Discussing race online
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Even though I'm in my mid-30s, I've only really started participating in online forums in the past 2 years. I joined GAF in 2013, Slaent last year and lurk the Coli for laughs and smileys. I have a reddit account but usually only look at links or r/kappa. One thing that remains constant everywhere online (but here) is that discussions about race are never productive. People who aren't affected by discrimination are often unsympathetic and only able to view issues academically. They will often say ignorant things (sometimes unwittingly, other times intentionally) and then get defensive when taken to task. Those affected often and understandably get passionate, and depending on the atmosphere of the discussion space are then attacked for being passionate, especially if the discussion space prioritizes civility above all else. Then you have scavenger types who only peek their heads in to snipe at something said without offerring any opinion or commentary of their own.
When speaking in person, or at least to people you know, there is a minimum of respect and mutual understanding that is all but non-existent in most online discussion spaces. I think that because of this, the most anyone can realistically hope for is a few chuckles at something incredibly stupid said by someone participating and maybe the dissemination of facts by someone level-headed. There are a few people out there for whom cold, hard facts can actually have an effect on how they view racial interactions and systems set up to affect different people in different ways, but more often than not the vocal participants wear very thick ignorance armor, while the smarter, or at least craftier people, avoid the discussion altogether. The size of discussion spaces and quality of the participants, including moderation if applicable, shape the quality of discussion about any subject but I personally feel that race is one subject that, when brought before the general public (including various countries), tends to go no where relevant.
Thoughts?
This topic is timely, though I have to disagree and say that only among adults my age and below (31) is there an amicable exchange on the topic of race. Older white folks are having none of it. I'm pretty high on the leadership hierarchy as are my co-workers, so it's imparative that we all at least pretend to get along. However, JUST TODAY, one of my fellow sups went completely off the hook on Obama. Like, I'm talking about a 45-minute rant about how he's the WORST PRESIDENT EVER. I was like, "Hold up! Worst ever? Worst than Grover Cleveland, Taft, Grant, and even Andrew Jackson who openly defied SCOTUS and is personally responsible for the genocide of an entire ethnicity? Woodrow Wilson, the closet-Klansman who is on record to say that Birth of a Nation is the shiznit?" YES was the answer. REALLY??? Obama is the worst ever? Of course, it's because Obamacare and he has to pay more insurance so that "people who have never worked a day in their lives" can benefit. Q_Q.
He wanted to cite Obama's approval rating. I was like BRUH it's at 47% which is AVERAGE for all presidents historically, but he was beyond the point of reason, so I didn't say anything. I just smiled like a coon and nodded, patiently waiting for him to clock out and GTF0. Dude caught me again and wanted to tell me about how Jacky Robinson was the first in his sport and was actually good and Obama ain't no Jacky Robinson.
Remember, I have to work with this guy every day to lead our team.
I have had similar experiences among people who call themselves Christians, and I've prayed and dined with them, but it's like we don't even live on the same PLANET. I had to call out a guy at a BBQ who serve in Iraq because he singled out and blamed ONE DUDE who attended our church because he had previously served under Saddam, escaped the country, and renounced Islam and became a Christian. I was like man, you can't blame the sum total on an entire war on one person just because he "looks like those people." He was way out of line. Of course, my family were the only POCs at this BBQ, and we excused ourselves after that episode. I'm sure they talked about us afterward.
These folks hate Obama like the IDF hates Palestine yo.
Had another guy who sheltered me when I was self-exiled during my marital separation. He said he "didn't see race." I corrected him and said that he does not interact with people based upon their skin color, but if he didn't see race, then he's ignoring part of our identity. He nodded and smiled, but I don't think he got it. He's pushing 60.
So no, I cant say that I have experienced "better" or "quality" conversations about race among common folk offline. The majority of the people I interact with on the topic are FUBAR.
Its always messy and online its even harder to establish common ground because there's always someone there ready to jump down the person's throat either way.
SO I've kinda.... transitioned with how I argue certain things. Police abuse of power for example - too many people have their pre-made responses already dialed up and are simply not going to come off that position unless they're thrown off. Instead of going straight to "police shoot black men" I just work backwards until I get to the part where that person's real stance is. Is it "police shoot black men", "shoot black men", "police shoot", etc? Get to that, get away from the easily regurgitated responses that never required real thought to begin with and you'll get somewhere.
at least imo
By Forever Go To Post It's just not worth it.
no. it can be.
14 bcts/barbershops showed me that every once in a while someone will actually learn something. just gotta stay positive, and understand that ignorance is offensive but unless you give an effort you can't get anything in return.
By DY_nasty Go To Postno. it can be.
14 bcts/barbershops showed me that every once in a while someone will actually learn something. just gotta stay positive, and understand that ignorance is offensive but unless you give an effort you can't get anything in return.
I can see this. Especially after being around for a while, you come to know who the usual subjects are who just want to spark shit and who may actually be open to learning something. The mistreatment of minorities is globally, constantly documented so there's a solid base of facts to build from if you want to defend your position strongly.
I admit I'm just kind of tired after pretty much engaging non-stop since last August and am content to let more level heads carry the conversations.
By jWILL253 Go To Post Dy reverse engineering closet racist responses and shit.
lol its exactly what it sounds like
go into any online discussion regarding race and hit the loudest person in the 'debate' with what boils down to a completely neutral
"tell me more"
one time will make them expound on their ideal talking point. the second time they'll almost always feel comfortable enough to let out how they really feel - whether that's a misunderstanding (its actually possible, yes), deepseeded hate, emotional/psychological issues, or just clear proof that they're an idiot. yelling at em or going out of your way to make them feel stupid is just too much work anyways. its easy and anyone can do it too. working through their ignorance - if its just ignorance - isn't
I mean I don't like to categorise people into different races from a start, it's an outdated concept, both from a biological and psychological standpoint.Sadly it's still quite common around the world and surely helps to spread hatred among human beings.
Those who're speaking the loudest and show their sheer ignorance, should all have a genetic rundown to see that they're origins are in Africa whenever they like it or not.
These discussions are pretty hard to look at, there are just so many "opinions" where nothing else but a facepalm helps...
It's a topic where changing even one persons opinion or bring the person to actually think about their opinion, would be a great success.Sadly along the way you really have to endure so much shit usually, that it's hard to participate and keep a calm attitude.
Online discussions hardly ever lead to something, a discussion face to face would almost every time work out differently.Allthough even there, people tend to show their ignorance...
Also, acknowledging skin colors and cultures isn't racist in itself. It's part of what makes people who they are.
The problem starts when people use that as a basis for haterd.
By jWILL253 Go To PostAlso, acknowledging skin colors and cultures isn't racist in itself. It's part of what makes people who they are.
The problem starts when people use that as a basis for haterd.
The problem is, people tend to categorise people into different human races, which is just nonsense.We're all the same, no matter how some people will spin it.There are surely differences with the appearance, like skin color or a different heritage, but I fail to see how you can seriously spin that into hatred...it's just mindblowing on which level alot of people act.
I mean it's not really a new phenomenon, people have always used to spin theories to their liking.Nazis used Darwins theory and adjusted it to their agenda, despite being something totally different....
By DY_nasty Go To Post The thing is, ignorance is like... JUST ignorance. Its when people know they're being dicks. That's hard to deal with.
Yeah, I'm barely affected here in Germany with the latest police shootings for example, people here usually see it as what they are, cold blooded murder.
Racism as whole though, is always existent and you see ignorance,xenophobia and racism being part of many discussions surrounding news that affect both Germany and are news about issues that pop up worldwide.
By domino Go To Post i applaud anyone with the patience to fight that fight online. i'm not having that talk with anybody i can't look dead in the eye. i like to see folks realize how fucking stupid they are. playing dumb and dense is just too easy when you're just looking at a computer screen.
oh i'm thoroughly burned out now. but i gave it an honest shot (for honestly too long) and i did see some people change. Even if its not the person you're going back and forth with, other people are watching and reading and that's just as important.
Its just that you have to understand that you're going to eat an entire shit sandwich of ignorance, idiocy, and sometimes intentional assholery before you even get the ground needed to make the discussion one of any value. What really pissed me off more than the outright "fuck you, dy" racism shit was the people that SHOULD know their own shit not being able to pull their own arguments together. Fuck cheerleaders. Know your own shit. Its too easy to say "how can you not know about institutional racism? fuck you, racist!". How about you explain the shit. Oh word, waiting for Mumei, Dreams, Satch, Angelus, Bish, etc to come save your ass because you're in over your head? Fuck you too lol. #partoftheproblem
The back and forth just does my head in.
By Slayven Go To PostThey say children are our future.
Inherited prejudices are their future.
I'll never forget that Key and Peele sketch thread on GAF that got Script Kiddies banned because it perfectly summed up race debates.