A large portion of gamers are Black, Hispanic, and Female; Yet the games & the industry DO NOT reflect that.
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Inspired of a recent Twitter conversation, I decided to google the statistics of the demographics of the gaming market.
Here's what I found:
1. http://newamericamedia.org/2011/09/gamer-to-game-makers-wheres-the-diversity.php
2. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/female-adults-oust-teenage-boys-largest-gaming-demographic/
The two links above tell me that the majority of gaming consumers are mostly poorer people of color (namely Black & Hispanic) and women. And yet, the games themselves don't reflect that.
Last generation could honestly be referred to as "The Era of the Bald White Male Space Marine", and outside of GTAV & inFAMOUS: Second Son, this new generation isn't off to a very good start in that regard either.
In fact, speaking of GTA, the reception from the last couple of games from that series has been a bit interesting. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Grand Theft Auto: Ballad of Gay Tony, & Grand Theft Auto V are amongst the best critically acclaimed titles in the history of the industry. In San Andreas' and V's case specifically, they rank highly among the best selling games of all time (San Andreas selling 27.5 million copies & V essentially doubling that with 45 million copies sold). All of these games feature minority lead protagonists. However, San Andreas was initially met with criticism upon its reveal for its minority character focus and placement in a 90's-esque gangsta rap era. But each title's success shows that not only are minority-focused are not only a welcome venture, but a profitable one, as the market has proven to support it.
Other games & game series, like Bayonetta, Metroid, Tomb Raider, Beyond: Two Souls, Bloodrayne, The Last of Us, & (*sigh*) Final Fantasy XIII, were all shown to be successful games with female protagonists. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately.
Yet the industry has largely ignored it's minority consumers outside of lip service. Games are still being made with mainly straight White males in mind, under the guise that they make up the majority of the market, and that the market won't support anything else. Yet, as the links above suggest, those are clearly inaccurate assumptions.
The question then becomes, "If the data suggests otherwise, why is the gaming industry so stubbornly focused on pleasing the straight White male demographic?" To answer that, one can make a reasonable assumption that the gaming industry, largely made up of straight White male programmers, artists, writers, producers, animators & executives, doesn't posses the knowledge necessary to properly please its minority consumer base. Personally, I'd take it a step farther: they don't want to.
The projected notion that the majority of the gaming market is White, male, and straight, is exactly that - a projection. The truth is, the majority of games don't represent the market; rather, they represent the people making them. A lot of games prop up White male power fantasies in the way that they are written, designed, and marketed. Any minorities that are placed in the games are usually relegated to stereotypical roles that are portrayed in ways that would be sad, if not funny. For instance, we've all played RPG's that feature female characters in revealing, non-functional armors and clothing, serving as nothing more than eye candy for the player. Or the stereotypical "thug" character that is given no context as to why he exhibits "thug" behavior.
Here's the thing: none of those examples are bad things within their own vacuums. A purely stereotypically-driven character can be well received, if done right. Lord knows I love Cole Train & Sahz. And people can overlook a scantily-clad female character is she makes up for her lack of clothing with everything else about her. The problem comes when nearly EVERY game features characters like this, with little or no effort placed into representing minorities in a positive, influential manner. For ever Lara Croft, there are a hundred more female characters who only serve as sexy damsels-in-distress. For every Cole Train, there are a hundred other jive-talking Black characters that don't even come close to replicating the quality of Cole Train's character.
I'm not sure what has to happen for any of this to change, though. The obvious answer would have to be "hire more minorities in the industry, so that the games themselves will become a more accurate reflection of the market". But as we've seen time and time again, corporate desire > development desire, so for me, the entire industry would have to diversify itself from the top down. More women & people of color in high positions, positions that could greenlight more diverse games to the market. A sans-Gawker gaming press that is more willing to address the issue. And more importantly, we need the straight, White, and male portion of the gaming community to not be so hostile towards everyone different than them. That goes for anything, from online gaming behavior, to shit like GamerGate. I'd be willing to bet that more developers would be more comfortable embracing diverse ideas if there wasn't a chance for those developers to be doxxed because some White dudes on a gaming forum had a problem with them.
Here's what I found:
1. http://newamericamedia.org/2011/09/gamer-to-game-makers-wheres-the-diversity.php
The pixilated elephant in the room of the multi-billion dollar gaming industry: African Americans and Hispanics play and purchase video games more than any other ethnic group in the U.S., yet the overwhelming majority of characters in games are young white males.
...
Good’s assertion, however, that whites constitute the majority of consumers in the gaming industry is inaccurate. According to The Kaiser Family Foundation, African American youth between the ages of 8 and 18 play games 30 minutes more per day than white youth, while Hispanics play an average of 10 minutes more.
Nielsen studied the same cultural groups, with ages ranging from 18 to 49, and also found that African Americans consistently spent more time playing video games than whites. Hispanics, on the other hand, dipped slightly below whites, while Asians -- who make up the second most recognizable ethnicity as video game characters -- showed up fourth.
And while both studies examined home console trends, another report from the Pew Internet & American Life Project showed that even in the area of portable gaming, which given the ubiquity of smart phones and tablets has become the most lucrative arm of the industry, African Americans and Hispanics still outranked whites.
One of the arguments used to justify the lack of diversity across the video game eco-sphere -- its media, marketing efforts and characters – is that gaming is, like lacrosse or tennis, a pastime of the privileged. On the contrary, Reuters reported that low-income families who make less than $35,000 play more games than families who make over $74,000 in a study that also found little difference in their purchasing habits.
2. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/female-adults-oust-teenage-boys-largest-gaming-demographic/
Adult female gamers have unseated boys under the age of 18 as the largest video game-playing demographic in the U.S., according to a recently published study from the Entertainment Software Association, a trade group focused the U.S. gaming industry.
While men still account for the majority of the U.S. gaming population, the number of women playing games on both consoles and mobile devices is up to 48 percent, from 40 percent in 2010.
The spike in the number female gamers is likely tied to widespread smartphone adoption. In addition to traditional PCs and the Nintendo Wii game console, women were more likely to game on their mobile devices, and were just as likely as men to play on Apple’s iPhone and iPad platforms. In the past, female gamers were thought to play games primarily as a means of connecting with their loved ones.
The two links above tell me that the majority of gaming consumers are mostly poorer people of color (namely Black & Hispanic) and women. And yet, the games themselves don't reflect that.
Last generation could honestly be referred to as "The Era of the Bald White Male Space Marine", and outside of GTAV & inFAMOUS: Second Son, this new generation isn't off to a very good start in that regard either.
In fact, speaking of GTA, the reception from the last couple of games from that series has been a bit interesting. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Grand Theft Auto: Ballad of Gay Tony, & Grand Theft Auto V are amongst the best critically acclaimed titles in the history of the industry. In San Andreas' and V's case specifically, they rank highly among the best selling games of all time (San Andreas selling 27.5 million copies & V essentially doubling that with 45 million copies sold). All of these games feature minority lead protagonists. However, San Andreas was initially met with criticism upon its reveal for its minority character focus and placement in a 90's-esque gangsta rap era. But each title's success shows that not only are minority-focused are not only a welcome venture, but a profitable one, as the market has proven to support it.
Other games & game series, like Bayonetta, Metroid, Tomb Raider, Beyond: Two Souls, Bloodrayne, The Last of Us, & (*sigh*) Final Fantasy XIII, were all shown to be successful games with female protagonists. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately.
Yet the industry has largely ignored it's minority consumers outside of lip service. Games are still being made with mainly straight White males in mind, under the guise that they make up the majority of the market, and that the market won't support anything else. Yet, as the links above suggest, those are clearly inaccurate assumptions.
The question then becomes, "If the data suggests otherwise, why is the gaming industry so stubbornly focused on pleasing the straight White male demographic?" To answer that, one can make a reasonable assumption that the gaming industry, largely made up of straight White male programmers, artists, writers, producers, animators & executives, doesn't posses the knowledge necessary to properly please its minority consumer base. Personally, I'd take it a step farther: they don't want to.
The projected notion that the majority of the gaming market is White, male, and straight, is exactly that - a projection. The truth is, the majority of games don't represent the market; rather, they represent the people making them. A lot of games prop up White male power fantasies in the way that they are written, designed, and marketed. Any minorities that are placed in the games are usually relegated to stereotypical roles that are portrayed in ways that would be sad, if not funny. For instance, we've all played RPG's that feature female characters in revealing, non-functional armors and clothing, serving as nothing more than eye candy for the player. Or the stereotypical "thug" character that is given no context as to why he exhibits "thug" behavior.
Here's the thing: none of those examples are bad things within their own vacuums. A purely stereotypically-driven character can be well received, if done right. Lord knows I love Cole Train & Sahz. And people can overlook a scantily-clad female character is she makes up for her lack of clothing with everything else about her. The problem comes when nearly EVERY game features characters like this, with little or no effort placed into representing minorities in a positive, influential manner. For ever Lara Croft, there are a hundred more female characters who only serve as sexy damsels-in-distress. For every Cole Train, there are a hundred other jive-talking Black characters that don't even come close to replicating the quality of Cole Train's character.
I'm not sure what has to happen for any of this to change, though. The obvious answer would have to be "hire more minorities in the industry, so that the games themselves will become a more accurate reflection of the market". But as we've seen time and time again, corporate desire > development desire, so for me, the entire industry would have to diversify itself from the top down. More women & people of color in high positions, positions that could greenlight more diverse games to the market. A sans-Gawker gaming press that is more willing to address the issue. And more importantly, we need the straight, White, and male portion of the gaming community to not be so hostile towards everyone different than them. That goes for anything, from online gaming behavior, to shit like GamerGate. I'd be willing to bet that more developers would be more comfortable embracing diverse ideas if there wasn't a chance for those developers to be doxxed because some White dudes on a gaming forum had a problem with them.
To answer that, one can make a reasonable assumption that the gaming industry, largely made up of straight White male programmers, artists, writers, producers, animators & executives, doesn't posses the knowledge necessary to properly please its minority consumer base. Personally, I'd take it a step farther: they don't want to.
Money quote right here.
These issues are pervasive in damn near every industry you look at. You can correlate a lot of this to other industry and practices that we continue to see. This discussion isn't too far removed from what type of demographic runs the banking industry and how they treat minorities, too. But I digress.
It's been said before, you don't need to be a minority to make a game that revolves around a person of color, just an interest in doing so.
Getting more minorities in the industry will definitely help (shout out to Esco), but what's gonna to be really hard is getting minorities in the position where they have control over a project. In that regard I think until there is a big influx in the industry of minorities, making that desire known to those in power currently is the best bet at change at the moment.
Getting more minorities in the industry will definitely help (shout out to Esco), but what's gonna to be really hard is getting minorities in the position where they have control over a project. In that regard I think until there is a big influx in the industry of minorities, making that desire known to those in power currently is the best bet at change at the moment.
To go along with what reilo quoted, your first sentence talks about how it's poorer people of color. When you combine that with the fact that people don't want to make games for us anyway? Yeah..
It's why even though I want to boycott GTA V since I'm a PC pleb to Rockstar, at the same time they're the only ones doing anything in regards to diversity so I feel like I have to support it. It's also weird how people make excuses about demographics when A) It's not true as pointed out by your research and B) It doesn't have an impact on sales since GTA still breaks records, also pointed out by you.
At the end of the day, a good game is what most people care about and it just boils down to people in power stuck in the 60s where we ain't shit.
It's why even though I want to boycott GTA V since I'm a PC pleb to Rockstar, at the same time they're the only ones doing anything in regards to diversity so I feel like I have to support it. It's also weird how people make excuses about demographics when A) It's not true as pointed out by your research and B) It doesn't have an impact on sales since GTA still breaks records, also pointed out by you.
At the end of the day, a good game is what most people care about and it just boils down to people in power stuck in the 60s where we ain't shit.
Are they counting both black/hispanic as one group compared to white people?
Either way, OP is filled with great stuff.
Either way, OP is filled with great stuff.
The fact that San Andreas not only sold a shit-ton, but is also frequently hailed as the best one (usually between that and Vice City) should have rendered the market argument bullshit, but unfortunately most other devs didn't take notice.
I'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I think giving an option to use a female character should be almost mandatory, tho. I think I would feel weird having to play with a female character, maybe female gamers feel that way towards male protagonists.
I think giving an option to use a female character should be almost mandatory, tho. I think I would feel weird having to play with a female character, maybe female gamers feel that way towards male protagonists.
By ElcheleI'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I won't go out of my way to criticize a game if there's no black characters in them, but you can't tell me you wouldn't be excited with a game that has a predominant hispanic cast of characters that were accurately depicted.
By RBKBy ElcheleI'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I won't go out of my way to criticize a game if there's no black characters in them, but you can't tell me you wouldn't be excited with a game that has a predominant hispanic cast of characters that were accurately depicted.
I would love to see a game set in Buenos Aires, for example. But I really wouldn't care about a game with hispanic characters, I just don't see the appeal or how it would make the game better.
as a kid geek into games and comics two of my favorite mags were EGM and Wizard. man whenever 'behind the scenes' pics went up the lack of color was really driven home.
i don't think things have changed much
i don't think things have changed much
By ElcheleBy RBKBy ElcheleI'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I won't go out of my way to criticize a game if there's no black characters in them, but you can't tell me you wouldn't be excited with a game that has a predominant hispanic cast of characters that were accurately depicted.
I would love to see a game set in Buenos Aires, for example. But I really wouldn't care about a game with hispanic characters, I just don't see the appeal or how it would make the game better.
A good game is a good game regardless of the cast. You connect with it more if there's people of your race with similar characteristics or life experiences as you.
They don't make ethnically diverse movies or TV shows for just no reason.
By RBKBy ElcheleBy RBKBy ElcheleI'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I won't go out of my way to criticize a game if there's no black characters in them, but you can't tell me you wouldn't be excited with a game that has a predominant hispanic cast of characters that were accurately depicted.
I would love to see a game set in Buenos Aires, for example. But I really wouldn't care about a game with hispanic characters, I just don't see the appeal or how it would make the game better.
A good game is a good game regardless of the cast. You connect with it more if there's people of your race with similar characteristics or life experiences as you.
They don't make ethnically diverse movies or TV shows for just no reason.
Dunno. Personally I have no problems relating to white characters. Maybe I'm part of the problem haha.
So, you don't think it's a problem that the games we play, and the people who make them, don't properly represent the people who buy them?
For anyone who didn't know, I work at an indie game company in Japan as a translator/interpreter/producer/design assistant, and it's more diverse here than when I was at Capcom or Nintendo. My impression of the western industry was that it's very vanilla, especially when you get into upper levels and decision makers. There are people out there who want to get in, but a lot is who you know and how well you bullshit. That, unfortunately, is an area where a lot of young cats struggle, especially when the person on the other end is from a very different background.
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
The demographic spread there shows that blacks spend relatively the same amount as whites. If I'm making a game I'm targeting those who have more disposable income. That is fairly well established to be whites. This isn't about time spent playing for the companies making the games, but money earned. Quite a few of the statistics are purely talking about time spent. I wouldn't disregard a market that is of equal size (which some stats here are made to infer they are, so lets assume so), but I'd also like to see a further breakdown of the genre's and their correlation to demographics.
I have no statistical evidence of this, and it's purely supposition and projection on my behest, but bear with me, I wonder if a further breakdown would say that it's more likely for the black demographic to be interested in playing sports games, and it's more likely for someone of a white background to buy a D&D; based RPG. There are obvious exceptions, and it's pure speculation. But without further breakdown available publicly, I have to wonder if game companies have a deeper market break down that supports the above.
The link on the female gaming article goes some way to supporting my theory that companies have these statistics. They certainly have them for the female demo
The genres there that females dominate in tend to be relatively faceless or generic games that do have gender balance built into them. The Sims certainly has a balance. Roller Coaster tycoon tends to be relatively faceless. But games that are male dominated, RPG/Action/Shooters are the ones that tend to have a face applied to them. Is it because most of those games have male faces that they're male dominated, would need more research and data than is shown there.
As an aside, it's interesting to note your main points of reference did leave out one of the most lucrative game markets, sports titles.
That demographic breakdown does have some flaws though. They're predominantly American. It sort of ignores the giant enormous Asian demographics of Japan/China/Korea. It mentions "American Asians" in passing, but I'll go out on a limb and say that in Japan, the Japanese demographic spends a lot more than any minority. Add in that most Asian game devs are targeting their home market first...
It also excludes the European continent almost entirely. Though the racial demographics there are certainly changing fast too. It would be no surprise to see whites in second there vs all other demographics, but a larger cut than any other demographics on their own.
As a game designer I'm not making my decision based on one market, but a global one. That's not to belittle the American market at all, it's massive, without a doubt. But there's other markets to consider too, and the European market has just as many people (actually more).
This is a particularly interesting quote:
Which makes sense, you start out on a project, you make the player models and stuff similar to your self. Why don't they then add in models that reflect other demographics? Do the statistics show that, in general, it's not worth the extra cost? Particularly for certain game genre's. Maybe the smaller dev studios or smaller titles simply can't afford to go back and add in those models. Maybe once the story has been written around the protagonist changing ethnicity or gender becomes very difficult, and you again have to decide if it's cost effective.
It leads to a general question of, well, why aren't there more people in charge that have a more diverse racial background. But it also leads me to question the soundness of the survey (the sample size seemed very small).
The articles don't lead me to many conclusions, but actually raise more questions. Mainly about what detailed consumer data shows in regards to game genre's and the demographics purchasing them. It then raises another question, what if those statistics are skewed because of the bias already in place.
It also leads to another important question, do you want to be the game dev that releases a flop AAA title game that has a black female protagonist? With all the press and shenanigans that go with a AAA title? Or have to deal with all the people/press looking at the game and over analysing it looking for even the tiniest thing to go bat shit insane about and call it racist?
I have no statistical evidence of this, and it's purely supposition and projection on my behest, but bear with me, I wonder if a further breakdown would say that it's more likely for the black demographic to be interested in playing sports games, and it's more likely for someone of a white background to buy a D&D; based RPG. There are obvious exceptions, and it's pure speculation. But without further breakdown available publicly, I have to wonder if game companies have a deeper market break down that supports the above.
The link on the female gaming article goes some way to supporting my theory that companies have these statistics. They certainly have them for the female demo
The genres there that females dominate in tend to be relatively faceless or generic games that do have gender balance built into them. The Sims certainly has a balance. Roller Coaster tycoon tends to be relatively faceless. But games that are male dominated, RPG/Action/Shooters are the ones that tend to have a face applied to them. Is it because most of those games have male faces that they're male dominated, would need more research and data than is shown there.
As an aside, it's interesting to note your main points of reference did leave out one of the most lucrative game markets, sports titles.
That demographic breakdown does have some flaws though. They're predominantly American. It sort of ignores the giant enormous Asian demographics of Japan/China/Korea. It mentions "American Asians" in passing, but I'll go out on a limb and say that in Japan, the Japanese demographic spends a lot more than any minority. Add in that most Asian game devs are targeting their home market first...
It also excludes the European continent almost entirely. Though the racial demographics there are certainly changing fast too. It would be no surprise to see whites in second there vs all other demographics, but a larger cut than any other demographics on their own.
As a game designer I'm not making my decision based on one market, but a global one. That's not to belittle the American market at all, it's massive, without a doubt. But there's other markets to consider too, and the European market has just as many people (actually more).
This is a particularly interesting quote:
Last year’s event featured a panel discussion on diversity in games featuring Williams of USC and a host of other industry insiders. “What population do [the video game characters] reflect,” Williams queried. “The shocking result’s of our survey…is you make games that look like you. So, it’s really just a reflection of the industry.”
Which makes sense, you start out on a project, you make the player models and stuff similar to your self. Why don't they then add in models that reflect other demographics? Do the statistics show that, in general, it's not worth the extra cost? Particularly for certain game genre's. Maybe the smaller dev studios or smaller titles simply can't afford to go back and add in those models. Maybe once the story has been written around the protagonist changing ethnicity or gender becomes very difficult, and you again have to decide if it's cost effective.
It leads to a general question of, well, why aren't there more people in charge that have a more diverse racial background. But it also leads me to question the soundness of the survey (the sample size seemed very small).
The articles don't lead me to many conclusions, but actually raise more questions. Mainly about what detailed consumer data shows in regards to game genre's and the demographics purchasing them. It then raises another question, what if those statistics are skewed because of the bias already in place.
It also leads to another important question, do you want to be the game dev that releases a flop AAA title game that has a black female protagonist? With all the press and shenanigans that go with a AAA title? Or have to deal with all the people/press looking at the game and over analysing it looking for even the tiniest thing to go bat shit insane about and call it racist?
Even I managed to gloss over a large demographic. When including mobiles into gaming demographics, I believe there are a lot of them on the subcontinent (India/Sri Lanka/ Pakistan etc...) that never even get mentioned.
By LaborFor anyone who didn't know, I work at an indie game company in Japan as a translator/interpreter/producer/design assistant, and it's more diverse here than when I was at Capcom or Nintendo. My impression of the western industry was that it's very vanilla, especially when you get into upper levels and decision makers. There are people out there who want to get in, but a lot is who you know and how well you bullshit. That, unfortunately, is an area where a lot of young cats struggle, especially when the person on the other end is from a very different background.
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
Are you referring to gender diversity or racial diversity? I work at Sony Japan Studio and it's got a ton of women, though all the non-Japanese I've seen have been white (most of them Europeans).
By giririsssThe demographic spread there shows that blacks spend relatively the same amount as whites. If I'm making a game I'm targeting those who have more disposable income. That is fairly well established to be whites. This isn't about time spent playing for the companies making the games, but money earned. Quite a few of the statistics are purely talking about time spent. I wouldn't disregard a market that is of equal size (which some stats here are made to infer they are, so lets assume so), but I'd also like to see a further breakdown of the genre's and their correlation to demographics.
Why would you do that when it's shown in the OP that the people who buy & play the most games tend to be the poorest?
By giririsssI have no statistical evidence of this, and it's purely supposition and projection on my behest, but bear with me, I wonder if a further breakdown would say that it's more likely for the black demographic to be interested in playing sports games, and it's more likely for someone of a white background to buy a D&D; based RPG. There are obvious exceptions, and it's pure speculation. But without further breakdown available publicly, I have to wonder if game companies have a deeper market break down that supports the above.
And you know why that is? Because the athletes represented in them are mostly Black. Also, you cannot imply that Blacks wouldn't be more open to a D&D-based; RPG when the industry had never really tried to market to them.
By giririsssAs a game designer I'm not making my decision based on one market, but a global one. That's not to belittle the American market at all, it's massive, without a doubt. But there's other markets to consider too, and the European market has just as many people (actually more).
People of color exist in those countries too, man.
By giririsssThis is a particularly interesting quote:Last year’s event featured a panel discussion on diversity in games featuring Williams of USC and a host of other industry insiders. “What population do [the video game characters] reflect,” Williams queried. “The shocking result’s of our survey…is you make games that look like you. So, it’s really just a reflection of the industry.”
Which makes sense, you start out on a project, you make the player models and stuff similar to your self. Why don't they then add in models that reflect other demographics? Do the statistics show that, in general, it's not worth the extra cost? Particularly for certain game genre's. Maybe the smaller dev studios or smaller titles simply can't afford to go back and add in those models. Maybe once the story has been written around the protagonist changing ethnicity or gender becomes very difficult, and you again have to decide if it's cost effective.
This is literally the Ubisoft "making female characters are hard" defense. C'mon, man.
By giririsssIt also leads to another important question, do you want to be the game dev that releases a flop AAA title game that has a black female protagonist? With all the press and shenanigans that go with a AAA title?
Assassin's Creed Liberation has a Black female protagonist, and from what I remember, that game sold relatively well across two platforms.
If a game flops, it's because it's either a bad game, or the publishers bet the farm on it. It's not due to who's in it.
By giririsssOr have to deal with all the people/press looking at the game and over analysing it looking for even the tiniest thing to go bat shit insane about and call it racist?
#GamerGate, no jujitsu.
The "tiniest things" that the press gets upset about must not be so tiny if they are representative of an industry that had largely underepresented and misrepresented its consumers.
By jWILL253People of color exist in those countries too, man.True but not comparable to the US in the slightest. Italy has a population of about 61 millions. One million are black. Germany has a population of almost 81 million people and only about 800.000 are black.
That said I wouldn't have the slightest problem with videogame characters from different backgrounds/color. On the other hand I never had a problem with the lack of Italian characters either. If a character is Italian he's portrayed as a gangster anyway.
Has anyone else noticed that 2k is the only series where the generic black player models are better than the white ones?
By ElcheleI'm hispanic and I really couldn't care less if the protagonist of the game is black, white or a rainbow.
I think giving an option to use a female character should be almost mandatory, tho. I think I would feel weird having to play with a female character, maybe female gamers feel that way towards male protagonists.
It's rarely questioned until you hit a critical thinking point where you're curious why women can't be the main focal point as anything other than a princess. Growing up a tomboy all of my favorite characters were male.
By OddMorselBy LaborFor anyone who didn't know, I work at an indie game company in Japan as a translator/interpreter/producer/design assistant, and it's more diverse here than when I was at Capcom or Nintendo. My impression of the western industry was that it's very vanilla, especially when you get into upper levels and decision makers. There are people out there who want to get in, but a lot is who you know and how well you bullshit. That, unfortunately, is an area where a lot of young cats struggle, especially when the person on the other end is from a very different background.
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
Are you referring to gender diversity or racial diversity? I work at Sony Japan Studio and it's got a ton of women, though all the non-Japanese I've seen have been white (most of them Europeans).
Both. We're still relatively small so we have the freedom to take more time looking at applications and a wider recruitment net.
By rvyHas anyone else noticed that 2k is the only series where the generic black player models are better than the white ones?
Not at all. Most accurate looking black people for sure.
Speaking of 2K ..
I've heard white friends and even people on forums constantly complain that they don't have many white skins/hairstyles and the myplayer voice is a black dude. I just say welcome to every minority person's world with the other 99% of games out there.
I've heard white friends and even people on forums constantly complain that they don't have many white skins/hairstyles and the myplayer voice is a black dude. I just say welcome to every minority person's world with the other 99% of games out there.
By jWILL253Why would you do that when it's shown in the OP that the people who buy & play the most games tend to be the poorest?
No it doesn't. It shows that they play more, but spend about the same. Those statistics try to INFER what you're saying. But never say it.
And you know why that is? Because the athletes represented in them are mostly Black. Also, you cannot imply that Blacks wouldn't be more open to a D&D-based; RPG when the industry had never really tried to market to them.
So you can imply that they play sports games because of all the black athletes but the inverse is an impossible idea, that JRPGS don't cater to them because they're not a major demo? I'm not saying its definitively true, but these companies tend to have rather invasive statistics on all of us. You can see that from those articles.
That whole idea is sort of the crux of the conundrum. I believe most of the Dragon Age series though has had a fairly open character creation system with wide variety of skin tones. Not sure about this, I'd have to check, but Mass Effect did too I believe. There are titles out there in those genre's where they could get those statistics. The counter argument being that the marketing / default character though were white.
Your assertion isn't with out merit though. I even raised the same one. A chicken and Egg scenario. But these statistics from these articles don't even come close to giving answers.
People of color exist in those countries too, man.(1)
Yes. But I'm aiming to make profits here, as all companies are. So I'm going for the largest markets across the world. The Euro demographics I saw showed very small amounts of non-Caucasian residents. Most immigrant/demographic studies showing inter EU zone immigration was highest, not foreign i.e. Greeks living in France, not Sudanese living in France.
I did struggle to find any that separated the populace by ancestry / skin colour. Maybe you have a better source on that? From what I know the UK has a large burgeoning Indian populace. I was also under the impression of a swell of middle eastern immigration into mainland Europe. But I couldn't find stats that showed (particularly in mainland Europe) any one of those demo's holding a large percentage (most of what I was looking at was mainly mainland Europe, not UK). Most were under 5 or 10%. Which I'm inclined to not believe, but... sort of have to with out evidence to the contrary.
This is literally the Ubisoft "making female characters are hard" defense. C'mon, man.
That is not even close to the point I made.
Assassin's Creed Liberation has a Black female protagonist, and from what I remember, that game sold relatively well across two platforms.(2)
If a game flops, it's because it's either a bad game, or the publishers bet the farm on it. It's not due to who's in it.
Games can be good, but flop. That might not be a problem with the game, but it just didn't sell, which makes it a commercial flop. And there can be a million reasons for it, crowded market place, bad timing etc etc. Those titles will stand out. There will be additional press, rightly or wrongly, centred on them. There is extra pressure to get it right, if it flops hard, there won't be much backing for a sequel.
It could almost certainly open up a new market that a series wasn't appealing to before though. But if they bet wrong...
It's also hard to take a game like Liberation that is part of a long series and has a built up loyal fan base, as a solid indicator of wider acceptance. What it can do though, is make it less of a unicorn if someone starts a new IP with the same style of protagonist. It would also be fascinating and enlightening to see the demo breakdown of people who bought that game, versus the demo's on the old games.
#GamerGate, no jujitsu.The "tiniest things" that the press gets upset about must not be so tiny if they are representative of an industry that had largely underepresented and misrepresented its consumers.
(3)
You sort of had it, then skipped the point.
#GG is a good example though of why a lot of massive game companies don't want to rock the boat. I know of an anime/nerd convention in AU that has been running for about 20 years, but is being torn apart by #GG. You don't want your brand, as a publisher or dev, being part of anything toxic like that. So its partly a case of why put your self in that potential position.
Sections 1, 2 and 3 aren't me making excuses for companies not doing it, or experimenting in it. But pointing out that there are large potential commercial downfalls there. Countering the inference that there's a big pool of money dying to throw their money at them without thought.
By OmegaSpeaking of 2K ..
I've heard white friends and even people on forums constantly complain that they don't have many white skins/hairstyles and the myplayer voice is a black dude. I just say welcome to every minority person's world with the other 99% of games out there.
Hilariously true.
Some things I'd like to draw our attention to whenever the topics of demography in gaming.
-the stats show that minorities are playing more hours of games; this is not to be confused with "buying more games" or even "playing different types of games."
-specific to females, they do not typically play the same types of games as males; Women are not the target demographic for Mortal Kombat X, but they make The Sims break records.
-in this conversation, we refer to these individuals as "gamers," when they may not. Would we include those who exclusively play Bejeweled or Candy Crush Saga "gamers"? Would the developers of Minecraft consider them their target audience?
If black people waited for white people to pave the way for them in entertainment, let alone anything, well, we would still be more invisible than we are now. The answer is like Cosby, Quincy Jones, Martin, Queen Latifah, and the Wayans family in 90's television and film, black people have to start creating their own stuff. More importantly, black people have to support those trying to break through. Are you prepared for the Tyler Perry of video games?
Anecdote:
When I was at Tuskegee (HBCU), I was a nerd gamer with the other nerds who spent the majority of our time locked in our dorm rooms playing games on lan that I would buy or download and install on my friends computers. RTS like WCIII and Age of Empires and stuff. We played anything. There was another tier of guys who focused almost exclusively on fighting games (at least they played in tournaments), and a tier below them who bought PS2s just to play Madden and NBA Live. I always thought that was such a waste of money to buy a system to play the yearly iteration of two sports games. In other words, on a campus of 3,000 black people (where there were literally two white students), maybe 50 of us would identify as "gamers." 10 of them might have been female.
-the stats show that minorities are playing more hours of games; this is not to be confused with "buying more games" or even "playing different types of games."
-specific to females, they do not typically play the same types of games as males; Women are not the target demographic for Mortal Kombat X, but they make The Sims break records.
-in this conversation, we refer to these individuals as "gamers," when they may not. Would we include those who exclusively play Bejeweled or Candy Crush Saga "gamers"? Would the developers of Minecraft consider them their target audience?
If black people waited for white people to pave the way for them in entertainment, let alone anything, well, we would still be more invisible than we are now. The answer is like Cosby, Quincy Jones, Martin, Queen Latifah, and the Wayans family in 90's television and film, black people have to start creating their own stuff. More importantly, black people have to support those trying to break through. Are you prepared for the Tyler Perry of video games?
Anecdote:
When I was at Tuskegee (HBCU), I was a nerd gamer with the other nerds who spent the majority of our time locked in our dorm rooms playing games on lan that I would buy or download and install on my friends computers. RTS like WCIII and Age of Empires and stuff. We played anything. There was another tier of guys who focused almost exclusively on fighting games (at least they played in tournaments), and a tier below them who bought PS2s just to play Madden and NBA Live. I always thought that was such a waste of money to buy a system to play the yearly iteration of two sports games. In other words, on a campus of 3,000 black people (where there were literally two white students), maybe 50 of us would identify as "gamers." 10 of them might have been female.
Anecdote:
When I was at Tuskegee (HBCU), I was a nerd gamer with the other nerds who spent the majority of our time locked in our dorm rooms playing games on lan that I would buy or download and install on my friends computers. RTS like WCIII and Age of Empires and stuff. We played anything. There was another tier of guys who focused almost exclusively on fighting games (at least they played in tournaments), and a tier below them who bought PS2s just to play Madden and NBA Live. I always thought that was such a waste of money to buy a system to play the yearly iteration of two sports games. In other words, on a campus of 3,000 black people (where there were literally two white students), maybe 50 of us would identify as "gamers." 10 of them might have been female.
Less and less people are "gamers" and owning game consoles or playing on your phone is much more the norm now..
By blackaceLess and less people are "gamers" and owning game consoles or playing on your phone is much more the norm now..
nah, but the mobile market is just expanding quicker.
i mean MOBAs are huge and you are def. a "gamer" if you play MOBAs.
consoles do fine in the west too.
I used to think I wanted games with more Asian characters, then Jade Empire came along and I thought, "Dear God, give me more White people, anything but that"
Thankfully Sleeping Dogs was awesome.
Thankfully Sleeping Dogs was awesome.
By DiprosalicBy blackaceLess and less people are "gamers" and owning game consoles or playing on your phone is much more the norm now..
nah, but the mobile market is just expanding quicker.
i mean MOBAs are huge and you are def. a "gamer" if you play MOBAs.
consoles do fine in the west too.
But people call themselves gamers less and less... and just are..
If that makes any sense.
The market for games is wider and larger than ever imo...
By HasphatsAntsI used to think I wanted games with more Asian characters, then Jade Empire came along and I thought, "Dear God, give me more White people, anything but that"
Thankfully Sleeping Dogs was awesome.
There is so much truth to this post. People *really* don't know what they're asking.
I'm unlike that other guy. I find characters like Barrett and COLE TRAIN and the clowns surrounding CJ in GTA:SA insulting.
People keep talking about Lee in TWD, but naw, son! You forget that dude starts off the game serving a term in prison for killing his wife because she was unfaithful. A Professor of History with strong paternal instincts, but still a criminal.
Eddie Gordo and Blade--I mean, Raven in Tekken are well-designed for Japanese characters. Sega was also going in the right direction with Vanessa, but then they gave her the Beyoncé treatment. Same with Jade in MK. Capcom gave us M. Bison (Balrog in the US) who continues to be a caricature, but then went in the opposite direction with Dudley, Sean, and Elena (who is exotic like all the other women).
I'll stop ranting now.
By blackaceBy DiprosalicBy blackaceLess and less people are "gamers" and owning game consoles or playing on your phone is much more the norm now..
nah, but the mobile market is just expanding quicker.
i mean MOBAs are huge and you are def. a "gamer" if you play MOBAs.
consoles do fine in the west too.
But people call themselves gamers less and less... and just are..
If that makes any sense.
The market for games is wider and larger than ever imo...
I agree that "gaming" is something so prevalent that few people call themselves "gamers."
It's complicated. I've been working on an essay concerning this very topic for a year and six months because the terms that I use feel too antiquated (hardcore vs casual) for the current state of the industry but have been unsuccessful in coining approporate terms for the current gaming landscape. What do you call the person who only plays Minecraft on weekends with his kids or that girl who switches between Bayonetta, DotA 2, and Scribblenauts in a week with a new rotation of games next week?
There's so much to pull from as far as diversity of experiences. Where's the dudebro black nerd protagonist? When will we see a reverse Far Cry 3 game? Where's the designerd Puerto Rican protagonist? The possibilities are endless.
I would never state that developers are lazy by not exploring other possibilities or perspectives. They have to sell these games around the world. However, pursuing one audience at the storytelling expense of others is less than ideal for the long-term health of the industry, in my opinion.
I would never state that developers are lazy by not exploring other possibilities or perspectives. They have to sell these games around the world. However, pursuing one audience at the storytelling expense of others is less than ideal for the long-term health of the industry, in my opinion.
By FuryousThere's so much to pull from as far as diversity of experiences. Where's the dudebro black nerd protagonist? When will we see a reverse Far Cry 3 game? Where's the designerd Puerto Rican protagonist? The possibilities are endless.
I would never state that developers are lazy by not exploring other possibilities or perspectives. They have to sell these games around the world. However, pursuing one audience at the storytelling expense of others is less than ideal for the long-term health of the industry, in my opinion.
It's also just bad storytelling in general.
What has driven me away from a lot of media in general is the same cliched shit.
I'm not sure if I can agree that that kind of stuff is bad for the industry. I don't remember as a kid playing Mario to save the Princess, but to play because it was a fun game to play. Same for Sonic. I play to beat the game...to say that I beat it. It's a notch for me. Moving on to the next game. I like to think of myself as an "expert" in video games.
And that's another variable to consider...why people play games at all.
Some people play Castle Crashers because it's a great social game that they would not play otherwise. Some people want a compelling story (there are books for this but w/e). Some people play just to brag that they can do it better than anyone else (multiplayer or online games like DotA).
This variable of motivation weighs a lot for me. Certainly fits the anecdote. I'm no longer in contact with large swaths of exclusively college-aged black people, but I'd be shocked if I visited for Homecoming and they were playing, say, Uncharted, Sunset Overdrive and the occasional CoD and GTA (because everyone plays those) more than sports games.
And that's another variable to consider...why people play games at all.
Some people play Castle Crashers because it's a great social game that they would not play otherwise. Some people want a compelling story (there are books for this but w/e). Some people play just to brag that they can do it better than anyone else (multiplayer or online games like DotA).
This variable of motivation weighs a lot for me. Certainly fits the anecdote. I'm no longer in contact with large swaths of exclusively college-aged black people, but I'd be shocked if I visited for Homecoming and they were playing, say, Uncharted, Sunset Overdrive and the occasional CoD and GTA (because everyone plays those) more than sports games.
To get back on topic, let me ask this question:
How would we fix the lack of diversity in Hollywood?
As much as the comparisons of the game industry to Hollywood makes "gamers" cringe, they suffer from similar ailments.
The answer is addressing racism, sexism, classism, etc *before* we're asking these questions in the entertainment industry. L4D demonstrated (at least to me) that just inserting a black man and black woman in place of white characters and just rolling with it is only NOMINALLY a solution. Those characters felt like the creations of colorblindness and were kinda vapid (besides Coach acting out the trope of the fat guy).
How would we fix the lack of diversity in Hollywood?
As much as the comparisons of the game industry to Hollywood makes "gamers" cringe, they suffer from similar ailments.
The answer is addressing racism, sexism, classism, etc *before* we're asking these questions in the entertainment industry. L4D demonstrated (at least to me) that just inserting a black man and black woman in place of white characters and just rolling with it is only NOMINALLY a solution. Those characters felt like the creations of colorblindness and were kinda vapid (besides Coach acting out the trope of the fat guy).
I loved Jade Empire, but I don't think that's a good example to use.
Never really had issues with Cole Train, Sweet, Ryder, Big Smoke, etc. None were as good as Lamar in GTA V, but I enjoyed their characters.
Never really had issues with Cole Train, Sweet, Ryder, Big Smoke, etc. None were as good as Lamar in GTA V, but I enjoyed their characters.
By Zero ToleranceTo get back on topic, let me ask this question:
How would we fix the lack of diversity in Hollywood?
As much as the comparisons of the game industry to Hollywood makes "gamers" cringe, they suffer from similar ailments.
The answer is addressing racism, sexism, classism, etc *before* we're asking these questions in the entertainment industry. L4D demonstrated (at least to me) that just inserting a black man and black woman in place of white characters and just rolling with it is only NOMINALLY a solution. Those characters felt like the creations of colorblindness and were kinda vapid (besides Coach acting out the trope of the fat guy).
Well you get a chicken and egg scenario a bit with media since media also shapes stereotypes and prejudices. And a lot of people just don't have the exposure to different people through anything but that.
maybe the bar is incredibly low but I even enjoyed Hispanic characters like Garcia Hotspur
the only one i haven't liked is Dom from Gears.
the only one i haven't liked is Dom from Gears.
By LaborFor anyone who didn't know, I work at an indie game company in Japan as a translator/interpreter/producer/design assistant, and it's more diverse here than when I was at Capcom or Nintendo. My impression of the western industry was that it's very vanilla, especially when you get into upper levels and decision makers. There are people out there who want to get in, but a lot is who you know and how well you bullshit. That, unfortunately, is an area where a lot of young cats struggle, especially when the person on the other end is from a very different background.get to work! i need that game out this year!
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
By Omegamaybe the bar is incredibly low but I even enjoyed Hispanic characters like Garcia Hotspur
the only one i haven't liked is Dom from Gears.
The issue with Dom is Epic's weird incentive to make him a 'three dimensional character' or 'someone with a motive' in comparsion to Marcus' killing machine identity. I thought the buildup of Gears 2 and him searching for his wife was great...up until the scene where he had to kill his wife. It was written well, but the sight of that beefy fucker with a bigass gun to his dying wife's head is just hilarious to me. There's no emotion in it.
Then Gears 3 where he goes weird ass farmer that kills himself is even worse.
That isn't to say Gears lacks great hispanic characters. Alicia Valera is pretty damn great.
By Le SilkBy Omegamaybe the bar is incredibly low but I even enjoyed Hispanic characters like Garcia Hotspur
the only one i haven't liked is Dom from Gears.
The issue with Dom is Epic's weird incentive to make him a 'three dimensional character' or 'someone with a motive' in comparsion to Marcus' killing machine identity. I thought the buildup of Gears 2 and him searching for his wife was great...up until the scene where he had to kill his wife. It was written well, but the sight of that beefy fucker with a bigass gun to his dying wife's head is just hilarious to me. There's no emotion in it.
Then Gears 3 where he goes weird ass farmer that kills himself is even worse.
That isn't to say Gears lacks great hispanic characters. Alicia Valera is pretty damn great.
I didn't notice that Alicia was Hispanic. I only played Gears 3 once to beat the campaign though.
(I did not play Judgement)
By LaborFor anyone who didn't know, I work at an indie game company in Japan as a translator/interpreter/producer/design assistant, and it's more diverse here than when I was at Capcom or Nintendo. My impression of the western industry was that it's very vanilla, especially when you get into upper levels and decision makers. There are people out there who want to get in, but a lot is who you know and how well you bullshit. That, unfortunately, is an area where a lot of young cats struggle, especially when the person on the other end is from a very different background.
Things like twitter make it much easier to network now though, and I try to help out anyone who shows interest in getting in (although it's mad unstable). Getting in as a translator is comparatively easy because there aren't as many people with the relevant skill set who are also interested in the industry, but the tech side is always looking for people. I honestly think getting to the point where we have representation that's at least on par with demographics will take a long time as the industry itself is still very exclusionary, but I encourage people to keep battering the gates if they'll really interested.
This is the first role where I've had any significant input into the creative side and it's a lot of fun, and a lot of work due to the scale of the studio. Indies are a great place to build experience and get your hands dirty in a lot of disciplines.
missed this post earlier... what part of Japan are you in??
Japan is a different market all together tho.. the country is still 94 to 96% Japanese and most games are made in that mind frame. That's how things like RE: African Killer get made...