NBA 2017-18 | Feb | "1, 2, 3, to put us all out of our misery"

the names in this video. knux i know you feel me omg

By Red Blaster Go To Postgoing with the theory that fultz is just a dumbass and can't be helped

reviewing the 2017 class, man de'aaron fox is bad–lonzo has actually been way better than him

i tried to tell reilo but he didn't want to hear it

and its not just a little bit here and there either. its by a LOT

Fox has something that will set him apart from Lonzo, and that's his stupid crazy ass speed. And like I said, they're both trash.

Fox is rondo but crazy fast. Not knocking on rondo. Fox wouldve fit fine under luke's system but Im glad magic went with Ball instead.

I know way too many of those names, DY.

tanking. not even once

By reilo Go To PostFox has something that will set him apart from Lonzo, and that's his stupid crazy ass speed. And like I said, they're both trash.

there's shitty fast point guards all over the world breh

only thing fox does better than ball is shoot the 3. and tbh, that's kinda debatable too

for all the shit lonzo got from sports media, fox is waaaaaaaaay more shook behind the 3pt line. lonzo shoots like a toddler but at a much higher volume and is only slightly worse by %

espn got yal in the clouds. ball has been better in every way

Why are we talking about Kings rookies as if Ranadive isn't on some M. Bison master plan to suck the life energy out of the combatants around him to maintain his immortality? Thomas Robinson's ki alone extended his lifespan by like 7 years.

Heh, I was actually just looking up their shooting stats, and you'll be shocked by the results, and which is why I am more bullish on Fox long-term.

In short, Fox shoots terribly wide open, but has stupid high efficiency while guarded. It's the complete opposite for Lonzo.

Lonzo


Fox


Open jumpshots is something you can become better at long-term, but having that kind of efficiency while being guarded closely as a rookie? That's pretty tough to learn. Fox just needs to learn to shoot open jumpers lol

By livefromkyoto Go To PostWhy are we talking about Kings rookies as if Ranadive isn't on some M. Bison master plan to suck the life energy out of the combatants around him to maintain his immortality? Thomas Robinson's ki alone extended his lifespan by like 7 years.

if IT can make it in sacramento, anyone can

At least fox doesnt break.
Lonzo is a delicate flower with the changing of the winds.
No timetable for his return yet. Smh

By reilo Go To PostHeh, I was actually just looking up their shooting stats, and you'll be shocked by the results, and which is why I am more bullish on Fox long-term.

In short, Fox shoots terribly wide open, but has stupid high efficiency while guarded. It's the complete opposite for Lonzo.

Lonzo


Fox


Open jumpshots is something you can become better at long-term, but having that kind of efficiency while being guarded closely as a rookie? That's pretty tough to learn. Fox just needs to learn to shoot open jumpers lol

i'll completely disagree on that. that's not efficiency.

if lonzo can shoot at all throwing shots at the rim like someone just had a hip replacement, then why would you bank on a guy that's a shitty version of raymond felton? shooting good contested shots but bad open ones often means you're just a rhythm shooter - and rhythm shooters often don't improve because they're too entrenched in bad habits to make the changes necessary for long term improvement. ie best case JR smith / worst case Gerald Henderson. if you can't shoot in the NBA while open, you can't really shoot. at least not in a way that helps a team.

fox played like a dozen more games than lonzo but shoots half as much behind the line for a reason. his shot is jank as hell so close outs, when he does get the ball behind the line, shake him up to the point where he'd rather throw himself at the backboard than even attempt a shot

Winslow for cash considerations.

Because Lonzo's form is so completely fucked that having a defender within 4ft of him pretty much does make it impossible for him to be good at shooting contested jumpshots. It's really hard to apply a general rule to Lonzo and take a look at other players before him with broken jumpshots simply because of how bad his wind-up is. If he never fixes his wind-up he will never be good at making contested jumpshots. I stated this before the season started and you just gotta force him to his right and stick to his hip and you'll guarantee a brick simply because of where he starts his motion from (lower-left of his hip).

We already knew he was good at making open jumpshots from college (although 30% on open shots is still awful), but if you make sure to have a defender near him and force him to shoot? That's as good as a turnover.

I just feel like Fox can fix the open jumpshot long-term moreso than I can believe that Lonzo will learn to shoot contested jumpshots.

By reilo Go To PostBecause Lonzo's form is so completely fucked that having a defender within 4ft of him pretty much does make it impossible for him to be good at shooting contested jumpshots. It's really hard to apply a general rule to Lonzo and take a look at other players before him with broken jumpshots simply because of how bad his wind-up is. If he never fixes his wind-up he will never be good at making contested jumpshots. I stated this before the season started and you just gotta force him to his right and stick to his hip and you'll guarantee a brick simply because of where he starts his motion from (lower-left of his hip).

We already knew he was good at making open jumpshots, but if you make sure to have a defender near him and force him to shoot? That's as good as a turnover.

he shoots with more confidence, more often, and at nearly the same percentage with having the worst form in the league. you're also saying "if he never" like he hasn't already improved his shooting as the year's gone on too lol

how's that a good thing for fox? especially when lonzo does everything else significantly better?

you calling that a turnover for lonzo but not even considering that its even worse for fox... dodging open shots to throw hand grenades to teammates is something point guards get railroaded for.

"Kendrick Perkins retires from G-League"

A real headline

So you think it's easier to teach someone to make a jumpshot while someone is on their hip than it is to fix a quirk in a wide open jumpshot? That's insane to me, but ok.

Debate who is more or less mediocre at best brehs.

atleast yall rookies exist

By knux-future Go To Postatleast yall rookies exist

whoa whoa whoa whoa

Who is "yall rookies" here what the fuck man don't insult us like this

By knux-future Go To Postatleast yall rookies exist

simmons don't exist? Usitise doesn't exist.

By reilo Go To PostSo you think it's easier to teach someone to make a jumpshot while someone is on their hip than it is to fix a quirk in a wide open jumpshot? That's insane to me, but ok.

on their hip? that's assuming a lot lol

here's my issue with the contested shot/off the dribble shot analytics - they don't show if the player knows how to separate effectively, if they're turning down good shots for bad ones (why i brought up efficiency), or the definition of contested either

the last point is especially big to me because sacramento is only behind golden fucking state when it comes to 3pt percentage and LA is the worst 3pt shooting team in the league. the way defenses rotate for a team that can shoot and one that can't doesn't translate to those kinds of shooting layouts. its an entirely different look and pace.

plus 23 shots at the range you're emphasizing? that's it?

By DY_nasty Go To Poston their hip? that's assuming a lot lol

here's my issue with the contested shot/off the dribble shot analytics - they don't show if the player knows how to separate effectively, if they're turning down good shots for bad ones (why i brought up efficiency), or the definition of contested either

the last point is especially big to me because sacramento is only behind golden fucking state when it comes to 3pt percentage and LA is the worst 3pt shooting team in the league. the way defenses rotate for a team that can shoot and one that can't doesn't translate to those kinds of shooting layouts. its an entirely different look and pace.

plus 23 shots at the range you're emphasizing? that's it?

I was discussing total field goals, not just threes. 137 attempts vs 139 in the 4-6 "open" range. It's also exactly why I am more bullish: Fox hasn't even attempted that many "open" threes. That's all Lonzo shoots.

By reilo Go To PostI was discussing total field goals, not just threes. 137 attempts vs 139 in the 4-6 "open" range. It's also exactly why I am more bullish: Fox hasn't even attempted that many "open" threes. That's all Lonzo shoots.

still goes back to efficiency then.

fox got one of the most spaced out floors in the league and still can't do shit significantly better in the one area he kinda sorta edges lonzo

he doesn't attempt shots because he's shook af, the same thing lonzo got ripped for but we don't do that for fox for some reason

By DY_nasty Go To Poststill goes back to efficiency then.

fox got one of the most spaced out floors in the league and still can't do shit significantly better in the one area he kinda sorta edges lonzo

he doesn't attempt shots because he's shook af, the same thing lonzo got ripped for but we don't do that for fox for some reason

Take a look at the Frequency %. They're completely inverse. Fox isn't even being given the opportunity to take wide open threes (forcing him into guarded 2 pointers), whereas teams are flat out daring Lonzo to shoot that open three.

Safe to say DSJ is best PG out of the draft class so far? Simmons don't count since he was drafted the year before lol.

By knux-future Go To Postatleast yall rookies exist

Who play first Hayward or Fultz ?

By reilo Go To PostTake a look at the Frequency %. They're completely inverse. Fox isn't even being given the opportunity to take wide open threes (forcing him into guarded 2 pointers), whereas teams are flat out daring Lonzo to shoot that open three.

this is where i stop because you clearly don't watch kings games

people let lonzo shoot and he does. fox gets dared to shoot and he'd rather screw his teammates over

it's like saying winslow is a 40% three point shooter when he only takes the safest, most assisted of three point shots.

fucking pussy

By DY_nasty Go To Postthis is where i stop because you clearly don't watch kings games

The fuck? The NBA has tracking cameras in every arena that provide us these stats. And they are flat out telling you that teams aren't leaving Fox open like they are Lonzo (why I bring up the Freq%) and are daring him to take contested shots, but you want to argue that you watched Fox being always open on TV? Are you gonna honestly argue that the tracking systems got it wrong?

By s y Go To PostWinslow for cash considerations.

If only......

By reilo Go To PostThe fuck? The NBA has tracking cameras in every arena that provide us these stats. And they are flat out telling you that teams aren't leaving Fox open like they are Lonzo (why I bring up the Freq%) and are daring him to take contested shots, but you want to argue that you watched Fox being always open on TV? Are you gonna honestly argue that the tracking systems got it wrong?

breh we really gonna act like the pace on the perimeter for a team that can shoot is the same for a team that can't?

we gonna act like all contested shots are equal? like kawhi contesting a shot is the same as wiggins?

you're working way too hard to give those numbers impact that they don't entirely imply. i'd happily budge a bit if there was a stat for shots passed up or how players are influenced positively/negatively in offenses that can or can't shoot. but those numbers don't exist. that's the issue with analytics in this context.

also your bias is strong af tbh

By s y Go To Postit's like saying winslow is a 40% three point shooter when he only takes the safest, most assisted of three point shots.

fucking pussy

ijs

but fox wont even take winslow freebies. every time i think monk's getting screwed over i look at fox and feel its better that he's not out there getting exposed. right now fox is as good as rookie year shane larkin

By DY_nasty Go To Postbreh we really gonna act like the pace on the perimeter for a team that can shoot is the same for a team that can't?

we gonna act like all contested shots are equal? like kawhi contesting a shot is the same as wiggins?

you're working way too hard to give those numbers impact that they don't entirely imply. i'd happily budge a bit if there was a stat for shots passed up or how players are influenced positively/negatively in offenses that can or can't shoot. but those numbers don't exist. that's the issue with analytics in this context.

also your bias is strong af tbh

lol all that shit exists, but you gotta pay for it. I'm not gonna go around spending thousands of dollars to get that tracking data and parse it out. NBA teams do that in-house with dedicated engineering teams, and I'd be shocked if they didn't tell a similar story to what I am arguing.

And no, they don't give the full picture, but they do give some picture, moreso than it did a decade ago at least. They are point-in-time stats and they are valuable, but you're wayyyyy too focused on the "how did he get there?" They're rookies, the fact that we can quantify nowadays something this specific is pretty damn amazing in my mind and provides some context. Rookies being able to make a shot while being tightly guarded over a season long's worth of data? That's pretty good insight.

All I'm saying that long-term, it's much harder for Lonzo to fix that wind-up-from-the-bottom-of-his-left-hip and not have his go-to move for an easy jumpshot being reliant on a defender sticking to his right.

By DY_nasty Go To Postalso your bias is strong af tbh

And you're the most impartial troll or something lol?

when it comes to pgs i hate them all equally

I'd ask who hurt you but I think I already know the PG's name.

lol you really gonna ding someone for not watching kings games

I literally watched one last night as Damian dropped 50 on Fox's head in 3 quarters and there were moments where still I was like, "man, Fox's athleticism is dumb, that should help him long-term".

By joefu Go To PostSafe to say DSJ is best PG out of the draft class so far? Simmons don't count since he was drafted the year before lol.

Mitchell is going to play PG for most of his career after this year ;)

By reilo Go To PostI literally watched one last night as Damian dropped 50 ".

lol

By s y Go To Postlol

Did I have a typo?

Fox is ish smith fast. He'll be fine.

Maybe not a multiple time all star or whatever but he'll be a useful player.

By s y Go To Postlol

right?

"i watch kings games! my team just shit on them last night!"

Playing PG in the nba is hard as fuck. Most guys will look like shit for 2 seasons or so. Its important that they don't burn out during that.

There is a lot of bullshit these guys get away with on the lower levels that just don't fly on this level. It also takes a really good coach to hate them into submission like Pop did to Tony Parker for example.

By knux-future Go To PostPlaying PG in the nba is hard as fuck. Most guys will look like shit for 2 seasons or so. Its important that they don't burn out during that.

yeah, and some of the biggest 'faults' don't even become apparent to everyone until much later in their careers. at the same time, its a position where one or two things can change everything.

only constant i'll ever commit to is the fact that handles almost never substantially improve. being shook (not the same as passive) is right after that. a team or development crew can fix just about everything else. but you can't install aggression in someone - only beat it out of them.

Winslow has a handle but is too pussy to do anything. Winslow can get to the rim almost to the rim but will miss the layup every time. This kid is so frustrating to watch. NOTHING on on offense besides maybe passing or making a play here or there comes easy to him. I swear middle school kids wouldn't be missing soe of the layups he does.

Not a single spot on the floor or floater that he looks confident in. After a couple bricks, his confidence is SHOT.

By s y Go To PostWinslow has a handle but is too pussy to do anything. Winslow can get to the rim almost to the rim but will miss the layup every time. This kid is so frustrating to watch. NOTHING on on offense besides maybe passing or making a play here or there comes easy to him. I swear middle school kids wouldn't be missing soe of the layups he does.

Not a single spot on the floor or floater that he looks confident in. After a couple bricks, his confidence is SHOT.

Then he gets hurt enough that you think “maybe lingering effect from the injury?”

Infuriating player. I’m tired of him.

By knux-future Go To PostPlaying PG in the nba is hard as fuck. Most guys will look like shit for 2 seasons or so. Its important that they don't burn out during that.

It's a position that separates the true young superstar studs like Mitchell, DSJ or Fred VanVleet from the schmoe wannabes.

By Byakuya769 Go To PostThen he gets hurt enough that you think “maybe lingering effect from the injury?”

Infuriating player. I’m tired of him.

I know right? Ugh. I don't know, dude needs some kind of chip on his back or fire or hunger or something.

By s y Go To PostWinslow has a handle but is too pussy to do anything. Winslow can get to the rim almost to the rim but will miss the layup every time. This kid is so frustrating to watch. NOTHING on on offense besides maybe passing or making a play here or there comes easy to him. I swear middle school kids wouldn't be missing soe of the layups he does.

Not a single spot on the floor or floater that he looks confident in.

im not sure when it happened or how, but winslow has been mindfucked ever since the end of his college career. i can't even say with certainty that miami did it to him either.

regarding his ability to drive... i still think he can do it but his body control is kinda meh and because he's not even confident he'll score when he'll get there, he doesn't even commit to going hard like he should

Dy gonna be blasting super saiyan

The Pels give a fuck tonight in the first quarter.

Against the Nets.