By Smokey Go To Postsounds a bit insensitive, but it is Dray
It's just his jaw's natural motion.
By livefromkyoto Go To PostIt's just his jaw's natural motion.Steven Adams understood that reference.
I guess this is Strauss ESPN farewell piece?
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19256296/golden-state-warriors-steph-curry-stopped-only-kevin-durant
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19256296/golden-state-warriors-steph-curry-stopped-only-kevin-durant
By Dark PhaZe Go To Postoffensive 3 seconds needs to go awayIt would make for a very different style of game. You would see fewer drives to the bucket unless your team has shooters at all five positions.
been saying it
Some people would like that kind of game, some wouldn't.
By Kibner Go To PostIt would make for a very different style of game. You would see fewer drives to the bucket unless your team has shooters at all five positions.
Some people would like that kind of game, some wouldn't.
The problem with the post up game right now with all the smalls flying around is that just making a post up player hesitate for a second with a double puts them in serious danger of offensive 3 seconds.
Eliminating it entirely is probably a bit much but improving it to even 5 seconds would help a lot.
The problem with the post-up game isn't that, it's that the illegal-defense rule was removed. You can do soft doubles now to harass a post-player from doing anything other than passing out to reset the offense.
e: increasing the paint rule to be 5 seconds doesn't address the issue. you will just see more strips and bad shots in the paint by bigs if it was introduced
e: increasing the paint rule to be 5 seconds doesn't address the issue. you will just see more strips and bad shots in the paint by bigs if it was introduced
I love how Bennett showed up to draft night having put on 40 pounds since the end of the college season and still got picked #1.
40 pounds in 3 months is hard.
40 pounds in 3 months is hard.
By Kibner Go To PostThe problem with the post-up game isn't that, it's that the illegal-defense rule was removed. You can do soft doubles now to harass a post-player from doing anything other than passing out to reset the offense.
e: increasing the paint rule to be 5 seconds doesn't address the issue. you will just see more strips and bad shots in the paint by bigs if it was introduced
No. The problem is that they can't work to get deep post position before they get called for 3 seconds. If guys were able to get deeper positions in the post when they get the ball it would be more difficult to bring help and get back to a shooter.
By Kibner Go To PostThe problem with the post-up game isn't that, it's that the illegal-defense rule was removed. You can do soft doubles now to harass a post-player from doing anything other than passing out to reset the offense.
e: increasing the paint rule to be 5 seconds doesn't address the issue. you will just see more strips and bad shots in the paint by bigs if it was introduced
Defensive 3 should be stricken from the records as though it was never a thing anyway
By domino Go To PostI guess this is Strauss ESPN farewell piece?
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19256296/golden-state-warriors-steph-curry-stopped-only-kevin-durant
Curry gonna be Curry regardless. This article doesn't seem very expository, which is weird from Strauss. Time will tell, I suppose.
By Fenderputty Go To PostDefensive 3 should be stricken from the records as though it was never a thing anywaySeriously lol. Certaing bigs abuse that shit and never get called for it like they're visiting Mt Zion for a weekend.
By reilo Go To PostSeriously lol. Certaing bigs abuse that shit and never get called for it like they're visiting Mt Zion for a weekend.
Modern NBA offenses spread the floor enough it shouldn't detract from the "we need lots of monstrous dunks" entertainment value as well.
I'm ok with both offensive and defensive 3.
They're not called every time, but they're applied well enough.
If you changed them, or removed them, you would have to change a lot of others / put in new ones.
They're not called every time, but they're applied well enough.
If you changed them, or removed them, you would have to change a lot of others / put in new ones.
By Fenderputty Go To PostModern NBA offenses spread the floor enough it shouldn't detract from the "we need lots of monstrous dunks" entertainment value as well.Sure it would. It would also be very bad for post play. What's left of it.
By giririsss Go To PostIf you changed them, or removed them, you would have to change a lot of others / put in new ones.
What other things would need changing? Why?
By giririsss Go To PostSure it would. It would also be very bad for post play. What's left of it.
That's why we removed the offensive 3 as well.
By Fenderputty Go To PostWhat other things would need changing? Why?Removing both doesn't help post play.
That's why we removed the offensive 3 as well.
So now the soft double can just stand right next yo you? In the paint. Blocking one direction for your move? Effectively killing any post move that doesn't happen within .5 of a second of catching the ball.
At the moment if they double you in the paint, it has to be a hard double, you have to commit to guarding someone. Which leaves one person open.
I wouldn't remove either. Not with out a structured plan. Because removing both and leaving the illegal defense changes alter little, but allow people to potentially clog the lane a little more.
If you wanted to increase post play, or reward it more, you would have to specifically target that, not the whole lane.
A big, BIG change would be making it so that if post position is established, the offensive player can not be called for a charge. Same 3 seconds. But if you're not strong enough to guard me, or i get a mismatch onto a wing, I don't have to be punished for being stronger/bigger.
If a soft double wants to sit in the paint to guard the post, let them. The team will get burned by the opposite end three pass. You can do a successful soft double currently because the post player has to leave the paint after the defense successfully flashes. If the post player can park his ass in the paint the defense now has to commit to one or the other.
By Fenderputty Go To PostIf a soft double wants to sit in the paint to guard the post, let them. The team will get burned by the opposite end three pass. You can do a successful soft double currently because the post player has to leave the paint after the defense successfully flashes. If the post player can park his ass in the paint the defense now has to commit to one or the other.
That's what soft double stops, versus a hard double. The soft double allows you to cut off the pass, but be in immediate position for the shot attempt. It would nullify the post.
By giririsss Go To PostThat's what soft double stops, versus a hard double. The soft double allows you to cut off the pass, but be in immediate position for the shot attempt. It would nullify the post.
Right ... but a soft double's success hinges upon that post player getting out. If the post player doesn't leave the paint the soft double would have to commit one way or the other after the initial flash.
By Fenderputty Go To PostRight … but a soft double's success hinges upon that post player getting out. If the post player doesn't leave the paint the soft double would have to commit one way or the other after the initial flash.
A flash isn't a soft double. The point of a Flash is to disrupt the post player and put them in a disadvantageous position. Hopefully forcing them to even pick up their dribble. Which will either cause a turn over, or force them out of the post / area.
It's only a flash now, because it comes from the wing / top of the key from the open side of the post player.
A soft double is basically a 2 on 1 zone. It denies the passing lane, but is very close, 1 or 2 steps away, and denies you an entire zone with which to score in, or you have to score over 2 people challenging your shot. It also means the primary defender can hedge the other way that the soft double isn't. Making going either way more difficult (and passing either way, more difficult).
You've essentially created a permanent 2 on 1 zone for any low post player.
This is the scenario:
So if you're the offensive player in the post, and you've setup in the low right post (right, looking at the basket) just on the key line. I'm the primary defender. My secondary defender, is going to setup in the paint, near the hoop. Denying you any pass to his guy, and denying you going right, or he'll be right there to block it. I'm going to then hedge left, denying you the ability to go left, or pass along the base line.
So you've got 3 options, force a fade away, pass out, or force a highly contested shot that you won't have proper position or angle to shoot.
This essentially happens now, but you're 1 or 2 steps further away, not IN the lane. On the other side. And that space is important. Marc uses that space to get his 2 steps in and raise his arm into his running hook, get balanced, and aim.
Getting rid of offensive / defensive 3 second rules won't help post play. Certainly not getting rid of both. Getting rid of both will basically doom it, while keeping the current illegal offense rule.
By DY_nasty Go To PostA flash ain't a soft double?
pls
This is what I'm thinking. A flasher camping two feet away is essentially a double if the offense swings the ball. Bonus points if the big can pass out of the post and camping two feet away didn't close off the post passing lane (it wouldn't if the post player can camp and fight for forward position)
Picture D12 with the ability to park his ass two feet from the rim the whole play. Tell me that doesn't change the dynamic of this "soft double". Fuck ... Okafor might actually become trade bait in such a scenario.
By Fenderputty Go To PostThis is what I'm thinking. A flasher camping two feet away is essentially a double if the offense swings the ball. Bonus points if the big can pass out of the post and camping two feet away didn't close off the post passing lane (it wouldn't if the post player can camp and fight for forward position)A soft double takes a LOT of forms. Hedging is even a soft double. Ice, digs, etc - all fulfill that purpose in a way
By DY_nasty Go To PostA flash ain't a soft double?
pls
In the loosest sense it is, but it's easy to distinguish from the sort of soft double i was talking about, by just referring to it as it's known name, a flash.
Getting caught up in that, sort of derails the whole conversation.
By Fenderputty Go To PostPicture D12 with the ability to park his ass two feet from the rim the whole play. Tell me that doesn't change the dynamic of this "soft double". Fuck … Okafor might actually become trade bait in such a scenario.Dwight sucks at getting post position cause he skips leg day. It's why he's pretty bad / average in the post. And this scenario really only works for about 3 seconds because you're not going to stay open for 10.
I mean, you still do have a defender. And you now have as many defenders as they want to pack in the paint / zone for it, for as long as they want.
But if you're bullying me down there, i just fall over and bait the foul. Particularly if i'm a guard. It's the worst thing in the world to see a guard defending zach randolph in the post, and zach get called for a charge or offensive foul.
Post play has existed since the beginning of basketball. Until recently, and at every stage of the game, post play has not been negatively effected by allowing defensive three. Defensive three was added to stop driving lanes from clogging after zones were allowed because we gotta have them dunks. So how is allowing defensive three again, but also allowing offensive three not a net positive for the big? The only way you could think this is if you blame modern post play on defensive three itself. Which seems silly to me. Post play has been sacrificed to open up lanes for drives and kicks to the three point line. The need for added spacing has put pressure on teams to favor bigs who can shoot instead of back to the basket talent.
By pilonv1 Go To Post
Good times, good times
I was in the second to last row in the upper deck for game 3.
Insanely loud.
By Fenderputty Go To PostPost play has existed since the beginning of basketball. Until recently, and at every stage of the game, post play has not been negatively effected by allowing defensive three. Defensive three was added to stop driving lanes from clogging after zones were allowed because we gotta have them dunks. So how is allowing defensive three again, but also allowing offensive three not a net positive for the big? The only way you could think this is if you blame modern post play on defensive three itself. Which seems silly to me. Post play has been sacrificed to open up lanes for drives and kicks to the three point line. The need for added spacing has put pressure on teams to favor bigs who can shoot instead of back to the basket talent.Defensive 3 was put in to stop the paint being clogged. Not lanes.
The illegal defense change, allowing zones, would have negatively impacted both things, with out the 3second rule too. It's not an either or. It was both.
In the previous era you either the space was created by not allowing zones. Now it's by forcing people to not camp in the paint.
If you're Al Horford and you catch the ball within 5 ft of the rim, you cannot make a cute pass to Amir Johnson.
By Kuma Go To PostWe had Green in the starting 5. KO comes off the bench
My bad. Either way, spreading the floor seems more important in the East than so so rim protection and rebounding.
8 turnovers in a quarter and the Wiz are shooting like 70%. And somehow this doesn't feel that lopsided.
By pilonv1 Go To PostAlways douchey
Good times, good times
