NBA 2015 | Offseason | 🏀🎪

By Gabyskra Go To PostI'm surprised a lineup of Lopez Aldridge and Batum gets more rebounds than small ball combinations with Thomas Robinson or Meyers Leonard.

Come on mang.

FYI, JJ Hickson averaged 11RPG while in Portland, prompting Konex to proclaim that he'd rather have Hickson than Dwight Howard.

Problem with Hickson was that he'd go in and steal his teammates rebounds and the type of rebounds he produced were not conducive to an effective scheme.

I actually like T-Rob, his story is something. As I was asked, I looked at the lineups that were used, and I see it's a bunch of Kaman, T-Rob in small ball, and Leonard sucking. So yeah, I'm not surprised the stats with Lopez were better, because he's on the floor with the strongest players in the team.

Having a strong 7 footer with a clearly defined role helps, news at 11. Is that what you think we're discussing? I just react to all the summer hype. We've talked about him so much already. Knicks fans forgot what deserves excitement. Last summer with all the Phil talk was already so annoying.

Sorry, meant JJ Hickson, not Thomas Robinson. That's who Robin Lopez replaced.

Hickson with Portland: 12.7PPG, 56FG%, 10.4RPG. Team record? 33-49
Lopez replacing Hickson: 11.1PPG, 55FG%, 8.5RPG. Team record? 54-28

Hickson was so bad defending on the ball, it was fascinating. You don't need to convince me Lopez is better than Hickson.

But you would definitely need to convince me Lopez brought 20 wins. :D God. Where to begin.

Rolo is good at positioning himself based on what he needs to do. He wasn't really encouraged to score. He was encouraged to make shit happen for Aldridge. That meant dealing with his double teams and boxxing assholes out.

Right, but that's the point, isn't it? Hickson had better stats than RoLo. Team was far worse with him than RoLo.

What are we talking about, reilo? Lopez is a serviceable center, but mentioning how 84th rated throughout the whole league is too low is pushing it. Like, we could make our top 20 centers in the league and see where he ends up.

Alpha didn't call him a Top 5 center, he just felt 84th was too low. Is that so controversial?

Hell, I don't even agree with Alpha because I explained to him that he was out 2-months with a broken hand and fizzled out at the end of the season, but he's not out here proclaiming he's Top 5.

I went through the list, for fun. I would absolutely take all the following players before Robin Lopez. He's like number 20. I'm not paying that kind of money for the 20th best at his position. And I'm not including the rooks! Maybe make a case for a few of them being less good, but that's it. So, no, 84 is generous enough.

Marc Gasol
Dwight Howard
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
Rudy Gobert
DeAndre Jordan
Hassan Whiteside
Nikola Vucevic
Al Horford
Andre Drummond
Andrew Bogut
Tyson Chandler
Al Jefferson
Marcin Gortat
Nikola Pekovic
Timofey Mozgov
Jonas Valanciunas
Brook Lopez
Greg Monroe
Tim Duncan next season since he'll play 5

At the very best, he's a slightly below average starting center. Is that worth 12.5M and a long time committment? No.

I hope Pekovic is healthy enough to be on that list this season.

Some of those dudes are way more injury prone and won't fit at all with Melo. Sheer numbers is not how you put together a team.

By rodeoclown Go To PostI hope Pekovic is healthy enough to be traded.

fixt

By DY_nasty Go To Postfixt

I wouldn't move him this year. Towns isn't going to come in make a huge impact immediately.

Also, they should move Dieng and not Pekovic. Let's not be the team that pays Dieng.

What going to happen first, Pekovic playing a full season or HxH coming back

By Kuma Go To PostWhat going to happen first, Pekovic playing a full season or HxH coming back

I don't know what the second part means, but Pekovic even operating fully, won't play 82 games. The Wolves are going to be limiting his minutes and resting him.

By db Go To PostSome of those dudes are way more injury prone and won't fit at all with Melo. Sheer numbers is not how you put together a team.

Well, if you're thinking ceteris paribus, you don't take into account how compatible they are with just one specific roster, but what they could bring with flexibility. There is a place for assessing the worth of a player independently of its compatibility with one situation.

What's the best case you can make anyway? That considering the Knicks roster, he might be, what, the 15th best fit? Then that's just not where you throw 20% of your cap space.

Understand what it means to be 15th or lower at your position. It pretty much means it's a lost match-up more than half the time.

How desirable do you think the Knicks are to players unless they really want to be in NY?

By db Go To PostHow desirable do you think the Knicks are to players unless they really want to be in NY?

They really are not. And it will stay that way if they mismanage their resources. I don't remember a team overpaying their way to attractiveness.

By Gabyskra Go To PostThey really are not. And it will stay that way if they mismanage their resources. I don't remember a team overpaying their way to attractiveness.

Dallas, sorta

By DY_nasty Go To PostDallas, sorta

The Finley era? They eventually said fuck you to Nash :D

By Gabyskra Go To PostThe Finley era? They eventually said fuck you to Nash :D

It all worked out in the end.

Dallas is kind of a special case though no matter how you look at it. And with the Knicks... well, they gotta start somewhere. (They shouldve started by letting Melo walk but whatever)

By DY_nasty Go To PostIt all worked out in the end.

Dallas is kind of a special case though no matter how you look at it. And with the Knicks… well, they gotta start somewhere. (They shouldve started by letting Melo walk but whatever)

Come on, it worked out the moment they dealt Tractor Traylor. Then what did they do that was extravagant? Sign Rodman for a minute? They got Juwan Howard, but not as a FA, in a deal for washed-up Laettner... Griffin, Najera, they weren't too expensive... Cuban's reputation was one thing (like how he took care of players, improved assets, facilities), but that's different from them overpaying players.

Whatever I'm still envious of Knicks Fans that aren't in PST since chances are I'll be working when their games are on.

Preemptive: shut your-in-hawaii-ass up Dy.

By Gabyskra Go To PostCome on, it worked out the moment they dealt Tractor Traylor. Then what did they do that was extravagant? Sign Rodman for a minute? They got Juwan Howard, but not as a FA, in a deal for washed-up Laettner… Griffin, Najera, they weren't too expensive… Cuban's reputation was one thing (like how he took care of players, improved assets, facilities), but that's different from them overpaying players.

Hence the "sorta" and "special case"

special considerations kinda turn into overpaying imo, money is just one way you go out of your way for guys. promising minutes, touches, media exposure, etc all come into play

By AlphaSnacks Go To PostYou're the last person to talk and agree with someone about bandwagoning…

Lol ikr

Noah ain't better than Rolo at last season mang, he closing to Perkins tier at end of season

Crazy how much damage Thibs did to Noah.

By fertygo Go To PostNoah ain't better than Rolo at last season mang, he closing to Perkins tier at end of season

Yeah he couldn't score. But Noah is one season away from being the best defender in the league. Post all star game, he still averaged over 9 rebounds and 6 assists. That kind of vision is kinda unprecedented, except for Sabonis and Divac. Don't compare him to Perkins or Lopez. Lopez was your run-of-the-mill 9 and 6 boards guy. You know what a deal would look like and who would die to make it happen.

http://www.si.com/

34

KYLE LOWRY
Raptors | Guard | Last year: 30

41

JEFF TEAGUE
Hawks | Guard | Last year: 92


told ya'll.

Lowry...

man, I got SO much respect for dude. He came into the league with none of the skills or strengths necessary to even be a quality backup. He came a long ways with nothing but hardwork.

At the same time, he's feeling himself in Toronto and fukkin up right now lol

By DY_nasty Go To PostLowry…

man, I got SO much respect for dude. He came into the league with none of the skills or strengths necessary to even be a quality backup. He came a long ways with nothing but hardwork.

At the same time, he's feeling himself in Toronto and fukkin up right now lol

Wall dominated him so hard in the playoffs. It looked like Stockton versus Charlie Ward.

By Gabyskra Go To PostI went through the list, for fun. I would absolutely take all the following players before Robin Lopez. He's like number 20. I'm not paying that kind of money for the 20th best at his position. And I'm not including the rooks! Maybe make a case for a few of them being less good, but that's it. So, no, 84 is generous enough.

At the very best, he's a slightly below average starting center. Is that worth 12.5M and a long time committment? No.

I feel like your having two different debates in this statement. Is Rolo around the 20th best center in the league?

Sure though I would have him around 15 due to some of those players injury, age, and the fact RoLo can score and defend enough to not be a liability on either side.

So then your next question is "is he still worth 12.5 mil as a mid range center"? Absolutely.

The cap went up. Players like Tyson Chandler who are not better than RoLo because Tyson can't score at all outside an Alley oops and is older than RoLo and got more than him for the same number of years. That just highlights the fact that a lot of the guys you pointed out who are better than RoLo are going to get paid a lot more than him because they're better and that difference in payscale won't be reflected in a difference in skill level for the majority of those names.

By Gabyskra Go To PostWall dominated him so hard in the playoffs. It looked like Stockton versus Charlie Ward.

Raptors were a bottom 5 team defensively by the time the playoffs started. I think ATL's entire side of the playoff bracket was playing wildly past their capabilities tbh. Nets balled just to not give up a lottery pick, ATL was struggle personified, Wiz offense could've fit in a TicTacToe board, Raptors were washed in every aspect.

There were three coaches that should've been fired in that bracket alone. Hell, I actually feel bad for Beal because a real coach would've got him into the all-star game by now.

I think Rolo is going to eat in the East personally. /shrug

By db Go To PostI think Rolo is going to eat in the East personally. /shrug

Might fuck around and average 9 & 9.



Legit think we could have beaten the Hawks.

By Gabyskra Go To PostI went through the list, for fun. I would absolutely take all the following players before Robin Lopez. He's like number 20. I'm not paying that kind of money for the 20th best at his position. And I'm not including the rooks! Maybe make a case for a few of them being less good, but that's it. So, no, 84 is generous enough.

Marc Gasol
Dwight Howard
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
Rudy Gobert
DeAndre Jordan
Hassan Whiteside
Nikola Vucevic
Al Horford
Andre Drummond
Andrew Bogut
Tyson Chandler
Al Jefferson
Marcin Gortat
Nikola Pekovic
Timofey Mozgov
Jonas Valanciunas
Brook Lopez
Greg Monroe
Tim Duncan next season since he'll play 5

At the very best, he's a slightly below average starting center. Is that worth 12.5M and a long time committment? No.

A 7 foot rim protecting center who doesn't demand touches is definitely worth 12.5m with the salary cap explosion.

By reilo Go To PostAlpha didn't call him a Top 5 center, he just felt 84th was too low. Is that so controversial?

Hell, I don't even agree with Alpha because I explained to him that he was out 2-months with a broken hand and fizzled out at the end of the season, but he's not out here proclaiming he's Top 5.

LOL for real.

But yeah, once you mentioned that he finished the season a little poorly, I was pretty quick to drop my confusion why he's at 84. I still say he's better than pixie-legs, swat-boy Chandler, though.

I think Lopez can be inserted into just about any frontcourt in the league and be a net positive. For 12.5 under the new cap... that's not BAD.

Just don't like him being THE quality big on the roster. That's kinda scary.

By DY_nasty Go To PostI think Lopez can be inserted into just about any frontcourt in the league and be a net positive. For 12.5 under the new cap… that's not BAD.

Just don't like him being THE quality big on the roster. That's kinda scary.

By butt Go To PostA 7 foot rim protecting center who doesn't demand touches is definitely worth 12.5m with the salary cap explosion.

I would rather have a 7fter who can demand touches than one that can't

By blackace Go To PostI would rather have a 7fter who can demand touches than one that can't

How many of those are out there though? Let alone available.

Big man market ain't what it used to be.

By DY_nasty Go To PostHow many of those are out there though? Let alone available.

Big man market ain't what it used to be.

there aren't many but being one who can't demand touches isn't a merit

By blackace Go To Postthere aren't many but being one who can't demand touches isn't a merit

its not like anyone is gonna be demanding touches with melo around anyways...

a guy who can get his numbers without having plays run for him is always good though

By DY_nasty Go To Postits not like anyone is gonna be demanding touches with melo around anyways…

a guy who can get his numbers without having plays run for him is always good though

Melo a gunner but he has coexisted with other scorers before the Knicks don't have nearly enough talent to be worried about touches

The bigs who were actually available outside of LMA and Monroe don't command double teams or score in isolation. Chandler and Jordan aren't really better isolation offensive players than RoLo. Monroe plays no defense.


RoLo isn't a top 10 Center probably, but considering the insane jumps in cap space and the people honestly available this summer - that contract isn't bad. The Lakers would have gladly maxed out RoLo if he would have taken their offer.

Knicks may just be a few solid pieces away from a middle level playoff spot, especially if O Quin and Afflalo flourish in the triangle like skilled role players tend to do.

That gives Phil another summer to acquire talent. Plus, as far as overpaying FA's go, we're focusing on the wrong GM here.

A team out there paid Rajon Rondo 10 million U.S. Dollars and Wes Matthews a max despite an Achilles tear...When Afflalo was available for peanuts by comparison.

Phil deserves some legitimate criticism - but overpaying FA's this summer isn't one of them considering the deals he landed.

RoLo is a solid player and maybe worth the money in the market but just think saying he doesn't demand touches because he can't is a merit on the Knicks... if he was going to a team with 2 or 3 legit scoring options like where he came from I could see how that statement makes more sense

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13556848/atlanta-hawks-retire-dikembe-mutombo-no-55-nov-24

just seems like a "see we like Africans" move

By reilo Go To PostProblem with Hickson was that he'd go in and steal his teammates rebounds and the type of rebounds he produced were not conducive to an effective scheme.

His type of play isn't conducive to anything except losing and playing horrible defense. I was so grateful for Portland claiming him off waivers so the Warriors didn't.

Jackson will have next summer to get FA talent? No he won't. They're close to maxed out for summer 2016 (8M at best if they don't keep Seraphin, Galloway, Amundson), they have no first round pick, so all they'll have is 2017 expirers which have lost their appeal. The Knicks spent 45% of their cap space on a handful of players that would get wrecked by the Spurs' bench. What's the ceiling for that team? Back in the Amare days, people would clown them for being a second round team with no room for improvement. Now, they're a contender for the first round at best, and it will stay that way. What's the big plan? A lifetime of battling the Bucks for mediocrity? It's not like these players are investments, they won't become high-value trading-chips in a couple seasons. Jackson will retire again, and the jokes will be the same. Like Lopez or not because you have a thing for mediocre role-players with charisma, he's the poster-boy for that strategy.

There's a reason why non-Knicks fans are not too critical of these signings, it's because the Knicks are not even relevant after them and it's a comfortable situation for their own team. If the Knicks were relevant, the criticism would be much harsher. Don't be fooled. I write from a point of view where I cheer for my team to contend. Do you?

By Gabyskra Go To PostJackson will have next summer to get FA talent? No he won't. They're close to maxed out for summer 2016 (8M at best if they don't keep Seraphin, Galloway, Amundson), they have no first round pick, so all they'll have is 2017 expirers which have lost their appeal. The Knicks spent 45% of their cap space on a handful of players that would get wrecked by the Spurs' bench. What's the ceiling for that team? Back in the Amare days, people would clown them for being a second round team with no room for improvement. Now, they're a contender for the first round at best, and it will stay that way. What's the big plan? A lifetime of battling the Bucks for mediocrity? It's not like these players are investments, they won't become high-value trading-chips in a couple seasons. Jackson will retire again, and the jokes will be the same. Like Lopez or not because you have a thing for mediocre role-players with charisma, he's the poster-boy for that strategy.

There's a reason why non-Knicks fans are not too critical of these signings, it's because the Knicks are not even relevant after them and it's a comfortable situation for their own team. If the Knicks were relevant, the criticism would be much harsher. Don't be fooled.

I really do agree. Like... Lopez is good and complementary to just about any frontcourt but he can't be THE big on the roster. He ain't built for that. And going forward the Knicks are going to run into a set of new problems to stack with their old ones.