CarSnacks: BMW M3 (E92) vs. Audi RS5 (B8) Review
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Rear-Wheel Highjinks or All-Wheel Tenacity? The Boisterous Cockhead or Concrete Salesman?
The following was a review I wrote a few years back. In the middle of writing the review, it turned into something I didn't expect...a comparison review between two rivals. At the time I had eagerly been anticipating the Audi RS5, and while it was a monumental car back then, in retrospect the industry has moved on and it moved on quick. And so have I. So see below what I had to say after wringing about in the RS5.
August 2012:
Audi has been parading around the RS5 for what seems like an eternity now. As a big, and very critical fan of Audis, having owned a 2005 A6 4.2 and then later a 2012 A6 3.0T, it's agonizing for me to anticipate the next great S or RS Audi model. Just imagine how excruciating it was on me to have to endure this awful wait to drive this car, while the Europeans dilly-dallied in their's. It was agonizing simply waiting for the reveal, and moreso waiting for the American launch (that coincided with the 2013 facelift), seeing how Europeans have been enjoying their RS5s since 2011, albeit pre-facelift.
The agony had finally subsided when earlier in the late summer of 2012, I got my chance to get a hold of the RS5's keys and take it out for a drive. Hunkering down into that familiar cabin made me a realize a number of things: for starters, the interior materials are upgraded for the RS5 over your typical A5. Of course the seats are different, as well, as you'd expect them to be. The thumb-press gear lever is now gone, replaced with a trigger-esque one, much like what the Audi TT-S and TT-RS have. And much like the steroidal TTs (that's plural, not the model), the RS5 also dons a new flat-bottomed steering wheel that's textured for increased grip.
All of that hits you within four seconds of stepping foot into the car and you don't really pay much attention to it at first, because you're overcome with giddiness and your sole intent is to fire the car up. And sweet googly-moogly does it sound like fire. Flander-ish excitement out of the way, this thing starts up with a snarl, letting you know you've just awakened a 4.2L European V8 tuned to the glory of 450HP. Soon enough, the car begins to idle really quietly, saving the rest of its vocal chords for your drive…and so that you also don't piss off the neighbors late at night (or early in the morning). Engage the dual clutch transmission by putting it in drive and give it some throttle and it just bellows like a baritone until you've let off and come to a complete stop. Stomp on it hard and what you'll get is an absolutely visceral noise, one that I haven't heard since I drove a 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage. It's sheer hooliganism.
Despite its lack of torque on paper, that power comes in quite early in the range allowing the RS5 to pull like a freight train without ever feeling wheezy or laggy. Some have complained about the low-end being a bit weak, but even on a hot New York day I didn't really find myself bothered by it. The 317 lbs ft. of torque felt adequate for the RS5. It wasn't blistering, but it didn't bother me quite as much as the M3's lack of low-end chest shove. More importantly, with nearly 8300RPM to give, it's the top end that is absolutely sensational, without the slightest bit of break in power. The RS5 is a naturally aspirated, muscle car - honest to goodness refinement, toned to deliver a sledgehammer hit. Nevermind that this car may be a tick slower around a track than the M3, because it triumphs in nearly every other category - from looks, to the interior, to the sensational noise it makes, to the grippy feel of the steering wheel, the adjustable comfort and firmness of the suspension, not to mention that dual clutch transmission, the Bang and Olufsen system, that beautiful rear-deck spoiler rising up with speed, and so forth. Yes, I'm aware the M3 boasts a dual clutch as well, but it does feel a bit clunky at lower speeds (occasionally reminding me of the SMG systems), where as as the Audi's DCT unit is considerably newer and more refined.
To its rightfully due credit, the M3 is without question the better track-star and better performer, there's just no denying it. But it's not quite as well rounded as the RS5, as the Audi exhibits better road manners in addition to giving you very similar thrills. The rear-biased Quattro will allow the RS5 to get just a bit sideways here and there, but nothing like what the M3 can achieve. There's also no denying that the absolute purist will prefer the BMW M3 everyday, especially since it can be had with a manual transmission and it's rear-wheel drive unlike the Audi. But if speed, comfort, gorgeous looks, a howling noise, and year-round use is what you need, it's the Quattro driven RS5 that is the bell ringer here.
Still, it must be note that the Audi's balance, while solid, lacks a few key touches that enthusiasts will covet. One such being the steering is electric. Granted, the steering feels positive and firm, but it inherently lacks feedback and can feel numb on the road, especially compared to the M3. The other thing, there's a bit more body roll with the Audi, than the BMW. Most people won't notice it, but under some sudden maneuvers it's there, which would probably limit the RS5's potential on a track just a tad more. I have no doubt that the Quattro's torque vectoring manages power just fine, but a slightly enhanced sport mode that biases a bit more power rear-ward to induce some controlled oversteer (see: Nissan GT-R) would help this particular German feel easier to throw around and guide on a track. That's just a hunch, as unfortunately, we were not able to track this car during our road test.
Really, the M3 and RS5 are two different cars. They're in the same price bracket, but they aren't quite meant to compete against each other. People who are looking for that best-of-both-worlds car may naturally gravitate towards the Audi RS5, as ultimately it is more capable than the BMW. I've driven numerous E92 M3s over the past few years, but no matter how much I loved the M3, I was always put off by a number of traits. The M3's low-end torque never impressed me, and compared to the RS5 it's down nearly 20lbs of it at nearly the same peak levels - so the RS5 is noticeably more enjoyable to drive low-end than the M3. Additionally, the RS5 actually sounds like it has 450 horsepower…the M3 doesn't. Now, we know the simple fix for that quirk is an exhaust on the BMW. But the cost of an exhaust for an M3 is the equivalent cost of a colonoscopy…a pain that will resonate in your wallet and asshole. So it would have been nice to get a bit more tone out of BMW's S65 motor from the factory, as opposed to having to spend over $1500. Also, BMW's interior and build quality pales compared to Audi's offerings. Where as the RS5, and even the S5, are complete with quiet, well made, high quality materials…the BMW M3, much like its lower-range sibling the 335i, have a propensity to develop some obscure and irritating rattles throughout their cabins. Of course, this is highly dependent on the road conditions of your city and state.
Likewise, the MMI unit found in the Audi is easier to use than that of the BMW, though infotainment quirks such as those are of minor concern to me since I personally tend to figure them out extremely quickly. The key aspect with both the RS5 and the BMW M3 is that they are one of the very, very few cars out there that offer enthusiasts naturally aspirated V8s that rev past 8000RPM with absolutely pristine refinement between the two. So at the end of the day, no matter which car you've chosen, you've chosen well. Not correctly, as every situation differs, but certainly well.
Again, I have to reiterate that it seems downright wrong to compare these two cars as they have fairly different purposes behind those similarly set price brackets. So don't take my critiques of the M3 the wrong way, because it is a sensational car, but it's ultimately not as well rounded as the RS5 is when you factor in everyday use, from the interior, to power output, down to the elements outside. And for me, those are the voids that the RS5 fills over the M3. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go for the RS5 - it manages to hit just a few more notes for me than the M3 does.
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Now I stand by what I wrote three years ago. Most of it. Having owned a BMW 335i Coupe and spending even more time with a 2011 M3, there are some things I can amend in my critiques. The interior quality seems to variate between cars: some rattle, some don't. Also later M3s received a highly revised MMI that added core buttons around the MMI knob that made accessing the system much quicker and more comfortable. Complete reliance on the MMI knob was dialed (pun!) way back in the facelifted cars. Additionally, for 2011 the DCT in the M3 was refined a bit. The LCI (life cycle impulse) updates made to the M3's exterior, particularly the taillights, really added some extra appeal to the car, as the original units had a very pale and flat aesthetic. Still, over time I actually began to prefer the interior aesthetics of the M3 over the RS5. The Audi's problem eventually stuck out like a sore thumb when you realize its interior dates back to 2004 when the sixth-generation Audi A6 debuted as a 2005 model. They're virtually identical interiors. That and the fact that the BMW's iDrive screen started to look much sharper, is larger, and also carried more detail.
As a car that withstands the test of time, the BMW M3 (especially the LCI models) has aged considerably better, where as unfortunately some of the Audi's luster wore off. Still, if the seasonal elements around you prevent you from owning a RWD car year round, and you want a mega-revving V8 you're best off with the RS5, just make sure yours is equipped with all-seasons or winter tires (most RS5s shipped with summer only tires). If your winters are manageable and your snowfall is either none or very mild, a 2011-2013 BMW M3 should be your scalpel of choice.
The following was a review I wrote a few years back. In the middle of writing the review, it turned into something I didn't expect...a comparison review between two rivals. At the time I had eagerly been anticipating the Audi RS5, and while it was a monumental car back then, in retrospect the industry has moved on and it moved on quick. And so have I. So see below what I had to say after wringing about in the RS5.
August 2012:
Audi has been parading around the RS5 for what seems like an eternity now. As a big, and very critical fan of Audis, having owned a 2005 A6 4.2 and then later a 2012 A6 3.0T, it's agonizing for me to anticipate the next great S or RS Audi model. Just imagine how excruciating it was on me to have to endure this awful wait to drive this car, while the Europeans dilly-dallied in their's. It was agonizing simply waiting for the reveal, and moreso waiting for the American launch (that coincided with the 2013 facelift), seeing how Europeans have been enjoying their RS5s since 2011, albeit pre-facelift.
The agony had finally subsided when earlier in the late summer of 2012, I got my chance to get a hold of the RS5's keys and take it out for a drive. Hunkering down into that familiar cabin made me a realize a number of things: for starters, the interior materials are upgraded for the RS5 over your typical A5. Of course the seats are different, as well, as you'd expect them to be. The thumb-press gear lever is now gone, replaced with a trigger-esque one, much like what the Audi TT-S and TT-RS have. And much like the steroidal TTs (that's plural, not the model), the RS5 also dons a new flat-bottomed steering wheel that's textured for increased grip.
All of that hits you within four seconds of stepping foot into the car and you don't really pay much attention to it at first, because you're overcome with giddiness and your sole intent is to fire the car up. And sweet googly-moogly does it sound like fire. Flander-ish excitement out of the way, this thing starts up with a snarl, letting you know you've just awakened a 4.2L European V8 tuned to the glory of 450HP. Soon enough, the car begins to idle really quietly, saving the rest of its vocal chords for your drive…and so that you also don't piss off the neighbors late at night (or early in the morning). Engage the dual clutch transmission by putting it in drive and give it some throttle and it just bellows like a baritone until you've let off and come to a complete stop. Stomp on it hard and what you'll get is an absolutely visceral noise, one that I haven't heard since I drove a 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage. It's sheer hooliganism.
Despite its lack of torque on paper, that power comes in quite early in the range allowing the RS5 to pull like a freight train without ever feeling wheezy or laggy. Some have complained about the low-end being a bit weak, but even on a hot New York day I didn't really find myself bothered by it. The 317 lbs ft. of torque felt adequate for the RS5. It wasn't blistering, but it didn't bother me quite as much as the M3's lack of low-end chest shove. More importantly, with nearly 8300RPM to give, it's the top end that is absolutely sensational, without the slightest bit of break in power. The RS5 is a naturally aspirated, muscle car - honest to goodness refinement, toned to deliver a sledgehammer hit. Nevermind that this car may be a tick slower around a track than the M3, because it triumphs in nearly every other category - from looks, to the interior, to the sensational noise it makes, to the grippy feel of the steering wheel, the adjustable comfort and firmness of the suspension, not to mention that dual clutch transmission, the Bang and Olufsen system, that beautiful rear-deck spoiler rising up with speed, and so forth. Yes, I'm aware the M3 boasts a dual clutch as well, but it does feel a bit clunky at lower speeds (occasionally reminding me of the SMG systems), where as as the Audi's DCT unit is considerably newer and more refined.
To its rightfully due credit, the M3 is without question the better track-star and better performer, there's just no denying it. But it's not quite as well rounded as the RS5, as the Audi exhibits better road manners in addition to giving you very similar thrills. The rear-biased Quattro will allow the RS5 to get just a bit sideways here and there, but nothing like what the M3 can achieve. There's also no denying that the absolute purist will prefer the BMW M3 everyday, especially since it can be had with a manual transmission and it's rear-wheel drive unlike the Audi. But if speed, comfort, gorgeous looks, a howling noise, and year-round use is what you need, it's the Quattro driven RS5 that is the bell ringer here.
Still, it must be note that the Audi's balance, while solid, lacks a few key touches that enthusiasts will covet. One such being the steering is electric. Granted, the steering feels positive and firm, but it inherently lacks feedback and can feel numb on the road, especially compared to the M3. The other thing, there's a bit more body roll with the Audi, than the BMW. Most people won't notice it, but under some sudden maneuvers it's there, which would probably limit the RS5's potential on a track just a tad more. I have no doubt that the Quattro's torque vectoring manages power just fine, but a slightly enhanced sport mode that biases a bit more power rear-ward to induce some controlled oversteer (see: Nissan GT-R) would help this particular German feel easier to throw around and guide on a track. That's just a hunch, as unfortunately, we were not able to track this car during our road test.
Really, the M3 and RS5 are two different cars. They're in the same price bracket, but they aren't quite meant to compete against each other. People who are looking for that best-of-both-worlds car may naturally gravitate towards the Audi RS5, as ultimately it is more capable than the BMW. I've driven numerous E92 M3s over the past few years, but no matter how much I loved the M3, I was always put off by a number of traits. The M3's low-end torque never impressed me, and compared to the RS5 it's down nearly 20lbs of it at nearly the same peak levels - so the RS5 is noticeably more enjoyable to drive low-end than the M3. Additionally, the RS5 actually sounds like it has 450 horsepower…the M3 doesn't. Now, we know the simple fix for that quirk is an exhaust on the BMW. But the cost of an exhaust for an M3 is the equivalent cost of a colonoscopy…a pain that will resonate in your wallet and asshole. So it would have been nice to get a bit more tone out of BMW's S65 motor from the factory, as opposed to having to spend over $1500. Also, BMW's interior and build quality pales compared to Audi's offerings. Where as the RS5, and even the S5, are complete with quiet, well made, high quality materials…the BMW M3, much like its lower-range sibling the 335i, have a propensity to develop some obscure and irritating rattles throughout their cabins. Of course, this is highly dependent on the road conditions of your city and state.
Likewise, the MMI unit found in the Audi is easier to use than that of the BMW, though infotainment quirks such as those are of minor concern to me since I personally tend to figure them out extremely quickly. The key aspect with both the RS5 and the BMW M3 is that they are one of the very, very few cars out there that offer enthusiasts naturally aspirated V8s that rev past 8000RPM with absolutely pristine refinement between the two. So at the end of the day, no matter which car you've chosen, you've chosen well. Not correctly, as every situation differs, but certainly well.
Again, I have to reiterate that it seems downright wrong to compare these two cars as they have fairly different purposes behind those similarly set price brackets. So don't take my critiques of the M3 the wrong way, because it is a sensational car, but it's ultimately not as well rounded as the RS5 is when you factor in everyday use, from the interior, to power output, down to the elements outside. And for me, those are the voids that the RS5 fills over the M3. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go for the RS5 - it manages to hit just a few more notes for me than the M3 does.
-------------
Now I stand by what I wrote three years ago. Most of it. Having owned a BMW 335i Coupe and spending even more time with a 2011 M3, there are some things I can amend in my critiques. The interior quality seems to variate between cars: some rattle, some don't. Also later M3s received a highly revised MMI that added core buttons around the MMI knob that made accessing the system much quicker and more comfortable. Complete reliance on the MMI knob was dialed (pun!) way back in the facelifted cars. Additionally, for 2011 the DCT in the M3 was refined a bit. The LCI (life cycle impulse) updates made to the M3's exterior, particularly the taillights, really added some extra appeal to the car, as the original units had a very pale and flat aesthetic. Still, over time I actually began to prefer the interior aesthetics of the M3 over the RS5. The Audi's problem eventually stuck out like a sore thumb when you realize its interior dates back to 2004 when the sixth-generation Audi A6 debuted as a 2005 model. They're virtually identical interiors. That and the fact that the BMW's iDrive screen started to look much sharper, is larger, and also carried more detail.
As a car that withstands the test of time, the BMW M3 (especially the LCI models) has aged considerably better, where as unfortunately some of the Audi's luster wore off. Still, if the seasonal elements around you prevent you from owning a RWD car year round, and you want a mega-revving V8 you're best off with the RS5, just make sure yours is equipped with all-seasons or winter tires (most RS5s shipped with summer only tires). If your winters are manageable and your snowfall is either none or very mild, a 2011-2013 BMW M3 should be your scalpel of choice.
Good write-up and solid points all around. I looked into S5s and RS5s before I found an M3 I absolutely couldn't pass up on, but the sticker shock of the Audis was nuts. S5s of the same model year with double the miles were the same if not MORE expensive than my M3. That's not fucking right.
I've also contemplated upgrading to an LCI model in a couple of years, but many of the things that the LCI comes with like you mentioned (improved rear taillights) I can do myself. Ditto on the exhaust, I feel that's my #1 priority on this car in the future.
I've also contemplated upgrading to an LCI model in a couple of years, but many of the things that the LCI comes with like you mentioned (improved rear taillights) I can do myself. Ditto on the exhaust, I feel that's my #1 priority on this car in the future.
By reiloGood write-up and solid points all around. I looked into S5s and RS5s before I found an M3 I absolutely couldn't pass up on, but the sticker shock of the Audis was nuts. S5s of the same model year with double the miles were the same if not MORE expensive than my M3. That's not fucking right.
I've also contemplated upgrading to an LCI model in a couple of years, but many of the things that the LCI comes with like you mentioned (improved rear taillights) I can do myself. Ditto on the exhaust, I feel that's my #1 priority on this car in the future.
Yeah, definitely try to get an exhaust. Even just cutting off the heavy ass, rear muffler suitcase makes a MASSIVE difference. Since exhausts don't add any HP on these cars, you might as well go the free route and remove the rear muffler with some simple custom piping. My buddy just took his custom exhaust off of his 2011. If you want the rear section, I don't think he's asking any money for it.
And yeah, even though we were texting about this earlier on, I'm going to expand on my Audi sales comment. I had a sales rep at Biener Audi in Great Neck, he was formerly from Infiniti and had always given my friends and family the sickest deals on Infinitis. But when he made the jump to Audi it's like he entered a stronghold. He could hardly get cars to invoice, because his managers wanted every fucking penny. What does that have to do with used cars?
They split up the used car department into an entirely separate section so that folks like me with sales 'friends' couldn't dig into how much a used car cost the dealership to take in. But I still had my ways. For a while before buying my 370Z I wanted to trade for an S5. The prices on 2-3 year old Audi S5s were always absolutely loony. $50,000 for a fucking used Audi? Uhh...No thanks.
So I got my 370Z, which I later realized was a much faster car than the heavy S5. And more satisfying. But then we needed to get rid of wifey's A4 2.0T. Too many problems with it. So we thought, okay...no more turbos. Let's look at a used A5. Now these cars are 3 years old, off of leases. $40,000? What the fuck!? We got a 2008 335i Coupe for $32,000. Same year. Much faster. Much better inside and out. More room for power increases, you name it.
But eventually my brother bought an R8 V10. And then I came across their used car in/out sheet. My sales buddy was able to get his hands on it and showed me. They took in a used 2009 S5 for $31,000 and had it for sale for $45,000. There was a white Audi A5 3.2 2008, they took it in for 25K and where selling it for $37,000. Uhhh...
Just about the only cars they didn't make a buttload of money on were the A4s (about $3-4K) and the A6s. Fucking insane. All of Audi dealers are in on this too.
By HasphatsAnts Go To Post Cuz most of us can't afford these cars? Just a hunch.
I mean, sure, but it's still an interesting read. Granted, not everyone balls on Alpha's level haha.
By reilo Go To PostI mean, sure, but it's still an interesting read. Granted, not everyone balls on Alpha's level haha.
No it was a good read and I can tell he put a lot of effort in it. It's just that, without any context of having been in the market for a car like that, it's real hard for people to participate in a discussion. Outside of, "huh, neat!"
That's all.
I can't afford a Lambo or Ferrari, but I still read about them religiously.
We need car enthusiasts in this group pronto.
By AlphaSnacks Go To Post I don't understand how my review of an Impala got more views and replies than two sports car. LOL
By HasphatsAnts Go To Post Cuz most of us can't afford these cars? Just a hunch.
By reilo Go To PostI mean, sure, but it's still an interesting read. Granted, not everyone balls on Alpha's level haha.
By AlphaSnacks Go To PostI can't afford a Lambo or Ferrari, but I still read about them religiously.
We need car enthusiasts in this group pronto.
Lambo and Ferrari is exotic tier. They're more novel. Even the people who can afford BMWs will be lucky to drive one in their lifetimes (unless they live in one of those big cities where you can rent a pro driver to take you arould for a lap or two--I've seen the ad in Road & Track). BMWs can be seen on the reg, but a Lambo on the street? Naw.
Besides, BMW is BMW, Audi is Audi, etc. To most Americans, they're just European luxury. Imports. The differences are hardly intelligable to most. But an American will never confuse a Camaro for a Corvette, or a Challenger for a Viper.
