Bigots don't take words from us, we give the words to them
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So after a discussion on Discord with a very tired Alcotholic, I thought I'd bring the idea here.
So it all started with a conversation about Maroon 5's new album cover with a user asking if Maroon 5 were Men Rights Activists because the album was titled Red Pill Blues. The title is meant to be a reference to the 1999 film The Matrix in which a Red Pill symbolizes the truth of reality while the Blue Pill symbolizes blissful ignorance of illusions. In recent years MRA groups have adopted the Red Pill symbology as a metaphor for the specific moment when they come to the belief that certain gender roles they are expected to conform to (e.g. marriage, monogamy) are intended to benefit women, not themselves.
The user argued that the idea of the Red Pill in its original context (the same context Maroon 5 were using it in) was ruined because MRA groups had adopted it and tainted it. My argument is that MRA groups hadn't tainted the idea, we had by associating with them and allowing them to own it.
The same thing happened with Pepe the Frog, which was a loveable meme everyone used until halfway through 2016 when it was declared an Alt-Right symbol by the media. The Alt-Right hadn't taken it from us, we gave it to them because we stopped using it. It became a hate symbol the second it was labelled as such, because then people stopped using it.
If ISIS started using Looney Tunes imagery in their propaganda would we simply give them Bugs Bunny and the rest of Looney Tunes? God, I hope not.
Society decides what the meaning behind something is, and its time we recognised that and used it to take ownership rather then leaving it for the bigots.
So it all started with a conversation about Maroon 5's new album cover with a user asking if Maroon 5 were Men Rights Activists because the album was titled Red Pill Blues. The title is meant to be a reference to the 1999 film The Matrix in which a Red Pill symbolizes the truth of reality while the Blue Pill symbolizes blissful ignorance of illusions. In recent years MRA groups have adopted the Red Pill symbology as a metaphor for the specific moment when they come to the belief that certain gender roles they are expected to conform to (e.g. marriage, monogamy) are intended to benefit women, not themselves.
The user argued that the idea of the Red Pill in its original context (the same context Maroon 5 were using it in) was ruined because MRA groups had adopted it and tainted it. My argument is that MRA groups hadn't tainted the idea, we had by associating with them and allowing them to own it.
The same thing happened with Pepe the Frog, which was a loveable meme everyone used until halfway through 2016 when it was declared an Alt-Right symbol by the media. The Alt-Right hadn't taken it from us, we gave it to them because we stopped using it. It became a hate symbol the second it was labelled as such, because then people stopped using it.
If ISIS started using Looney Tunes imagery in their propaganda would we simply give them Bugs Bunny and the rest of Looney Tunes? God, I hope not.
Society decides what the meaning behind something is, and its time we recognised that and used it to take ownership rather then leaving it for the bigots.
By GQman2121 Go To Post<snip>
Forgot to include what MRA means, thank. It's fixed.
MRAs are mostly white guys, and we generally let white guys do whatever they want because that's the way everything is set up to function.
It doesn't matter what symbols ISIS uses, we're not going to treat them like white guys. We're going to bomb them and everybody that looks like them.
It doesn't matter what symbols ISIS uses, we're not going to treat them like white guys. We're going to bomb them and everybody that looks like them.
I saw this article, thought of that discussion and decided to bring the discussion here.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/10/technology/culture/divided-we-code-red-pill/index.html
This exposé does a good job outlining the culture and men have when deep in it.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/10/technology/culture/divided-we-code-red-pill/index.html
This exposé does a good job outlining the culture and men have when deep in it.
I mean, there’s a line that needs to be drawn somewhere. How ubiquitous does its negative meaning have to become before it’s ruined? Is there a way to recapture something’s meaning once it’s been coopted by something else?
IMO both Pepe and The Red Pill are largely Internet culture. I don’t think either have reached a level in society at which they can’t have their negative meanings changed
IMO both Pepe and The Red Pill are largely Internet culture. I don’t think either have reached a level in society at which they can’t have their negative meanings changed
I just don't want to defend Maroon 5 (even if they are in the right) in any scenario, is that too much to ask?
By Alcotholic Go To PostI saw this article, thought of that discussion and decided to bring the discussion here.So this basically is/or became a white nationalist movement.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/10/technology/culture/divided-we-code-red-pill/index.html
This exposé does a good job outlining the culture and men have when deep in it.
I'm shocked.
The situation of Pepe --mostly in that it was a tool meme who's "meaning" changed substantially in the past 5 years from being about peeing, to multi-emotion, to goatse, to being a rare image macro commodity-- is one that makes me straight up mad due to how it was never owned by any one group until certain groups decided who owned it now whom probably had no place telling everyone that. Honestly, the giving of pepe to supremacists was a huge step to normalizing them into normal culture, and that frustrates me even more.
Interestingly, a better example of what the OP is talking about is what happened to the Facebook Trash Doves.
Some dumb person decided to create faux-symbols using Trashdoves merged with facist symbolism in an attempt to see if people would react the same way they did with pepe's "acquisition". Some white nationalists and nazis and "alt-right" jerks started posting them, then one or two Medium blog posts later, and now people saw "Trash doves" as a hate symbol. Imo, that whole scenario was 10x more stupid and pathetic than Pepe.
Another great example is the current happenings with Papa John's pizza and the "endorsement" (even though that's not how endorsements or "official" statuses work) from white nationalists. As much as I hate what the CEO of Papa John's said wrt the NFL and whatnot, the amount of people basically saying "yeah, white nationalists can go and have it, idgaf" is shocking and sickening to me. IMO, the white nationalists and bigots should have been mocked and treated as idiots for this, and yet they were treated seriously and normalized because of it.
Interestingly, a better example of what the OP is talking about is what happened to the Facebook Trash Doves.
Some dumb person decided to create faux-symbols using Trashdoves merged with facist symbolism in an attempt to see if people would react the same way they did with pepe's "acquisition". Some white nationalists and nazis and "alt-right" jerks started posting them, then one or two Medium blog posts later, and now people saw "Trash doves" as a hate symbol. Imo, that whole scenario was 10x more stupid and pathetic than Pepe.
Another great example is the current happenings with Papa John's pizza and the "endorsement" (even though that's not how endorsements or "official" statuses work) from white nationalists. As much as I hate what the CEO of Papa John's said wrt the NFL and whatnot, the amount of people basically saying "yeah, white nationalists can go and have it, idgaf" is shocking and sickening to me. IMO, the white nationalists and bigots should have been mocked and treated as idiots for this, and yet they were treated seriously and normalized because of it.