblowers.

Other than that, my main issue with the Obama administration have been:

-Extreme expansion of fracking in the United States.
-Continued long-term engagement in combat in the Middle East despite complete lack of success.
-Lack of boots on the ground in the Ukraine.

I think my first three complaints are reasonable, but I know literally no one else wants a war with Russia. But America is still good at traditional warfare (which defending the Ukraine would be) and is terrible at modern, jihadist warfare (which is where we're spending all of resources). But overall, I like him now.

Here's Citizens Climate Lobby continuing our desperate attempt to get Republicans to pass our proposal:

http://citizensclimatelobby.org/everything-you-think-you-know-about-republicans-and-climate-change-is-wrong/?utm_content=bufferfbbd1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

We have to be one of the few environmental groups that spends 80-90% of our time talking to Republican politicians, lol.

Super pacs are part of the game. Can't get mad until the electorate demands campaign finance reform.

However, the expansion of the patriot act is fair game. Are you gonna defend that?

There have been 7 killed in murder suicides in Utah where a man killed his entire family and then himself over the last month.

I don't like guns...

The Super Pac shit sucks, but this is why it's so important to understand what political ideologies stand for.

When welfare gets cut, it's not because Obama/Democrats tried to cut it.

When Fracking expands, it's not because Obama/Democrats pushed it through.

When Dems use SuperPacs it's not because they support unlimited money in politics.

Much in the same way that a conservative Supreme Court allowing gay marriage doesn't mean conservatives are champions of LGBT rights.

Shit happens in the political realm out of necessity, timing, or political gamesmanship.

Obama has flaws, but a blanket statement about "not being liberal enough" is idiotic. We're not half brained conservatives striving for ideological purity.

It's probably good I got banned for two weeks when I did. That Bernie Sanders thread in the OT man.

The new Florida SC decision on redistricting is pretty big. Might be a loss of about 2-3 GOP seats? A couple more states do this and maybe the House won't be so solidly red.

GOP senators vow to block U.S. from complying with global climate deal

>:(

A summary of Clinton's upcoming economic platform speech:

But even though markets have thrived and unemployment has drooped under Obama, her primary focus will be middle-class incomes that have barely outpaced inflation over the last four decades, a problem she will describe as the defining economic challenge facing the next president.

The campaign provided an unmistakably left-leaning list of advisers who were consulted about the speech and the economic agenda Clinton plans to roll out in the coming weeks. They included some of Obama’s most liberal former aides, like Christina Romer, who chaired his Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, who was Vice President Biden’s chief economist. They also included progressive economists like Joseph Stiglitz, Jacob Hacker and Heather Boushey. Clinton plans to refer to the prosperity America enjoyed during her husband Bill’s presidency, but Wall Street-friendly Clintonworld centrists like former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin were notably absent from the list.

/rolleyes:

“In the Obama economy, the typical American household has seen its income decline,” said Bush campaign spokeswoman Kristy Campbell. “Hillary Clinton is proposing the same failed policies that are stagnating growth and making it harder for businesses to hire and the middle class to achieve rising incomes.”

/rolleyes

At the New School, Clinton will introduce a three-part strategy for boosting wages that will signal the kinds of policies she’s likely to unveil in the near future.

The first part of the strategy is to increase investment in good-paying jobs while reducing barriers that can deter Americans, especially women, from joining the workforce. She will voice support for small business tax relief, an infrastructure bank that could generate construction jobs while improving the competitiveness of the economy, and clean energy projects that reduce carbon emissions while putting people to work. At the same time, she will foreshadow proposals to expand child care, paid family leave and paid sick days, citing surveys suggesting that nearly half of working parents have passed up jobs that conflicted with family obligations. She will point out that America’s labor participation rate for women has dropped from 7th to 19th among developed nations since 1990, and will argue that it’s become too hard for Americans to be good workers and good parents at the same time.

The second part of Clinton’s strategy will address inequality, a hot issue in progressive circles, although her focus will remain on the middle class rather than the poor.

The third plank of the strategy is a bit less predictable, a push for longer-term thinking in the business world. Clinton will denounce the mindset of “quarterly capitalism,” where executives (particularly on Wall Street) focus on making a quick buck rather than building lasting value, creating “bubble-driven growth” that could evaporate quickly.

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/07/hillarynomics-a-sneak-preview-000142

She's moving to the left. It's good. I think she'll need to focus on the poor as well as the middle class, but it's good she's addressing the middle class as well.

Greek Parliament voting on the new bailout package right now. Live dub in English.

Tsipras getting some well deserved roasting from an angry lady asking why he treated the negotiations like a fucking game.

I would be protesting in the streets if I were Greek. Unbelievable what their government did after the referendum.

They need out of that shitty currency ASAP

By Fenderputty Go To PostI would be protesting in the streets if I were Greek. Unbelievable what their government did after the referendum.

I find it more unbelievable how they conducted themselves like children during the negotiations.

Before SYRIZA was elected the markets were recovering and Greek bonds were going up, that's not spin, it's measurable fact. People weren't feeling it yet but the worst was over. Now they've scared off most of the tourists, shut down the banks, rejected better deals on the table only to sign on at the last minute to this pile of misery.

I hope other European countries learn from this and remember to elect adults from now on.

Ehh I think their used to that. They should be. Voting no to austerity and then watching their goverment sign on to worse austerity than the origional package is mind blowing though.

By Fenderputty Go To PostEhh I think their used to that. They should be. Voting no to austerity and then watching their goverment sign on to worse austerity than the origional package is mind blowing though.

Because SYRIZA were fucking idiots and thought that they had more leverage than they did. They had jack shit. Meanwhile they were swinging their dick and calling the IMF criminals and accusing Germany of terrorism, then their bluff got called and look how quick they folded.

Even the US Republicans were more tactful when trying to take the debt ceiling hostage. What a bunch of clowns.

All politics aside, i have no idea why anyone wants to be a member of the Eurozone. especially after watching this unfold.

By Fenderputty Go To PostAll politics aside, i have no idea why anyone wants to be a member of the Eurozone. especially after watching this unfold.

Monetary union without fiscal union is a bad idea, always was. There's a case to be made that fiscal union would be easier to achieve without Greece, which is why Germany and so many other countries were ready to dump their dumb asses out on the curb.

Germany has played a roll in this as well. They benefit heavily from the devalued Euro. It's a half ass monetary union without fiscal Union and political unification to make it work. I'm with krugman on the Grexit

Haha you and I are posting simultaneously.

By Fenderputty Go To PostGermany has played a roll in this as well. They benefit heavily from the devalued Euro. It's a half ass monetary union without fiscal Union and political unification to make it work. I'm with krugman on the Grexit

Long term the math says they'd be better off, but a Grexit would be no less devastating in the short term and then you're looking at a real possibility of civil war. Greeks were told during the referendum that it wouldn't come to that; if it all fell apart they'd start to turn on each other.

I will say though, if Tsipras wasn't willing to follow through on the threat of a Grexit then he had no business pulling any of the ridiculous stunts he did. It really reminds me of the debt ceiling shit, except then at least we knew Obama cared about America. I'm not sure Merkel gives a shit about Greece, and yet Tsipras thought she would fold easier? What an idiot.

Why would Merkel or her people care about the Greeks? Without proper unification like we states have (transfer credits via fiscal Union) there's no reason to. I don't blame the German people either, though I do think Merkel had an opportunity to help strengthen the union, even if it meant her job. It's weird, I think Germany benefits from the continued facade that the monetary union is a viable one, economically at least. I think the Greeks figured this too so they thought everyone would cave after the referendum. Who knows, politics and economics don't always align.

I'm thinking is long term. The short term blows with a Grexit or with agreeing to these bullshit austerity measures. There's already talk about a mass outward migration of Greek youth with more austerity. That's gonna fuck their prospective ability to rebuild too.

By Fenderputty Go To PostWhy would Merkel or her people care about the Greeks? Without proper unification like we states have (transfer credits via fiscal Union) there's no reason to.

Europeans have this romantic idea of continental unity, which is why the original bailouts occurred in the first place. It's a nice sentiment but it's rarely been backed by sound policy. Tsipras evidently thought that mattered to Merkel a lot more than it actually does.

By Fenderputty Go To PostI don't blame the German people either, though I do think Merkel had an opportunity to help strengthen the union, even if it meant her job. It's weird, I think Germany benefits from the continued facade that the monetary union is a viable one, economically at least. I think the Greeks figured this too so they thought everyone would cave after the referendum. Who knows, politics and economics don't always align.

When the referendum was called I thought Tsipras might be a true believer, willing to go down with his country. Now that it's obvious how desperate he really was to stay in the Eurozone, I can only conclude that he was an utterly incompetent moron who was counting on a "Yes" vote. He wanted to give in to the demands, but he didn't want to take the blame, so he tried to pass the buck back to the people. Nice going dumbass.

By Fenderputty Go To PostI'm thinking is long term. The short term blows with a Grexit or with agreeing to these bullshit austerity measures. There's already talk about a mass outward migration of Greek youth with more austerity. That's gonna fuck their prospective ability to rebuild too.

The referendum already divided Greeks against each other. I don't see how Grexit followed by the inevitable short term catastrophe doesn't end in civil war. Then Tsipras would go down not only as a fuckwit who made his country poorer, but as one who literally tore it apart.