By More_Badass Go To PostAnother GAFfer searching for a new home. Signed up here and Waypoint, to get a feel for both. Really liking the thread layout and format here.
And yeah, GAF had been such a big part of my internet activity for the last four years. GAF introduced me to the wider world of indie games, Hardcore History and podcasts, comics and manga, so many movies, books, and shows, and most importantly, in opening my eyes politics-wise. There was nowhere else that felt as safe as GAF to discuss political topics (or even topics in general) without having to worry about YouTube comments entering the thread.
More_Badass my dude pls set up shop somewhere again. Literally every indie game thread I clicked and thought "Man this looks dope, I would've never known about it without GAF" was created by you.
By More_Badass Go To PostAnother GAFfer searching for a new home. Signed up here and Waypoint, to get a feel for both. Really liking the thread layout and format here.Welcome and enjoy your stay.
And yeah, GAF had been such a big part of my internet activity for the last four years. GAF introduced me to the wider world of indie games, Hardcore History and podcasts, comics and manga, so many movies, books, and shows, and most importantly, in opening my eyes politics-wise. There was nowhere else that felt as safe as GAF to discuss political topics (or even topics in general) without having to worry about YouTube comments entering the thread.
We got a few historians among us, and plenty of interested people from what I could gather from this topic.
By potam Go To PostThat's what I'm getting at. There's a lot of middle ground and misinformation that can be used and "re-educated" (for lack of a better term). But people want to instantly jump down someone's throat because they read an article the other day arguing for welfare reforms, and they mention it in a discussion.This certainly is ideal.
But I think you also have to see some frustrations out there. I mean, there is a campaign in the real world to delegitimize historically reliable/accountable news sources, science, research, etc. So if one tries to cite those to help with a good discussion and education, it is dismissed as #fakenews. And then there is little to no hope of anything productive beyond that. There is a ton of that out there - especially on the internet. I wager there are many more spaces open to that on the internet than the opposite. Just from my experience looking at any random discussion community.
By potam Go To Postdid you purposefully misread my post? I know you truncated my post in your quote, but you left in the "almost", genius.
I'd say Nazism fits quite nicely in the black and white category.
Look I'm not here to beat people to a bloody pulp but I'd like to think I shouldn't have to say here the Nazism is bad.
By DY_nasty Go To Postwhere was he talking about nazis lolThe broader issue is consistently being told it's the responsibility of others to convince people not to be shit, people who aren't even coming to the discussion in good faith and just want to proffer the current hegemonic nastiness.
like…. i understand gafisms, i do. but you cannot take a "we should discuss things" and immediately default to ISIS and Nazis.
that's not even entertaining the idea of a conversation. if the conversation goes that way, it goes that way - and we deal with it there. in the meantime we're not gonna be shouting down the thought of discussion on sight
By Bold 2 in One Go To PostNot for PC specifically yet, so far it has just been a General Destiny thread.
Feel free to join the clan.
http://slaent.com/thread/1096905/page/1/
Word. DESTINY 2 PC BOYZ!!!
By Grimsat Go To PostI have no idea what you’re talking about lol.You will know soon enough. Patience my lost sheep.
By IrishNinja Go To Postoh my god we're literally wheeling out the black blues player who chills with the klan again, you can't make shit shit up
few posts away from a butchered MLK quote and something about why trump won
yeah some of those commenting on women's bodies threads were graveyards and i get where being caught up in that was shitty, no doubt - especially since bans weren't nearly across the board. i get that.
on the other hand, i also get why wanting to foster an environment where women feel comfortable/not perpetually objectified by the usual boys club that is internet gaming forums necessitates not allowing page after page after page of thirsty dudes & NICE with the occasional colorful commentary about what they'd do with that if they had a few minutes alone
i don't doubt they banned for absurd shit being said but there was a point on GAF where that shit was out of control years back
I feel like the huge emphasis placed on banning, even if it was temporary, lead to GAF's reputation as a far left bubble, even if it wasn't true. I know a lot of forums with similiar rules to GAF, but they don't ban people outright for breaking rules. You given warnings, infraction points, prevented from posting in the same thread for a day or two. All smaller punishments that don't carry the outright severity of a ban. Given how much some Gaffers loved to anticipate a ban graveyard when a mod come in to comment, it contributed to the bubble status.
By DominicanPower Go To PostI forget that gaf mods and Evil Lore fucked NBA gaf and forced them to create this site. lol
as a fan of blackace i never forgave duckroll for this
the soul still burns
By Dreams-Visions Go To Postblasphemy.Fight us m95. Mention your goat map
further heresy will not be tolerated.
By TheHunter Go To PostI'd say Nazism fits quite nicely in the black and white category.
Look I'm not here to beat people to a bloody pulp but I'd like to think I shouldn't have to say here the Nazism is bad.
again, dude, I used qualifiers like "almost". That means I understand Nazism is bad. I shouldn't have to spell that part out for you, just so you don't automatically jump to that conclusion.
If you put a mirror in front of a GAFer, do they have the self-awareness to recognize themselves?
Irish? Potam? Couldya dial it back just a bit? Regardless of which of you is right, we just got here. I'd like to make a better first impression
By telosfortelos Go To PostI think that was a problem, but that wasn’t a moderation problem but a dogpile problem. Angelus mentioned on the last page that dogpiling is natural within an established community, and I agree, but I think there are things that can limit it. I wish mods had intervened a bit more - ideally with warnings about slowing down on the dogpiling and sometimes vicious language. Some forum features, like reactions, can also let people express agreement without flooding discussion with louder and louder comments that effectively translate to +1. Not an easy problem to solve though.
Anyway, I’ll miss thoughtful comments from people like mumei and stump. I’ll miss some of the communities. I’ll miss some of the big annual list threads (did the results from this year’s rpg thread ever get posted?). I’ll miss good people who cared about marginalized groups. I’ll miss nerding out reading pages from obscure comics. I’ll miss yoshi hate-loving games. I’ll miss discovering interesting books and movies and podcasts.
But that’s how things go. I lost another community once before in dumbrella (still no clue what happened to it). I doubt anyone at either community would recognize me anyway.
Hopefully we’ll all find equally engaging things in some other community. Maybe this one!
Action and non-action is a signal either way., And humans are perceptive and most pick up on those cues.
What tended to happen in most discussions is that people that exhibited out-group views were subject to greater scrutiny by moderation while those dog pile participants were subject to little scrutiny, often rewarded for their efforts by getting a ban handed out to the wrong-thinker. Depending on where your position fell in relation to the implicit boundaries of acceptable opinion a mod had determined how strictly you were moderated. That becomes obviously problematic over time as that process continually repeats itself.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostKotaku article is up by the way.
Yooooooo slaentmins I hope you were ready for the tidal wave of fuccery this thread has brought lmao
its like gaf never died already. growing was a mistake. we should have stayed luxembourg sized
WE'RE LIKE FUCKIN SWITZERLAND NOW
its like gaf never died already. growing was a mistake. we should have stayed luxembourg sized
WE'RE LIKE FUCKIN SWITZERLAND NOW
By ned_ballad Go To PostWe're already retconning how GAF fell 24 hours after it happened?
It wasn't because users or mods were uptight or too liberal. It was because the owner was a sexual assaulter, then tried poorly to talk his way out of it, lost all of the site's staff, and forced it to close due to having no moderators and the chaos that comes with that.
This.
It's so bizarre, though not unexpected, that so many salty ass dudes online are acting like GAF imploded due to an overload of hypocrisy.
That's not what happened.
The owner was found out to be a creep. The community reacted as expected and thoroughly rejected him. Mods felt the same and resigned. Lawlessness set in and the site went to shit.
Yes, there had been accusations of sexual misconduct before, and some with proof, and a lot of people knew about that, but ultimately it's what led to GAF collapsing. If Evilore did not have any prior history of being a creep, I have no doubt we'd all still be posting there as usual trying to get some answers, with, I am sure, a good portion of GAF extending Evilore the benefit of doubt.
But that's not what happened because GAF had enough of his shit, and here we are.
Like I do agree that a lot of GAF goes to the extreme whenever they're challenged.
I remember taking shit for saying "Anthony Fantano isn't a Nazi" when that thread came up in there, and people were like "why are you defending a white supremacist" when my point wasn't even that Anthony Fantano was good actually, rather than "Nazi has a pretty specific meaning, let's not dilute the total meaning of that word."
I remember taking shit for saying "Anthony Fantano isn't a Nazi" when that thread came up in there, and people were like "why are you defending a white supremacist" when my point wasn't even that Anthony Fantano was good actually, rather than "Nazi has a pretty specific meaning, let's not dilute the total meaning of that word."
By TheHunter Go To PostI'm not gaslighting him.I stepped in and saw that as the top post.
Nazism at it's core is a belief that white race is superior and other races must be removed. I see no middle ground to that ideology.
I've been informed it was a "un-moderate" reaction to another post that may have been the instigator.
The point stands, even if it was derived incorrectly, but apologies for single-ing you out.
Kotaku posted their GAF article
https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151
https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151
Kotaku put a summary article up:
https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151
I'm surr they'll have more insight into this soon.
Edit: dammit.
https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151
I'm surr they'll have more insight into this soon.
Edit: dammit.
By Megatherium Go To PostI’m going to dip out at this point after making some observations. Hopefully all of this being contained to this thread should make this discussion okay.What if I go into a thread expecting to see things about the game and see people talking shit about the developer? What if I want to engage in a discussion about the damn game? I don't engage in topics I don't care about - I enter a thread, see the shit show and turn around. I have no interest in it.
- If you enter into a thread about a boycott to declare that you don’t care about the boycott or what led to it, you are on the same footing as anyone coming out explicitly for or against it. You are acting to confront others with Your own view on it, and are opening it up to critique. You don’t get to cry persecution. You don’t get to say the issue was forced on you. It’s lame as fuck. A person who really doesn’t care doesn’t talk about the boycott, doesn’t engage in threads about the boycott, and subsequently never ever gets bothered by it, unlike those making false claims here of not caring but somehow being forced to get involved.
That's why I rarely posted on GAF.
-So much criticism of GAF here has been rote lines about echo chambers and safe spaces. Demanding that politics don’t come up on your forum, or that you be spared criticism for being conservative, that you be spared from seeing activism surrounding games, etc, are the EXACT SAME THING you’re complaining about. It is just the particular style of safe space you want for yourself, and more strict honestly than what GAF ever was.There's a place to discuss certain topics. A game announcement thread is not the place to discuss about the GG dev imo, f.e. . People can discuss whatever they like on a proper thread made for it. That's why OT's on NeoGaf were a thing.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostThe irony (hypocrisy?) in this is they'll defend their social security to the bitter end.So true but it speaks about the human psyche in general: it's only ok if I do it or my social welfare is not the same as yours.
By NovemberMagnus Go To PostIrish? Potam? Couldya dial it back just a bit? Regardless of which of you is right, we just got here. I'd like to make a better first impression
Yeah, Uh, we're not with them.
By n8 dogg Go To Postwe should have stayed luxembourg sizedI always knew you were a brexiter. I’m proud of you.
WE'RE LIKE FUCKIN SWITZERLAND NOW
Can I get a pm with the gaf discord? I'm interested in contributing positively from whatever rises from Gaf's ashes whether it is here or on a new forum.
By potam Go To Postagain, dude, I used qualifiers like "almost". That means I understand Nazism is bad. I shouldn't have to spell that part out for you, just so you don't automatically jump to that conclusion.Well it's hard to tell anymore.
If you put a mirror in front of a GAFer, do they have the self-awareness to recognize themselves?
All I said is if people want to try to help reform monsters and bad people you do you, but don't blame or shout down those of us who rally against said evils. They know what they're doing is wrong.
For people just being stupid or saying bad things of course don't dogpile on them. It was one of my turnoffs from gaf but the fact that in 2017 I have to actually say out loud Nazis are bad scares me.
By Epsilon-delta Go To PostSo true but it speaks about the human psyche in general: it's only ok if I do it.
Yeah what are you gonna do really. Anyway my point stands and all this hand wringing about what to call folks endorsing genocide or how nicely we treat them is just indicative of a larger problem. Not only is it futile, it's just such a waste of resources.
By Net_Wrecker Go To PostMore_Badass my dude pls set up shop somewhere again. Literally every indie game thread I clicked and thought "Man this looks dope, I would've never known about it without GAF" was created by you.Can we set up another P&C adventure thread? That was one of the most informative threads in gaf.
By NovemberMagnus Go To PostIrish? Potam? Couldya dial it back just a bit? Regardless of which of you is right, we just got here. I'd like to make a better first impression
fair enough. I'm not trying to get into arguments (that might be a lie), but it was just nice seeing people able to breathe and air their grievances with GAF, and it was annoying seeing some people come in and try to act like nothing was wrong.
By giririsss Go To PostI stepped in and saw that as the top post.
I've been informed it was a "un-moderate" reaction to another post that may have been the instigator.
The point stands, even if it was derived incorrectly, but apologies for single-ing you out.
Alls fine.
I'm not here to cause trouble and I agree, we need to start talking to each other again. It's why were in our current situation. Some groups don't need to be acknowledged though.
By Megatherium Go To PostI’m going to dip out at this point after making some observations. Hopefully all of this being contained to this thread should make this discussion okay.*golf claps*
- If you enter into a thread about a boycott to declare that you don’t care about the boycott or what led to it, you are on the same footing as anyone coming out explicitly for or against it. You are acting to confront others with Your own view on it, and are opening it up to critique. You don’t get to cry persecution. You don’t get to say the issue was forced on you. It’s lame as fuck. A person who really doesn’t care doesn’t talk about the boycott, doesn’t engage in threads about the boycott, and subsequently never ever gets bothered by it, unlike those making false claims here of not caring but somehow being forced to get involved.
- Politics is often and easily used to enshrine problematic opinions in some immunity field. A political belief that pushes toward inclusiveness is not equal to a political belief that pushes toward exclusiveness, in terms of how it can exist in a community. They are not two sides of the same coin. It’s much easier to ask someone to tolerate someone’s acceptance of all cultures/specialities/etc., than to tell someone to tolerate someone’s hatred of their demographic background. Is that not fair because it gives liberalism an advantage? Welcome to he real world snowflakes/no safe space/etc. Conservatives have a duty here to “man up” and accept that if they are going to have increasingly coarse and hostile views toward others on a diverse internet, they are going to take some due heat for it. Those ideas are not your race, sexuality, culture, or anything else except IDEAS. You are not being persecuted if those ideas are unpopular or they court some negative judgements.
-So much criticism of GAF here has been rote lines about echo chambers and safe spaces. Demanding that politics don’t come up on your forum, or that you be spared criticism for being conservative, that you be spared from seeing activism surrounding games, etc, are the EXACT SAME THING you’re complaining about. It is just the particular style of safe space you want for yourself, and more strict honestly than what GAF ever was.
I agree that there shouldn't be a middle ground and everyone should take a stance when it comes to these controversial topics. However, only through civil discourse are we able to challenge those who are neutral/apathetic.
Guys, there's lots of anger in this thread. Some of you are up here -------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are going to need you to be down here -------------------------------------------------------------
We are going to need you to be down here -------------------------------------------------------------
By n8 dogg Go To PostYooooooo slaentmins I hope you were ready for the tidal wave of fuccery this thread has brought lmao
its like gaf never died already. growing was a mistake. we should have stayed luxembourg sized
WE'RE LIKE FUCKIN SWITZERLAND NOW
how you feel about a million Trump tweet threads?
By IrishNinja Go To Postnah, ill comment on examples (as ive done here) as i please, and stay in the ass of "race baiting" type folks as i like tooUgh, this struggle.
ill do that on my way in the door too, and you'll enjoy it or walk on by like dione warwick - bless up
By More_Badass Go To PostAnother GAFfer searching for a new home. Signed up here and Waypoint, to get a feel for both. Really liking the thread layout and format here.
And yeah, GAF had been such a big part of my internet activity for the last four years. GAF introduced me to the wider world of indie games, Hardcore History and podcasts, comics and manga, so many movies, books, and shows, and most importantly, in opening my eyes politics-wise. There was nowhere else that felt as safe as GAF to discuss political topics (or even topics in general) without having to worry about YouTube comments entering the thread.
I miss the Indie threads already
By Angelus Errare Go To PostKotaku posted their GAF article
https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151
Welp. This
In a phone conversation with Kotaku, Leupp said that even after the alleged shower incident, she’d continued her friendship and even had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015.
Might lend credence to Evilore supposedly claiming it was a love triangle type situation.
By Ruga Go To Posthow you feel about a million Trump tweet threads?
ban yourself now
By Rumblebones Go To PostWelp. This
Might lend credence to Evilore supposed claiming it was a love triangle type situation.
Yup. Sadly many folks are going to see that as some sort of vindication for Evilore and ignore/excuse the entire incident.
GAF could have updated itself and allowed tagging and stuff and half the stuff people complaining about would have been gone off their feed. A lot of your frustrations are also a result of not doing shit with the UI.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostYeah what are you gonna do really. Anyway my point stands and all this hand wringing about what to call folks endorsing genocide or how nicely we treat them is just indicative of a larger problem. Not only is it futile, it's just such a waste of resources.I agree.
I am convinced people want to stay wilfully ignorant on certain issues.
By Bold 2 in One Go To PostCan someone please make a Buffy/Angel thread?
thanks in advance
Make sure to include the subsequent comicbook seasons, thanks.
The GAF withdrawal is real. This sends like a nice place and I'm sure I'll join the discussions in the sports threads mostly, but the GAF community was something else. The gaming side was second to none when it came to breaking news. Hopefully the mods can start a new GAF site without EL and his enablers.
By IrishNinja Go To Postthe longer this goes, the more i gotta assume he's searching for a bidder or figuring out some other angle - his "responses" were always verbose back-patting that never struck me as having a great deal of time or thought put into them.
the drafts would be fun to see
HOW DARE YOU CUN
First of all, Neogaf dot com is a premier internet
have you even seen her? frankly i can do bett
We are known far & wide for respecting women, and frankly what had happened wa
I HAVE FOUGHT A THOUSAND MEN
Hahaha
By IrishNinja Go To Postill do that on my way in the door too, and you'll enjoy it or walk on by like dione warwick - bless upEverybody should show some R.E.S.P.E.C.T like Arethra Franklin or they'll have Nowhere to Run like Martha and the Vandellas.