2017 NBA Playoffs | James & The Giant Piece of Shit Conference

Tanking actually worked for some of yal and you still can't appreciate it

scust

By DY_nasty Go To PostTanking actually worked for some of yal and you still can't appreciate it

scust

Pels moved up from sixth to get Davis. They didn't bottom out like some here want to do.

Who's "y'all"?

Last seven championships: Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs, Heat, Heat, Mavericks, Lakers

Spurs and Cavaliers are the only ones that deliberately tanked to be who they are 20 and 14 years ago. Cavaliers got Kyrie through a Baron Davis trade (lol Clippers) and got back into contention cause Lebron wanted to go home. Heat built themselves through FA. Mavericks won off the back of the greatest European player ever, who was the 9th pick and a project pick twenty years ago. Lakers built themselves into contention with Kobe Bryant (13th pick 20 years ago) sacrificing virgins at the alter of David Stern.

By Kibner Go To PostPels moved up from sixth to get Davis. They didn't bottom out like some here want to do.

You put yourself in the high lotto area to potentially land a franchise player. Pels, Wolves, Raptors, etc all got one. Pels and Wolves got plenty in bunches. Tanking worked fine there, its everything else in the organization that sucked.

Compared to how hard it is to build a team around "doing your best", its an entirely different atmosphere. Teams like Atlanta and Charlotte gotta go out and play perfect basketball to stay on the court, teams with those gems can shit the bed and still get 50 from their tanking prize.

By knux-future Go To Postas an expert let me tell you

tanking is not a good time

I am interested in Philly's draft because I actually think you guys are officially done and will take monk and have a young squad. Especially if the Waiters and Monk rumors turn out true

Embiid
Saric
Simmons
Waiters
Covington

Bench
Monk

That team is gonna bunch of cocky shit talkers. They probably wont make the playoffs but they got a puncher chance

By reilo Go To PostAlso, don't forget…

Curry: 7th pick
Klay: 11th pick
Draymond: 35th pick
Harrison Barnes: 7th pick
Iggy: 9th pick

Aren't most championship teams (except the spurs) mostly made up of top 10 picks? Also to the Spurs credit they are number #1 in money spent on scouting for years so finding hidden gems should be expected.

By reilo Go To PostWho's "y'all"?

Last seven championships: Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs, Heat, Heat, Mavericks, Lakers

Spurs and Cavaliers are the only ones that deliberately tanked to be who they are 20 and 14 years ago. Cavaliers got Kyrie through a Baron Davis trade (lol Clippers) and got back into contention cause Lebron wanted to go home. Heat built themselves through FA. Mavericks won off the back of the greatest European player ever, who was the 9th pick and a project pick twenty years ago. Lakers built themselves into contention with Kobe Bryant (13th pick 20 years ago) sacrificing virgins at the alter of David Stern.

Can't judge it by rings. Free agency is it's own constantly changing landscape and that has as much to do with anything - but you don't draw or retain talent without a drafted center piece.

Ppl that move the needle don't sign up to play with Robin Lopez

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostAren't most championship teams (except the spurs) mostly made up of top 10 picks? Also to the Spurs credit they are number #1 in money spent on scouting for years so finding hidden gems should be expected.

Only Curry and Harrison Barnes were drafted by the Warriors in the Top 10 (both 7th picks). Bogut, Iggy and Durant were all acquired via draft or FA. Green was the 35th pick. Klay the 11th pick.

Cavaliers drafted Lebron re-acquired him via FA. Kyrie and Love were both acquired via trades (Wiggins was a #1 pick though) since Kyrie was drafted using the Clippers pick.

By reilo Go To PostAlso, don't forget…

Curry: 7th pick
Klay: 11th pick
Draymond: 35th pick
Harrison Barnes: 7th pick
Iggy: 9th pick

And you could go through a lot of teams still in the playoffs and find a lineup similarly not built off the top 3 or even top 5 in the draft.

And I really don't believe it's just scouting well or getting lucky. It's investment in training facilities, coaching staff - like, if your hyper dedicated big wants to get in the gym and work on his footwork at 10pm on a Tuesday night, do you have a competent assistant willing and available to get in there with him? How many tracking cameras have you got set up in your arena, and how many video guys do you have? Because editing film takes a ton of man hours. That stuff matters.

I also think the d-league is really overlooked, though this is finally changing. It's crazy to me that there are team that still have no affiliate, so if they send a guy down to rehab or develop they don't have any direct say in what goes on with him. Dudes are just rotting on benches while other franchises have their guys getting to run their plays X amount of times before they get back on an NBA court.

Things like that are the difference between a franchise that keeps getting productive players with the 25th pick and the ones who throw their hands up and say "hey, can't be helped. Maybe we'll get lucky and Mike Miller will get waived."

By DY_nasty Go To PostCan't judge it by rings. Free agency is it's own constantly changing landscape and that has as much to do with anything - but you don't draw or retain talent without a drafted center piece.

Ppl that move the needle don't sign up to play with Robin Lopez

You don't but they don't need to be a #1 pick, is the point. They just gotta be fucking good and those players exist in the Top 10. Hell, Top 15.

chips aren't the only metric--teams put themselves into a position to chip when they acquire certain players but then fuck everything else up after that

getting one or two guys puts you in the position to make other moves--the thunder did everything right until they didn't for example, management can and does get in the way--the wiz decline a trade for beal for harden-- a team with a younger trevor ariza and nene on it

gm's and owners have been having chaos level butterfly effects on their franchises that spin off into 50 seasons without 50 wins

By reilo Go To PostYou don't but they don't need to be a #1 pick, is the point. They just gotta be fucking good and those players exist in the Top 10. Hell, Top 15.

Not the exponential decrease in quality from top 3 to top 5 to top 10 etc

That's why trying hard sucks. If you ain't good enough, don't even sign established vets. Play that trash d-league kid til you KNOW he's washed.

By reilo Go To PostOnly Curry and Harrison Barnes were drafted by the Warriors in the Top 10 (both 7th picks). Bogut, Iggy and Durant were all acquired via draft or FA. Green was the 35th pick. Klay the 11th pick.

Cavaliers drafted Lebron re-acquired him via FA. Kyrie and Love were both acquired via trades (Wiggins was a #1 pick though) since Kyrie was drafted using the Clippers pick.

Not drafted by a particular team. Just that Championship teams (even contenders) tend to be made up mostly of people who were drafted high. Like the talent level that got them drafted high is also why they are likely good enough to be a champion later regardless of team they are on. Like I always wondered would a better strategy for a tanking be to hedge their bets on youth and try and trade for young players who were drafted high but not immediately showing their talent level.

Like teams tend to bottom out by grabbing some scrubs. Instead trade non essential assets (picks and youth) to see if they get a top 10 bust playing time and support they could fix themselves. Like MCW is obviously a scrub, but there is talent in there somewhere...... deep..... very deep. That could potentially come out and if your tanking why not kick the tires on high draft picks.

I think it's easier to jump from a 45-50 win team into a true contender than say, a 30-35 win team. That's the true "no man's land" that I think teams want to avoid (see: Knicks, New York and Pelicans, New Orleans) and what a badly run franchise looks like. Unless you're of course the Clippers and hire Doc Rivers as your GM and coach.

yall should go to the offseason thread, this thread should be about how a team is going lose a game to Austin Rivers.

By DY_nasty Go To PostCan't judge it by rings. Free agency is it's own constantly changing landscape and that has as much to do with anything - but you don't draw or retain talent without a drafted center piece.

Ppl that move the needle don't sign up to play with Robin Lopez

Let's look at each team's centrepiece.

EAST

1. Celtics - Thomas (60th pick)
2. Cavaliers - James (1st)
3. Raptors - DeRozan (9th)
4. Wizards - Wall (1st)
5. Hawks - Millsap (47th)
6. Bucks - Giannis (15th)
7. Pacers - George (10th)
8. Bulls - Butler (30th)

WEST

1. Warriors - Curry (7th)
2. Spurs - Leonard (15th)
3. Rockets - Harden (3rd)
4. Clippers - Paul (1st)
5. Jazz - Gobert (27th) or if you want to go Hayward (9th)
6. Thunder - Westbrook (4th)
7. Grizzlies - Conley (4th) or Gasol (48th)
8. Trailblazers - Lillard (6th)

I listed two guys for the Jazz & Grizz who don't have a clear cut alpha (though I think you can make the case for Gobert). Looking at this, almost none of these guys are the result of hardcore tanking (top 5 pick). In fact less of them were taken in the top 5 (6) than out of the lotto (7).

I'm sure that overall more lotto picks pan out than non-lotto, but it's clear you don't have to be missing the playoffs or throwing every game to find a star.

By reilo Go To PostI think it's easier to jump from a 45-50 win team into a true contender than say, a 30-35 win team. That's the true "no man's land" that I think teams want to avoid (see: Knicks, New York and Pelicans, New Orleans) and what a badly run franchise looks like. Unless you're of course the Clippers and hire Doc Rivers as your GM and coach.

Not even trying to defend the knicks wouldn't the worse thing be to have a AD situation where he is a stud but they have nothing to build around him because of bad pick management. Pick 6 for Jrue, another pick 6 for Cousins..... keep in mind none of those picks or trades screamed "building around AD". Knicks could very well turn into that but I think they are going the tanking route after trading Melo.

Also I disagree with you about 45 - 50 team to true contender. At least at the moment.... Warriors broke the god damn game after Lebron broke it a few years ago. I was surprised Silver didn't stall negotiations for some sort of Franchise tag for teams during this current CBA negotiations.

How many franchises went from bottom to winner in a single season turnaround? Cavaliers after Lebron came back, Spurs twenty years ago, and Boston in 2008? Everyone else at least was winning games at an above .500 clip before they added a piece or two or a coaching change to get the best out of what they had.

Stop eating at Subway, Gordon, jesus christ.

i heard it was Alberto's mexican

By diehard Go To Posti heard it was Alberto's mexican

But Alberto's is actually good....

Now I'm so conflicted on that restaurant. I like them, but they poisoned G-TIME :(

Cool article about Green and GSW's defense: http://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/25/15420756/draymond-green-defense-breakdown-nba-warriors-blazers

The Twitter buzz is that Hayward got poisoned at Zupas >:(

I like Zupas too... Their crab paninis are good.

By diehard Go To Posti heard it was Alberto's mexican

Eat Mexican food in Utah brehs

There is good Mexican food in Utah >:(

And I have eaten a lot of Mexican food in Nevada and California so I can compare.

But it wasn't Mexican it was one of those new age restaurants (one that is pretty good and sells paninis and Kale salads, but apparently poisoned him :( )

By Smokey Go To PostEat Mexican food in Utah brehs

Yeah, i do it all the time.

By diehard Go To PostYeah, i do it all the time.

So Hayward just hasn't built up his immunity yet?

Oh my fucking god, how is the man who eats ketchup and sushi talking shit right now.

Go and eat mustard and Parmesan cheese, Psy.

fuk

Mustard is disgusting.

Have you tried it on sushi yet?

By diehard Go To Postyall should go to the offseason thread, this thread should be about how a team is going lose a game to Austin Rivers.

You're right, let's talk about teams that are still in this.



Incidentally, Ujiri traded Grievis Vasquez to Milwaukee on draft night for 47th pick Norman Powell...and a first, which was sent to Orlando with Ross for Ibaka. (Vasquez was out of the league 26 games later).

I'm telling you guys, you don't need to tank. You just need to make trades with GMs who don't know what they're doing.

By livefromkyoto Go To PostI'm telling you guys, you don't need to tank. You just need to make trades with GMs who don't know what they're doing.

Portland got a 1st round pick with Nurkic and avoided paying Plumlee a max contract.

The potential for front office fukkery is high with Phil in NY, along with Magic and Doc in LA.

If the Lakers lose their pick all bets are off.

Word on the street is that a certain GM in OKC is prone to trading away MVP candidates for Kevin Martin. Even willing to take on and even maxing your disappointing lotto picks.

Kevin Martin is not Kenyon Martin also

Seriously, if you're a GM, what does your speed dial list look like?

Sacramento - Even if Vlade says no, I call him right back after he hangs up just to see if his owner flaked yet.
NY - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Phil, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"
Lakers - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Magic, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"
Charlotte - Gave $50 million to the 2.6 ppg Plumlee brother instead of the good one by mistake? Cho will take that off your hands.
Orlando - You just know they're going to hire someone dumb again.
Minnesota - Just so I can make Thibs an awesome offer that he'll refuse and get embarrassed.
Phoenix - Because they have a bunch of decent/could be decent players whose value is artificially depressed from all the losing.

NY - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Phil, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"
Lakers - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Magic, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"

😂

so chris paul about to lose in the first round right

By Dark PhaZe Go To Postso chris paul about to lose in the first round right

Austin Rivers will save them.

By Kibner Go To PostAustin Rivers will save them.

12 minute cap.

But replacing 12 minutes of Pierce with 12 minutes of Rivers will help them, sure.

good thing they moved the MVP thing to the offseason or we would have a weird Nowitzki situation again.

By DY_nasty Go To PostNot the exponential decrease in quality from top 3 to top 5 to top 10 etc

That's why trying hard sucks. If you ain't good enough, don't even sign established vets. Play that trash d-league kid til you KNOW he's washed.

Hard to develop certain ball players within a culture of losing.

Losing as the 6 seed to the 3 seed (while Westbrook has arguably outplayed Harden) is a bit different than the 1 losing to the 8.

This series has further highlighted the two biggest reasons that Westbrook will win: Harden has more help and he is also fucking horrible to watch.

It can be argued that Westbrook's 4th quarter of game 2 was uglier than Tony Snell

By livefromkyoto Go To PostSeriously, if you're a GM, what does your speed dial list look like?

Sacramento - Even if Vlade says no, I call him right back after he hangs up just to see if his owner flaked yet.
NY - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Phil, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"
Lakers - "Let me send you the numbers from his 2013 playoff run. I'm telling you Magic, you're gonna LOVE this guy!"
Charlotte - Gave $50 million to the 2.6 ppg Plumlee brother instead of the good one by mistake? Cho will take that off your hands.
Orlando - You just know they're going to hire someone dumb again.
Minnesota - Just so I can make Thibs an awesome offer that he'll refuse and get embarrassed.
Phoenix - Because they have a bunch of decent/could be decent players whose value is artificially depressed from all the losing.

Phoenix has been winning its trades though for a while and has a young star in Booker they traded at 13. Even then being this bad is gonna work in their favor if they come away with one of Fultz, Jackson, and Ball.

If there is a team I could see trading that pick it's minny. They got youth, they need to win..... 6 seems to be slotted as more of the same. I could see them moving back to the mid draft full of the PF they are looking for.

Orlando's interim GM was the guy who was in charge of scouting so I think they are focused on the draft (Tatum... maybe Monk)

Real talk if I am a GM I'm calling Portland and Indiana and seeing what's on the table.

It was bad, I agree.

Harden shit the bed for an entire game though.

By Zeus Ex Machina Go To PostPhoenix has been winning its trades though for a while and has a young star in Booker they traded at 13. Even then being this bad is gonna work in their favor if they come away with one of Fultz, Jackson, and Ball.

It's not that I think Phoenix is run by fools, it's that the market value is artificially low for some of their guys. If Tucker was contributing on a playoff team like Memphis or something he would have gone for more than 2 second rounders in the 50s. I'm sure Bledsoe could be had cheap too. I also kind of wonder if Brandon Knight could be a better player in the right situation.

By KingGondo Go To PostLosing as the 6 seed to the 3 seed (while Westbrook has arguably outplayed Harden) is a bit different than the 1 losing to the 8.

This series has further highlighted the two biggest reasons that Westbrook will win: Harden has more help and he is also fucking horrible to watch.

Congrats on a trophy...And a first round exit I guess?

🎊🎉

By livefromkyoto Go To PostIt's not that I think Phoenix is run by fools, it's that the market value is artificially low for some of their guys. If Tucker was contributing on a playoff team like Memphis or something he would have gone for more than 2 second rounders in the 50s. I'm sure Bledsoe could be had cheap too. I also kind of wonder if Brandon Knight could be a better player in the right situation.

Knight is a walking L.

That is his fate.

By Smokey Go To PostCongrats on a trophy…And a first round exit I guess?

🎊🎉

Lol. Like you guys are winning shit.