The Thunder were two games away from a Finals berth 2 seasons ago. Don't think the JSmoove/Joe Johnson teams made it past the 2nd round.
By giririsss Go To PostThey're treadmilling, but they're actually a contender. Not a treadmill team.It shouldn't matter if an organization is self-aware regarding its treadmilling.
Mavs aren't contenders. Nor are they frauds. They ARE a treadmill team. Just enough talent to stay good, and a FO that is determined to keep them "just good enough", but the parts they're putting together aren't really contending. They're just fucking around and wasting time.
By DY_nasty Go To PostIt shouldn't matter if an organization is self-aware regarding its treadmilling.It doesn't.
Who said they Mavs are selfaware?
By RBK Go To PostThe Thunder were two games away from a Finals berth 2 seasons ago. Don't think the JSmoove/Joe Johnson teams made it past the 2nd round.You missed the point. The Thunder have enough talent to simply be a great team no matter what. They haven't made a significant improvement in years. They aren't going anywhere. They became a Finals team on talent alone and they haven't even worked to making that talent synergize. Some teams get stuck in the 1st round with their talent. OKC made it to the finals once, hence the 'GOAT treadmill' moniker. Their pieces are that good but they haven't done shit with them other than spite themselves and step backwards when given the opportunity.
By giririsss Go To PostIt doesn't.Mavs built for the playoffs and made the playoffs. OKC tells themselves they're building for a championship run and trade for fucking Dion Waiters AND give him the ball.
Who said they Mavs are selfaware?
I mean you really can't get any higher than a Conference Finals berth...literally.
At the most, they never got over the hump. Treadmill team just doesn't describe the kind of success the Thunder have had, before and after the Harden trade.
I'll have to ask again, but I'm guessing the Pacers were a treadmill team the last 3-4 seasons too right?
At the most, they never got over the hump. Treadmill team just doesn't describe the kind of success the Thunder have had, before and after the Harden trade.
I'll have to ask again, but I'm guessing the Pacers were a treadmill team the last 3-4 seasons too right?
By DY_nasty Go To PostMavs built for the playoffs and made the playoffs. OKC tells themselves they're building for a championship run and trade for fucking Dion Waiters AND give him the ball.
The only "treadmill" type move they made was giving up harden for cap space. Which was stupid, but almost justifiable. Even if the logic is flawed.
You can argue that keeping perk was bad. Brooks should have been shown the door. The Jeremy lamb, Kevin martin experiments were misplaced. Caron Buttler / Fisher weren't who they needed. They have made efforts, even if none of them have really paid off. And several weren't "high-risk high-reward, chips all in" moves.
But that would really have been stupid, to go all in on a high-risk move, when they're contending anyway,and just need a small push. Not a huge one.
I think you nailed the difference, the mavs are built to "make the playoffs" not to "contend". OKC are contending, regardless of what other moves they make.
By RBK Go To PostI mean you really can't get any higher than a Conference Finals berth…literally.Did they not improve each year in some way during that time? If they had a healthy PG going into this season they'd probably be seen as the favorites in the conference finals vs Atlanta.
At the most, they never got over the hump. Treadmill team just doesn't describe the kind of success the Thunder have had, before and after the Harden trade.
I'll have to ask again, but I'm guessing the Pacers were a treadmill team the last 3-4 seasons too right?
OKC hasn't made one significant improvement in years outside of guys just getting better - and even then, their coach makes sure that their strengths don't even align with the strengths of the other core players.
Regular season performance doesn't really matter if they end up with the same result in 3 straight postseasons.
By RBK Go To PostRegular season performance doesn't really matter if they end up with the same result in 3 straight postseasons.but they got better, did they not?
By RBK Go To PostYeah, but the Thunder had better seasons in the 2 seasons following trading Harden.and they never made it back to the finals
which was like... a part of your argument just a post above
I really can't believe you tried to use my own argument against me.
It's to illustrate why your own argument is flawed. How can you really improve when you lost to the Heat 3 straight postseasons?
It's to illustrate why your own argument is flawed. How can you really improve when you lost to the Heat 3 straight postseasons?
By RBK Go To PostI really can't believe you tried to use my own argument against me.Heat were champs twice and had historic seasons on top of that. Losing to Miami in a competitive series isn't that big of a negative - and trying to use that as a way to say that the Pacers didn't improve is just weird. Meanwhile, OKC got ran off the court last time they were in the finals and haven't reached that same point again in years. On top of this, they've made a bunch of lateral moves or outright bad ones.
It's to illustrate why your own argument is flawed. How can you really improve when you lost to the Heat 3 straight postseasons?
I said the Pacers got better each year and its REALLY hard to argue that they didn't. I'd love to hear the argument though. OKC hasn't got significantly better since trading Harden.
maybe you were trying to make a different point?
We were on the treadmill for 4 years. This year we pulled off a 60 win season.
It's not the end of the world as long as you're smart about what players you're getting.
It's not the end of the world as long as you're smart about what players you're getting.
Losing to the Spurs in the 2014 WCFs shouldn't mean much to the Thunder either.
Personally, they never had a chance to beat Miami to begin with, but again. using your stance, they should have blown it up because it eventually didn't lead to a Finals berth for the Pacers. They essentially "treadmilled" for 3 seasons with no true improvement(again, disregarding regular season) because they didn't beat the Heat.
OKC was underwhelming 1st season after Harden and were again 2 games out of the Finals last season. For a contending team, you live with those results because it will be illogical to blow it up.
Plus it hard to really improve after losing Harden/Kevin Martin, even if they were self-inflicted.
Personally, they never had a chance to beat Miami to begin with, but again. using your stance, they should have blown it up because it eventually didn't lead to a Finals berth for the Pacers. They essentially "treadmilled" for 3 seasons with no true improvement(again, disregarding regular season) because they didn't beat the Heat.
OKC was underwhelming 1st season after Harden and were again 2 games out of the Finals last season. For a contending team, you live with those results because it will be illogical to blow it up.
Plus it hard to really improve after losing Harden/Kevin Martin, even if they were self-inflicted.
By RBK Go To PostLosing to the Spurs in the 2014 WCFs shouldn't mean much to the Thunder either.but the pacers got better those 3 seasons... unless you're saying they didn't. i think they got better each year.
Personally, they never had a chance to beat Miami to begin with, but again. using your stance, they should have blown it up because it eventually didn't lead to a Finals berth for the Pacers. They essentially "treadmilled" for 3 seasons with no true improvement(again, disregarding regular season) because they didn't beat the Heat.
OKC was underwhelming 1st season after Harden and were again 2 games out of the Finals last season. For a contending team, you live with those results because it will be illogical to blow it up.
Plus it hard to really improve after losing Harden/Kevin Martin, even if they were self-inflicted.
okc?
By RBK Go To PostThey build through the draft.
They haven't signed a marquee free agent since TMac.
And an OLD TMac at that. One who didn't even play except during garbage time.
This is the only thing that annoys me about this team. There's nothing wrong with building through the draft, but I wonder how many 'ships we coulda won if we were more aggressive on the market.
treadmill to me has meant you're winning 45-50 games year over year but the team's capped out and can no longer add significant pieces.
By Red Blaster Go To Posttreadmill to me has meant you're winning 45-50 games year over year but the team's capped out and can no longer add significant pieces.
Man, you got folks in here calling the Mavs a treadmill team after they won a 'ship in 11 and were the only team that made the Spurs flinch last year.
Treadmill teams: Clippers, Rockets, Bulls, (LeBron's) Cavs, Pacers, Hawks, Blazers (they're only here because of what they did to HOU last year), Grizz, Thunder (post-Harden)
Golden State is TBD.
Heat fell off with LeBron's departure. Same with Celtics after "big three" departure.
LoLakers.
Sadly Zero Tolerance has no idea what a treadmill team is either. Dude listed like 8 playoff teams.
Yes, I'm only posting because you listed the Rockets, but there's no way you can call this current makeup a treadmill team considering how long we've been together. The 3 seasons prior to Harden are by pure definition a treadmill team. Even the TMac/Yao era Rockets were viewed as contenders even if they had underwhelming postseason performances.
Mavs are a treadmill team, don't care if they took the Spurs to 7 because they still ended up going home. They weren't the favorites at all either.
Yes, I'm only posting because you listed the Rockets, but there's no way you can call this current makeup a treadmill team considering how long we've been together. The 3 seasons prior to Harden are by pure definition a treadmill team. Even the TMac/Yao era Rockets were viewed as contenders even if they had underwhelming postseason performances.
Mavs are a treadmill team, don't care if they took the Spurs to 7 because they still ended up going home. They weren't the favorites at all either.
By Zero Tolerance Go To PostMan, you got folks in here calling the Mavs a treadmill team after they won a 'ship in 11 and were the only team that made the Spurs flinch last year.Clippers could be. They're on the bubble.
Treadmill teams: Clippers, Rockets, Bulls, (LeBron's) Cavs, Pacers, Hawks, Blazers (they're only here because of what they did to HOU last year), Grizz, Thunder (post-Harden)
Golden State is TBD.
Heat fell off with LeBron's departure. Same with Celtics after "big three" departure.
LoLakers.
Rockets; depends how their contracts play out, but certainly potential too there. Though i think they've technically kept winning more games every year since harden. So not yet. Give it 2 more years of first round exits thouhg....
Bulls yeah.
LBJ's cavs? Eh, not really.
Pacers? nope.
Hawks? this years? the ones that won the east? uh..........
Blazers... there's an argument for them to be. And for a long time.
Grizz... not really.
Again, i think people confuse treadmill team and treadmilling a lot.
Yeah... I can't agree with anything that calls Houston a treadmill team. Are they contenders? Probably not yet but they've got plenty of tools to make that happen and have shown the ability to get roster moves right more times than not.
OKC was underwhelming 1st season after Harden and were again 2 games out of the Finals last season. For a contending team, you live with those results because it will be illogical to blow it up.We were only "underwhelming" the first season after Harden because of Patrick Beverley injuring Russ.
The 2012-13 Thunder had a historically good SRS and had a great chance to get back to the Finals. Last year's team was derailed by the Ibaka injury (and won close to 60 games without Russ for a large part of the season). This past season has been made moot by the shit injury luck and tumultuous roster situation.
If we're healthy next season we'll be contending again. Nobody doubts that.
I just don't buy the "treadmill" argument with this OKC team. We've had bad luck, period. We might already have a ring if it wasn't for injuries.
Ya'll just using different definitions and going around in circles.
What's worse, Finals, Second Round, CF or going from second round to 2 CF?
Because that's the only difference between OKC 2012-2014 and Indiana 2012-2014.
What's worse, Finals, Second Round, CF or going from second round to 2 CF?
Because that's the only difference between OKC 2012-2014 and Indiana 2012-2014.
By Red Blaster Go To Posttreadmill to me has meant you're winning 45-50 games year over year but the team's capped out and can no longer add significant pieces.
Basically. They peaked and the peak wasn't high enough. The Hawks were a treadmill team before trading everyone away. The Nuggets were a treadmill team just a couple of years ago.
Though I think I would include post-championship teams that end up in a treadmill. The Mavs cap situation isn't so bad that I would include them, but I wonder if Miami will keep godfathering their stars and end up capped out at 45 wins.
Personally, I think tanking for the slightly better chance at a lottery pick that may but probably won't amount to shit in the long run is absolute bullshit. On multiple levels.
I would rather be a first round exit .500 squad for the next 10 years than go through this shit again.
Phoenix Suns forwards Marcus and Markieff Morris have been charged with felony aggravated assault following an incident on January 24 at a Phoenix recreation center.http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12735869/marcus-morris-markieff-morris-phoenix-suns-charged-felony-assault
As I said in the other thread: this has been a banner year for the Suns.
Sign Isaiah Thomas even though you already have 2 PGs, pissing off your best PG in the process.
Give up a possible top-5 pick for RFA Brandon Knight. Give up Dragic for future assets. Trade Isaiah Thomas to Boston.
And now this. Fucking yikes.
Sign Isaiah Thomas even though you already have 2 PGs, pissing off your best PG in the process.
Give up a possible top-5 pick for RFA Brandon Knight. Give up Dragic for future assets. Trade Isaiah Thomas to Boston.
And now this. Fucking yikes.
Phil Jackson with a lengthy press conference today.
Talking about doing the right basketball thing by accommodating players in trades and sending them to destinations they actually wanted to be in. Specifically named Pablo, Amare, JR. and Shump.
Dude is the anti-Morey.
Talking about doing the right basketball thing by accommodating players in trades and sending them to destinations they actually wanted to be in. Specifically named Pablo, Amare, JR. and Shump.
Dude is the anti-Morey.
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostWe were on the treadmill for 4 years. This year we pulled off a 60 win season.
It's not the end of the world as long as you're smart about what players you're getting.
Atlanta was the posterboy for treadmills. I really hope they at least make it to the conference finals. So many people and FOs pretend like you either have to be a contender or tank.
Wouldn't ATL making it to the ECF pretty much signify they're a contending team?
Most teams that aren't doing either are pretty much treadmill teams.
Most teams that aren't doing either are pretty much treadmill teams.
By RBK Go To PostWouldn't ATL making it to the ECF pretty much signify they're a contending team?They're contending NOW. The last two years have been a big change up for that entire organization.
Most teams that aren't doing either are pretty much treadmill teams.
By RBK Go To PostWouldn't ATL making it to the ECF pretty much signify they're a contending team?
Most teams that aren't doing either are pretty much treadmill teams.
as DY said, they're a contender now. They seemingly made the playoffs every year and did nothing. Never improved or got worse. They didn't tank and hope they would magically draft the next Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka/Harden like every other team/fanbase hopes for.
played my first ever game of bball today, will never make fun of DJ again. i bricked everything after a while.
By RBK Go To PostIs this real life?
How are you even a Clippers fan?
what do you mean?
By Vahagn Go To PostPhil Jackson with a lengthy press conference today.
Talking about doing the right basketball thing by accommodating players in trades and sending them to destinations they actually wanted to be in. Specifically named Pablo, Amare, JR. and Shump.
Dude is the anti-Morey.
Yeah, he fields the worst team in the league. Totally unlike Morey.
By RBK Go To PostWhere does your interest of basketball come from if you never played the sport?I know a few dudes that got into NBA/basketball because of 2K.
By RBK Go To PostWhere does your interest of basketball come from if you never played the sport?watching it.
i had a basket as a child but nobody plays the game here. finding more than 2 people that want to play is basically impossible. today all the stars aligned for it to happen.