So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
Actual basketball fans have been saying this for a while. Lebron just figured out how to make himself look noble to the mainstream. I'll say this if Marion still has above average Defense in the tank, I am going to have give them the East this year.
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
Actual basketball fans have been saying this for a while. Lebron just figured out how to make himself look noble to the mainstream. I'll say this if Marion still has above average Defense in the tank, I am going to have give them the East this year.
I just can't believe the public is choosing to play stupid after ripping him for literally every tiny thing
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
A Heat fan complaining about this brings warm feelings to my heart.
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
A Heat fan complaining about this brings warm feelings to my heart.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why the rest of the nation has decided to suddenly become stupid and stop analyzing every one of his actions like a teenage girl, as they had done for the past 4 years.
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
no waySo the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
A Heat fan complaining about this brings warm feelings to my heart.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why the rest of the nation has decided to suddenly become stupid and stop analyzing every one of his actions like a teenage girl, as they had done for the past 4 years.
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why the rest of the nation has decided to suddenly become stupid and stop analyzing every one of his actions like a teenage girl, as they had done for the past 4 years.
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
Because it's easier to like a guy when he's being fake-humble and saying it'll be hard to win and take time than an arrogant asshole standing next to Dwyane Wade talking about how it'll be easy to win 8 championships.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why the rest of the nation has decided to suddenly become stupid and stop analyzing every one of his actions like a teenage girl, as they had done for the past 4 years.
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
Because it's easier to like a guy when he's being fake-humble and saying it'll be hard to win and take time than an arrogant asshole standing next to Dwyane Wade talking about how it'll be easy to win 8 championships.
To be fair, Flo Rida had probably already told Lebron that they already won and didn't need to play no more games.
Would probably prefer the Cavs trade Waiters for a center, but this team has the best odds of winning the title right now regardless. LeBron+Love is going to wreck the East offensively and they have mostly good role players around them.
So the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
A Heat fan complaining about this brings warm feelings to my heart.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why MIAMI FANS decided to suddenly become stupid and pretend there was something special about their franchise other than the chance to win to pursue his own personal agenda, and are now flabbergasted that they're the 2010 Cleveland Cavs in this story .
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
Fixed that for you.
Lebron has a chance to be anointed the greatest of all time. He's got a realistic chance of catching Jordan and he needs at least 5 to get there. He's not giving that up for the chance to "one day possibly through hard work" bring one championship to Cleveland.
I believe he absolutely wanted to go home, I believe he absolutely wanted to have a positive impact in Northeast Ohio, but he's not passing up a chance to catch MJ for that. He can make ammends to Ohio for the rest of his life after his career is over if he wanted to. Look at MJ being active in NC as a blueprint.
Also, no one is surprised that ring chasing vets will flock to where he's at, why shouldn't they? And the Cavs are legitimately giving the Wolves the best package for Love so it doesn't seem like collusion which wasn't the case in 2010.
This Cavs thing and the way he's handled it is infinitely better than the 2010, only a Miami fan would equate the two.
no waySo the Cavs apparently got Marion with Allen likely to followThis fucking disgusts me
Now they just need a backup big
LeBron going back to work with the young guys. "This won't be easy! It's a process!"
All he fucking did was jump ship from one superteam to the next one. Disguised by I'M COMING HOME I'M READY FOR THIS CHALLENGE CLEVELAND
A Heat fan complaining about this brings warm feelings to my heart.
I'm not really complaining about what HE did. I'm just wondering why the rest of the nation has decided to suddenly become stupid and stop analyzing every one of his actions like a teenage girl, as they had done for the past 4 years.
Really, I'm starting to think it's more that people don't like the city of Miami.
lol Still think of yourselves as victims. I thought you guys were some of the good ones. I guess all heat fans are alike.
I don't want to believe all Lakers fans can't comprehend what i am saying instead making a strawman to prove their own point, as well as being dense enough to fall for LeBron's words. But I guess all lakers fans are the same.
I don't want to believe all Lakers fans can't comprehend what i am saying instead making a strawman to prove their own point, as well as being dense enough to fall for LeBron's words. But I guess all lakers fans are the same.
If you don't understand why everyone is more or less ok with him leaving Bosh and Wade high and dry and going back to his hometown who drafted him. While they were upset that he left his hometown who drafted him on national TV....then you're just sour.
I don't want to believe all Lakers fans can't comprehend what i am saying instead making a strawman to prove their own point, as well as being dense enough to fall for LeBron's words. But I guess all lakers fans are the same.
The entire country outside of Miami fans with your perspective views this much differently than 2010. Maybe instead of calling us dense, you should ask yourself why that is?
Seeing as how you were equating The Decision 2010 with Magic playing with Kareem and Worthy though, it kind of shows you had no idea just how fucking unique and shitty the Decision 2010 and the aftermath was
"He's got a realistic chance of catching Jordan"
u w0t m8
he cant even catch Magic at this point. he has more finals losses than rings.
u w0t m8
he cant even catch Magic at this point. he has more finals losses than rings.
LeBron has beat Magic in almost all statistical categories for both the regular season and playoffs and LeBron actually had several years of great defense while Magic was always a bad defensive player.
EHI don't want to believe all Lakers fans can't comprehend what i am saying instead making a strawman to prove their own point, as well as being dense enough to fall for LeBron's words. But I guess all lakers fans are the same.
If you don't understand why everyone is more or less ok with him leaving Bosh and Wade high and dry and going back to his hometown who drafted him. While they were upset that he left his hometown who drafted him on national TV….then you're just sour.
hometown has little to do with it IMO.
LeBron has beat Magic in almost all statistical categories for both the regular season and playoffs and LeBron actually had several years of great defense while Magic was always a bad defensive player.
We're going by statistics? For all around play I guess that means Wilt destroys Jordan. Fact is that LeBron hasn't eclipsed Jordan in the combination of both individual and team success. Magic could be argued as the greatest offensive player in history. What he did for the Lakers in the 11 or so years he was there is a testament to this. LeBron is the greatest player of the last decade and will most likely finish as the greatest player since Jordan but better greater than Magic he isn't.
LeBron has beat Magic in almost all statistical categories for both the regular season and playoffs and LeBron actually had several years of great defense while Magic was always a bad defensive player.
yeah but when people rank players it not based on actual skill. it's based on rings and success in the playoffs.
unless we're gonna pretend that all of a sudden rings don't matter, when it's literally been the only thing people ever rank players based on.
Shaq - 23.7 ppg 10.9 rpg 2.3 bpg
Looked at wrong section - edited
Kevin Durant - 27.4 ppg 6.9 rpg 3.5 apg regular season/ 28.9 ppg 8.9 rpg 3.9 apg playoffs
Guess It can be argued DH or perhaps Kevin Durant is a greater player than Shaq...
Looked at wrong section - edited
Kevin Durant - 27.4 ppg 6.9 rpg 3.5 apg regular season/ 28.9 ppg 8.9 rpg 3.9 apg playoffs
Guess It can be argued DH or perhaps Kevin Durant is a greater player than Shaq...
If D12 averaged 26 PPG, he might be one of the 15 best players ever, lol.
Yep, I was looking at the wrong section. Nevertheless, the point holds. You want to argue Kevin Durant is a greater player than Shaq? Want to argue that Oscar Robertson was a better point guard than John Stockton?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I seem to remember you supporting the idea of Hakeem and Shaq being better than Wilt?
Stats say otherwise...
Stats say otherwise...
Stats say otherwise. If we're going by stats to prove LeBron is greater than Magic as IWMTB19 argued than Wilt is still better than Shaq and Hakeem.
i'm actually not playing. I'm using master idle app to get the cards from all of my games to sell on the market to get Steam credit. Already have $30 and I still have another 245 more games to go :(
And LeBron on showtime may work, may not have. No way to know. It's like saying Russell on the Celtics instead of Russell would lead them to as much/more success. No way to know but all signs point to no. Magic was the player that the Lakers needed. He was showtime. Put MJ on the Bulls instead of MJ or the Celtics instead of Bird, they probably won't win as much.
And LeBron on showtime may work, may not have. No way to know. It's like saying Russell on the Celtics instead of Russell would lead them to as much/more success. No way to know but all signs point to no. Magic was the player that the Lakers needed. He was showtime. Put MJ on the Bulls instead of MJ or the Celtics instead of Bird, they probably won't win as much.
Whose hating? I'm not hating on LeBron at all. As I said, he'll end up as the greatest player since Jordan. My point is using stats as a barometer to compare players in of itself is foolishness just as using rings by itself is foolish. I'd take LeBron over Kobe and it's not close but this debate isn't about LeBron.
I'm just saying. Just because the Lakers shit the bed in colossal fashion when their super team from 2 years ago didn't even make it out the gate, it doesn't mean that an overabundance of talent surrounding guys is going to make them suddenly less successful.
plus the $tat$ argument really doesn't translate well at all across eras
plus the $tat$ argument really doesn't translate well at all across eras
LeBron has beat Magic in almost all statistical categories for both the regular season and playoffs and LeBron actually had several years of great defense while Magic was always a bad defensive player.
oh shit
what have you done
I'm just saying. Just because the Lakers shit the bed in colossal fashion when their super team from 2 years ago didn't even make it out the gate, it doesn't mean that an overabundance of talent surrounding guys is going to make them suddenly less successful.
plus the $tat$ argument really doesn't translate well at all across eras
No shit. But it also doesn't mean it will make them more successful. Would MJ on the Celtics instead of Bird translate to more success than Bird on the Bulls? Who knows. Again, not the issue.
And I agree, stats argument doesn't translate well across eras which is my point against IWMTB19.
Stockton's stats are amazing, he was 11th in plus or minus even in the last year of his career and has the 5th most win shares ever. Not sure Stockton vs. Oscar is a good one to go with.
Magic in the 80s vs. LeBron now statistically is way different from Wilt's stats from the fuckball era, especially since blocks and turnovers weren't even counted and Wilt's teams were consistently bad offensively when he was with the Warriors.
I don't see it being bad to have a comparison point being statistical for two players? LeBron having a much greater defensive career (even though it's been up and down) is a more important edge on Magic than his statistics, but LeBron does have a statistical edge and that's something.
Magic in the 80s vs. LeBron now statistically is way different from Wilt's stats from the fuckball era, especially since blocks and turnovers weren't even counted and Wilt's teams were consistently bad offensively when he was with the Warriors.
I don't see it being bad to have a comparison point being statistical for two players? LeBron having a much greater defensive career (even though it's been up and down) is a more important edge on Magic than his statistics, but LeBron does have a statistical edge and that's something.
Wilt's stats are still his stats. Unless you can somehow scientifically show what Shaq and Hakeem would do in his era, it's all just assumptions and speculation. Seems to me you're now including more variables than just stats which is my point. Comparing players across generations simply doesn't work. Trying to argue what one player would do on a team that he didn't play in doesn't work. Magic was the perfect player for the Lakers in the 80s. He made showtime run. Could MJ have brought the Lakers just as much success? Who knows. Would LeBron have dominated just as much on the 80s Lakers? Nobody knows. What we have are stats and measurement tools that go beyond stats which are based more on opinion than anything but are still important in determining who is greater than who.
LeBron averaging more points than Magic is shocking why? Magic averaging more assists is shocking how? Magic averaging the SAME amount of rebounds for a POINT guard IS quite impressive. LeBron has ALWAYS been THE scoring machine on his team. Magic's job was to help OTHERS score. Why are you going to use such a stat as a measurement as to who is greater? Should we use assists for Magic over LeBron even though one was the PG and the other the scoring forward? Come on man.
LeBron averaging more points than Magic is shocking why? Magic averaging more assists is shocking how? Magic averaging the SAME amount of rebounds for a POINT guard IS quite impressive. LeBron has ALWAYS been THE scoring machine on his team. Magic's job was to help OTHERS score. Why are you going to use such a stat as a measurement as to who is greater? Should we use assists for Magic over LeBron even though one was the PG and the other the scoring forward? Come on man.
If you don't want to use stats, then LeBron having had five elite defensive years while Magic had zero seems to be a bit of an advantage there... LeBron has won titles half the years he's had a great supporting cast (though calling last year's Heat "great" is probably a dramatic stretch) and has won zero with a terrible supporting cast, I don't think that really differs from Magic in demonstrating ability to win.
LeBron has a below 50% in the finals so far. Define great supporting cast? Who defines it, who measures that? Magic's ability to carry a team without much star power was displayed just as much as LeBron. Magic didn't go from one team to another to another. Also, notice I haven't said Magic is better or not. My point has been you can't depend on stats alone and as DY said it's almost impossible to compare players of different generations.
almost
there are things that work and things that don't
like wilt, in particular
Nope. How can you compare LeBron to say Jordan when the defenses were much different. The rules in general were different. How can you compare say Dwight Howard who plays at a time when quality big men are a dying breed to say guys like Shaq/Hakeem the 90s when quality centers were quite plentiful? You can argue that Wilt's competition was shitty and 6'9 white guys as many do and you'd be wrong. The height difference in the 60s-70s for big men weren't significantly different at all compared to now. Hakeem wasn't 7ft. Dwight isn't 7ft. Alonzo wasn't 7ft. They were all 6'10-6'11, about an inch taller or the same height as a guy like Russell who Wilt played often. Would Wilt score 50ppg in 2014? No. Would Dwight score 50 points in 1962? I'd bet quite a lot that he wouldn't. Fact is all you can do is look at what a player did against his competition and Wilt dominated his competition statistically more than any other player after him. That is as fact.
almost
there are things that work and things that don't
like wilt, in particular
Nope. How can you compare LeBron to say Jordan when the defenses were much different. The rules in general were different. How can you compare say Dwight Howard who plays at a time when quality big men are a dying breed to say guys like Shaq/Hakeem the 90s when quality centers were quite plentiful? You can argue that Wilt's competition was shitty and 6'9 white guys as many do and you'd be wrong. The height difference in the 60s-70s for big men weren't significantly different at all compared to now. Hakeem wasn't 7ft. Dwight isn't 7ft. Alonzo wasn't 7ft. They were all 6'10-6'11, about an inch taller or the same height as a guy like Russell who Wilt played often. Would Wilt score 50ppg in 2014? No. Would Dwight score 50 points in 1962? I'd bet quite a lot that he wouldn't. Fact is all you can do is look at what a player did against his competition and Wilt dominated his competition statistically more than any other player after him. That is as fact.
almost
there are things that work and things that don't
like wilt, in particular
Nope. How can you compare LeBron to say Jordan when the defenses were much different. The rules in general were different. How can you compare say Dwight Howard who plays at a time when quality big men are a dying breed to say guys like Shaq/Hakeem the 90s when quality centers were quite plentiful? You can argue that Wilt's competition was shitty and 6'9 white guys as many do and you'd be wrong. The height difference in the 60s-70s for big men weren't significantly different at all compared to now. Hakeem wasn't 7ft. Dwight isn't 7ft. Alonzo wasn't 7ft. They were all 6'10-6'11, about an inch taller or the same height as a guy like Russell who Wilt played often. Would Wilt score 50ppg in 2014? No. Would Dwight score 50 points in 1962? I'd bet quite a lot that he wouldn't. Fact is all you can do is look at what a player did against his competition and Wilt dominated his competition statistically more than any other player after him. That is as fact.
No hate at all. Just calling out the false idea of statistical dominance equates to greater player.
Was he the greatest PG ever? Yes. Did he help lead his team to 9 finals? Yes. Did he win 5? Yes. Did he win 3 MVP's? Yes. Did he take a team without it's MVP to the championship in game 6 his rookie year? Yes. Did he take a pretty unimpressive and injury limited team to the NBA finals in 91? Yes. Defense wasn't his strong point but free throws weren't Shaq's, Russell's, or Wilt's.
defense on the same level of importance as FTs
and this is some classic lakers feeljerking. god i can't wait til phoenix drafts okafor with your pick
and this is some classic lakers feeljerking. god i can't wait til phoenix drafts okafor with your pick
defense on the same level of importance as FTs
and this is some classic lakers feeljerking. god i can't wait til phoenix drafts okafor with your pick
Shaq missed around 6000 free throws in his career. I'd imagine that plenty of those misses contributed to losses. Poor defense can also can contribute to losses. At the end of the day isn't winning and losing the end goal?